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I personslly don't think Gibson would get the nod over Barry and McCarthy because McCarthy is obviously part of Martinez's bigger picture and Barry is a very very important cog. That's not to say I don't think he should get in - I do.

 

The reference to Gerrard was to show that there are players operating in the same formation, who can do two jobs. Rather than having two "water carriers".

 

Gerrard isn't even half the player he was and is still performing well above McCarthy, McCarthy hasn't half the assists or goals. But yes I agree it was an unfair comparison aimed at proving a point rather than judging player like for like.

in terms of fitness yes, but his experience is massive, in and around the highest level. Remeber that he started off much further forward in his younger days and has only moved back because hes slowing down and they have other players to do the box to box / AMC role. Because he started there, he can perform both roles. McCarthy has always played DMC to my knowledge and is only 23. Him playing next to Barry is more an investment in his long term development, learning from another CM who has played in and around the highest level.

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I think you might see Gibson and Barry sitting next season and McCarthy playing the "Gerrard" role further forward. I think Roberto has alluded to this previously that McCarthy can play there and score goals. I think that may have been in his thinking this season which would have given us options between Ross,McCarthy and Ossie. With so many premiership games under his belt, he is well up to speed regarding tactics, positional play and experience. Obviously a future captain in the next three seasons once the old guard have gone. That's if we manage to keep him

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No offence but I think all that highlights is your level of understanding the game. He's a water carrier - thats what they do. Maybe he will get a bit more adventurous with his play but at the moment its not his job.

 

Did Roy Keane create goals or offer a goal threat for United - no, he averaged 4 goals a season - he totalled 6 assists in 5 years from 2000 onwards... But maybe you seen him as a spare man?

Scored the vital one away to Juve in 1999, dragged his team to the final even knowing he was unable to play in it, massive respect for Keane after that game. If Jimmy Mac is going to be halve Keano's pedigree I will be well happy for him and we are going to have a little gem there.

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With Barry and McCarthy in the same side I think we lack an extra body in the final third. I can't make my mind up on him. He works hard, plays simple balls here and there but there's no creativity or goal threat. I don't dislike him I'm just trying to see the benefit of the two defensive minded players when we are going forward. If he had a goal in his locker or better vision he'd be all there but I personally don't ever see him gaining either of those skills. Sometimes I just see him as the spare man.

 

 

No it's my opinion on him. No cutting edge. We already have the exact same player in Barry.

 

Don't get me wrong he's neat and tidy and is a good footballer. If he had a goal in him though he'd be very very good. The problem I have is that Barry is more important in there and they are both cut from the same cloth in terms of positioning. For that reason alone I think we lack a goalscoring central midfielder.

 

You must have missed the beautifully weighted pass that he played out to Naismith on the counter which was perfectly into his stride and would have allowed him to get a shot on goal if he had any pace... Or the ball for Lukaku's goal against Soton... His quality in the final third and specifically his ability to pick a pass is vastly underrated IMO.

 

Gibson isnt half the player of Barry or McCarthy and it amazes me that you cant see that. Much worse passing range, narrower vision, less energy and far inferior defensive ability.

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You must have missed the beautifully weighted pass that he played out to Naismith on the counter which was perfectly into his stride and would have allowed him to get a shot on goal if he had any pace... Or the ball for Lukaku's goal against Soton... His quality in the final third and specifically his ability to pick a pass is vastly underrated IMO.

 

Gibson isnt half the player of Barry or McCarthy and it amazes me that you cant see that. Much worse passing range, narrower vision, less energy and far inferior defensive ability.

You must have missed the beautifully weighted pass that he played out to Naismith on the counter which was perfectly into his stride and would have allowed him to get a shot on goal if he had any pace... Or the ball for Lukaku's goal against Soton... His quality in the final third and specifically his ability to pick a pass is vastly underrated IMO.

 

Gibson isnt half the player of McCarthy and it amazes me that you cant see that. Much worse passing range, narrower vision, less energy and far inferior defensive ability.

Don't agree with the bold tbh. Gibson is a fantastic midfielder. Proved last season.

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Describe something that's made McCarthy look fantastic?

have I missed something, because I can't see anyone saying he's fantastic. :dont know:

 

For me, he is a cracking player who will be fantastic, but at the moment he's still very young, and has 10 more years at the highest level ahead of him.

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Don't agree with the bold tbh. Gibson is a fantastic midfielder. Proved last season.

Darron Gibson last season got 1 league goal and 2 assists. Is that the creative, goal scoring midfielder you want McCarthy to be?

 

McCarthy by the way already has 3 league assists this season. McCarthy had also had 19 shots for us, in around the same amount of games last season Gibson had 14.

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Don't agree with the bold tbh. Gibson is a fantastic midfielder. Proved last season.

Also... McCarthy passing accuracy is 86%, Gibson last season was 81%.

 

The average passing range is very similar.

 

What about shot accuracy? McCarthy is 44%, Gibson was 18%

 

Duals won? Very important for a CM...McCarthy 52%, Gibson 43%.

 

Chances created? McCarthy 29...Gibson 27.

 

All the above is with just about the same games played.

 

I like Gibson. But I cant agree that he is so much better than McCarthy. And thats plain to see.

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Describe something thats made Gibson look fantastic?

Gibson was described as half the player of McCarthy.

 

There's thing with those stats you can't see. For example how many of those passes of McCarthys have been forward passes rather than simple 2 yard ones?

 

Also takes into account McCarthy is rather toothless infront of goal with that many shots.

 

Because you left it out I'd presume Gibsons passing range is better than Mccarthys and doesn't suit you agenda.

 

Also in terms of chances created and shots. Gibson was our deep midfielder last season. It was usually osman who partnered him. This season It's Barry in that role.

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Gibson was described as half the player of McCarthy.

 

There's thing with those stats you can't see. For example how many of those passes of McCarthys have been forward passes rather than simple 2 yard ones?

 

Also takes into account McCarthy is rather toothless infront of goal with that many shots.

 

Because you left it out I'd presume Gibsons passing range is better than Mccarthys and doesn't suit you agenda.

 

Also in terms of chances created and shots. Gibson was our deep midfielder last season. It was usually osman who partnered him. This season It's Barry in that role.

Hahahahahaha....I have an agenda????

 

Hahahahahaha!!!! WTF?!!!!

 

The passing range....on average, Gibson was 22 metres, McCarthy 20 metres. You can see why I left it out?

 

As for the deep midfielder comment...now you are taking the piss.

 

Game over.

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Hahahahahaha....I have an agenda????

 

Hahahahahaha!!!! WTF?!!!!

 

The passing range....on average, Gibson was 22 metres, McCarthy 20 metres. You can see why I left it out?

 

As for the deep midfielder comment...now you are taking the piss.

 

Game over.

For you yes,

 

Gibson was the sitter.

 

By those stats it looks as though McCarthy is trying to be a box to box midfielder but he just doesn't have the makeup yet.

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Haven't been reading the thread, but just to reassert my general views on the player - he's very talented, and intelligent too. In fact his understanding of the game probably outweighs his actual ability.

 

Just pissed off he will be facing Scotland rather than lining up for us. Not particularly bothered about McGeady these days - we have enough promising wingers - but I wish we had McCarthy.

 

Looked on this page - no idea what's going on in here but a player like McCarthy won't be quantified in stats. And Bailey is right - Gibson is very average and certainly not of the calibre of McCarthy or Barry.

Edited by Nikica
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Gibson was described as half the player of McCarthy.

 

There's thing with those stats you can't see. For example how many of those passes of McCarthys have been forward passes rather than simple 2 yard ones?

 

Also takes into account McCarthy is rather toothless infront of goal with that many shots.

 

Because you left it out I'd presume Gibsons passing range is better than Mccarthys and doesn't suit you agenda.

 

Also in terms of chances created and shots. Gibson was our deep midfielder last season. It was usually osman who partnered him. This season It's Barry in that role.

 

I get the feeling you're the sort of person who thinks Sergio Busquets is average.

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Don't do it....don't get dragged in. Two bastard nights in a row I've wasted trying to do this!

 

You start off paddling with the fella, before you know it your in knee deep and he's teabagging you!

 

Ha, It's nothing personal with the guy - I'm sure he's a top guy.

 

However, just from the way he talks, he seems like someone who expects midfielders to be the 'box to box' type who are all-action and involved in both final thirds. I don't really think he has much liking for understated holding players whose game cannot be quantified by goal and assist stats, and who don't go steaming into tackles.

 

It's just the feeling I get from reading this page, which to be fair is the only page I have read.

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Nikica,

 

The point I was making was the pairing we have in the middle. IMO we would be a much better side with one of those sitters who can sway from defensive duties to attack depending on the way the games going. Other sides around us have those type of players. Our two midfield players - neither are box to box midfielders. Liverpool have Gerrard . Spurs have Dembele. Chelsea have Lampard and Ramires etc etc.

Edited by MiguelCotto
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Nikica,

 

The point I was making was the pairing we have in the middle. IMO we would be a much better side with one of those sitters who can sway from defensive duties to attack depending on the way the games going. Other sides around us have those type of players. Our two midfield players - neither are box to box midfielders. Liverpool have Gerrard . Spurs have Dembele. Chelsea have Lampard and Ramires etc etc.

 

That's a fair point, as some deep sitting midfielders are worth their weight in gold when they can dribble past a man and take him out of the gamr to create space. Wilshere when he plays deeper and Dembele are especially great at that.

 

I think you're looking at it too simplistically though. Barry and McCarthy aren't really the same type of player, despite the fact that much of what they do has a similar end result. There's lots of different types of midfielders - I don't think you can generalise them both as 'sitters'.

 

McCarthy seems somewhat more energetic, reads the game well, and links play. Barry is more of your sitting tempo setter - he gets the ball from the CBs and creates the pace of the game. He plays a lot of passes which are intended to retain possession and retain control of the game.

 

The mistake I think you're making is that you're bogged down with this view that of two midfielders one must be good going forward. Firstly, you're not really playing with two midfielders - the guy in front of them is generally the link between those two at the base and the attack. That's usually someone like Osman or Barkley. For your system to flourish, you need a base of two very adept holding players, with complementary skills. They provide that base and defensive solidity, and then the guy in front of them links the play to the forward and inverted wingers. In your system you have four players and the full-backs bombing on in front of them, which is generally plenty to create opportunities and score goals, if those players are of high enough quality (they are).

 

Bear in mind also the critical role that a double pivot plays in covering for Baines and Coleman - those guys are able to get forward so much precisely because McCarthy and Barry generally hold, fill in and snuff out counter-attacks when you lose the ball when attacking. This is perfect for a DM because their interception and distribution skills are generally excellent so they're the best players to cut out these attacks and then set the team going again.

 

Overall, I'm saying that you don't need one of them to attack. Alonso and Busquets start for Spain as a double pivot and neither of them attack - they're a base which provides the other players with the freedom to go forward. Alonso admittedly has the added dimension of switching play with a diagonal, but then that's what Gibson can provide if he ever plays.

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Read some of this - it might alter your perspective. Even if it does not, go into it with an open mind:

 

http://arsenalcolumn.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/why-are-two-holding-midfielders-so-crucial-in-the-modern-game/

 

It's extensive and at times pretentious and obsessive in its tactical clarity, but pay attention especially to the conclusion and the claims that a double pivot (the two holding players) will shuffle wide to mark the inverted wingers - that's what I referred to above there.

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Guest blueboy122

Don't understand all this Gibson is useless talk on here.

 

Gibson was excellent for us last season and a real plus when we signed him from Man United.

 

Be interesting to see where Gibson fits into the team when he is fit.

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Don't understand all this Gibson is useless talk on here.

 

Gibson was excellent for us last season and a real plus when we signed him from Man United.

 

Be interesting to see where Gibson fits into the team when he is fit.

No one has said he's useless, just that McCarthy and Barry are both better options.

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That's untrue though. Based on what as you have seen him once or twice in this new side?

cant really judge him on that since hes barely played. The other 2 however, have received plaudits most of the season. Who would you chose if Gibson was match fit tomorrow?

Edited by Matt
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