To the future

[Newty82]

John...brilliant posts. Top notch detail. But I cant help feel that you are trying to sell an idea, which is right in every way, but we aint the right people to sell it too!!!

 

Most fans would enjoy a new stadia to increase our revenues and competiveness, so long as it wasnt too co orperate and lost the soul of the club, which sadly many new stadia are/do.

 

However, we have seen a few let downs with these things in recent years. So the sceptism isnt negativity, its expereience.

[Guest John Burns]

Most fans would enjoy a new stadia to increase our revenues and competiveness, so long as it wasnt too co orperate and lost the soul of the club, which sadly many new stadia are/do.

 

However, we have seen a few let downs with these things in recent years. So the sceptism isnt negativity, its expereience.

We haven't experienced a new stadium. Everton have the experiences of other clubs to take on-board. Like it or not, the corporate side will be prominent in the club to survive as a big club - that is hard reality. Either you want a top club or do not. The road to a top club is the corporate side, a large top-quality stadium and rapid-transit access. That does not mean other fans cannot be accommodated. If you do not like corporate facilities no one is forcing you to use them. The bigger the stadium the cheaper the seats.

 

The back row at Arsenal is 1000 seats. They only need to extend back row 10 rows back and another 10,000 is accommodated. And there is talk of re-designing the roof for better acoustics. Even the most successful new stadium is being learnt from.

 

In 5 years time when we may have gone though two or three poor managers and are in the Championship, Evertonians will be screaming at why they never built a high revenue the stadium to stay in the top flight.

 

Also a top stadium in a good location really promotes the club and the city.

[Guest John Burns]

Remind me how many Premier League titles Arsenal have won since being at the Emirates.

Oh no. Please at least try and get the points put across. I emphasised that Arsenal, since the Emirates was opened, have not won silver pot to show off from the top of a chara-banc, BUT!!! the stadium has been 100% full for all games in a depression. Why? Read again..... because the place is top quality and very easy to get to and from using rapid-transit rail. It is not difficult to figure out.

 

Do not feel you have to write things for the sake of it.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

fact remains wanting to re-locate the club to fit in with a new rail-line opening or to bring about a greater chance of success, isn't going to occur anytime soon.

That is not FACT as you state. That is your opinion. The idea is to get all bodies together for the common good of all. All gain. Rapid-transit rail creates economic growth - a that is a fact - as any economist will tell you.

 

Large investment is stadia with easy access DOES guarantees success. Look at Arsenal. Arsenal have been successful. The stadium has enabled the club to compete in the top 4 consistently ensuring a constant high revenue stream. That is the proof of success, not a silver pot. Portsmouth not long ago won a silver pot. Are they more successful than Arsenal? The goal is competing in the top 4 year after year. That is success. Not showing a silver pot from the top of a chara-banc.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

if we stay at Goodison Park, which we are, the club will not suffer a relegation, regardless of who Moyes successor is. Good enough.

The club is still committed to move. Stop making things up. Stop giving wild opinions and passing them off as facts. Once Moyes has gone, a man who did wonders, hence why one of the richest club's in the world went for him, all points that EFC will resume it way pre Moyes - and that is more Wimbledon and Coventry type of games. And more turf kissing by fans after we are saved from the drop.

 

The club has to act now and get things moving by combining all interested parties. The solution is staring us all in the face.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Peter H]

The solution is staring us all in the face.

 

We have all known about this for some time now. We need a new ground. The solution is how ever not staring us all in the face. Far from it. The goal is staring us all in the face. A new ground! But the solution (how to get the new ground) is far from staring us all in the face.

 

Where is the money going to come from? Who will secure the location? Permits? etc etc.

 

You are kicking in open doors by posting it here on the forum. WE cant do anything about it but we ALL agree with you.

 

Great discussion though And a well written first post.

[StevO]

More negativeness. Is it an Evertonian trait? Moyes has kept the wages and transfer bills low. In the past few years EFC are one of the few clubs to make a profit. The club is in a good position to put together a finance package as the club performs and is well run. Banks like that. But they also need to bang heads together to get things moving. Kenright is on his way out, that is why there is no movement.

 

No, EFC havent made a profit.

[Matt]

very well researched it seems. but to say a new stadium will give us success is bizarre. It can bring us more revenue and increase our stature but its not the stadium that plays with the ball.

 

edit: and to talk about relegation is ludicrous...

Edited May 20, 2013 by Matt

[Newty82]

John...again, great posts. However, yet again I am reading your passionate replies, telling us we need new stadia for more income, to challenge etc etc, all correct by the way...but we, the fans, know that. We know it.

 

When I say the so called negative views arent so much negative but experience, I know we havent experienced new stadia but we have experienced two complete failures in the past 10 or so years...two plans which where boasted about left right and centre which came to nothing. Even a project to boost out corperate facilities a couple of years ago fell flat on its face. Thats the experience.

 

So, while I dont think that not having a new stadium will result in instant relegation...I do kinda agree that not having something done will make it a hell of a lot more difficult to challenge due to finances.

 

Im not sure of your motive for the whole thread, if we all just said 'yes, I agree'...then what?

[Guest John Burns]

We have all known about this for some time now. We need a new ground. The solution is how ever not staring us all in the face. Far from it. The goal is staring us all in the face. A new ground! But the solution (how to get the new ground) is far from staring us all in the face.

 

Where is the money going to come from? Who will secure the location? Permits? etc etc.

 

You are kicking in open doors by posting it here on the forum. WE cant do anything about it but we ALL agree with you.

 

Great discussion though And a well written first post.

How many times have I heard that, "we are skint" and "where is the money coming from". It is called a financial package. Professionals put it together. The solution is staring us in the face. The fans need to know as they can hold weight against the club to get things moving.

[Guest John Burns]

No, EFC havent made a profit.

"They are one of just six clubs, along with Swansea, Wigan, Newcastle, Reading and Arsenal, to record a profit in that time, in Everton's case £12.3m"

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/04/david-moyes-everton

 

It is best you find out before posting.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

very well researched it seems. but to say a new stadium will give us success is bizarre. It can bring us more revenue and increase our stature but its not the stadium that plays with the ball.

 

edit: and to talk about relegation is ludicrous...

You have a short memory. Before miracle man Moyes EFC were constantly in the relegation zone - look at the FACTS. Those clubs with high incomes were not, because could afford top quality players. . It is very simple.

[Matt]

You have a short memory. Before miracle man Moyes EFC were constantly in the relegation zone - look at the FACTS. Those clubs with high incomes were not, because could afford top quality players. . It is very simple.

I dont have a short memory at all. I grew up through the 90s, I know exactly how precarious our situation was. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the club has a much better squad and training ground now. To say we could go down is nonsense, at worst we will go back to mid-table mediocrity (which Im not happy to accept either).

 

I dont deny that we need a new stadium to advance, but I dont accept that is the only way we will win anything.

[Guest John Burns]

John...again, great posts. However, yet again I am reading your passionate replies,

They are not passionate. They are sorting opinion from fact and getting people to grasp the points put forward and not the points they imagine.

 

My motive is to inform, nothing else, of the by far the best plan. Members of the Merseyside Civil Society said it was "inspirational", as it kills many birds with one stone. There have been failures and the club was responsible for both. Kings Dock was because of in-club fighting in the board room. The detractors are gone. I am glad Kings Dock did not come about as it would have been detrimental to the city. Far better sites are around. Kirby's rejection was because they never sorted the transport out. Other reason were given as well, but if all were fine it would have been rejected on transport access alone.

 

Authorities are now quite firm on new stadia having more than adequate transport access, environmental impact, etc. Except in tart ups for Anfield, where a club has been largely responsible for the decline of a district with some fine Victorian houses. LFC bought up houses and boarded them up - some for 17 years. The area gradually declined and people started to move out. LFC deliberately drove down house/land values to get the houses for a song. Not only that, the Council is in cahoots with LFC. The fat mayor should resign.

 

 

Below: Two large concrete lumps (GP & Anfield) tower over the surrounding residential districts. They both should be told to get out ASAP.

 

Look at the plan to renovate Liverpool FCs Anfield. No reason or common sense whatsoever in that. A large concrete lump in the middle of houses. Would a nuclear power station be allowed planning permission in such a residential area? They are also large concrete lumps.

 

In sports the biggest global brands are Liverpool FC and Manchester United FC. When Liverpool FC tour South East Asia, 50,000 will turn up just to watch them train. Hence why US sports companies buy them. Liverpool FC and Manchester United FC are both US owned.

 

Liverpool City Council bend over backward to appease this global brand to ensure it stays a global brand, as it is perceived that the football club also promotes the city. So these clubs do what the hell they like with no respect to planning zoning, like destroying a Victorian residential district, with the Council's approval and assistance.

 

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

I dont have a short memory at all. I grew up through the 90s, I know exactly how precarious our situation was. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the club has a much better squad and training ground now. To say we could go down is nonsense, at worst we will go back to mid-table mediocrity (which Im not happy to accept either).

 

I dont deny that we need a new stadium to advance, but I dont accept that is the only way we will win anything.

He is on about the team. Oh my God! Only the business side can save Everton, teams come and go. If the business side s not in place the team suffers. That is easy to understand. There is a causal link. The team will decline and will not maintain the levels Moyes set. We will go back to the dark days of a manager every few years and relegation battles. You must remember them. Anyone who thinks the club can be a top club again with a relic of a ground in which half is made of wood is in a parallel universe.

 

A success is competing in the top 4 each year. Not winning a knock-out cup. Look at how Wigan fans feel. At the beginning of the season if they were give the option of winning the FA and relegation or mid-table security. I think we all know the answer.

 

Improving the revenue stream ensures a team that competes at the top. Very simple. A simple answer is looking at us all. The answer to LFC, and the people in those districts who benefit from an advanced metro line.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Matt]

He is on about the team. Oh my God! Only the business side can save Everton, teams come and go. If that is not in place the team suffers. That is easy to understand. There is a causal link. The team will decline and will not maintain the levels Moyes set. WE will go back to the dark days of a manager every few years and relegation battles. You must remember them. Anyone who think the club can be a top club again with relic of a ground in which half is made of wood is in a parallel universe.

 

A success is competing in the top 4 each year. Not winning a knock-out cup. Look at how Wigan fans feel. At the beginning of the season if they were give the option of winning the FA and relegation or mid-table security. I think we all know the answer.

 

Improving the revenue stream ensures a team that competes at the top. Very simple.

So, the team cant save the club, only business part can, so we can by better players for the team? That to me says the team are the more vital part.

 

also, you were comparing our situation now with that of during the 90s, and its just not the same scenario. However, if youve seen that far into the future and are saying its guaranteed that we will be relegated, how about noting the lottery numbers for the next season so we can invest?

 

Ok, less of the flippancy.... We all know we need investment. We all know we need a new stadium to progress. Your explanation in the 1st post is seemingly well researched and broken down, all of which I appreciate and support. Not sure what we can do here though

[Guest John Burns]

So, the team cant save the club, only business part can,

In the medium to long term yes.

 

so we can by better players for the team? That to me says the team are the more vital part.

Wrong Without the money there is no team. Get it? We all want EFC to compete with Man U and be a permanent fixture in the CL. Moyes could not do it. I am pretty certain no one else can. Doing nothing and ignoring a lucrative income stream that will ensure top club status is not an option.

 

The simple answer is looking at us. We all benefit even LFC.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Matt]

In the medium to long term yes.

 

 

Wrong Without the money there is no team. Get it? We all want EFC to compete with Man U and be a permanent fixture in the CL. Moyes could not do it. I am pretty certain no one else can. Doing nothing and ignoring a lucrative income stream that will ensure top club status is not an option.

 

The simple answer is looking at us. We all benefit even LFC.

if theres no team theres no business.

[Matt]

also, what can we do here?

[Guest John Burns]

if theres no team theres no business.

You really don't get it.

[Avinalaff]

John, which other forum do you post on mate?

[Matt]

You really don't get it.

I really do. We need to secure better facilities to ensure a greater income so we can compete with the other teams with greater wealth. Its something we all know. I asked you what we can do about it on here, and challenged the notion that we are relegation fodder without the change. Its possible, but far from certain.

 

The business does not exist without the team. The team can exist in some form without the business, but for sure cannot maintain its high standards which is what youre getting at. Im trying to show all eventualities rather than 1.

 

This problem has been around for many years, with people saying we cannot compete if we dont get a new stadium. Fact is, we have competed and the loss of the manager is not necessarily a given that we will disappear. Again, its possible but far from certain.

 

I'll say it again. Yes, we need a new stadium. Yes, we need to increase revenue in order give more financial stability and a better transfer budget. Your initial post was well presented and I agree with pretty much all of it. Not sure what I/we can do about here though.

[Bill]

John, which other forum do you post on mate?

 

Probably all of them, The man seems to be on a mission.

 

Its staring you in the face, you dont get it do you.

[Guest John Burns]

I really do. We need to secure better facilities to ensure a greater income so we can compete with the other teams with greater wealth. Its something we all know. I asked you what we can do about it on here, and challenged the notion that we are relegation fodder without the change. Its possible, but far from certain.

You wrote "So, the team cant save the club, only business part can, so we can by better players for the team? That to me says the team are the more vital part. "

 

That is warped logic. Putting the cart before the horse. The team does not exist without the business side.

 

Fact is, we have competed and the loss of the manager is not necessarily a given that we will disappear. Again, its possible but far from certain.

That's is deluded opinion again. The FACT is the club cannot compete with the top 4. Only one entry into the CL and that was only the prelims.

 

I'll say it again. Yes, we need a new stadium. Yes, we need to increase revenue in order give more financial stability and a better transfer budget. Your initial post was well presented and I agree with pretty much all of it. Not sure what I/we can do about here though.

I see, converted on the road to Damascus.

[Guest John Burns]

Probably all of them, The man seems to be on a mission.

 

Its staring you in the face, you dont get it do you.

When they get personal, as you are, that is when they have lost it.

[Bill]

I lost it after your 1st post mate, nice to meet you.

[Guest John Burns]

The relegation fighting and the Wimbledon and Coventry games were a big wake up call. Unfortunately the club slept through the alarm clock. We are now back to stage one and sweet FA done since the last 10 year period of relegation fighting.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Guest John Burns]

I lost it after your 1st post mate, nice to meet you.

No doubt you never got anything in the first place to lose. But nice to meet you. Next time talk about the points in question.

Edited May 20, 2013 by John Burns

[Matt]

You wrote "So, the team cant save the club, only business part can, so we can by better players for the team? That to me says the team are the more vital part. "

 

That is warped logic. Putting the cart before the horse. The team does not exist without the business side.

 

 

That's is deluded opinion again. The FACT is the club cannot compete with the top 4. Only one entry into the CL and that was only the prelims.

 

 

I see, converted on the road to Damascus.

How is it twisted logic?! The team existed before the business. Everton is a football club, take the team out of the club and its what? Thats why im saying the team is more important. Its a symbiotic relationship, but the key part is the team.

 

The fact, as you pointed out, is that we have competed with and finished in the top 4, which proves it can be done. Putting a statement in big bold letters doesnt make it correct, especially when you contradict it in the next sentence. However, we definitely need more income to achieve it again, and regularly, which is where the idea of improving the corporate facilities, stand capacity, sponsors - i.e. the business side.

 

Youve still not answered my question though; what can we do about it here? Are you trying to drum up support for your ideas? I'd happily support the proposals.

[Hafnia]

Totally in full agreement with this chap.

 

Too many people are focussed on the end product = how we do in the league, they are missing the bigger picture.

 

We have an appallingly bad org running our club. There is no solid comercial structure, a mid level company mentality a far cry from the pioneering forefathers who enabled our club to have the history we so oftne need to quote in order to remind ourselves we are big.

 

If Martinez came in and built a top 4 team and got us earning millions in the champs league, it would help but not guarantee a solid footing in the elite. The same old things will happen, clubs that can pay more will snare our best players, and we will have this glass ceiling above our heads. The answer is to get the club turning over greater revenue, this will attract investement - a greater catchment of people = more business opportunites and chances for diversity.

 

We missed a massive opportunity with Kings Dock, and the man who was part of that mistake is still in charge of our club. Doesn't fill me with any confidence.