Moyes should go/Moyes should stay

[Guest blueboy122]

He is being fair in that we have to realize Moyes has taken us far down the road as he is able, everybody is aware of the league recognition involved and what a pick up it was after Smith, the man takes all the accolades going for the good work he has done but the bottom line is there simply won't be any end product in way of a trophy, broken records and all but Moyes seems unable to take the final few steps necessary when the going gets tough, we always seem to blow it on the big occasions or seem unable to overcome the biggest obstacles, Moyes takes his share of the responsibilties, it's his job to pick the team, motivate and manage the club on a week to week basis. All I'm we're saying is some of us would really like to see a trophy at Goodison again, been 17 years now, some would say maybe not good enough for a club of our stature, no club has any divine right to win anything, but we should have been successful again by now since 1995, in way of at least a trophy, Moyes has done well in the league, of course, but ten years now and it's frustrating each end of season seeing clubs win something and we miss out again, another opportunity went by this season, got quite close in the end but folded on the big day when some glory was in sight, still angry to a degree. Say what you like but that's how I feel about it.

 

Without Moyes we would not even be thinking about winning anything. Moyes will only have taken us as far as he can when he has spent some cash. There is no body better than David Moyes for Everton at the moment. Looking forward to next season when we see Swansea and Norwich slide down that table into trouble so I can say told you so to a few fickle evertonians. It was Owen Coyle last year, Lambert & Rodgers this season, next season it will be someone like Brian Mcdermott or Nigel Adkins.

[Dalziel Kane]

I simply can't buy into the fact that people state 'there is nobody better than Moyes for EFC at the moment', am I alone in thinking there just could well be out there, furthermore we don't know how other clubs will fare with respective managers next season, people said back in August, in fact they were sure of it, that Lambert and Rogers couldn't hold Swansea and Norwich together in the EPL, but look at what they have done. Ok, the 'one season wonder' tag will always rise to the fore but as of now, we really don't know what will happen, there's every chance they will make some reinforcements in the close season, make one or two worthwhile purchases and maybe even do well for another season, you never can tell. As for McDermott and Adkins, the championship league is a damn difficult league to get out of, harder to win than the EPL some say, suppose for arguments sake Everton were ever relegated, I was in two minds about whether we could initially bounce back at the first attempt, take into account how we usually fare against lower league opposition as well, but it seems the issue could be irrelevant as Toffees seem in no danger of a relegation any time soon, although there has been one or two instances the last few seasons where we were looking over our shoulders but in the end, any threat was eventually averted. It seems with Moyes we have a slow start, pick up into the second half of the season and sometimes finish strongly grabbing a Top Ten finish more often than not, of course the European Cup places aren't really a viable objective with what we have and what can be spent even though there was that surprise finish in 2005, but it seems most seasons it's like a 6th or 7th place finish and every season, not a trophy to be had. I realize the League is a tall order and the finishes we have now, don't seem too bad, but there's no prizes for that and I just feel every now and again, what if someone else had a go, I'm just curious and all, and see where it takes us. Moyes is too defensive minded and falters on the biggest occasions for me, we come close to something, I think we are going to achieve something, and it always ends up with the same predicament. This year has been no different.

 

Maybe a Rogers, Adkins, McDermott, Lambert etc, can't do a better job than Moyes in way of the league, but the main thing is if they aren't given an opportunity then how can we ever know?. Moyes appears stale sometimes, a spent force, we don't seem to be going anywhere, stuck in static too often, it's damn frustrating sometimes, would it be worth a gamble to try a new direction or face and at least see how we fare, you know, have a manager who at least goes out to win, maybe they aren't better than Moyes, but at least show some impetus and imagination, that's what Moyes lacks the most, it's simply survival each season and no end product with anything won, it's damn stale sometimes. There just seems no forward movement anymore. We can't keep looking back to the league finishes, i.e. 4th, 5th, 6th under Moyes, all very well etc and hats off, but what about the future, I can't really see one so long as Moyes is manager, of course the investment thing is an issue also, we don't have the money to compete with those above us, but the issue seems irrelevant when you've got a single minded manager that is afraid to take a chance or insists on 'safety first', and capitulates when at the most crucial moments or when we get actually near to winning anything.

[Guest blueboy122]

The points you raise are decent however I dont agree with any of them. I dont understand the point of the championship is a harder league to win? So have Chelsea been looking at the wrong managers for five years and should have employed someone like Steve Coppel who has won the championship? I agree that Moyes is to defensive minded etc however I would much rather we were solid at the back than be like Swansea who leave themselves so open its unreal. Within regards to us being so close to winning something, I fully agree and it just makes me think how much of a good side we are and how good David Moyes is, we are only a player or two short of actually winning something I believe.

 

This thread appears as soon as we lost to the shite which is pathetic because I am more than confident that if Distin didnt drop the clanger then we would be going back to Wembley, we had weathered the storm and we were looking on the front foot again and looking for the second goal.

 

Maybe the title of this thread should be "Distin Should Go" Thats how pathetic some fans are.

[Memmaclub]

I raised this topic in the spur of the moment and maybe even I don't believe that I want moyes to go. What I really want is to see progress off the back of mistakes moyes must know that with Liverpool playing as crap as they have been for the last few months what their weaknesses were but the same old shit happened got a lucky goal and then sat back. That tatctic worked against City although we took a barrage of pressure. The problem I had with the liverpool performance was he couldn't motivate the players enough to make it look like they wanted to win against a side who on form were worse than us just like against wigan.

 

I challenge anyone again have you seen more than one top draw performance from us this season I can't remember one where we played someone off the park. When we have beaten the big teams they have outplayed but not managed to score. In games against smaller sides we have been shit the west brom away win we were absolute rubbish.

[Romey 1878]

I challenge anyone again have you seen more than one top draw performance from us this season I can't remember one where we played someone off the park. When we have beaten the big teams they have outplayed but not managed to score. In games against smaller sides we have been shit the west brom away win we were absolute rubbish.

 

 

You really can't remember one? The complete dismantling of Sunderland springs to mind. And it's a game like that that makes the Liverpool game so hard to take.

[Memmaclub]

I said more than one

[Romey 1878]

I said more than one

 

 

You also said you couldn't think of one, nevermind more than one.

[marcopaulo]

swansea away? comfortable against chelsea at home from what i saw too...also west brom and sunderland at home?

[SimonButtle]

The points you raise are decent however I dont agree with any of them. I dont understand the point of the championship is a harder league to win? So have Chelsea been looking at the wrong managers for five years and should have employed someone like Steve Coppel who has won the championship? I agree that Moyes is to defensive minded etc however I would much rather we were solid at the back than be like Swansea who leave themselves so open its unreal. Within regards to us being so close to winning something, I fully agree and it just makes me think how much of a good side we are and how good David Moyes is, we are only a player or two short of actually winning something I believe.

 

This thread appears as soon as we lost to the shite which is pathetic because I am more than confident that if Distin didnt drop the clanger then we would be going back to Wembley, we had weathered the storm and we were looking on the front foot again and looking for the second goal.

 

Maybe the title of this thread should be "Distin Should Go" Thats how pathetic some fans are.

Bit more than one or two i reckon, Howard,Hibbert,Jags,Distin,Neville,Cahill, all are around the age of 30 or over, so we need to be looking to replace them at some point(not all at once obviously) Drenthe and Straq will be no longer in a few weeks(well Royston already is) and im not including Pienaar as we don't know what will happen with him.

[marcopaulo]

and pienaar is 30 if you did include him

[SimonButtle]

and pienaar is 30 if you did include him

thanks, i did'nt realise he was 30, thought he was a bit younger, but then he has been round a fair while.

[Louis]

From Alan Stubbs:

 

"The club has some big decisions to make. Unless we get a new investor it is going to be very difficult for the manager. I think David has come to a crossroads in his career.

 

"Does he stay at Everton, a club he loves and where he has a fantastic relationship with the chairman, or does he take that next step?"

[Hafnia]

Very strange for someone who works in the club to come out with that...is it Stubbs way of getting a message to Kenwright? I think so.

[SimonButtle]

Very strange for someone who works in the club to come out with that...is it Stubbs way of getting a message to Kenwright? I think so.

Sounds like it.

[Memmaclub]

Ok so the season is over. What do people think now.

 

I still believe we have hit the glass ceiling and there is no way through. I think things will be optimistic come the start of next season jelavic proved a great signing but he came in 6 months too late. Which I blame moyes for.

 

I think people don't understand my motives on view on the whole thing. Yes this thread was a knee jerk reaction to a bad result but 1 of a long list of ineptitude this.

I still think moyes should go because he has too many bad performances against the bad teams he doesn't make decisions quickly and when he gets round to one it's normally too late.

[Zoo]

Fucking hell, no please some people is there? Finishing 7th ahead of Liverpool with a really good squad to take into next year and people want Moyes sacked. May I ask who you would want to replace him with Memmaclub? Alex McLeish maybe? It both amazes and angers me that people want to sack Moyes when yet again he's got us finishing the season in a high position playing good football.

[Mogsy]

I think things will be optimistic come the start of next season jelavic proved a great signing but he came in 6 months too late. Which I blame moyes for.

 

 

How can this be Moyes's fault?? If he doesn't have the funds at the start of the season, which we didn't then he can hardly be to blame!?

 

Should he go? I'm inclined to see what happens next season provided we keep our current squad intact. If we don't start well next season with jelly up front and hopefully peanuts in then why seriously needs to be looked at. Hopefully he'll prove all his doubters wrong with a top 5 position.

Edited May 15, 2012 by mogsy

[Guest blueboy122]

Fucking hell, no please some people is there? Finishing 7th ahead of Liverpool with a really good squad to take into next year and people want Moyes sacked. May I ask who you would want to replace him with Memmaclub? Alex McLeish maybe? It both amazes and angers me that people want to sack Moyes when yet again he's got us finishing the season in a high position playing good football.

 

Exactly

[Matt]

Fucking hell, no please some people is there? Finishing 7th ahead of Liverpool with a really good squad to take into next year and people want Moyes sacked. May I ask who you would want to replace him with Memmaclub? Alex McLeish maybe? It both amazes and angers me that people want to sack Moyes when yet again he's got us finishing the season in a high position playing good football.

We need a like button.

 

Spot on Zoo....

[pete0]

Fucking hell, no please some people is there? Finishing 7th ahead of Liverpool with a really good squad to take into next year and people want Moyes sacked. May I ask who you would want to replace him with Memmaclub? Alex McLeish maybe? It both amazes and angers me that people want to sack Moyes when yet again he's got us finishing the season in a high position playing good football.

7th was a minimum expectation regardless of who's above or below us, finishing above Liverpool means nothing when were below Newcastle. Moyes had a strong finish but he really has to go back and look at the 3 games against Liverpool, Chelsea away, Bolton, Norwich, and Stoke at home. You can allow for dips in form and off days but some of these games were worthy of the sack. He needs a break or a new muse to find some inspiration and start taking some risks.

[Dalziel Kane]

Moyes is too dour, bland, defensive and unadventurous for me, the club will win nothing so long as he is manager, the record feels broken. Nice safe defensive soccer each season and a sixth, seventh, eight place (or indeed lower) finish each time is all very well but in terms of an actual trophy, it will not arrive, and as each season passes and we draw further away from 1995, it's really imperative this club wins something substantial again soon. This will never happen with David Moyes.

 

Rushing a bit maybe as pressed for time, but that's how I always see it, I can't change that viewpoint, unless of course until the club wins something again, but until that time...

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Fucking hell, no please some people is there? Finishing 7th ahead of Liverpool with a really good squad to take into next year and people want Moyes sacked. May I ask who you would want to replace him with Memmaclub? Alex McLeish maybe? It both amazes and angers me that people want to sack Moyes when yet again he's got us finishing the season in a high position playing good football.

 

Totally agree

 

Lol and " You can allow for dips in form and off days but some of these games were worthy of the sack "?

 

Jesus , what about the the rest of the games in the last 10 years? You cant go sacking a manager because of a dip in form, all teams go through these patches

 

Always does amuse me who these Moyes bashers think is going to come in and do a better job, who was it last year? Owen Coyle... well look were he is now

 

Moyse is a million miles away from being perfect but he is also the best manager who is likely to be remotely interested in the job at Goodison

Edited May 15, 2012 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[marcus jones]

Totally agree

 

Lol and " You can allow for dips in form and off days but some of these games were worthy of the sack "?

 

Jesus , what about the the rest of the games in the last 10 years? You cant go sacking a manager because of a dip in form, all teams go through these patches

 

Always does amuse me who these Moyes bashers think is going to come in and do a better job, who was it last year? Owen Coyle... well look were he is now

 

Moyse is a million miles away from being perfect but he is also the best manager who is likely to be remotely interested in the job at Goodison

Hmmmmmm......... took the words out of my mouth there Dunc any ways, I think Moyes can go on to great things here with a tactical forward looking '' go for the throat'' No 2 by his side. Perhaps he should go and sit on the bench with Spain, Germany and the Dutch to see how the very top managers set up their team, only saying like.

[Zoo]

Are you really saying that because of a 'dip in form' we should be sacking Moyes? If football worked like that then Sir Alex Ferguson should have been kicked out of Old Trafford when his side lost 6-1 against Manchester City, you can't sack a manager purely because of a dip in form because all teams go through it, just look at Tottenham too. Since Harry was linked with the England job they have been wank and he too hasn't been sacked, a manager should be sacked because he can no longer manage the team, not because he slips up a few times in a season.

[pete0]

Are you really saying that because of a 'dip in form' we should be sacking Moyes? If football worked like that then Sir Alex Ferguson should have been kicked out of Old Trafford when his side lost 6-1 against Manchester City, you can't sack a manager purely because of a dip in form because all teams go through it, just look at Tottenham too. Since Harry was linked with the England job they have been wank and he too hasn't been sacked, a manager should be sacked because he can no longer manage the team, not because he slips up a few times in a season.

The derbys and Chelsea away were gutless performances of a man with out any ambition. 3 of the worst performances I've ever seen.

[Zoo]

The derbys and Chelsea away were gutless performances of a man with out any ambition. 3 of the worst performances I've ever seen.

 

So Moyes should be sacked because we played 3 bad games out of 38 (plus however cup matches on top). That statement is bizarre, I'm not going to even bother to create a constructive counter argument because I can't be bothered with the effort. No offence but what your talking is complete bollocks. Good day.

[Blue 250]

Football management is surely like most occupations (except for the wages).....you get better as you gain experience.

Moyes is still pretty young, he's made mistakes, with a bit of luck he will learn by them.

 

Get rid of Moyes?........With our present squad and with little money to spend, who could do better?

 

I don't believe we couldn't attract decent managers, we pay Moyes a small fortune, I just believe sticking with Moyes to be the best option.

 

Dalglish could be available soon, I know who I'd rather have.

 

He could have been to proud to bring back Pienaar and he could have done like other managers and not took a chance with Jelavic........David Moyes will do for me.

[Memmaclub]

Zoo let's be honest my old son opinion is everyone's right and throwing insults because you disagree shows your lack of ability to express yourself. This is a discussion forum where people want to discuss. I'll be honest I raised the point now without the cloud of mist I was under when I first raised this thread. However I still agree that Moyes is treading water now and I would rather give someone else ago who has the hunger and can pass that onto the players. It may be risky but I would rather see us trying week in week out than stuttering into the next campaign. The persistence Moyes shows with his team selection Saha etc was laughable at the beginning of the season and although jelavic came good I think that inspite of Moyes not because of him.

[Zoo]

I really don't understand how you came to the judgement that I've thrown insults around, like I've said in many threads before a forum is somewhere where different opinions are welcome and I don't believe that I've actually got personal with anyone I've just made my point and put it across to the rest of the members.

 

As for giving Moyes the sack I still completely disagree (for the reasons stated previously) and I think that sacking him would do more damage to the club than it would do good. The only way that we would be able to sack Moyes and bring in a top class manager would be if we had strong investment which we don't have so for now David is the best candidate for the job.

[adziom]

Zoo let's be honest my old son opinion is everyone's right and throwing insults because you disagree shows your lack of ability to express yourself. This is a discussion forum where people want to discuss. I'll be honest I raised the point now without the cloud of mist I was under when I first raised this thread. However I still agree that Moyes is treading water now and I would rather give someone else ago who has the hunger and can pass that onto the players. It may be risky but I would rather see us trying week in week out than stuttering into the next campaign. The persistence Moyes shows with his team selection Saha etc was laughable at the beginning of the season and although jelavic came good I think that inspite of Moyes not because of him.

 

Moyes is treading water because he has to sell to buy, and in the mean time, all the players that he bought a few years ago reach the wrong side of 30. Many, in fact most managers would have struggled to keep Everton in the league with the squad Moyes inherited ten years ago and the resources he has received since. One season, the guy took a squad with players like Carsley, Pistone, Weir, Stubbs, McFadden, Kilbane, Marcus Bent, all players who were barely even good enough for lower Premiership sides, into the Champions League, and for me, that has got to be one of the greatest achievements of any manager over the past ten years, regardless of our elimination in the qualifiers.

 

But let's get to the present and look at this season. The most popular shouts for "someone else" to come in and do a better job are Lambert, whose Norwich side relies on a fat lump of a goalscorer and a pool of mediocre Championship players to win matches, and Rodgers, who gets over-creditted with Swansea's meteoric rise through the leagues, when actually they've been playing like that and winning promotions since Roberto Martinez managed them. Meanwhile, David Moyes had to start this season having lost Pienaar and Arteta, and with an attack of Saha, who was shitter than anybody could have conceivably predicted until he left in January, Vellios, who was 18, and Stracqualursi, an unheard of Argentine who, despite all his hard work and guts, has proven to be little better than mediocre. Yet, he pulled off some astute business in January, getting rid of Bilyaletdinov and Saha, and bringing in Pienaar, Donovan, Gibson and Jelavic, signings who were met with varying levels of support from the fans, but who have unanimously proved to be a raging success.

 

On top of that, we've had a brilliant end to the season, he's made some key tactical calls that many of us were sceptical about that have paid off - playing Hibbert over Duffy alongside Heitinga against City, moving Fellaini forward to support the attack in spite of his excellent defensive work, used Anichebe effectively as an impact sub, which in itself earned us a total of 5 points at West Brom, Villa and Wigan - and after the dust settled we've ended up 7th, comfortably ahead of Liverpool, Fulham and some other pretty decent sides with good players. Despite the failure in the Semi Final, which I personally put down to the players making errors and bottling it, more than Moyes picking what was clearly the best line up available to us, it's been a good season. Sure, like the man himself has said, we're 7th, not in Europe, and without silverware, but remember to put the season into perspective, where we were at the start of the season and how he's turned it around since.