MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Lots of people saying Rooney was poor. Think that's harsh - perhaps I overstated it by saying he was 'excellent' in the second half, but he was constantly involved and at least trying to create. I probably exaggerated but poor seems harsh. Rooney was great. Poor was Sterling and Gerrard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Some will blame this defender or that defender, but the truth is that England is weak across the board. As against Italy, this game was won and lost in midfield. Gerrard? Maybe played too deep but ineffective. Henderson? Inexperience showing. Welbeck? Did he even play? What about the forward line? Were they lethal or a constant threat? No. Compared to other teams, comparatively weak. And Hart was shaky at times in goal. Manager? Played too many players out of position. So it's not fair to blame just one player or one aspect of the team: Overall, it's simply a poor team. Strong nowhere and suspect everywhere. Miguel - I know you've disagreed throughout, and I don't want to sound unduly negative, but what matters are results. England's results? Played 2, lost 2. In both games, the opposition was at best average and the results a fair reflection of play. Italy are not average mate and no team with Suarez in can be called average it was a tough group but at the end of the day we wernt good enough to get out of it. So we don't deserve to go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) It's still not mathematically impossible. But realistically you'd need Italy to win the last two games and for you to hammer Costa Rica. It's extremely unlikely, and I think Colombia would beat you anyway, as I said when the draw was made. Edited June 19, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Personally I think we are ok going forward. Defence not good enough and central midfield. Manager a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Hart isn't a very good goalkeeper either, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I generally laugh when England are eliminated Me too, but it's sad to see the faces and genuine disappointment of the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Dixon saying its Jags fault?!?!?!? In the first half he did make some dangerous defensive mistakes against Suarez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Agree with most of that, but not sure I'd call Italy 'average'. Unless you are referring simply to that performance in that game solely. Yes. That performance in that game solely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Gerrard is just dead wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Me too, but it's sad to see the faces and genuine disappointment of the fans. It doesn't hurt me at all when England lose. I remember being devastated in 2002 when Brazil beat us but it just doesn't touch me in the same way these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yes. That performance in that game solely. Fair play. I felt Italy were professional - playing in the jungle, they paced themselves and did what they had to do to win the game. I hope to see them improve as the tournament progresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Fair play. I felt Italy were professional - playing in the jungle, they paced themselves and did what they had to do to win the game. I hope to see them improve as the tournament progresses. We shall see. I still suspect that Costa Rica and Uruguay will go through. Maybe Pirlo will prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) We shall see. I still suspect that Costa Rica and Uruguay will go through. Maybe Pirlo will prove me wrong. Yes, this group looks like a three way thing. Happy to see CR do well as I didn't like the way they were being painted as whipping boys (sometimes we can all be guilty of it i.e. underestimating the so-called weakest team). It's been a great group stage thus far and I suspect there are plenty of twists to come. Imagine if Greece actually went all out attack & put a few past Japan? That would be a sure sign that the apocalypse is imminent. With Ivory Coast to come they might have to go for broke. Same was true at Euro 2008 though and they never even bothered. Edited June 19, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Jags has just proved that it didn't matter who was and wasn't fit to play cb in the derby at anfield last season. On his day that man distroys anyone. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 We shall see. I still suspect that Costa Rica and Uruguay will go through. Maybe Pirlo will prove me wrong. Each to their own mate but that's wild logic and completely against the status quo. Stranger things have happened. We'll find out tomorrow I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Jags has just proved that it didn't matter who was and wasn't fit to play cb in the derby at anfield last season. On his day that man distroys anyone. Don't rate Jagielka anymore. Stones miles ahead for me. That back four was weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Each to their own mate but that's wild logic and completely against the status quo. Stranger things have happened. We'll find out tomorrow I guess I think he's covering all the bases. Let's be honest, Costa Rica were impressive in defeating Uruguay and they've been on the up for a while. They're not a poor team now, even though CONCACAF is a weak region. It'd be nice to see them progress at the expense of one of the others as it's nice to see the so-called lesser teams have their time in the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 By stepping up you are gambling though.... Always gambling. Suarez gamble paid off because Cahills didn't. Defences step up in every game in every league in every week; sometimes they get the timing wrong but they don't expect their star midfielder to fuck up and lay the ball on a plate to the opposition. Gerrard's fault, nobody elses. Johnsy and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Remember months ago when I asked if it was worth putting a tenner or even as much as £50 on England to finish bottom at 10/1? I know this is a pretty sensitive time but fucking hell if I'd have went ahead with it I could have made some nice coin. Just need CR to avoid defeat in the last game. Edited June 19, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) corrected Defences step up in every game in every league in every week; sometimes they get the timing wrong but they don't expect their star midfielder to fuck up and lay the ball on a plate to the opposition. Gerrard's fault, nobody elses.Nope, By stepping up Cahill gambles on either both players missing the header and it coming off our player and both times Suarez is onside and in on goal. If he didn't step up and tracked him he wouldn't have been in on goal wrong decision and a complete gamble. Edited June 19, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 By stepping up you are gambling though.... Always gambling. Suarez gamble paid off because Cahills didn't. he had Suarez in his pocket (offside). The only thing he might be blamed for is not calling for the ball, but whether he did or not is irrelvant - Gerrard played a ball he couldnt control, and in doing that played someone who was technically out of the game in on goal. If Gerrard leaves it, it goes to Cahills feet without pressure. In the first half he did make some dangerous defensive mistakes against Suarez. so? he wasnt responsible for eithe goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Nope, By stepping up Cahill gambles on either both players missing the header and it coming off our player and both times Suarez is onside and in on goal. If he didn't step up and tracked him he wouldn't have been in on goal wrong decision and a complete gamble. if the Ururguian player touches it on, Suarez is offisde. If Gerrard doesnt touch it, it goes to Cahills feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 in addition, only Townsend blames the defence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't agree matt. If he tracks the run either way Suarez had a man to beat before getting a strike on goal. He made a massive gamble on Gerrard or the Uruguay player winning that ball. If he'd have tracked the run we wouldn't be having this discussion now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't agree matt. If he tracks the run either way Suarez had a man to beat before getting a strike on goal. He made a massive gamble on Gerrard or the Uruguay player winning that ball. If he'd have tracked the run we wouldn't be having this discussion now. If he tracks Suarez, hes probably loses out in a one on one. If he has him offside, hes out of play. Gerrard made the gamble, albeit understandable (it was 50/50) and lost, costing us a goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 If he tracks Suarez, hes probably loses out in a one on one. If he has him offside, hes out of play. Gerrard made the gamble, albeit understandable (it was 50/50) and lost, costing us a goal You're using hindsight to counter my hindsight. But you're saying Suarez would have beat him in a one on one. Maybe he would have but we'll never know an that additional obstacle would have put Suarez off and allowed Jagielka to recover. I agree Gerrard should have won the ball but you've got to look behind that and the centre halfs made the wrong call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I agree Gerrard should have won the ball but you've got to look behind that and the centre halfs made the wrong call. The center halves shouldn't have to make a decision based on the assumption that their captain is going to fuck up. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 You're using hindsight to counter my hindsight. But you're saying Suarez would have beat him in a one on one. Maybe he would have but we'll never know an that additional obstacle would have put Suarez off and allowed Jagielka to recover. I agree Gerrard should have won the ball but you've got to look behind that and the centre halfs made the wrong call. I guess I am My argument is, as a defender, if you arent going to man mark, you make sure hes not part of the game. He wasnt part of the game (offside). My hindsight is based on Suarez scoring more one on one than scoring whilst offside. Still, as you say, its all hindsight. Im just thinking Im placing blame correctly. But lets agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 The center halves shouldn't have to make a decision based on the assumption that their captain is going to fuck up. The exact same thing happens every week in the premiership. Players misjudge the header. This time we were punished for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Anyway, I reckon if it was on the BBC we'd have won Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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