Martinez won't last the season

[Hafnia]

He's already ticked more boxes after 3 games than I thought he would.

 

Positives:

 

• Ross Barkley:- he has given belief and confidence to a player who moyes stripped of all his youthful 'fearless' nature. Yes we know he can lose the ball and try and do too much, but he needed a manager to nurture him, not punish him. Now he has, it seems to have made the player less reliant on trying to impress every time he gets the ball as he knows he will get time rather than minutes.
  
• The passing game:- Yes, the part of the game we have missed for so long. The game that would have equipped us to play the top 4 at their own game. Still way to go, but already we are seeing more chances created and soon enough we will give someone a hiding
  
• Fairness:- He is giving all the players a chance, even to his detriment. Moyes had his favs, Bob seems to be more balanced. It will foster a better competitive and more rewarding environement. "If I do well I will play"

 

Negatives:-

 

• We haven't won in prem and struggled against Stevenage:- Have we overdone the patient play? Is it Naismiths fault? Is it the transfer window? Is it RM's style? I don't think its any of the above. I seen the same results with Moyes "tough to beat 11" with less enjoyment. Bit early to say that the players struggle with this style. Some are flourishing, some predictably still feel the need to hoof.
  
• Kone:- Looked like he couldnt hit a cows backside with a banjo. I do think he will come good, a bright athletic player who has had a pre season fasting for ramadan. Lets give him a couple of weeks.

[weebittight]

He's already ticked more boxes after 3 games than I thought he would.

 

Positives:

 

 

• Ross Barkley:- he has given belief and confidence to a player who moyes stripped of all his youthful 'fearless' nature. Yes we know he can lose the ball and try and do too much, but he needed a manager to nurture him, not punish him. Now he has, it seems to have made the player less reliant on trying to impress every time he gets the ball as he knows he will get time rather than minutes.

• The passing game:- Yes, the part of the game we have missed for so long. The game that would have equipped us to play the top 4 at their own game. Still way to go, but already we are seeing more chances created and soon enough we will give someone a hiding

• Fairness:- He is giving all the players a chance, even to his detriment. Moyes had his favs, Bob seems to be more balanced. It will foster a better competitive and more rewarding environement. "If I do well I will play"

Negatives:-

 

• We haven't won in prem and struggled against Stevenage:- Have we overdone the patient play? Is it Naismiths fault? Is it the transfer window? Is it RM's style? I don't think its any of the above. I seen the same results with Moyes "tough to beat 11" with less enjoyment. Bit early to say that the players struggle with this style. Some are flourishing, some predictably still feel the need to hoof.

• Kone:- Looked like he couldnt hit a cows backside with a banjo. I do think he will come good, a bright athletic player who has had a pre season fasting for ramadan. Lets give him a couple of weeks.

Very balanced post. Often the movement of the forwards is key to the success of the midfield going forward. It is early days. Kone is not a 30 million pound striker. Only the Van Persies of this world generally hit the ground running. If he scores fifteen goals he will have been very decent business.

[Sideliner]

Kone has not played a single full game with the full Everton squad around him -

give him 10% of the leeway Jelavic has received and he should be fine -

some people just desperately want to see him fail because he is Martinez;s main signing up till now

[Sibdane]

Kone has not played a single full game with the full Everton squad around him -

give him 10% of the leeway Jelavic has received and he should be fine -

some people just desperately want to see him fail because he is Martinez;s main signing up till now

As bad as his performance was, I'd have to agree with this somewhat.

[marcopaulo]

Kone has not played a single full game with the full Everton squad around him -

give him 10% of the leeway Jelavic has received and he should be fine -

some people just desperately want to see him fail because he is Martinez;s main signing up till now

 

yeah people want to see players playing for our club fail...just so they can say i told you so..seriously doubt that..they're commenting on how shite he was..which by all accounts he was

[Sibdane]

 

yeah people want to see players playing for our club fail...just so they can say i told you so..seriously doubt that..they're commenting on how shite he was..which by all accounts he was

 

You'd be surprised how much folks love being vindicated.

 

I don't think he was completely terrible. I only got to see highlights -- and he did miss a few sitters -- but I thought he was decent other than, you know, completing his primary task of scoring goals.

[Matt]

I am amazed at how people seem to think this passing style is completely new, and that all Moyes ever did was get the back to launch it up front. We did play attacking, passing football under Moyes, probably as much as, if not more than, hoofball. Remember Mirallas goal end of last season (even the BBC recognized it, was up for goal of the month)? Remember being compared to Barcelona? Remember the 1st half of last season where we dominated teams with fluid attacking football? Remember Ossies goal against Larissa? Im cherry picking here but I could list hundreds of examples.

 

Hoofball came about because the players / management ran out of ideas against teams and resorted to punting it long (which has more chance of scoring than passing back and forth between the back 2) in the hopes it would get a break. It wasnt pretty, but sometimes it is necessary.

 

The only difference Ive seen is more caution and patience in build up and the obvious, that Barkley is going to be the heartbeat of the team and is the creative, driving force weve missed since Arteta. Dont get me wrong, I still think RM is the man for the job but I refuse to acknowledge this is all new, because it just isnt.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Matt

[Bailey]

I am amazed at how people seem to think this passing style is completely new, and that all Moyes ever did was get the back to launch it up front. We did play attacking, passing football under Moyes, probably as much as, if not more than, hoofball. Remember Mirallas goal end of last season (even the BBC recognized it, was up for goal of the month)? Remember being compared to Barcelona? Remember the 1st half of last season where we dominated teams with fluid attacking football? Remember Ossies goal against Larissa? Im cherry picking here but I could list hundreds of examples.

 

Hoofball came about because the players / management ran out of ideas against teams and resorted to punting it long (which has more chance of scoring than passing back and forth between the back 2) in the hopes it would get a break. It wasnt pretty, but sometimes it is necessary.

 

The only difference Ive seen is more caution and patience in build up and the obvious, that Barkley is going to be the heartbeat of the team and is the creative, driving force weve missed since Arteta. Dont get me wrong, I still think RM is the man for the job but I refuse to acknowledge this is all new, because it just isnt.

We certainly did play some good stuff under Moyes but those games of good passing football probably amounted to 10 games a season at the most and even then it generally started with a long ball of some description into the striker who we fed off. When we played teams that shut down the striker (or Felli/Cahill) we struggled because we only had one way of doing things and we kept repetively trying to force it (remember Stoke and the cross long ball bombardment we tried!).

 

We moved the ball much slower under Moyes and we played the ball forward at the earliest sign of pressure.

[Bailey]

Oh and dont forget we are only 3 games in! Lol

[Matt]

We certainly did play some good stuff under Moyes but those games of good passing football probably amounted to 10 games a season at the most and even then it generally started with a long ball of some description into the striker who we fed off. When we played teams that shut down the striker (or Felli/Cahill) we struggled because we only had one way of doing things and we kept repetively trying to force it (remember Stoke and the cross long ball bombardment we tried!).

 

We moved the ball much slower under Moyes and we played the ball forward at the earliest sign of pressure.

pretty much what I was getting at Though I wouldve said it was more than 10 games a season.

 

Its not new, but we're more patient now. some people seem to think it never existed before Martinez...

 

Oh and dont forget we are only 3 games in! Lol

I know, Ive admitted Im getting overly frustrated and impatient. Like I said, the only changes Ive seen are fewer hoofs (theres still a fair few, which is ok in my opinion), more caution, and more passing at the back. I wanted more passing in the middle of the park, but I guess thats why everyones crying out for a new CM

Edited August 30, 2013 by Matt

[Hafnia]

I think under Moyes we remember the "good" football as really it was the exception to the rule. We had a few games here and there where we showed that we had technically adept players and we shouted it from the rooftops... but really it was the odd time, our style generally was to hit the flanks or fellaini/cahill.

 

I'll summarise it the best I can..... "I know more fans who have packed in their season tickets under moyes than any other time". The comments were:- predictable, negative, awful subs, sitting back, boring.

 

Yes we did see the odd game where you thought "where did that come from?" - but thats because we weren't used to seeing it.

 

I'm not saying RM is a revolutionary, I just think he wants us to play the game as it should be. Not tikki taka, not overdoing it, just pass and move... its the movement bit that needs working on IMO.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Hafnia

[Matt]

I think under Moyes we remember the "good" football as really it was the exception to the rule. We had a few games here and there where we showed that we had technically adept players and we shouted it from the rooftops... but really it was the odd time, our style generally was to hit the flanks or fellaini/cahill.

 

I'll summarise it the best I can..... "I know more fans who have packed in their season tickets under moyes than any other time". The comments were:- predictable, negative, awful subs, sitting back, boring.

 

Yes we did see the odd game where you thought "where did that come from?" - but thats because we weren't used to seeing it.

 

I'm not saying RM is a revolutionary, I just think he wants us to play the game as it should be. Not tikki taka, not overdoing it, just pass and move... its the movement bit that needs working on IMO.

fair enough, though I still maintain the good football wasnt an exception.

 

predictable, negative, awful subs, sitting back - yes, it happened a lot, which is why im not sad to see him go. Boring, 50/50.

 

Good to see you recognize mate, thats not been apparent in your previous posts. Maybe you could take Avins "the eternal optimist" on, seems fitting now

[Hafnia]

fair enough, though I still maintain the good football wasnt an exception.

 

predictable, negative, awful subs, sitting back - yes, it happened a lot, which is why im not sad to see him go. Boring, 50/50.

 

Good to see you recognize mate, thats not been apparent in your previous posts. Maybe you could take Avins "the eternal optimist" on, seems fitting now

 

Under Martinez Barkley will become a £50m player, and not a championship player some were forecasting due to his shattered confidence and limited opportunity.

 

I've always said, Moyes will find it difficult to rid himself of that massive "journeyman, yard dog centre half, lower league" chip he's got on his shoulder.

 

To him flamboyant players must trigger thoughts of "aye, sonny, ye put that ball through my legs again and ye gettin stretchered off" or "how did Johnny foreigner get man of the match for that worldy from 30 yards and beating his man every time? I just kept a clean sheet and elbowed their number 10 without getting carded"

 

Its simple psychology to me. I seen it all those years ago when he had Rooney. He was jealous and it stuck out like a bulldogs plums.

 

Lets be straight here, any of us who have played soccer 6's and are over 35 will have felt it... You play against a team of 18-20 year olds. They have learned moves they seen ronaldo do and can make you look an idiot. You tell others "all comes to nothing, no end product, doesn't work for their team" Rubbish, you are just jealous you aint got it in your locker with the same young legs.

 

For me Martinez is the opposite, he likes to see it, its how he was brought up to understand the game. Its why Spain are the best european team we've seen since Hungary (1954)

[pete0]

We could play some great stuff under Moyes until we took the lead and he shat himself. The lads would zip the ball round and Mpyes would be on the touchline screaming to hoof it.

[Hafnia]

We could play some great stuff under Moyes until we took the lead and he shat himself. The lads would zip the ball round and Mpyes would be on the touchline screaming to hoof it.

 

 

A lad whose mate grew up with Leon Osman asked him why he never got forward and more adventurous (he was a striker as akid). He said he can't and that the gaffer would go nuts if he did.

[Lowensda]

To be fair, that was one of the problems against Stevenage. When people did go 'up', they all went and it left a gigantic hole in the middle, from which we were then exposed.

[thoward18]

Not going to panic yet, but not a single win against three teams that likely will finish no higher than 10th and an extra time victory against a team just promoted from League One. Results have to come soon.

[Matt]

Not going to panic yet, but not a single win against three teams that likely will finish no higher than 10th and an extra time victory against a team just promoted from League One. Results have to come soon.

im sure they will.

 

on the flip side, 3 league games, 2 clean sheets.

[Avinalaff]

When you have no money, building a team that can compete is a long process, but Moyes was getting very close. This time last year we were playing very well, with a few bad decisions robbing us of points.

 

Maybe the Chelsea match has come at the right time, but one thing is for sure, and that is 38 draws will get you relegated, so we need to start finding out how to win. I'm more pissed off that I am losing heavily on my Fantasy team lol.

[Bailey]

When you have no money, building a team that can compete is a long process, but Moyes was getting very close. This time last year we were playing very well, with a few bad decisions robbing us of points.

 

Maybe the Chelsea match has come at the right time, but one thing is for sure, and that is 38 draws will get you relegated, so we need to start finding out how to win. I'm more pissed off that I am losing heavily on my Fantasy team lol.

 

I dont think Moyes was any closer than he was about 4-5 seasons back though. This time 2 and 3 years ago we were playing bloody awfully and Moyes had been here for 8-9 years at that point.

 

We are 3 games in with Moyes' squad who have played the Moyes way for a long time. We have played some decent football and also like when we were under Moyes we are finding ways to give away points. That will take time to change and Im sure Martinez will get there and soon.

 

My main worry at the moment is the form of Mirallas, he looked brilliant in pre-season being really direct and full of intent. I dont know if its because the 4 teams we have played have all parked the bus but he needs to start finding his feet again.

[MikeO]

When you have no money, building a team that can compete is a long process, but Moyes was getting very close. This time last year we were playing very well, with a few bad decisions robbing us of points.

 

Maybe the Chelsea match has come at the right time, but one thing is for sure, and that is 38 draws will get you relegated, so we need to start finding out how to win. I'm more pissed off that I am losing heavily on my Fantasy team lol.

 

Eight time in the last ten seasons thirty eight points has been enough to stay up.

[Avinalaff]

 

Eight time in the last ten seasons thirty eight points has been enough to stay up.

 

38 draws has a different effect on the rest of the league than 38 points

[Hafnia]

 

38 draws has a different effect on the rest of the league than 38 points

Yep, it would invariably lower the required points to survive given that 2 x 1 point for a draw is less than the 3 points for a win. Meaning the other point disappears.

[Avinalaff]

Yep, it would invariably lower the required points to survive given that 2 x 1 point for a draw is less than the 3 points for a win. Meaning the other point disappears.

 

You could feasibly win the league with 38 points, and 3 teams would be relegated on 38 points.

[StevO]

I'm still feeling positive about Roberto. I think we will see a big improvement when the window has finished and Gibson is back, though I don't want to pin all my hopes on Gibson with his injury record.

My biggest worry was Robertos defensive record at Wigan, I was still worried after Norwich. But now we seem really solid at the back, I suppose with the possession we have it's hard for teams to score.

We need a slightly higher tempo in the midfield, I'd like to see Mirallas on the left and start Gerry on the right, with Anichebe up front (if he's fit) or we bring someone in on loan.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think its totally ridiculous to be getting on his back after just 3 games, he is trying to completely change the way in which we play and so its not going to happen overnight.

 

Under Moyse we usually played at a much higher tempo, but to say we played "hoof ball" is total bollocks IMO, and we always looked a poor side when we didn't have that zest about us. RM now has us playing at a much slower, more methodical, pace and so its going to take time to adjust. I also think Gibson is a big miss for us at the moment because I think this new style would really suit him

 

For me the main problem at the moment though is the same one its always been, we just don't have that quality striker who could get us the goals to turn draws into wins. While I never really rated Kone at Wigan and I do think we have paid over the odds for him I think he needs to be given a chance to get his fitness levels back up and to have a bit of time to bed in, then who knows he may just make a difference

 

I think we will be in for mid table mediocrity this season and then we will hopefully kick on next season when he has had time to get his own players in and stamp his own style on the side.

[weebittight]

I think its totally ridiculous to be getting on his back after just 3 games, he is trying to completely change the way in which we play and so its not going to happen overnight.

 

Under Moyse we usually played at a much higher tempo, but to say we played "hoof ball" is total bollocks IMO, and we always looked a poor side when we didn't have that zest about us. RM now has us playing at a much slower, more methodical, pace and so its going to take time to adjust. I also think Gibson is a big miss for us at the moment because I think this new style would really suit him

 

For me the main problem at the moment though is the same one its always been, we just don't have that quality striker who could get us the goals to turn draws into wins. While I never really rated Kone at Wigan and I do think we have paid over the odds for him I think he needs to be given a chance to get his fitness levels back up and to have a bit of time to bed in, then who knows he may just make a difference

 

I think we will be in for mid table mediocrity this season and then we will hopefully kick on next season when he has had time to get his own players in and stamp his own style on the side.

Absolute sense. We had spells under Moyes when we could not score in a women's prison. The goals will come and Martinez needs time and support in the long term. I hate to use this example but Take a glance across the park. Plenty of "The faithful" were moaning about Rodgers at this point last season. They ain't moaning today. Edited September 2, 2013 by weebittight

[Memmaclub]

So that for me is a disgusting transfer window. Martinez said the squad would be stronger. It's not. What amazes me is the positivity of people when the club continues to strip valuable players away to replace them with polished turds. Everyone is going to be happy with McCarthy and lukaku. But they are direct replacements and the latter is on loan. So 33.5 mil in. Even including the early business we are 12 mil in profit.

 

Martinez is a joke - we are shopping in a world market. It's true but they have to have played for Wigan first. We have now got the spine of a relegated team in our squad great!!!!

 

Was buying Kone for 6 mil to sell vic for six good busineess no way he is 5 years older.

[Matt]

So that for me is a disgusting transfer window. Martinez said the squad would be stronger. It's not. What amazes me is the positivity of people when the club continues to strip valuable players away to replace them with polished turds. Everyone is going to be happy with McCarthy and lukaku. But they are direct replacements and the latter is on loan. So 33.5 mil in. Even including the early business we are 12 mil in profit.

 

Martinez is a joke - we are shopping in a world market. It's true but they have to have played for Wigan first. We have now got the spine of a relegated team in our squad great!!!!

 

Was buying Kone for 6 mil to sell vic for six good busineess no way he is 5 years older.

[jofanon]

I think it's a decent transfer window but I'd ask why business washy done earlier?

 

We must have money outside of Felli? We've been chipping away at the debt for years, new sky money etc...

 

Where is it?