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Yak scores 4 but we got Saha.


Memmaclub

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Out of curiosity, why?

 

For me a fan is a fan, doesnt matter if they never set foot in Goodison or live there, theyre entitled to their opinion.

 

Are they entitled to attempt to influence others?

 

You live overseas yourself Matt, so your opinion is unsurprising. If I watch the New York Yankees, and discuss the game on the forum with Yankee fans,m that's cool, but do you think it would be right if I started to demand the board step down, or the manager be sacked?

 

That's my point. Only money paying fans, who regularly attend matches, should have the right to question the board. Fans are fans, but not all fans are actively involved with the club.

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Are they entitled to attempt to influence others?

 

You live overseas yourself Matt, so your opinion is unsurprising. If I watch the New York Yankees, and discuss the game on the forum with Yankee fans,m that's cool, but do you think it would be right if I started to demand the board step down, or the manager be sacked?

 

That's my point. Only money paying fans, who regularly attend matches, should have the right to question the board. Fans are fans, but not all fans are actively involved with the club.

I think you'd be well within your rights to air you concerns, frustrations and want of change on the forums. In my opinion its part of the reasons forums exist!

 

I believe people have the right to air frustrations about the club that they love regardless of location or money put into the club.

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I think you'd be well within your rights to air you concerns, frustrations and want of change on the forums. In my opinion its part of the reasons forums exist!

 

I believe people have the right to air frustrations about the club that they love regardless of location or money put into the club.

 

I don't think we'll agree on this one Matt, so probably best to shake hands and agree to disagree.

 

For me, all fans love talking about the game, but it's ridiculous to categorize all fans as the same. If I don't shop in Tescos, what right do I have to demand the manager be sacked? If I do shop there, I at least have a right to voice concern. I just think most of the discontent, comes from the fans who don't shop at Everton (so to speak).

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I don't think we'll agree on this one Matt, so probably best to shake hands and agree to disagree.

 

For me, all fans love talking about the game, but it's ridiculous to categorize all fans as the same. If I don't shop in Tescos, what right do I have to demand the manager be sacked? If I do shop there, I at least have a right to voice concern. I just think most of the discontent, comes from the fans who don't shop at Everton (so to speak).

fair enough then.
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I don't think we'll agree on this one Matt, so probably best to shake hands and agree to disagree.

 

For me, all fans love talking about the game, but it's ridiculous to categorize all fans as the same. If I don't shop in Tescos, what right do I have to demand the manager be sacked? If I do shop there, I at least have a right to voice concern. I just think most of the discontent, comes from the fans who don't shop at Everton (so to speak).

what do you think of someone like me then? my family on my mums side can go right back to the days of St Domingo's, i used to go to most of the matches when i lived in Liverpool but i live down south now, so its very difficult for me to go these days? should i still have an opinion? EFC have had a shitload of my £££ over the last 15 years or so.
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Going the match isn't the only way fans can put money into the club. You might have an Everton who has never been to a game but buys all three shirts every season, gets a name and number on the back of each of those shirts, buys a training top every season, buys a few items in the casual clothing range whenever a new range is released, buy Christmas presents from the Everton online store for their family.

 

They may not be putting money into the club through buying a ticket to a few games a season or a season ticket every season, but they're putting into the club in other ways.

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what do you think of someone like me then? my family on my mums side can go right back to the days of St Domingo's, i used to go to most of the matches when i lived in Liverpool but i live down south now, so its very difficult for me to go these days? should i still have an opinion? EFC have had a shitload of my £££ over the last 15 years or so.

 

Taken from above.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have problems with fans who used to go, but don't any more, but surely those fans should take a back seat now, where the complaining is concerned? I wouldn't dream of telling Kenwright or Moyes what to do, unless I could do it across the ground. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

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Going the match isn't the only way fans can put money into the club. You might have an Everton who has never been to a game but buys all three shirts every season, gets a name and number on the back of each of those shirts, buys a training top every season, buys a few items in the casual clothing range whenever a new range is released, buy Christmas presents from the Everton online store for their family.

 

They may not be putting money into the club through buying a ticket to a few games a season or a season ticket every season, but they're putting into the club in other ways.

 

Romey, do you think a guy on the Internet, starting a hate campaign, in an attempt to get Moyes sacked, can justify that action just because he bought a shirt and an Everton cup off Ebay?

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Romey, do you think a guy on the Internet, starting a hate campaign, in an attempt to get Moyes sacked, can justify that action just because he bought a shirt and an Everton cup off Ebay?

 

 

No one's starting a hate campaign though, they're just airing their opinions and thoughts and feelings on something they care about.

 

And if it is a hate campaign, are you saying it's ok for it to be started by fans who go the games but not by the people who don't?

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How does...

 

"...buys all three shirts every season, gets a name and number on the back of each of those shirts, buys a training top every season, buys a few items in the casual clothing range whenever a new range is released, buy Christmas presents from the Everton online store for their family."

 

become...

 

"..bought a shirt and an Everton cup off Ebay."

 

huh.png?.

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No one's starting a hate campaign though, they're just airing their opinions and thoughts and feelings on something they care about.

 

And if it is a hate campaign, are you saying it's ok for it to be started by fans who go the games but not by the people who don't?

 

I don't like hate mongers at all Romey, or at least their actions, but if a guy tells me "I think it's time Moyes went" I'll ask him why, and gladly discuss it. THAT for me, is what a forum is for. If the said guy were to start a thread entitled "Sack Moyes" or walk in a march with a banner stating "Moyes Out", or constantly criticise the guy on a forum in the hope he could influence others, I'd ask him if he was a match going fan. If his answer was yes, I would respect his opinion, even if I didn't like it. If his answer was No", I'd tell him he was out of order, and suggest he stop spreading negativity.

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How does...

 

"...buys all three shirts every season, gets a name and number on the back of each of those shirts, buys a training top every season, buys a few items in the casual clothing range whenever a new range is released, buy Christmas presents from the Everton online store for their family."

 

become...

 

"..bought a shirt and an Everton cup off Ebay."

 

huh.png?.

 

Exactly, I manage to only go maybe twice a season at most, but I listern/follow on Internet streams/forums/official site, any possible way on match day I'll follow them someway, I also buy a shirt every season without fail, plus various other merchandising, so I slightly resent any notion that I'm am less a fan than someone who is a season ticket holder. What about people who simply can't afford to buy season tickets does that mean their opinion doesn't count?

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I don't like hate mongers at all Romey, or at least their actions, but if a guy tells me "I think it's time Moyes went" I'll ask him why, and gladly discuss it. THAT for me, is what a forum is for. If the said guy were to start a thread entitled "Sack Moyes" or walk in a march with a banner stating "Moyes Out", or constantly criticise the guy on a forum in the hope he could influence others, I'd ask him if he was a match going fan. If his answer was yes, I would respect his opinion, even if I didn't like it. If his answer was No", I'd tell him he was out of order, and suggest he stop spreading negativity.

 

 

I can't speak for any one else, but I go the games and I've been very critical of Moyes (this season in particular) but I don't feel like I'm spreading negativity and that's not my intention. My intention is just to get my frustrations out, it's not even because I want people to read what I think on the situation. I just use TT as my vessel to let it all out so to speak. I'm not trying to influence any one to change their minds (and in all honesty, I don't believe any one else on here who thinks in a similar way to me is either), because I don't particularly care if every one agrees with me or no one does.

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How does...

 

"...buys all three shirts every season, gets a name and number on the back of each of those shirts, buys a training top every season, buys a few items in the casual clothing range whenever a new range is released, buy Christmas presents from the Everton online store for their family."

 

become...

 

"..bought a shirt and an Everton cup off Ebay."

 

huh.png?.

 

It's an attempt to put the 'buying of merchandise' back in to perspective.

 

Scenario A versus Scenario B

 

Scenario A, involves turning on the tv, with a can at your side, and your dog snuggly in front of the fire, to watch Everton play football, whilst wearing your proud 1980's league winning Everton shirt, (or doing it in the local pub) and duly praising, or critisising the said performance. Then when the match is over, jumping on the Internet, and discussing the game, with other like minded 'sofa or pub supporters'.

 

Scenario B, involves getting up at 4am, to catch the early train (or coach). Standing at the corner of the street in the pouring rain, until the lift to the station arrives, and then spending the rest of the morning on the train with other fans, as you make your way down south. Getting off said train, to ground, without getting lost, or worse in a fight, and then singing your asses off in the freezing cold, getting pissed on by the pouring rain, and watching your side play well, or bad. After the game, having made your way back home again, and having spent a fortune in the process, you finally get back, and if you haven't fallen asleep, gone to the pub, or other, you might switch your pc on, and discuss the match. Having switched on, you then read about the armchair fan shouting 'moyes Out'.

 

 

If anybody has the right to ask for Moyes to leave, it's the match goer, not, the cosy Internet fan.

 

Discuss Moyes by all means, and discuss how poorly / greatly you think he has managed the squad, but perhaps don't call for his head, or Kenwrights, when your sole contribution this weekend towards supporting the team, was the walk around Asda for the cans, and the payment at the end of the month for your Internet.

 

Many fans go to the match, or did go to the match, or have never been to the match, but some feel all fans have the same rights. You don't. It is morally wrong to think it.

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It's an attempt to put the 'buying of merchandise' back in to perspective.

 

Scenario A versus Scenario B

 

Scenario A, involves turning on the tv, with a can at your side, and your dog snuggly in front of the fire, to watch Everton play football, whilst wearing your proud 1980's league winning Everton shirt, (or doing it in the local pub) and duly praising, or critisising the said performance. Then when the match is over, jumping on the Internet, and discussing the game, with other like minded 'sofa or pub supporters'.

 

Scenario B, involves getting up at 4am, to catch the early train (or coach). Standing at the corner of the street in the pouring rain, until the lift to the station arrives, and then spending the rest of the morning on the train with other fans, as you make your way down south. Getting off said train, to ground, without getting lost, or worse in a fight, and then singing your asses off in the freezing cold, getting pissed on by the pouring rain, and watching your side play well, or bad. After the game, having made your way back home again, and having spent a fortune in the process, you finally get back, and if you haven't fallen asleep, gone to the pub, or other, you might switch your pc on, and discuss the match. Having switched on, you then read about the armchair fan shouting 'moyes Out'.

 

 

If anybody has the right to ask for Moyes to leave, it's the match goer, not, the cosy Internet fan.

 

Discuss Moyes by all means, and discuss how poorly / greatly you think he has managed the squad, but perhaps don't call for his head, or Kenwrights, when your sole contribution this weekend towards supporting the team, was the walk around Asda for the cans, and the payment at the end of the month for your Internet.

 

Many fans go to the match, or did go to the match, or have never been to the match, but some feel all fans have the same rights. You don't. It is morally wrong to think it.

 

So if I voted Tory in the general election and Cameron decides to introduce a policy such as bringing back capital punishment, that I and the majority of the population don't agree with, then only those who go to the Tory party conference are allowed to call for his resignation?

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I can't speak for any one else, but I go the games and I've been very critical of Moyes (this season in particular) but I don't feel like I'm spreading negativity and that's not my intention. My intention is just to get my frustrations out, it's not even because I want people to read what I think on the situation. I just use TT as my vessel to let it all out so to speak. I'm not trying to influence any one to change their minds (and in all honesty, I don't believe any one else on here who thinks in a similar way to me is either), because I don't particularly care if every one agrees with me or no one does.

 

You have the right to challenge the club, because you actively support the club. Whether you chose to do so or not is your own decision. I'm not sure the guy sat 7000 miles away, or the guy sat at his pc, has the same right.

 

It's just my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right or wrong.

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It's an attempt to put the 'buying of merchandise' back in to perspective.

 

You attempt to bring things into perspective by totally misrepresenting what someone said and in so doing distorting their perspectivehuh.png .

 

Makes perfect sense...you sure you've not worked for the tabloids?

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You have the right to challenge the club, because you actively support the club. Whether you chose to do so or not is your own decision. I'm not sure the guy sat 7000 miles away, or the guy sat at his pc, has the same right.

 

It's just my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right or wrong.

 

 

Fair enough, but I think if they're putting money into the club (whatever way, shape or form) then they do have a right to challenge the club. The club needs all the fans that put money into it, not just the match goers. If the non-match goers were to stop putting that money in then the club would be fucked.

 

You've said you no longer go to the games but that doesn't make your positive outlook on Everton any less valid, and it shouldn't devalidate the negative outlook of other non-match goers.

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So if I voted Tory in the general election and Cameron decides to introduce a policy such as bringing back capital punishment, that I and the majority of the population don't agree with, then only those who go to the Tory party conference are allowed to call for his resignation?

 

Mogsy, if you are given a badge, that says you are the worlds best Everton supporter, you might smile, but would you stand next to a fan dressed in blue and white, at the bus stop, wearing it, when he is off to the match, and you are off to Asda to get cans in order to watch it on tv?

 

Not sure where you are coming from with the Tory thing. You seem to be missing the point.

 

Let me presume for a moment:

 

You live in Wales. Your local economy is unaffected by Everton's survival or demise.

You don't go to the match. You don't cheer on the players, or add to the match atmosphere. You don't contribute to match day revenue, be it tickets, programmes, merchandise, stall souvenirs, hot dogs, beer before / after the game, bus fare, train fare, taxi fare, or anything else associated with match day or the economy. You don't own a season ticket, nor do you own shares in the football club, so don't go to shareholders meetings, or AGM's. You don't have the required first hand information as a result, nor the breakdown of Evertons finances, budget, or hopes for the future. You don't even live in the same country.

 

Should you have a vote, if such a vote were to exist, that would determine whether David Moyes remained manager? I know I shouldn't, but should you?

 

I use 'you' as an example btw Mogsy. It isn't directed in particular at your situation.

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Fair enough, but I think if they're putting money into the club (whatever way, shape or form) then they do have a right to challenge the club. The club needs all the fans that put money into it, not just the match goers. If the non-match goers were to stop putting that money in then the club would be fucked.

 

You've said you no longer go to the games but that doesn't make your positive outlook on Everton any less valid, and it shouldn't devalidate the negative outlook of other non-match goers.

No, I agree. My outlook is no more important than Hafs outlook. I get annoyed at plenty, but I refrain from trying to have an impact as such.

 

I'm actually disabled for the record, but that isn't the only reason I don't go to matches every week. I actually don't like it any more. Sure, I like the football, but I don't like the crowds. You'd think after going to the game since a young kid I'd be used to it, but when I became ill I started to get anxious in certain situations, and going to the game became too much for me. It's funny I know, but the brain is a funny thing. I still go to the odd game, but I have to be dragged kicking and screaming normally. That's why I wouldn't tell Moyes what to do. Who am I to tell a guy to resign, or call for his head, when 40,000 match goers tend to be pro Moyes? Fans make me laugh when they think they have a right to dictate to the club.

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Fans make me laugh when they think they have a right to dictate to the club.

 

Dictate to the club? That isn't what this is about at all.

 

Everyone has their own views and opinions on formations, players who should or shouldn't be playing, and they're just putting them across on a forum. No one thinks Moyes reads these pages but that's not why people post.

 

So I have no idea how you've made the jump to fans dictating to the club.

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Dictate to the club? That isn't what this is about at all.

 

Everyone has their own views and opinions on formations, players who should or shouldn't be playing, and they're just putting them across on a forum. No one thinks Moyes reads these pages but that's not why people post.

 

So I have no idea how you've made the jump to fans dictating to the club.

 

Romey, I don't quote specific posts, but the 'air' of the forum is negative, and one that has been augmented by one or 2 members in particular, like a dark dye in a bucket of tears. This was always a chirpy place, but members are being influenced by a minority, and the negativity has drawn other members to join in order to just have a moan. I don't see why positive members should be scrutinized, and have to justify their stance, when they stand against negative members. You are negative, so why would you agree with my positivity? I don't expect you to, but at the same time understand that not all fans are at the cliffs edge. Many of us have seen it all before. For better and for worse tends to apply.

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Romey, I don't quote specific posts, but the 'air' of the forum is negative, and one that has been augmented by one or 2 members in particular, like a dark dye in a bucket of tears. This was always a chirpy place, but members are being influenced by a minority, and the negativity has drawn other members to join in order to just have a moan. I don't see why positive members should be scrutinized, and have to justify their stance, when they stand against negative members. You are negative, so why would you agree with my positivity? I don't expect you to, but at the same time understand that not all fans are at the cliffs edge. Many of us have seen it all before. For better and for worse tends to apply.

 

 

I still don't see how negative posts about how the team is performing, the manager etc are dictating to the club so you're going to have to explain that one.

 

If members are just being sheep and joining in with negative posting just for the sake of it, rather than actually believing what they're believing, then that's quite sad and reflects badly on them. But that doesn't take anything away from any valid negative points that do surround this club at the moment.

 

Positive members aren't being scrutinized and asked to explain their stance at all, Avin. Infact, it's the negative posters that seem to be the ones that are being scrutinized and being asked to explain their stance. You got a bee in your bonnet about this all of this, it's you that has instigated this whole issue. It's not you that's having to explain your stance here, it's me because I have a negative outlook at this present time. You've even asked for people to stop being negative in the past.

 

I do understand that not everyone is at the cliff's edge, which is why this is a discussion and I'm not being an idiot like you'd get on other forums (mentioning no names *cough* Blue Kipper *cough*) and simply telling you you're being a dick head instead of debating.

 

Do you understand that not everyone is happy with the current situation? That there are people who choose to talk about the problems? It doesn't seem as though you're as open minded as you'd like everyone else to be.

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I still don't see how negative posts about how the team is performing, the manager etc are dictating to the club so you're going to have to explain that one.

 

If members are just being sheep and joining in with negative posting just for the sake of it, rather than actually believing what they're believing, then that's quite sad and reflects badly on them. But that doesn't take anything away from any valid negative points that do surround this club at the moment.

 

Positive members aren't being scrutinized and asked to explain their stance at all, Avin. Infact, it's the negative posters that seem to be the ones that are being scrutinized and being asked to explain their stance. You got a bee in your bonnet about this all of this, it's you that has instigated this whole issue. It's not you that's having to explain your stance here, it's me because I have a negative outlook at this present time. You've even asked for people to stop being negative in the past.

 

I do understand that not everyone is at the cliff's edge, which is why this is a discussion and I'm not being an idiot like you'd get on other forums (mentioning no names *cough* Blue Kipper *cough*) and simply telling you you're being a dick head instead of debating.

 

Do you understand that not everyone is happy with the current situation? That there are people who choose to talk about the problems? It doesn't seem as though you're as open minded as you'd like everyone else to be.

 

I'm plenty open minded Romey.

 

I just think one or 2 lads here have influenced quite a lot of others. (Mentioning no names *cough* Haf *cough*). I agree though, and I'm not being an idiot either, by calling you a knobhead instead of debating like some very bad people might on Kipper. biggrin.png

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Romey, I don't quote specific posts, but the 'air' of the forum is negative, and one that has been augmented by one or 2 members in particular, like a dark dye in a bucket of tears. This was always a chirpy place, but members are being influenced by a minority, and the negativity has drawn other members to join in order to just have a moan. I don't see why positive members should be scrutinized, and have to justify their stance, when they stand against negative members. You are negative, so why would you agree with my positivity? I don't expect you to, but at the same time understand that not all fans are at the cliffs edge. Many of us have seen it all before. For better and for worse tends to apply.

I wouldn't say negative, but more a reflection of loss in faith in Moyes. When we line up with Neville in midfield even though we have Fellaini who's more then capable to do it alone, then bring on another defender for our only striker it's disheartening to say the least.

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actually, while we're at, I've never registered with Bluekipper, is it any good mellow.png

 

I used to be on Grand Old Team for some time but now it's now so full of things and icons flashing away and non related Everton bits on postings that I got so disillusioned I haven't been back for eons now, pity really, as I remember I was active nearly every day and had some fun times before it all got a bit out of hand

 

point being, More is sometimes Less 67.gif

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I wouldn't say negative, but more a reflection of loss in faith in Moyes. When we line up with Neville in midfield even though we have Fellaini who's more then capable to do it alone, then bring on another defender for our only striker it's disheartening to say the least.

 

Did we play better after Saha went off and Distin came on Pete?

 

I think we did.

 

What was Saha giving us? Most of our goals come from our midfield, not our strikers. I wouldn't even play Saha given the choice.

 

Moyes played many games in the past with no strikers, and we won most of them.

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actually, while we're at, I've never registered with Bluekipper, is it any good mellow.png

 

I used to be on Grand Old Team for some time but now it's now so full of things and icons flashing away and non related Everton bits on postings that I got so disillusioned I haven't been back for eons now, pity really, as I remember I was active nearly every day and had some fun times before it all got a bit out of hand

 

point being, More is sometimes Less 67.gif

 

Try it for yourself. That is the only way to know.

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actually, while we're at, I've never registered with Bluekipper, is it any good mellow.png

 

Think I'm registered on there from years back but I've never really used it. Too big apart from anything else.....on the big ones (if you're a slow typer like me) by the time your contribution goes up the subject has often moved onsad.png .

 

I like the level of activity we have on here...it's like a few blokes standing around in a pub rather than a mass meetingsmile.png .

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