Shukes Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I agree..Stones isnt our best defender. He probably will be one day and he is without doubt one of our best prospects. But he isn't our best defender. How cost is reflective on his age and promise just as much as ability. If he was 30 would we be offered 50m for him? Edited August 8, 2016 by Shukes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 What do you mean low? Sorry, I mean (IMO) he's really not as bad as you stated in your reply to Paddock. I admit he's been caught out on occasions for being 'too cool' under pressure but as you state he is young and probably should be allowed some leniency when it comes to his age (when he's 25 and STILL making those errors, i'll retract my view on him). His footballing ability for a CB is incredible and has all the attributes of a top, top player. I saw signs of the old Stones against United, one that hoofs it when there's no other option. He was reverting back to a 'proper' defender at last. His heading is fine, if you compare him to other young CB's of a similar ilk (like Smalling (who has improved tenfold in the last 12 months)), I still think Stones on a higher trajectory than Smalling ever will be. He IS very different to the likes of Jagielka and similar(ish) to Mori but that's why we have defensive partnerships, players who compliment one another. So comparing him to the other defenders (IMO) isn't a true reflection of his ability as a player. I couldn't call out who's our 'best' defender, as I believe all three (Jags, John & Mori) are very different in style and whilst some offer characteristics a lot of fans like (old school defending), the others may offer something completely different, which the remaining fans may think better suits them to the modern game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 here's a question...... how much value does it add to the team having a "footballer" as a centre half? for me the priority of the things you want in a centre half are:- 1. Mentality:- concentration/reading of the game/leadership - helps intercept, organise, concentrates and doesn't ball watch 2. athleticism (pace, strength, aerial ability) - able to get there and compete against the striker 3. tackling - timing and accuracy 4. composure - remaining calm on the ball 5. passing ability - get the ball out to one of our players Stones excels in the lesser priority attributes for me.... the ones that kinda look good on the telly. Mentally he is all over the place at times, he is a bit weak and in the air his timing is off. We can get better players in for the key attributes for less. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 here's a question...... how much value does it add to the team having a "footballer" as a centre half? for me the priority of the things you want in a centre half are:- 1. Mentality:- concentration/reading of the game/leadership - helps intercept, organise, concentrates and doesn't ball watch 2. athleticism (pace, strength, aerial ability) - able to get there and compete against the striker 3. tackling - timing and accuracy 4. composure - remaining calm on the ball 5. passing ability - get the ball out to one of our players Stones excels in the lesser priority attributes for me.... the ones that kinda look good on the telly. Mentally he is all over the place at times, he is a bit weak and in the air his timing is off. We can get better players in for the key attributes for less. I'd agree with most of that, but his mentality is surely down to his mismanagement and, to an extent, the grief from some of our idiot supporters? Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 here's a question...... how much value does it add to the team having a "footballer" as a centre half? for me the priority of the things you want in a centre half are:- 1. Mentality:- concentration/reading of the game/leadership - helps intercept, organise, concentrates and doesn't ball watch 2. athleticism (pace, strength, aerial ability) - able to get there and compete against the striker 3. tackling - timing and accuracy 4. composure - remaining calm on the ball 5. passing ability - get the ball out to one of our players Stones excels in the lesser priority attributes for me.... the ones that kinda look good on the telly. Mentally he is all over the place at times, he is a bit weak and in the air his timing is off. We can get better players in for the key attributes for less. Spot on, haf you been on a roll lately. We'll be fine without him, Ron will cut out the defensive mistakes or replace the guys that can't. Stones being one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 I'd agree with most of that, but his mentality is surely down to his mismanagement and, to an extent, the grief from some of our idiot supporters? I think he's always been a bit of a loose cannon and "arrogant" with the ball. Part of me admires that - his cheeky penno and his ability to take the ball out. But his cryuff turns at the park end when being closed down indicated the player - not the manager who had the problem. He could end up being the best player ever... I just don't think he will. There isn't that much between him and Funes Mori - If Funes Mori was English he would be well touted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I think he's always been a bit of a loose cannon and "arrogant" with the ball. Part of me admires that - his cheeky penno and his ability to take the ball out. But his cryuff turns at the park end when being closed down indicated the player - not the manager who had the problem. He could end up being the best player ever... I just don't think he will. There isn't that much between him and Funes Mori - If Funes Mori was English he would be well touted. To me it was a sign of the manager who had told him to not lose possession not matter what being drummed home and over-riding his defensive instincts, but we'll never know. Edited August 8, 2016 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Stones has ability, yes, but he makes more mistakes out of any first team defender because he's young, inexperienced, has poor decision making (due to the first two reasons), arrogant, and can't jump or head a ball for shit. If Stones was 30 and exactly the same ability he wouldn't start over Jags or Funes. On the field he is certainly not our best defender and I'm truly amazed you don't see that. I'm amazed that you can't see that he has all the atributes to be one of the best defenders in the world tbh Aiden. How many top strikers has he marked out of games at the age of 21? A lot more than mistakes he's made. Jagielka makes more mistakes than Stones and Mori gets caught out of position more times than Stones. Add to this Martinez had us defending shambolically and told Stones to take the chances and be arrogant and once a proper coach coaches him right he'll be a top player. That's why clubs are lining up to pay 40 million for a 21 year old centre half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 In fairness Martinez made him into the player he is in those first couple of seasons and allowed him to flourish... The problem was the players in front of him stopped defending (because if Martinez too) and I don't care how good you are you are going to get exposed and that knocked his confidence and its been downhill since then. When he focuses on his defending he is still a bloody good defender and he has the potential to be one of the greatest in our time. He has plenty of time to get there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 In fairness Martinez made him into the player he is in those first couple of seasons and allowed him to flourish... The problem was the players in front of him stopped defending (because if Martinez too) and I don't care how good you are you are going to get exposed and that knocked his confidence and its been downhill since then. When he focuses on his defending he is still a bloody good defender and he has the potential to be one of the greatest in our time. He has plenty of time to get there too. good to have you back mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 here's a question...... how much value does it add to the team having a "footballer" as a centre half? for me the priority of the things you want in a centre half are:- 1. Mentality:- concentration/reading of the game/leadership - helps intercept, organise, concentrates and doesn't ball watch 2. athleticism (pace, strength, aerial ability) - able to get there and compete against the striker 3. tackling - timing and accuracy 4. composure - remaining calm on the ball 5. passing ability - get the ball out to one of our players Stones excels in the lesser priority attributes for me.... the ones that kinda look good on the telly. Mentally he is all over the place at times, he is a bit weak and in the air his timing is off. We can get better players in for the key attributes for less. Haf, you are dead right. A centre-half needs all those attributes, I know, because I was a centre-half and had them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 good to have you back mate Thanks mate! Glad to see plenty of the old faces are still knocking around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 9, 2016 Report Share Posted August 9, 2016 Haf, you are dead right. A centre-half needs all those attributes, I know, because I was a centre-half and had them all. Haha brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Few editors have got us down for a cup this year. Let's hope they're right! http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-top-four-bottom-8593233 markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Seen snippets of the presser. Lukaku is a doubt as is Coleman. No right back cover only Kone as a striker (please no one mention Gerry or Mirralas) Williams not ready Stones sold. We're a fucking shambles, how the fuck can we be in such a poor state for the season opener. He's said he wants 3 or 4 more in, if you count Bolasie and Kone that's so there's either no keeper, cdm or striker coming in or 2 of those 3 wont be. Everton frustrate the fucking life out of me. No one else will be signed this week I absolutely guarantee it. Spurs will fucking batter us on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Seen snippets of the presser. Lukaku is a doubt as is Coleman. No right back cover only Kone as a striker (please no one mention Gerry or Mirralas) Williams not ready Stones sold. We're a fucking shambles, how the fuck can we be in such a poor state for the season opener. He's said he wants 3 or 4 more in, if you count Bolasie and Kone that's so there's either no keeper, cdm or striker coming in or 2 of those 3 wont be. Everton frustrate the fucking life out of me. No one else will be signed this week I absolutely guarantee it. Spurs will fucking batter us on Saturday. I must say, it does have me slightly worried. Late business again. However I do understand the reasons this time around (getting a new manager in and having time to assess the players he has, getting a DoF in letting him do his job) but it does seem a bit same old. So for the weekend, we have: 1 fit center back in Mori. 1 fit "striker" in Kone. By his other words, "fit" is also pushing it a bit based on his other comments. I do see a buttf*cking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 I must say, it does have me slightly worried. Late business again. However I do understand the reasons this time around (getting a new manager in and having time to assess the players he has, getting a DoF in letting him do his job) but it does seem a bit same old. So for the weekend, we have: 1 fit center back in Mori. 1 fit "striker" in Kone. By his other words, "fit" is also pushing it a bit based on his other comments. I do see a buttf*cking. He said we're only 70% ready. What the actual fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Can't keep on blamig Martinezfor everything though J, we've known we've had no cover at right back or striker all window. The fitness thing I get takes longer than 5 weeks to get really fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Can't keep on blamig Martinezfor everything though J, we've known we've had no cover at right back or striker all window. The fitness thing I get takes longer than 5 weeks to get really fit. I wasn't? I was pointing out the 2nd part though, that he wasn't putting the players through the required 'paces'. For someone so 'fit', Deulofeu looks shagged 20 mins into games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 I wasn't? I was pointing out the 2nd part though, that he wasn't putting the players through the required 'paces'. For someone so 'fit', Deulofeu looks shagged 20 mins into games. Ididn't just mean you mate, I have myself, most blues are to be fair. The club seem to be getting a walkover no matter what as people just say " take time to sort out Martinez mess" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 http://toffeetv.net/everton-sign-footballer-manager-as-new-partner/ Sponsored by Tenacious J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 http://toffeetv.net/everton-sign-footballer-manager-as-new-partner/ Sponsored by Tenacious J great news, Moshiri and the Russian starting to build the commercial side of the club. onward and upward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Didn't we have some sort of link-up with them in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 http://toffeetv.net/everton-sign-footballer-manager-as-new-partner/ Sponsored by Tenacious J I brokered a deal when they hired me. p.s. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 These knobheads at it again already https://twitter.com/theblueunion/status/763848811336851457 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 These knobheads at it again already https://twitter.com/theblueunion/status/763848811336851457 They really are d*cks. Even if I disagreed with their methods a few years back, I understood their reasons. This time round, they don't have ANYTHING to 'stand' for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) These knobheads at it again already https://twitter.com/theblueunion/status/763848811336851457 The Blue Union is a joke. But I've said over the last couple of weeks.... Is Moshiri really going to put his hand in his pocket? Hasn't yet and the longer the window goes on the less likely it looks. We've got Stones money + TV money. I don't think he'll put anywhere near £100m in. Not even 10% Edited August 12, 2016 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 The Blue Union is a joke. But I've said over the last couple of weeks.... Is Moshiri really going to put his hand in his pocket? Hasn't yet and the longer the window goes on the less likely it looks. We've got Stones money + TV money. I don't think he'll put anywhere near £100m in. Not even 10% Someone pointed out that, due to the new rules, we needed to show income before we could spend (presumably because we don't have crazy sponsorship deals, massive gate receipts etc.) and that the wait has been purely to get around the red tape. Time will tell of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.