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Guest John Burns

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Guest John Burns

It is well known that Everton under Moyes have punched above their weight. This has given Evertonians a false sense of security. Now back to reality. So what will keep us from the trap door to the Championship? Well simply MONEY.

Everton need to increase all revenue streams. Everton's income via the outdated ground is 1/6th of Man Us - it is easy to see why that club is out of sight. They run it better. Everton have a lot of catching up in this revenue stream. The club have tried to get a new stadium but have failed miserably for the past 15 years. The existing admin', or a new admin', must focus on the stadium issue ASAP to maintain a top club status, otherwise..... Doing nothing is not an option. Read on....

Joined up thinking by all parties can give Everton FC,

Liverpool FC, Kings Dock Arena and the community a

new Merseyrail Metro line.

Rapid-transit can move over 40,000 people per hour,

maximising stadia and line investment

Not to use the available Merseyrail Metro Rapid-Transit

for Three Stadia is Irresponsible.

Rapid-transit rail has ensured that Arsenal FC have filled

their new stadium to over 97% of capacity since 2006 and

in that time have not won any trophies.


Rapid-Transit Rail Key to Arsenal FC Success

Arsenal FC's Emirates stadium has six surrounding rapid-transit railway stations. The whole 60,000 can be shifted quite quickly by using rapid-transit rail. The key point to the success of the stadium, which since 2006 has been at over 97% full, is the ease of access served by the rapid-transit rail stations. The six stations immediately surrounding the Emirates stadium provide a total of 27 platforms, with 29 on weekdays.

The success of Arsenal FC, a club the size of Everton FC when at their old Highbury ground with a ground very similar to Everton's Goodison Park and similar sized fanbase focuses the mind to the key of a successful new stadium.

The Emirates stadium's site was selected because of the adjacent rail lines. emirates-2.jpg

£7.6 million had been set aside by the planning permission for upgrading adjacent Drayton Park and Holloway Road rapid-transit rail stations. However, Transport for London decided not to upgrade either station, in favour of improvement works at the interchanges at the nearby Highbury & Islington and Finsbury Park stations, both of which are served by London Underground lines and First Capital Connect services.

The stadium generates high revenues due to the superior facilities offered at the stadium of: corporate facilities, refreshments, cafes, bars, etc. The highly convenient, comfortable rapid-transit rail access attracts fans and ensures high attendances at the stadium. The top class stadium facilities and ease of transport access combine to produce high stadium revenues.

With fans arriving mainly by rapid-transit rail, there is minimal nuisance to the surrounding residents. Many thousands of car journey's are kept off the roads of London per year.

Arsenal's Profits are Startling


The club's 60,000-seat venue already generates £3.1 million every game, making Arsenal the world game's highest earners in terms of match-day revenue and such is the success of their business model the loan for the stadium could have been paid off in December 2010, four and half years after the stadium opened in August 2006.

Match day revenue was increased to £100.1 million in 2009, with the Group turnover increasing to £313.3 million.

The club is considering extending the stadium to 70,000 seats. The key to the stadium success, the existing rapid-transit rail infrastructure, can cope with the extra passengers.

Arsenal FC Eliminated a Business Partner

The availability of rapid-transit rail around the stadium site enabled Arsenal FC to build the stadium alone without a major business partner. The projected high attendances enabled the club to repay the loans without a partner.


This approach would entail Everton FC dispensing with the likes of supermarket companies as a business partners.

Once a business plan is put forward, with projections, financiers would be in a position to lend. Premier League football has not shown a decline since the Credit Crunch. Far from it. If anything it is a surefire winner financing a large Premiership club in infrastructure.

To a financier, the club does not need to win silver trophies, just compete at the top and earn enough to pay back the loans. The longevity of top Premier football clubs ensures the business is unlikely to fold with repayment assured in the long term.

Below: Arsenal FC's Emirates Stadium is surrounded by six rapid-transit rail stations:

Emirates.jpg


Wembley Park Moves 37,500 With Four Platforms

Wembley-Park-Station.jpg
With 27 platforms in the stations surrounding the Emirates stadium success of the stadium is guaranteed. Wembley Park station with only four platforms can move over 37,5000 people per hour.
Having Everton FC and Liverpool FC on the same rapid-transit rail line with only 4 platform stations adjacent to their stadia will ensure over half of the stadia capacity is moved by rapid-transit rail. Six platforms raises the throughput to 50,000 per hour. Building modern multi-platform stations is cost effective using pre-cast concrete forms as the construction method.

Melbourne's Rapid-Transit Copes With Multi Events

In Melbourne, Australia, the city's sports stadia, MCG, AAMI Stadium, Rod Laver Arena, HiSense Arena, Olympic Park and Etihad Stadium are all well serviced by the City Loop rail line. This line circles the city centre stopping at all key points intersecting radial lines for ease of interchanging.

The rapid-transit network can cope with two major sports events being staged simultaneously in the city. A rugby league game at AAMI Park with 30,000 supporters attending and Australian Rules events at the MCG also with a 30,000-plus crowd is common. Arrival and dispersal to and from the stadia is efficient. Trains leave every couple of minutes to all points on the City Loop with trams and taxis servicing the local districts from the stations.

Proposed Liverpool FC Stadium too Small

StanleyParkStadium.jpg

Liverpool FC controversially obtained planning permission to build a 60,000 seater stadium on the listed Stanley Park next to their current stadium at Anfield Road. The district is predominately residential being largely unsuitable for a stadium. The club has the proposal on hold considering a stadium with a larger 73,000 capacity. Liverpool FC cannot extend over 60,000 capacity unless a rapid-transit rail station is built on the adjacent freight only Canada Dock Branch Line. The available station sites are not spacious and may require compulsory purchase orders to build a suitable four to six platform high throughput station.

This is an ideal opportunity for Liverpool FC to combine with the city council, Merseytravel, Everton FC and other bodies to assess reopening the eastern section of the Outer Loop line completing the full rail loop od the city. A number of suitable stadium sites are available on the line for both clubs.

A Cost Effective Plan

When all points are assessed the plan to open a rapid-transit rail line gives high value:

  • The plan does not require a bottomless pit of money. The two clubs are building stadia - both at the same time.
  • One rail line is mothballed complete with intact bridges and the other is a used freight line, greatly reducing costs.
  • This is the perfect time to co-ordinate services.
  • The clubs have to find money no matter where they build stadia.
  • The city has two suitable lines for passengers.
  • The city needs regenerating - rapid-transit rail heavily assists.
  • Rapid-transit metro creates economic growth.
  • The two clubs provide kudos for the city with top class transportation.
  • The rapid-transit metro gives kudos and promotes the city - attracting investors and visitors.
  • Public money from many bodies can be obtained to assist in funding to aid regeneration of the city.

Ideal Opportunity To Combine All Parties

The city will never see such an opportunity. How often:

  • Do two large football clubs build stadia at the same time?
  • Does the city propose a city-wide electric transit system - trams but Merseyrail metro is superior?
  • Does the city regenerate so quickly?
  • Does the government electrify rail lines - the City Line from Liverpool to Wigan, and the Canada Dock Branch Line?

The opportunity must not be lost to combine all parties for the greater good of the football clubs and the community to create economic growth. A newly opened rapid-transit rail line on the Merseyrail metro opened to passengers may serve:

  • Many districts in the city
  • Wider Merseyside
  • Everton FC
  • Liverpool FC
  • The Kings Dock Arena

The city has to get it right as these stadia will be around for 100 years or more. Do it wrong and two white elephants may emerge. All the ingredients are there to guarantee success all around.

One Metro Rail Line Solves all in One Swoop.

  • Liverpool has a rapid-transit rail network. that requires expansion with available mothballed lines awaiting.
  • Two football clubs require moving many 1000s of fans to their proposed stadia.
  • A well used 10,000 seater Arena needs serving better.
  • Disconnected districts from Liverpool's rapid-transit metro need incorporating.

Bringing on-line just one rapid-transit rail line solves so much in one clear swoop.

Football Clubs are Key in Opening a Viable Line

The viability to open lines to passengers is that the two large football clubs can attract approximately four million passenger trips per year for football traffic alone. Usage by the community and further events at the stadia will further increase passenger trips.

Nuisance Value Reduced - Eco Enhanced

The nuisance value of stadia is vastly reduced moving most fans by rapid transit.

Pollution is vastly reduced with millions of vehicles journey's taken off the roads over a year. Collectively over a year the CO2 reduction is highly significant if rapid-transit served Everton FC, Liverpool FC, the Kings Dock Arena and Greater Liverpool.

Walk-Up Fans are Financially Significant

The walk-up fans, non-season ticket holder fans, who walk up on the day are a significant percentage of football match attendances. These maybe fans who do not attend all matches in a season and decide on the day to attend. This maybe a father and his young boy.

Catering for this financially significant section of fans makes financial sense to a football club. Unfortunately this section is largely ignored over season ticket holders. Giving easy access for walk-ups to access the stadium using rapid-transit rail increases the likelihood of a walk-up fan to attend a football match. These fans would increase revenue on the rapid-transit metro supporting its viability.

Available Rapid-Transit Lines

The are two available lines that can be easily used and merged into Merseyrail:

  • The eastern section of the Outer Loop Line - this line is mothballed.
  • The Bootle Branch Line - also known as the Canada Dock Branch Line - this currently is a used as a freight only line, although serving passengers in the past.

Mothballed Outer Loop Line Serving Three Stadia

This is the superior line of choice, with more useful connections and capable of handling simultaneous events at the Arena and a football stadium.

The mothballed eastern section of the Outer Loop Line completes the full loop of the city when connected to the Merseyrail Northern line at Hunts Cross in the south of the city and branched into the Kirkby branch of the Northern line in the north end of the city. The Loop Line can serve Everton FC, Liverpool FC and the Kings Dock Arena by recommissioning St. James station at Parliament Street.

Below: The Outer Loop line is from Hunts Cross to Aintree.


Merseyrail-07.jpg


Having both stadia on the line gives superb connectivity to mainline stations and two routes into the city centre with interchange connections to other lines. An advantage is that if there is a hold up on the line, trains can still be used around the loop.

Below: The mothballed eastern section of the Outer Loop line is in red. The Northern Line, the western section of the Outer Loop is green dotted. The light blue line is the soon to be electrified City Line into Lime Street mainline station. Liverpool South Parkway is the light blue star and the red and blue star Walton Hall Park.

FullOuterLoopLine.jpg


Available Stadia Sites on the eastern section of the Outer Loop Line

1. Long Lane

This site was suggested by the city council to both football clubs. The site is in the north end of the city near to where the eastern section of the Outer Loop can branch into the Kirkby branch of the Northern Line.

2. Walton Hall Park

This site is on the eastern side of Walton Hall Park, not far from the existing homes of Everton FC and Liverpool FC. Unlike Stanley Park, the park is not listed. Sainsbury's produced a proposal for a stadium on this site in order to partner with Everton FC.

Districts Served by the Outer Loop Line

The full Outer Loop Line serves:

  • Hunts Cross
  • Halewood
  • Woolton
  • Gateacre
  • Childwall
  • Broad Green
  • Knotty Ash
  • West Derby
  • Norris Green
  • Walton
  • Kirkdale
  • Vauxhall
  • City Centre
  • Toxteth
  • Aigburth
  • Garston

Many city districts are served by eastern section of the Outer Loop. Bringing these districts onto the Merseyrail metro will create economic growth, encourage investment and improve the quality of life for the people in these districts.

Canada Dock Branch Line - Bootle Branch

This line is freight only running from Edge Hill to Bootle. The line is earmarked for electrification. The line runs not far from the proposed Liverpool FC stadium at Anfield. Everton FC have been directed to assess the Green Lane/Prescot Road potential stadium site marked at the bottom right of the Canada Dock Dock Branch map.
The Line can serve both clubs and the residents of a number of districts. As track is already on the line, conversion to passenger usage promises to be cost effective. Interchanges with Merseyrail are at Bootle Oriel Road and Lime Street. The line runs under the Merseyrail Northern Line station at Kirkdale station with no platforms in place. Installing platforms at this key interchange station is not a great undertaking.
The line has potential to run from:

  • Southport to St. Helens
  • Southport to Lime Street
  • Southport to Liverpool South Parkway

Districts Served by the Canada Docks Branch Line

  • City centre
  • Edge Hill
  • Old Swan
  • Tubrook
  • Clubmoor
  • Anfield
  • Walton
  • Kirkdale
  • Bootle

Below: The Canada Dock Branch Line. The Green and white rectangle at the bottom right is a proposed stadium site at Green Lane/Prescot Road. The three red and white circles are the three proposed station sites for Liverpool FC's new stadium, which may be next to the existing stadium at Anfield.

Canada-Dock-Branch-2.jpg


Reusing the Wapping Tunnel

In time the Canada Dock Branch Line may extend into the city centre at Central station. The reuse of the 1829 Wapping Tunnel with some short branch tunnelling, would take the line from Edge Hill into Central station, fully merging with the Merseyrail metro.

The Wapping Tunnel's portal is at King Dock opposite the Arena, serving a well attended 10,000 seater venue.

The line could extend to Wirral using the tunnel. This would ensure football fans in the Wirral would have direct access to the football stadia and access the city centre without a change. The greater Liverpool community would also greatly benefit if these lines were in place.

Below: The 1975 plan to have metro trains from Edge Hill to access Liverpool Central station.

Wapping-Central-1970s.jpg




http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Rapid-Transit-Football.html

Edited by John Burns
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Guest John Burns

Could you sum it up in 10 words? unsure.png

We need a new stadium Now read it.rofl.gif Pay attention at the back!!! Otherwise the only trophy Everton will win will be the Championship.

Edited by John Burns
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Guest John Burns

He says Everton should build a new stadium near what is currently a public footpath so that a new rail line can be built there.

The Eastern section of the Outer Loop line is mothballed - the bridges are still retained. It was supposed to be on Merseyrail and work started in the 1970s. It said that. Do you want Everton to be a top club? The city is expanding and the economy rising more than any city apart from London. The city will need the line eventually. Better now with EFC benefitting. Edited by John Burns
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Arsenal/Emirates revenues can't be compared to ours as they are a London club who charge London prices and in turn are alienating many fans!

Get the prime points of the article. It has nothing to do with London or Liverpool or anywhere else. It is the fact that Arsenal have had 100% full gates since 2006. Why? Because the fans can get to and from the match quickly and in comfort from all over London and beyond. Hey presto!! Liverpool has a rapid-transit rail network as well. Common sense says let's use it to promote Everton Football club and propel the club back to the top. Not difficult to figure out is it? jump%20for%20joy.gif Edited by John Burns
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Strange timing to be discussing the stadium really, though I think a lot of BU lads will want to put their thoughts across while the forums are busy and the clubs guards are down lol.

 

If we can get a free stadium, cool, but how are we to afford new stadiums, plus all the disruption to the surrounding areas without help? I imagine that the cost of all this, versus the difference between current revenue over potential revenue would mean it would take a long time to get back in the black.

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Strange timing to be discussing the stadium really, though I think a lot of BU lads will want to put their thoughts across while the forums are busy and the clubs guards are down lol.

What is a BU lad? This is the right time to discuss the stadium as LFC are moving to tart up Anfield. It is best if both club move to get on a fast Merseyrail line. Now is the time to make plans for the future. A new stadium and new manager to give him funds. Working with LFC and the council is the only way to get the stadium issue buried once and for all.

 

If we can get a free stadium, cool, but how are we to afford new stadiums, plus all the disruption to the surrounding areas without help? I imagine that the cost of all this, versus the difference between current revenue over potential revenue would mean it would take a long time to get back in the black.

A free stadium? Wow. I wish. We get a new stadium the same way that: Arsenal, MK Dons, Sunderland, Huddersfield, Southampton, Coventry, Darlington, Swansea, Shrewsbury, Cardiff, Brighton, Northampton, Leicester City, Derby, Chester, Bolton, Man City, etc, get theirs. A financial package.

 

The help will be from the DfT paying for most of the line reinstatement that will assist EFC no end to ensure maximum attendances. Without ensuring maximum attendances the club cannot compete as a top club.

Edited by John Burns
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It's not going to happen anytime soon. We have short funding as it is so I can't see us suddenly clicking our fingers and making a stadium appear - even if we did have the money the buffoons running our club wouldn't move forward with the idea.

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It's not going to happen anytime soon. We have short funding as it is so I can't see us suddenly clicking our fingers and making a stadium appear - even if we did have the money the buffoons running our club wouldn't move forward with the idea.

More negativeness. crying.gif Is it an Evertonian trait? Moyes has kept the wages and transfer bills low. In the past few years EFC are one of the few clubs to make a profit. The club is in a good position to put together a finance package as the club performs and is well run. Banks like that. But they also need to bang heads together to get things moving. Kenright is on his way out, that is why there is no movement.

Edited by John Burns
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It is a trait in a sense, as that is the way Moyes has gone about his business for the most part of his 11 years with the club. More negativity than motivation or get up and go as we've all been witness to. Guessing some would jump at the chance to see Kenwright vacate his position, but ask yourself, is it really going to occur. We've seen before talk of a new venue, such as The Kings Dock project, but in the end, that was dead in the water, and some would seem content with simply giving Goodison Park a few licks of paint and just staying put. Appears very much we're stuck where we are, and what we have, for the immediate future.

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Staying put is standing on the trap door to the Championship. Now is the time to take action.

The city will never see such an opportunity. How often:

  • Do two large football clubs build stadia at the same time?
  • Does the city propose a city-wide electric transit system - trams which is now dead in favour of Merseyrail?
  • Does the city regenerate so quickly?
  • Does the government electrify rail lines - the City Line from Liverpool to Huyton/St.Helens/Wigan aiding the expansion of the rapid-transit metro?

The opportunity is RIGHT NOW. The club and Council sitting on their arses is not an option.

Edited by John Burns
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It is a trait in a sense, as that is the way Moyes has gone about his business for the most part of his 11 years with the club. More negativity than motivation or get up and go as we've all been witness to. Guessing some would jump at the chance to see Kenwright vacate his position, but ask yourself, is it really going to occur. We've seen before talk of a new venue, such as The Kings Dock project, but in the end, that was dead in the water, and some would seem content with simply giving Goodison Park a few licks of paint and just staying put. Appears very much we're stuck where we are, and what we have, for the immediate future.

 

That's your opinion, and not everybody shares it.

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Staying put is standing on the trap door to the Championship. Now is the time to take action.

 

I don't like saying 'We are too good to go down' but I don't buy this theory that we are close to the Championship. We've been on the fringes of the European spots for the past 10 years now and whoever is in charge we shouldn't be looking at going down. With players like Mirallas, Pienaar, Osman, Jelavic, Howard, Coleman (and Fellaini/Baines should they both stay) then I don't see why relegation is even in people's heads. The worst that will happen I believe is that we may finish 10th/11th and have a very long, boring season of nothingness.

 

Anyone who cries relegation for me is deluded.

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I don't like saying 'We are too good to go down' but I don't buy this theory that we are close to the Championship. We've been on the fringes of the European spots for the past 10 years now and whoever is in charge we shouldn't be looking at going down. With players like Mirallas, Pienaar, Osman, Jelavic, Howard, Coleman (and Fellaini/Baines should they both stay) then I don't see why relegation is even in people's heads. The worst that will happen I believe is that we may finish 10th/11th and have a very long, boring season of nothingness.

 

Anyone who cries relegation for me is deluded.

Oh no, he is going on about the team as it is right now, totally missing the point. The point is the business side of the club. Get the point, if the business side is not right we decline even further. It is not difficult to understand. What will propel the club forwards is a new high revenue stadium. It will put EFC amongst Man U and Arsenal in income. Man City & Chelski have Sugar Daddies so they are not on top of the business aspect as much as Man U and Arsenal.

 

The point is that Everton need a stadium. Now is the time for the points that were outlined. EFC could end up with managers that are nowhere near as good as Moyes as more Wimbledon and Coventry games may emerge again. Only MONEY Can make EFC compete at the top. I fear if the club do not act NOW along with LFC, the Council, DfT, etc, they will miss the boat to be a top, line club.

Edited by John Burns
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Yup.

You obviously were not at the Wimbledon (now MK Dons) and Coventry games.

Edited by John Burns
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You obviously were not at the Wimbledon (now MK Dons) and Coventry games.

 

What the hell has that to do with anything? Situation today bears no resemblance to those days.

 

For the record...no, I wasn't at either game in person but I'm fifty something so remember the games and the days all too well.

 

Certainly we need investment/a new ground to challenge the top six but to talk about relegation is alarmist bullshit and devalues any other points you make.

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Sounds like someone wants to convince the Liverpool community of a new corporate project tongue.png Good luck ,old chap!

NO. Propel Everton to a top club again, as they were when I was a kid. No one was bigger or better. Maybe you like being second rate. I do not. There is a solution to get a stadium that will maximize income. Read the first post again. It is not difficult to understand. It is very clear.

Edited by John Burns
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NO. Propel Everton to a top club again, as they were when I was a kid. NO one was bigger or better. Maybe you like being second rate. I do not. There is a solution to get a stadium that will maximize income. Read the first post again. It is not difficult to understand. It is very clear.

 

So we build a stadium, and win the Prem?

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So we build a stadium, and win the Prem?

One thing is clear, we will not win it without one. Get the points put forward.

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Very ambitious vision John, and I think we all would love a new stadium, but I would imagine this is nowhere near the boards priorities at the moment. I think the most important thing now is for the club to mind a manager who can continue to give the club the stability that Mr Moyes offered. Securing our short term success can transition to our long term success. If we gain an owner who is comfortable investing large amounts of money in the club it will happen. Otherwise it is doubtful the club will gain a new stadium any time soon.

 

John you must remember that large investments do not guarantee success. Diligent scouting and coaching are always the single largest contributors to a clubs sustained success, and though Arsenal are a financially stable club, it is not because because of their stadium. And like was mentioned above Arsenal have alienated a good portion of their hardcore fan base as a result of the stadium, and ticket prices that are no longer affordable for the average family.(This last portion is not to say that a new stadium is bad, but to "sell out" to get one is not worth it for a club like Everton)

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Remind me how many Premier League titles Arsenal have won since being at the Emirates.

 

Not only league titles, they haven't won anything since moving out of Highbury, but understand what was being said, having a big and impressive new stadium or venue doesn't guarantee success or things to be won. It looks as though it's what this entire thread is generally about.

 

Have to say, reading through the opening post and initial debate, never quite seen such a comprehensive and attention to detail articule on these pages, but the fact remains wanting to re-locate the club to fit in with a new rail-line opening or to bring about a greater chance of success, isn't going to occur anytime soon. should have tackled this when less tired and more alert but can't argue with that thinking right now.

 

Or if that doesn't work, if we stay at Goodison Park, which we are, the club will not suffer a relegation, regardless of who Moyes successor is. Good enough.

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