Peter H Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Couldn't have said it better myself. The team can't even buy a clean sheet (let alone anything else) atm, and Heitinga seems to be part of the issue. Undoubtedly he has immense quality on his day, but its been a long time since I've thought he wasn't a liability at CB compared to Jagielka or Distin. He has not exactly been playing a lot so its mostly Distin and Jags that havent been keeping clean sheets. With a little help from Howard and the rest of the team. What is it? 4 starts from Heits? Ok, blame 4 games without a clean sheet on him then. He is an excellent player, shame to let him go. All of the crap about him wanting to leave, is that from journalists or from him directly? All I see coming from him are great comments on twitter and he always ends his post game tweets with COYB's He often writes about how proud he is to be a part of Everton. I want him here, more than I want Lescott here. I do however want him on form. pete0 and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 He has not exactly been playing a lot so its mostly Distin and Jags that havent been keeping clean sheets. With a little help from Howard and the rest of the team. What is it? 4 starts from Heits? Ok, blame 4 games without a clean sheet on him then. He is an excellent player, shame to let him go. All of the crap about him wanting to leave, is that from journalists or from him directly? All I see coming from him are great comments on twitter and he always ends his post game tweets with COYB's He often writes about how proud he is to be a part of Everton. I want him here, more than I want Lescott here. I do however want him on form. Im a proud Evertonian that finishes most of my tweets with COYB, can I have £60k a week please? http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2013/01/04/howard-kendall-john-heitinga-not-reliable-enough-for-central-defence-at-the-moment-100252-32543123/ Seems Kendall doesnt rate him thios season either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 We go on about him being the best ball playing defender we have, but all i see are long diagonal balls. i dont see this ball playing. and this season those diagional balls are not getting anywhere near the target. In fact watch the match against newcastle and you will find our young under-achiever Anichebe had a stormer when he came on and spent most of the match using his physical strenght to salvage bad ball after bad ball. You can always tell a good long ball. it hits the open space in front of your taget to run onto and collect, or it hits the yard space around your target. Anichebe had ro run backwards or sidewards 5 yards to retrieve each ball. Jags on the other hand is making a great effort this season to find the feet of a midfield player. and that is the reason i think Heits is struggling. we are not playing his style of football this season. He has good positioning skills, but these are sometimes let down by bad decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Im a proud Evertonian that finishes most of my tweets with COYB, can I have £60k a week please? http://www.liverpool...00252-32543123/ Seems Kendall doesnt rate him thios season either We could do with better reviews if we're selling him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 We could do with better reviews if we're selling him. Heitinga's defending is nearly as suspect as Kendall's opinion these days (sad to say). Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Heitinga's defending is nearly as suspect as Kendall's opinion these days (sad to say). I stopped listening to Howard Kendall some time during the 80's. For me, he was a successful manager first time round and decent player, but I'm not of the 'eternally grateful club' and though it might be controversial, it annoys me a bit that ex-Evertonians are still drinking on the clubs tab, so to speak. Why they can't leave on a high, and stay as a fond memory instead of becoming annoying is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouse Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 you cant really judge Heitinga and is has not had a run of games to build up form like Jags and Distin have, as said Moyes likes left foot right foot pairing and Jags is slightly better than Heitinga on his day. unless Jags is injured Heintinga sadly wont play so if 7 mill is mooted and 3 mill for Gauye i would take them both. chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Get Heitinga out while Distin is near retirement? What are you going to do, line up Jags and Duffy and hope none gets injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 John Heitinga @Johnheitinga Monday #facup. Hopefully the first step to even a better achievement as last season #COYB #Everton #Wembley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 John Heitinga @Johnheitinga Monday #facup. Hopefully the first step to even a better achievement as last season #COYB #Everton #Wembley On the other hand i love this about him. he does seem to love the club doesnt he. Ok how do we get him back to the form he had last season? an extended run? confidence boost? i bet moyes is scratching his head on this one. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 John Heitinga @Johnheitinga Monday #facup. Hopefully the first step to even a better achievement as last season #COYB #Everton #Wembley This is the exact thing i was talking about. Yes he really seems to love the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 On the other hand i love this about him. he does seem to love the club doesnt he. Ok how do we get him back to the form he had last season? an extended run? confidence boost? i bet moyes is scratching his head on this one. It's down to Heitinga to re-gain form, regardless of playing time. He is a squad member, and not a special case. Re-gain form, or sit on the bench; it's an easy enough scenario. The main thing is to take your chance when you get it. We can't be mollycoddling these guys. They're paid an enormous amount to be at the top of their game. You dust off the cobwebs in training, or the reserves, but a matchday is for those who are ready, and not for those who aren't. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 It's down to Heitinga to re-gain form, regardless of playing time. He is a squad member, and not a special case. Re-gain form, or sit on the bench; it's an easy enough scenario. The main thing is to take your chance when you get it. We can't be mollycoddling these guys. They're paid an enormous amount to be at the top of their game. You dust off the cobwebs in training, or the reserves, but a matchday is for those who are ready, and not for those who aren't. I agree with this, but other players do seem to get more of a chance when they're in bad form. It should be the same for every player, no matter who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I agree with this, but other players do seem to get more of a chance when they're in bad form. It should be the same for every player, no matter who they are. This. I like Heitinga, always have, one of my favourite moments was him ghosting ashley cole on the way up to take his penalty in the cup, which cole then missed. Typical of his attitude, which doesn't always fit the enviroment granted. Distin though has been in good form lately, so has jagielka, so unless we play 3 at the back and use seamus and baines as wing backs (which I personally think would see us score more goals), he's gonna have to work hard to earn a starting place anyway...But, Moyes does have favourites, and sometimes he'll choose people even when they're injured or not match fit when there are other options. He played rodwell last season in right midfield when he'd literally just come back from injury, and had to take him off because he re-injured himself. Those sorts of decisions would wind any player up if it meant losing your place, but I think he recognises we've got 3 quality center halves at the club, and he's one of them. If we had 4 it might be easier to partner and rotate, and I'm really hopeful Duffy develops into a player that could give us that option without having to buy. If Heitinga goes, hopefully it will be in the same vein as bily and we'll use the cash to strengthen. We lost Rodwell, but we got Mirallas and Pienaar back. If we lost Heitinga but got Lescott on loan and bought 1 or 2 others I'd see it as good business. Same if we didn't and kept him because I think he's a good player. Win-win for me. Plus we've had this before plenty of times with news stories of disgruntled players when really all they ever say is "I love everton, but I'd love to play in (insert country/specific team/specific league) one day". Nothing wrong with that, it just gets rehashed and turn into gossip to get attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hey Reg, not seen you in yonks. All Ok I hope? Heits can have an extended run easily enough you just drop Distin or Jags to play him. So who should we drop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 The latest rumors are talking about Ajax selling Alderweireld to Arsenal, so they would be focusing on Heitinga to replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoblue Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I really like Heitinga, but his form is absolutely attrocious right now. Only ball in the air he has Any chance of winning is if it's completely uncontested. Absolute liability right now and I don't think Jags or Distin trust him, which leads to them trying to cover and getting sucked out of possition. If decent money was on the table I'd be one to gamble on shipping him out and bringing someone else in. Something needs to change at the back and it won't be Baines, Jags, Distin or Coleman. Cheltenham would be a good time to see Duffy again with either Sylvain or Jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Lets play the blame game for the goals conceded in our last 3 matches. Heitinga and Distin's to blame for the Newc goal. Jags was suspect for both Chelsea goals. Distin for the Wigan. Result: Heitinga .5 Distin 1.5 Jags 2 Although goals conceded per minute is about 70 mins for Jags with 1.7 points per game and Distin (1.6 points), and 60 mins for Heitinga with 1.8 points per game. Not a huge difference considering he has been in and out the team, yet Jags hasn't been dropped at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) I agree, Johnny is playing without confidence or passion and is destabalising influence on our defence. Comparing stats of who concedes goals in games is with respect telling only part of a story as you have to take into account who they were playing, errors by players in front of them who gave away chances and individual mistakes by defenders leading to goals. Everytime I have seen Heitinger play this season he has looked nervy and his partner has looked even more nervy playing alongside him. Better get him off the wage bill, and free up money.If we can do a Yobbo and loan him out anf free up some money to pay for a loan deal. Lescott, although I favour giving Duffy a run as he has looked good when he has played, I would go for another ball playing CM to cover Gibson. Edited January 4, 2013 by London Blue chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Is he really playing as bad as everybody says, or are we hyping it up too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 saw the Newcastle game, and although he, Dustbin and Baines were at fault for their goal he got turned so easily by their striker several times and his positioning was very poor. He was good on the ball tho, passing was better than Jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Lets play the blame game for the goals conceded in our last 3 matches. Heitinga and Distin's to blame for the Newc goal. Jags was suspect for both Chelsea goals. Distin for the Wigan. Result: Heitinga .5 Distin 1.5 Jags 2 Although goals conceded per minute is about 70 mins for Jags with 1.7 points per game and Distin (1.6 points), and 60 mins for Heitinga with 1.8 points per game. Not a huge difference considering he has been in and out the team, yet Jags hasn't been dropped at all. Lol talk about manipulating stats to say what you want! Is he really playing as bad as everybody says, or are we hyping it up too much? Worse! He is getting turned inside out everytim he plays, Wigan away when Kone ripped him to pieces for 45 minutes and Coles goal at West Ham spring to mind. I love Johnny H, well last seasons version anyway, but he is unrecogniseable from that player this season I hope Im wrong but he just looks like a player that has had his head turned and wants away so I would be surprised if he is here this time next month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Is he really playing as bad as everybody says, or are we hyping it up too much? Just a little! He played very well against Chelsea which seems to have been forgotten. He hasnt played well so far this season, but Distin has gone from mercurial to sunday league from week to week and while Jags has been more consistent than the other two, he too was dodgy earlier in the season as well. We have 3 quality CB's who for whatever reason are consistently not playing consistently. I think a lot of it has to do with our weakness through the centre of midfield and the fact that we havent really had a regular back 4. One of them needs to step up a be a leader. They all seem to be looking at each other instead of looking at themselves. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Lol talk about manipulating stats to say what you want! Worse! He is getting turned inside out everytim he plays, Wigan away when Kone ripped him to pieces for 45 minutes and Coles goal at West Ham spring to mind. I love Johnny H, well last seasons version anyway, but he is unrecogniseable from that player this season I hope Im wrong but he just looks like a player that has had his head turned and wants away so I would be surprised if he is here this time next month Where's the manipulation? As for the Wigan game the blame should be more on Moyes, as Distin should have started to combat Kone's pace. Centre half is a position where you need a good run of games or your partner to at least be performing. He had neithe, only played 2 minutes in the previous 4 games before the West Ham game and it was Distin's poor tackle in the build up has to take part of the blame. What's Jagielka's excuse for not being any better and still tallying in clangers? How's his head been turned, just look at his Twitter account or do you really think some rags a more reliable source than the man himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Just a little! He played very well against Chelsea which seems to have been forgotten. He hasnt played well so far this season, but Distin has gone from mercurial to sunday league from week to week and while Jags has been more consistent than the other two, he too was dodgy earlier in the season as well. We have 3 quality CB's who for whatever reason are consistently not playing consistently. I think a lot of it has to do with our weakness through the centre of midfield and the fact that we havent really had a regular back 4. One of them needs to step up a be a leader. They all seem to be looking at each other instead of looking at themselves. Agree with all that, I also think Gibson is a big miss as he usually sits just infront of the back four and sweeps up a lot of stuff before it gets that far and we dont seem to have anybody else that can do that, apart from Felli who is deployed elsewhere these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Where's the manipulation? As for the Wigan game the blame should be more on Moyes, as Distin should have started to combat Kone's pace. Centre half is a position where you need a good run of games or your partner to at least be performing. He had neithe, only played 2 minutes in the previous 4 games before the West Ham game and it was Distin's poor tackle in the build up has to take part of the blame. What's Jagielka's excuse for not being any better and still tallying in clangers? How's his head been turned, just look at his Twitter account or do you really think some rags a more reliable source than the man himself? Why only the last 3 games, especially as you are blaming Jags for both Chelsea goals? I dont want to get into an argument as we obviously see football totally differently but on one hand your saying its Moyse's fault for not playing him more and on the other your saying its Moyse,s fault for playing him at all. Kone has pace yes, but so do most Premiership sides these days All three of our CBs have had dips in form but Jags is the man who knits it all together, he is the talker / organiser even when he isnt on top form himself he still offers something more than the other 2. Even with Distin, I always think there is a mistake waiting to happen, but even when he isnt at it he still offers pace and power and is good in the air not to mention he is left footed so offers more balance. In an ideal world an inform Jags and and inform Hietinga would be superb but Johnny has been woeful this season. He is getting raped every time he steps on the pitch, he is costing us goals left right and centre. Howard rightly took stick for the Norwich goal but what was Hietinga doing ducking underneth the cross? There was a time when he was dominating the likes of Drogba and Rooney but this season he is getting bullied by the likes of Kone, Carlton Cole and Grant Holt which just isnt good enough. All players have dips in form and I dont think Johhny H has become a bad player overnight but the fact is he isnt good enough this season for Everton Football Club, Duffy would be a better shout, hense why i think his head has gone and he wants a move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Why only the last 3 games, especially as you are blaming Jags for both Chelsea goals? I dont want to get into an argument as we obviously see football totally differently but on one hand your saying its Moyse's fault for not playing him more and on the other your saying its Moyse,s fault for playing him at all. Kone has pace yes, but so do most Premiership sides these days All three of our CBs have had dips in form but Jags is the man who knits it all together, he is the talker / organiser even when he isnt on top form himself he still offers something more than the other 2. Even with Distin, I always think there is a mistake waiting to happen, but even when he isnt at it he still offers pace and power and is good in the air not to mention he is left footed so offers more balance. In an ideal world an inform Jags and and inform Hietinga would be superb but Johnny has been woeful this season. He is getting raped every time he steps on the pitch, he is costing us goals left right and centre. Howard rightly took stick for the Norwich goal but what was Hietinga doing ducking underneth the cross? There was a time when he was dominating the likes of Drogba and Rooney but this season he is getting bullied by the likes of Kone, Carlton Cole and Grant Holt which just isnt good enough. All players have dips in form and I dont think Johhny H has become a bad player overnight but the fact is he isnt good enough this season for Everton Football Club, Duffy would be a better shout, hense why i think his head has gone and he wants a move Jags isn't a rock, him and Distin is the worst pairing the clubs had in the last decade, an absolute shambles together last season. Imagine the Wigan game had Distin started along with Johnny, they'd had been no problem. Jags-Heitinga was a awful decision from the manager, players have different strengths and weaknesses and Heitinga proved last season he is the one with the most strengths. How has Heitinga been any worst than the other 2? Two cleam sheets isn't good enough and the constant is Jagielka, the obvious thing to do would be to drop him give Distin-Heitinga a proper chance. Edited January 5, 2013 by pete0 SimonButtle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Jags isn't a rock, him and Distin is the worst pairing the clubs had in the last decade, an absolute shambles together last season. Imagine the Wigan game had Distin started along with Johnny, they'd had been no problem. Jags-Heitinga was a awful decision from the manager, players have different strengths and weaknesses and Heitinga proved last season he is the one with the most strengths. How has Heitinga been any worst than the other 2? Two cleam sheets isn't good enough and the constant is Jagielka, the obvious thing to do would be to drop him give Distin-Heitinga a proper chance. Thats probably why your not the manager and Moyes is, Heitinga is a liability this season and you think the obvious thinng to do is play him more chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Heitinga seems to be getting all the blame for a series of defensive errors from all of them. Imo i don't think any of the the 3 make a particularly great partnership, and as chief shouty person at the back, Howard has had some shocking performances this season as well. I do think Jonny has been crap when he has appeared but to place wholesale blame ala Kendall on a guy who has mostly been getting 15-20 mins in each game is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Heitinga seems to be getting all the blame for a series of defensive errors from all of them. Imo i don't think any of the the 3 make a particularly great partnership, and as chief shouty person at the back, Howard has had some shocking performances this season as well. I do think Jonny has been crap when he has appeared but to place wholesale blame ala Kendall on a guy who has mostly been getting 15-20 mins in each game is crazy. The problem is Heitinga is getting torn apart by very average centre forwards At Wigan he was giving Kone all the time and space in the world to run at him and he just couldnt live with him, Carlton Cole was doing the same to him at West Ham and it happened at Newcastle. He seems to be standing off too much then getting turned inside out as a result. He has also had a bad habit of ducking under crosses which cost us against Norwich at home, he did the same against Spurs I think it was when they him the post and did the same at Newcastle a couple of times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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