Martinez won't last the season

[Hafnia]

How can anyone possibly be a true optimist when there was always a smere of negativity at that time whether it be from the board or DM..... Small club mentality breeds negativity.

apathy is the worst thing... people who support - muted, nothing to say, just being there is the best thing they can offer. Fuck that, how can you get better if you can't pick out the things that aren't as good as the competition... when you stop critiquing you stop improving or aspiring to achieve more than you have.

 

problem is Everton were far more than we are now... it's apathy that's allowed lesser clubs to see us as average. some fans need to refresh their club history.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Is it apathy or is it realism?

 

Let me start by saying yes Moyes had a case to answer as to why we always choked on the big occasion but generally speaking I think its fair to say he did a fantastic job while he was here and the club was undoubtedly in a far better position when he left than when he arrived

 

Hopefully Martinez can take us onto the next level, but even if he does the previous regime should still be given some credit for giving him such a solid platform to build on. We finished 6th last season but it could have been so much better if we hadn't have ran out of steam. Where could we have finished if we had a Lukaku last season?

 

Its been the same story for years, our starting XI has been quality but weve had no depth, is that down to apathy?

 

All weve been lacking is a top class striker, is that down to apathy?

 

Its not apathy that has held this club back . it is money

 

Some fans recognise this and appreciate the good job the club are doing under the circumstances, it doesn't make them apathetic , it makes them realistic

 

Other fans behave like spoilt brats whose parents cant afford the top toys and the best clothes so they stamp their feet and moan and whinge constantly because they want everything and they want it yesterday

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with aspiring to be better but at times a little dose of realism needs to be added

 

It wasn't that long ago that we were constantly battling against relegation, but hey at least we still had Bellefield.... some fans need to refresh their club history

[Brett Angel]

Some fans are nit spoilt, just have a greater appetite and are more aware of other clubs being tapped up while plucky old Everton are never seem to get past the first hurdle of a takeover headline in the paper... I wonder why?

 

And what's to say that DM coukdnt have gone for lukaku before west brom did? You say it like are hands were tied in some way.

 

Loan, Shmone.... We need some type of investment to start to build a team of the future and not till the last kick of the season, every season...

 

Some fans don't moan for the sake of moaning, they are the fans that get improvement out of clubs.... Whether there hands are forced or not.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Brett Angel

[Hafnia]

for one our commercial performance is shocking, absolute amateurish and we are miles behind less prestigious clubs. apathy allows tolerance of this sort of shite. apathy allows a board to get away with zero investment in the infrastructure, a lack of 5 year plan, shite stadium moves etc etc.

 

apathy leads to fans applauding the man who has overseen this.

[Matt]

[marcopaulo]

[Guest Nikica]

Glad to see him doing well as I like him and the way his teams play football. Everton are a good club with a great history and I wish you the best.

[Dalziel Kane]

There was an "interesting" piece yesterday I happened upon that proudly states that Roberto Martinez is actually -as of now, or so far in his teams endeavors - Everton Football Clubs 'most successful manager'

 

That is, better than Kendall (first time around), Catterick, Royle, Lee, Cuff,, McIntosh etc, based on the results of so far. They put it all together and came to that conclusion. Guess you can't dispute it but at least we will wait a while longer to see how things shape up, but it seems Martinez has himself a rather distinguished honor to his name.

[MikeO]

There was an "interesting" piece yesterday I happened upon that proudly states that Roberto Martinez is actually -as of now, or so far in his teams endeavors - Everton Football Clubs 'most successful manager'

 

That is, better than Kendall (first time around), Catterick, Royle, Lee, Cuff,, McIntosh etc, based on the results of so far. They put it all together and came to that conclusion. Guess you can't dispute it but at least we will wait a while longer to see how things shape up, but it seems Martinez has himself a rather distinguished honor to his name.

 

Presumably we're talking first ten games here?

 

In which case most successful first ten games as manager (while impressive) is just slightly different from most successful manager (full stop) which would be a completely vacuous statement.

[Hafnia]

There was an "interesting" piece yesterday I happened upon that proudly states that Roberto Martinez is actually -as of now, or so far in his teams endeavors - Everton Football Clubs 'most successful manager'

 

That is, better than Kendall (first time around), Catterick, Royle, Lee, Cuff,, McIntosh etc, based on the results of so far. They put it all together and came to that conclusion. Guess you can't dispute it but at least we will wait a while longer to see how things shape up, but it seems Martinez has himself a rather distinguished honor to his name.

 

Its an interesting fact but ultimately means very little.

 

You could make a statement that Moyes was Evertons most unsuccesful manager in terms of "trophies won vs number games managed"... You know me, I would love to use that one in my criticism of the bloke, but put into context Moyes was a very important manager in the history of Everton, it's just his tenure was 5 years too long for me.

 

Moyes has given Martinez a solid platform in terms of a good squad - but Martinez is definately the best man to manage that squad. Know a few lads who went to see him last night, they said he's a top bloke.

[Matt]

 

Its an interesting fact but ultimately means very little.

 

You could make a statement that Moyes was Evertons most unsuccesful manager in terms of "trophies won vs number games managed"... You know me, I would love to use that one in my criticism of the bloke, but put into context Moyes was a very important manager in the history of Everton, it's just his tenure was 5 years too long for me.

 

Moyes has given Martinez a solid platform in terms of a good squad - but Martinez is definately the best man to manage that squad. Know a few lads who went to see him last night, they said he's a top bloke.

You are really starting to freak me out

[Hafnia]

You are really starting to freak me out

 

He was - for a few years he did a great job, he maxed out and lived off that though. His resistance to evolve was my big bug bear with him.

[Matt]

 

He was - for a few years he did a great job, he maxed out and lived off that though. His resistance to evolve was my big bug bear with him.

oh i know. but this "new age" hippy, happy Haf is making me uncomfortable!

[Cornish Steve]

oh i know. but this "new age" hippy, happy Haf is making me uncomfortable!

 

Clearly, tippy tappy makes Haf hippy happy.

[Matt]

Clearly, tippy tappy makes Haf hippy happy.

[Dalziel Kane]

You are really starting to freak me out

 

where's the rest of the quote.

 

I was alluding to, what was said about Moyes being questioned about being an integral figure in the clubs history.

 

Ok, Moyes never managed to be a 'great' manager, but look back on the fact he made the club recognized once again, and was responsible for having the club rise from the ashes of the often poor tenure of Walter Smith. We went from constant underachievers into a regular contender for european places and the club came to the fore once again after being largely neglected for the best part of twelve years. That at least deserves recognition, and whether anyone wants to agree, or disagree, the fact remains the Scot was solely responsible for getting this club back on it's feet and becoming noticed once again. We're all aware of his inability to win a damn thing in his eleven years here, but as for the argument of whether Moyes was an important figure for Everton club history, you have to admit that he deserves his place.

 

I apologize to those that wish not to talk David Moyes any longer, and he's a thing of the past, and more than content to move on, but was merely responding to the piece in question.

[Hafnia]

No need to apologise DK, Moyes is going to be a relevant subject for some time. There are 18 year old fans who can't remember any other manager, imagine how the 30 year old Mancs must feel!

 

In my time I've known Kendall, Harvey, walker, royle, smith, Moyes, and now Martinez. (A few short tenured interim ones Watson, Gabriel)

 

Moyes is the second most important IMO, as we were on the way down. Now people may get excited and think Hafs gone nuts, but unfortunately overall... I dislike the man. I think he is a greedy, sandbagging, arrogant, stubborn man. He could have been a great manager with his tremendous work ethic, but I'm afraid he was so set in his ways he never will be.

 

Man united has brought the worst out of him. He is as phoney as a politician. His lack of tactical know how will see him out of that job. It's a pity, at Everton he had the opportunity to experiment and try and evolve. He didn't. He knows only one way and that will be his downfall.

[Dalziel Kane]

I went through all those above managers including Gordon Lee and Bingham, albeit for a very short time, he would just about have been done by the time I first found an interest in this clubs affairs.

 

You can castigate Moyes all you like, although concur his salary towards the end would appear questionable, but the biggest fault for me was his too often defensive strategies which has been elaborated on all too often. He continues to struggle at his new employers despite getting a standout win today but many people insist the League Cup is Moyes best hope of a trophy this season at MUFC, and fuck knows how he's going to achieve that, after having witnessed eleven years of elimination deficiencies at Everton. Moyes is a fine league manager, but custard and gravy in cup affairs.

 

It was said no more talk on David Moyes, but what's done is done.

[Bailey]

http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/

 

I thought this might be of interest. A few myths about our general performances expelled. Written before the Palace game though!

[Romey 1878]

What myths has it dispelled?

[Bailey]

I seem to keep reading that we don't create enough and we are crap at the back.

[MikeO]

"Last season Moyes squad finished with 1.65 points per game which was the highest during his 11 year reign."

 

Nope; we got more points in 07/08 (and equalled last year in 08/09)....if you're going to put yourself out there with stuff like this you need to get your facts right.

[Romey 1878]

I seem to keep reading that we don't create enough and we are crap at the back.

The article says we're creating less? So erm, yeah, myth dispelled!

 

We don't look safe at the back despite not conceding that many. A lot of that is down to Howard having a storming start to the season. It would be interesting see how many saves he's made compared to this time last season. I don't feel confident when sides attack us that we'll repel them, but I felt like that last season so it's not something that's been caused by Martinez.

[Cornish Steve]

http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/

 

I thought this might be of interest. A few myths about our general performances expelled. Written before the Palace game though!

 

That's a really excellent write-up.

[Hafnia]

I think the stats support a very solid capaign so far. The less chances better conversion doesn't surprise me - under Moyes we were almost used to seeing the same repeated pattern of play (Baines) with crosses being the main focal point. Did we squander many of the crossed balls into the box? That would be my guess.

[Bailey]

The article says we're creating less? So erm, yeah, myth dispelled!

 

We don't look safe at the back despite not conceding that many. A lot of that is down to Howard having a storming start to the season. It would be interesting see how many saves he's made compared to this time last season. I don't feel confident when sides attack us that we'll repel them, but I felt like that last season so it's not something that's been caused by Martinez.

 

But we are creating better chances and taking them which is the main and important point. We are creating better scoring opportunities even if we aren't creating as many.

 

Most of the games I have seen we look very solid at the back, but the problem comes when he fuck around with it one too many times and give the ball away in stupid positions. When we are set we look hard to break down, but the problem comes when we are in a transition phase and get caught with too many players out of position.

[Romey 1878]

 

But we are creating better chances and taking them which is the main and important point. We are creating better scoring opportunities even if we aren't creating as many.

 

Most of the games I have seen we look very solid at the back, but the problem comes when he fuck around with it one too many times and give the ball away in stupid positions. When we are set we look hard to break down, but the problem comes when we are in a transition phase and get caught with too many players out of position.

So that's a weakness and therefore we're not looking great at the back. It's not difficult to get at us. I don't agree that we look solid when we're set tbh. We look at our weakest defensively from set plays. The opposition attackers are constantly finding themselves completely unmarked. Against Palace on one occasion they had three, yes three!, players all on their own attacking the ball.

[Sibdane]

I think the stats support a very solid capaign so far. The less chances better conversion doesn't surprise me - under Moyes we were almost used to seeing the same repeated pattern of play (Baines) with crosses being the main focal point. Did we squander many of the crossed balls into the box? That would be my guess.

 

Awhile back someone posted a comparison between Evra and Baines that showed number of crosses vs number of assists. Baines had a significantly higher amount of crosses and chances created than Evra, but he had the same amount of assists as Evra with these multiple chances.

 

It could be attributed to the fact that Evra has teammates that are more likely to convert these chances, or maybe Evra's chances were more "scorable." Either way, there would be a positive correlation between less chances/higher conversion that would put a highlight on the theory in the above article.

[Brett Angel]

this has nothing to do with this thread, but is anybody getting slightly pissed with everyone cumming over southampton... we also have three english internationals in our first team, an excellent youth setup, spent far less than this club and never got relegated in the meantime....yet nothing is ever said about us but saints are supposidly a role model for other teams in the premiership at the moment.

[Matt]

this has nothing to do with this thread, but is anybody getting slightly pissed with everyone cumming over southampton... we also have three english internationals in our first team, an excellent youth setup, spent far less than this club and never got relegated in the meantime....yet nothing is ever said about us but saints are supposidly a role model for other teams in the premiership at the moment.

thats because the kopites are all over the media. Still true about Southampton though, but we still deserve recognition at the same time.