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9 hours ago, pete0 said:

Again doing a Mr Trump. How am I talking shite. Seriously learn to debate, you're so zonal/rigid in your thoughts your blind to you or your opinion being wrong. Open your eyes/mind you'll be a much more, weigh up facts, and make an informed opinion rather than just belittling anything that goes beyond your blinkers. 

Coleman was offered a contract when injured. Jagielka signed a new one every week. It's very rare Everton let a first team player run down their contract. On the balance of probabilities do you think Bill just forgot to offer him one or he's been tapped up and advised to run his contract down? 

And yet here you are with Trump and all that political shite you spew.   You are telling me to look at facts and open my eyes and mind??? You spout more shite on here than anyone.bar none. But I'm  Impressed you haven't incorrectly used straw man for the 100th time. You just decide not to use it. 

Does the latter part of my post not clearly indicate that it's my view and if you don't agree then that's fine but we won't know until he releases a biography? Yes it does. 

Informed opinion?:-

1. Koeman joined the club 19 months before Barkley left.  25 months before his contract was up.  Club policy was to address contracts  18-24 months before run out.

2. Koeman got a new contract done for lukaku who had more time remaining on his existing one.  Barkley was told to earn it.

3. 2 months later Barkley is getting a sign it or leave ultimatum after months of koeman taking pot shots at him. 

Facts indeed. You wouldn't know them if they smacked you over the head. 

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29 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Informed opinion?:-

1. Koeman joined the club 19 months before Barkley left.  25 months before his contract was up.  Club policy was to address contracts  18-24 months before run out.

2. Koeman got a new contract done for lukaku who had more time remaining on his existing one.  Barkley was told to earn it.

3. 2 months later Barkley is getting a sign it or leave ultimatum after months of koeman taking pot shots at him. 

Facts indeed. You wouldn't know them if they smacked you over the head. 

I don't think you understand the difference between facts and opinions, and making an informed opinion. What are you weighing up in making your statements? 

1. Simply not true. Pickford just renewed after only a year into his. Everton secure their younger players (forgetting the one-off Gosling debacle). Given the Gosling situation, it have put more onus on getting contracts sorted early or do you think the club hasn't learned their lesson. 

2/3. Why would you offer Lukaku and not Barkley? Both are first team players. On the balance of probability Barkley would have been offered one too. 

How do you know Barkley wasn't already offered one? How do you know Koeman wasn't just saving face by saying he'll have to earn one. For all we know one was on the table and Barkley wanted more money or more assurances or was saying both those things just to delay and run down his contract. 

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48 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I don't think you understand the difference between facts and opinions, and making an informed opinion. What are you weighing up in making your statements? 

1. Simply not true. Pickford just renewed after only a year into his. Everton secure their younger players (forgetting the one-off Gosling debacle). Given the Gosling situation, it have put more onus on getting contracts sorted early or do you think the club hasn't learned their lesson. 

2/3. Why would you offer Lukaku and not Barkley? Both are first team players. On the balance of probability Barkley would have been offered one too. 

How do you know Barkley wasn't already offered one? How do you know Koeman wasn't just saving face by saying he'll have to earn one. For all we know one was on the table and Barkley wanted more money or more assurances or was saying both those things just to delay and run down his contract. 

Sadly for you my memory stems further than just the actual facts.... I actually recall the posts I made about this at the time.  I'll post them later after I get some work done.

As for the the accusations of not knowing how to debate or whatever deluded  thoughts you seem to have of yourself being an MP I'll leave that alone. Can't be fuckin arsed with you and your "I.Q Smallman syndrome" . 

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https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/national/14971235.everton-contract-talks-with-barkley-not-an-immediate-priority-for-boss-koeman/

Can't even be arsed going into whether koeman wasnt to blame for the Ross situation.... here he is saying Baines holgate and Barry got new contracts and Barkley who had 18 months remaining will wait till new year.  This was December 2016..... one year later he was gone.

When he did get his offer it was a reputed £100k a week.  Sign or be sold was the terms after we had just failed in a bid for Gylfi- the preceding 5 months enduring a never ending chain of koeman barbs in press conferences.

Informed opinion says "after months of being criticised in the press by his manager, he watched 3 other players get new contracts and was told his talks will be in the new year.  I believe the lad felt unwanted and the decision was made to move on.  Do I blame him for not changing his mind after koeman was sacked? Maybe. But the damage was done.  He was getting grief off fans, he had prepared himself to move and that was it". 

Will that do for an informed opinion??? Or doesn't it suit yours? Either way that's my opinion and  there's how I made it. 

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4 minutes ago, hafnia said:

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/national/14971235.everton-contract-talks-with-barkley-not-an-immediate-priority-for-boss-koeman/

Can't even be arsed going into whether koeman wasnt to blame for the Ross situation.... here he is saying Baines holgate and Barry got new contracts and Barkley who had 18 months remaining will wait till new year.  This was December 2016..... one year later he was gone.

When he did get his offer it was a reputed £100k a week.  Sign or be sold was the terms after we had just failed in a bid for Gylfi- the preceding 5 months enduring a never ending chain of koeman barbs in press conferences.

Informed opinion says "after months of being criticised in the press by his manager, he watched 3 other players get new contracts and was told his talks will be in the new year.  I believe the lad felt unwanted and the decision was made to move on.  Do I blame him for not changing his mind after koeman was sacked? Maybe. But the damage was done.  He was getting grief off fans, he had prepared himself to move and that was it". 

Will that do for an informed opinion??? Or doesn't it suit yours? Either way that's my opinion and  there's how I made it. 

So we got everyone else tied down but thought oh Ross is happy waiting. He plays every week but we'll make him earn it. 

Using a sensible head we would have known Spurs etc were sniffing. Why would the club wait to tie him down yet give everyone else a contract. As for Koeman, he's Dutch, he's a coach and wouldn't be arsed about contracts and as such would have had very little to do with them. 

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49 minutes ago, pete0 said:

So we got everyone else tied down but thought oh Ross is happy waiting. He plays every week but we'll make him earn it. 

Using a sensible head we would have known Spurs etc were sniffing. Why would the club wait to tie him down yet give everyone else a contract. As for Koeman, he's Dutch, he's a coach and wouldn't be arsed about contracts and as such would have had very little to do with them. 

Pete.... whatever your opinion is - that is absolutely fine.  I'm not here to change yours or prove I'm right.... cos if I was to tell you that it's 11.41 am and it's daytime you would argue otherwise cos that's what you do.

I will however call out the inconsistencies - not for your benefit either. 

"Using a sensible head"  We are talking about a manager who never gave a player a locker, made him train with kids.  Who more or less publically ridiculed him and told him to find another club.... but he's not bothered about contracts and such?  Seems to me he had a very clear sense of who he wanted on the payroll and didn't want.  I can't imagine how else Cuco Martina ended up at the club 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Pete.... whatever your opinion is - that is absolutely fine.  I'm not here to change yours or prove I'm right.... cos if I was to tell you that it's 11.41 am and it's daytime you would argue otherwise cos that's what you do.

I will however call out the inconsistencies - not for your benefit either. 

"Using a sensible head"  We are talking about a manager who never gave a player a locker, made him train with kids.  Who more or less publically ridiculed him and told him to find another club.... but he's not bothered about contracts and such?  Seems to me he had a very clear sense of who he wanted on the payroll and didn't want.  I can't imagine how else Cuco Martina ended up at the club 

Again belittling because you've got no  actual ability to put a decent well balanced argument. 

What was Steve Walsh's job?

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1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Again belittling because you've got no  actual ability to put a decent well balanced argument. 

What was Steve Walsh's job?

Listen.... I'm gonna leave it at this post cos we are now at the stage where you have gone past calling me trump and telling me I lack the ability to debate, to me actually proving I can.

I've supported my views and been very clear.... we are now at  the final stage of you crying insult over some sort of belittling. Very cyclical.

You may feel belittled but I haven't made you feel belittled by anything other than responding to your challenges.  If me responding and proving that koeman did have a strong influence over who was signed, retained or indeed bullied has made you feel like shite then don't set yourself up for a fall.  

Steve Walsh? Is he the last throw of the dice in the defend koeman from being a prick with players campaign?.  You will be telling me next that Walsh wanted koeman to take away niasse's locker and slate Barkley routinely.

Enjoy the rest of your day. 

 

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8 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Listen.... I'm gonna leave it at this post cos we are now at the stage where you have gone past calling me trump and telling me I lack the ability to debate, to me actually proving I can.

I've supported my views and been very clear.... we are now at  the final stage of you crying insult over some sort of belittling. Very cyclical.

You may feel belittled but I haven't made you feel belittled by anything other than responding to your challenges.  If me responding and proving that koeman did have a strong influence over who was signed, retained or indeed bullied has made you feel like shite then don't set yourself up for a fall.  

Steve Walsh? Is he the last throw of the dice in the defend koeman from being a prick with players campaign?.  You will be telling me next that Walsh wanted koeman to take away niasse's locker and slate Barkley routinely.

Enjoy the rest of your day. 

 

You make me feel bored. You hardly ever respond fully to my 'challenges' or what most people would call simple questions. You don't debate you just shout louder the same shite and strawman away from everything. 

I take the deflection away from Walsh to be your way of saying oh yea we had a bloke whose specific role was to find players and sort out contracts. 

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12 minutes ago, hafnia said:

I already ended the debate matt. It's fuckin tiresome and I should know better by now. 

You never actually debated. You just carried on ranting and belittling. Debating would involve addressing each point which you never do. 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Please Pete.... politely..   Shut the fuck up.  Every fuckin point has been answered.  Bye 

Again shouting louder. You argue like a tory back bencher. No facts and just waffle/strawman away hoping no one notices you never actually addressed anything. 

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If you two don’t stop trying to get the last word in, you’re both getting a time out. I’ve already asked you to take your childish sniping to PM, this is the last warning. 

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City 1 up and have Spurs in the ringer. 

Laporte / Stones look very solid together. Mendy is without doubt the defensive weak link for them. Superb crosser of the ball he isnt a great defender and he isnt great on the ball.

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1-1 martial with another goal. 

Bournemouth so good at home but it looks like Jose has finally managed a way to get his front 3 playing.  Sanchez looks very good as main striker - seems to be like the player he was at Arsenal. 

United will probably end up winning this through martial and Sanchez. 

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United last minute goal.... good game. Bournemouth are very impressive at home.

United loads of fluidity in attack. Loom suspect at the back though. Matic not the player he was. 

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4 hours ago, hafnia said:

United last minute goal.... good game. Bournemouth are very impressive at home.

United loads of fluidity in attack. Loom suspect at the back though. Matic not the player he was. 

Matic is probably being asked to do too much. Fred is a bit of a question mark and Pogba is so erratic. 

I really like watching Bournemouth though. They have a really strong spine to their team and now they adding more quality with players like Fraser and the new lad in midfield whose name escapes me.

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11 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Matic is probably being asked to do too much. Fred is a bit of a question mark and Pogba is so erratic. 

I really like watching Bournemouth though. They have a really strong spine to their team and now they adding more quality with players like Fraser and the new lad in midfield whose name escapes me.

Brooks.

We were after him.

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Untill they bring in the correct video reviewing process then I've no sympathy. 

If I was a manager and my player won a pen through something like that I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  Did we get the benefit of an expert review of martials dive? Swings and roundabouts. 

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47 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Do defenders go and tell the ref when they’ve fouled a player in the area but no penalty was given?

Not the same thing at all for me. What Sterling did was a bit like stubbing your toe on a table leg and blaming the table leg (in this case the pitch); a tackle is contact between two moving people and is always going to be less clear even if it's 99% obvious who was at fault. In this case there's no 1% doubt.

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1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Not the same thing at all for me. What Sterling did was a bit like stubbing your toe on a table leg and blaming the table leg (in this case the pitch); a tackle is contact between two moving people and is always going to be less clear even if it's 99% obvious who was at fault. In this case there's no 1% doubt.

Sterling didn’t even claim for the penalty did he? It’s not his fault the ref was an idiot and Sterling should be under no obligation to do his job for him. 

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Just now, Romey 1878 said:

Sterling didn’t even claim for the penalty did he? It’s not his fault the ref was an idiot and Sterling should be under no obligation to do his job for him. 

I agree to an extent but it'd still be nice to see a bit of sportsmanship every so often. City were always going to win the game so if he'd been honest it wouldn't have cost them, and his personal reputation would have got a huge boost (like de Canio v us incident did).

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10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I agree to an extent but it'd still be nice to see a bit of sportsmanship every so often. City were always going to win the game so if he'd been honest it wouldn't have cost them, and his personal reputation would have got a huge boost (like de Canio v us incident did).

I know what you’re saying but the reaction to it has been so over the top (in the media, not you) and I suspect it’s because of who it is. 

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8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I know what your saying but the reaction to it has been so over the top (in the media, not you) and I suspect it’s because of who it is. 

I've only seen the beeb reaction so don't know about anywhere else, if the man has a dodgy rep he could've done himself a huge favour. Shame. Suspect he regrets it, but a split second decision obviously.

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2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I've only seen the beeb reaction so don't know about anywhere else, if the man has a dodgy rep he could've done himself a huge favour. Shame. Suspect he regrets it, but a split second decision obviously.

The rep is to do with how the media paint him. He can do no right as a person, it’s nothing to do with being a diver. I’m not one for conspiracy theories but there is some weird vendetta against Sterling. 

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9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I've only seen the beeb reaction so don't know about anywhere else, if the man has a dodgy rep he could've done himself a huge favour. Shame. Suspect he regrets it, but a split second decision obviously.

It doesn't matter what he does.  The media are a disgrace towards this lad. 

It's a racism/class thing.  Not nice.   

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9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Or winning the league next year...

:lol: 

He won't still be there to make that happen. He really is a terrible manager. That whole Leicester episode is bizarre when you look at the majority of his CV.

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2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

He won't still be there to make that happen. He really is a terrible manager. That whole Leicester episode is bizarre when you look at the majority of his CV.

He did well at Nantes after he left Leicester.  He got them 5th or 7th I believe.  They are a tiny club, I used to follow them because they had an American (Alejandro bedoya) playing for them.

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3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

He did well at Nantes after he left Leicester.  He got them 5th or 7th I believe.  They are a tiny club, I used to follow them because they had an American (Alejandro bedoya) playing for them.

9th, they finished 7th the season before he took over so he took them backwards in fact.

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I see it going 2 ways. 

 

1. Nothing really changes because as Romey says he isnt a particularly great manager and they go down.

2. He could tighten up their defence being a defensive coach when he was at Leicester plus his Italian roots and make them hard to beat. If he did that they they have plenty of attacking talent to win them some games against the odds. I dont know how the other sides he managed have played but if he could stop them leaking goals left right and centre then given how bad some of the other teams around them are, he could get them out of it.

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2 hours ago, MikeO said:

9th, they finished 7th the season before he took over so he took them backwards in fact.

Thanks mike.  He had them 3rd at one point, seems the wheels came off later on.  

 

Regardless his defensive first approach could benefit them.  Pulis did decently for a long time with that mentality.

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14 minutes ago, MikeO said:

VAR coming in next season, heard this on the radio hours ago, surprised nobody's mentioned it!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46224473

terrible decision, it will be the same outcomes except people will be even more outraged because of the video review.  american sports have extensive video review and still routinely get it wrong.  

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5 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

terrible decision, it will be the same outcomes except people will be even more outraged because of the video review.  american sports have extensive video review and still routinely get it wrong.  

I can't see it being any worse than it is now.  We get the rough end so often.  The likes of Liverpool and United will suffer most imo

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2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Plenty of effort from your side but not a lot of quality. 

Pulisic is the only one who looks capable of creating anything at the moment. I take solace in the fact that it's a very young squad with not a lot of experience.

We're severely lacking in the striker and left-back department too.

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5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

terrible decision, it will be the same outcomes except people will be even more outraged because of the video review.  american sports have extensive video review and still routinely get it wrong.  

You probably didn't watch it but there was a late video decision in the last two England rugby union games and I would argue one was wrong and the other was debatable but what it did do was taint the conclusion of the games especially as the two decisions were marginal to say the least.

Based on what we saw in the WC I have no faith in the referees reviewing the game and coming to the right decision.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

You probably didn't watch it but there was a late video decision in the last two England rugby union games and I would argue one was wrong and the other was debatable but what it did do was taint the conclusion of the games especially as the two decisions were marginal to say the least.

Based on what we saw in the WC I have no faith in the referees reviewing the game and coming to the right decision.

Yeah, I get that the big club bias makes people think it will magically go away, but the fact is humans are infallible and make mistakes.  adrenaline pumping heat is the moment decision are no different.

 

i wish they kept it as is and just hired better referees from abroad.

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7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Yeah, I get that the big club bias makes people think it will magically go away, but the fact is humans are infallible and make mistakes.  adrenaline pumping heat is the moment decision are no different.

 

i wish they kept it as is and just hired better referees from abroad.

Like the referees from abroad at the WC that were fucking awful? Doesn't matter where they come from imo, most of them are shockingly bad.

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