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David Moyes thread

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

No idea why he’s tanked so much in his career, but even less of an idea why people are enjoying it. He did a good, not great, job here and I’m not understanding the hate at all

manily because of this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/23753129

 

Then twisted the knife in with this bellend shout : https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/23/david-moyes-marouane-fellaini-leighton-baines

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

No idea why he’s tanked so much in his career, but even less of an idea why people are enjoying it. He did a good, not great, job here and I’m not understanding the hate at all

Its quite simple for me....

1.  He had a great opportunity to use his reluctance to sign a contract to get the board to stop with the ridiculous constraints on his transfer budget in order to strengthen the team.... he said he would only sign the contract if he had assurances about getting funds.  They made him one of the highest paid managers in world football and he more or less immediately told the press that we don't have much money and that we will be looking at loans etc.

2. Penknives to gunfights comments - top half is a great achievement for a club like Everton.... constant dampening of expectations which led to us being viewed somewhat patronisingly.

3. His crass pursuit of Leighton baines and fellaini when he went to united.... his comments were a disgrace and wiped away anything good he fostered with the fans in his 11 years here.

4. He just wasn't that good really....

 

 

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

No idea why he’s tanked so much in his career, but even less of an idea why people are enjoying it. He did a good, not great, job here and I’m not understanding the hate at all

Because Everton fans are always fickle and often irrational. An emotional bunch, not always a logical bunch.

1. Underselling the club and expectations - Common workplace sense, "underpromise, overdeliver". Yes, it can be quite annoying when done to the extreme, but most managers do it. The ones who don't are like Roberto Martinez - promise us Champions League and take us to eleventh. His overambition and overdreaminess certainly got old quickly.

In the context of the fact that the club had battled relegation since the beginning of the PL era and that we were cash strapped, it was a great achievement to get us the consistency that Moyes did. Not necessarily in the overall context of the club, but you have to be with the times. 

2. If we had sold Fellaini and Baines for 30m total, it would've been a masterstroke for Moyes and shown Kenwright's true inability in all things business.

3. Nobody argues that Moyes is great, but most argue that he was a consistent and  more than competent performer here.

 

I would really hate to be the ex-girlfriend of some of the members here.... 

There's a saying, "If you meet an asshole one day, you meet an asshole. If you meet an asshole everyday, you're the asshole."

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2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

no hate to moyes, generally like the guy seems decent and did well with us.  i just expect him to relegate west ham because he's been well off it ever since he left United.

think he was well off it when he joined utd.

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2 minutes ago, rubecula said:

think he was well off it when he joined utd.

i actually think he did ok at united.  Just something about getting let go of his dream job after taking over from his mentor/friend SAF just did him in.  Real Sociedad was a disaster, Sunderland an epic failure, and now West Ham i just don't see him turning it around.  

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Moyes just had a bit of a dickhead attitude. He did a pretty good job here, but his attitude stopped him from getting any further. 

West Ham is a great job for now though. Decent chairman, money, and enough players in the squad to get them.higher up the league without too many problems.

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On 20/11/2017 at 14:34, Quinn31 said:

Because Everton fans are always fickle and often irrational. An emotional bunch, not always a logical bunch.

1. Underselling the club and expectations - Common workplace sense, "underpromise, overdeliver". Yes, it can be quite annoying when done to the extreme, but most managers do it. The ones who don't are like Roberto Martinez - promise us Champions League and take us to eleventh. His overambition and overdreaminess certainly got old quickly.

In the context of the fact that the club had battled relegation since the beginning of the PL era and that we were cash strapped, it was a great achievement to get us the consistency that Moyes did. Not necessarily in the overall context of the club, but you have to be with the times. 

2. If we had sold Fellaini and Baines for 30m total, it would've been a masterstroke for Moyes and shown Kenwright's true inability in all things business.

3. Nobody argues that Moyes is great, but most argue that he was a consistent and  more than competent performer here.

 

I would really hate to be the ex-girlfriend of some of the members here.... 

There's a saying, "If you meet an asshole one day, you meet an asshole. If you meet an asshole everyday, you're the asshole."

You don't undersell a football club.... certainly not a club that prided itself on being one of the best and proudest clubs in the land. 

He did a good job steadying the ship... he tried to make a fuckin career out of it. 

He was a hypocrite... slated players for leaving Everton and despite bagging £22m for joleon lescott he offers little more for Fellaini and Baines.  It wasn't just the offer it was his behaviour to our club in the media afterwards. 

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35 minutes ago, hafnia said:

You don't undersell a football club.... certainly not a club that prided itself on being one of the best and proudest clubs in the land. 

He did a good job steadying the ship... he tried to make a fuckin career out of it. 

He was a hypocrite... slated players for leaving Everton and despite bagging £22m for joleon lescott he offers little more for Fellaini and Baines.  It wasn't just the offer it was his behaviour to our club in the media afterwards. 

Ah, the joys of being a spectator instead of a manager. 

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7 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

Ah, the joys of being a spectator instead of a manager. 

You mean the joys of being a supporter of a club who you have grown up watching win leagues, cups and basically maintaining it's proud status as an elite club till some fans allow chairmen and managers to dilute that status.... to tell us "this is the best you can expect".

You wanna accept mediocrity, downplayed expectations, second best then feel free.  Personally every shitty sponsorship deal, sacked mercenary "couldn't give a shit"" manager,  fucked up transfer window and gutless tactics is a kick in the bollocks to this club. 

Im not accepting people telling me that  moyes was good cos he got us 6th place either.  He was moaning about a glass ceiling years before he left.  He was moaning about being unable to be a top 4 side whilst on top 2 wages.  How many fuckin ways did he want it.

Joe Royle fucked our calamitous board off because he knew they weren't Everton standard.... thing is he saved us from more certain relegation, delivered a cup, beat top 4 sides, and got us up the top of the table in the few years he was here. 

He never spent his time telling the world Everton can't dare to be where they should.... 

 

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6 hours ago, hafnia said:

You mean the joys of being a supporter of a club who you have grown up watching win leagues, cups and basically maintaining it's proud status as an elite club till some fans allow chairmen and managers to dilute that status.... to tell us "this is the best you can expect".

You wanna accept mediocrity, downplayed expectations, second best then feel free.  Personally every shitty sponsorship deal, sacked mercenary "couldn't give a shit"" manager,  fucked up transfer window and gutless tactics is a kick in the bollocks to this club. 

Im not accepting people telling me that  moyes was good cos he got us 6th place either.  He was moaning about a glass ceiling years before he left.  He was moaning about being unable to be a top 4 side whilst on top 2 wages.  How many fuckin ways did he want it.

Joe Royle fucked our calamitous board off because he knew they weren't Everton standard.... thing is he saved us from more certain relegation, delivered a cup, beat top 4 sides, and got us up the top of the table in the few years he was here. 

He never spent his time telling the world Everton can't dare to be where they should.... 

 

I think your problems lie with Sky TV, the backpass rule, foreign players, and the demise of long ball.

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55 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

I think your problems lie with Sky TV, the backpass rule, foreign players, and the demise of long ball.

Sky TV and Richard Scudamore saved EFC - commercially we were/are an absolute joke.  Only the increase in TV money meant that our debt was minimalized vs income which made our purchase more attractive. 

not too sure about the rest of what you wrote if i'm honest - I think my previous post clearly explains where I stand on the  "tolerated demise" of our clubs standing within the game. 

 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Sky TV and Richard Scudamore saved EFC - commercially we were/are an absolute joke.  Only the increase in TV money meant that our debt was minimalized vs income which made our purchase more attractive. 

not too sure about the rest of what you wrote if i'm honest - I think my previous post clearly explains where I stand on the  "tolerated demise" of our clubs standing within the game. 

 

You ever think that not being in London doesn't have something to do with it? That's where all the true high dollar sponsors have offices thus generating the demand for corporate sponsorships and premium seating that brings in massive commercial and matchday revenue. 

Why have Spurs grown so much in financial clout? Arsenal? 

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51 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

You ever think that not being in London doesn't have something to do with it? That's where all the true high dollar sponsors have offices thus generating the demand for corporate sponsorships and premium seating that brings in massive commercial and matchday revenue. 

Why have Spurs grown so much in financial clout? Arsenal? 

Nope.  Commercially have a look at Newcastle, Liverpool, man city, villa, Sunderland in those years.

Look at elstones ridiculous kitbag and Chang deals....

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Was curious how this would go - After three successive debacles, I was curious if he was a relic who wasn't fit to manage anymore. 

I had always known that his biggest problem was his decision making in picking jobs... Man U was too big for him and especially bad replacing SAF... He was a square peg in a round hole at Real Sociedad - not knowing anything about the language, culture, and La Liga. And then Sunderland.... A dumpster fire of a club. 

 

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Sunderland exposed his complete lack of appropriate player recruitment which arose due to him sticking to old tried and tested players using his scouting manual from 2007.

I predicted he would go for players like anichebe and pienaar and crazy enough he did exactly that.

At West ham he has some reasonable players to work with from an attacking perspective like lanzini.  It remains to be seen what he does in the transfer market. 

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58 minutes ago, MikeO said:

"I never got a chance to say, 'No'"

What a pile of crap.

He had a choice as to how he was going to behave towards us when becoming the United manager.   His behaviour over Baines and fellaini was awful. 

I understand it's business... but  I would have been disappointed in a manager who had no ties to us behaving like that.   It was mark hughes/lescott but twice as bad. 

I recall conversations I had with a chap who used to drive for a company - not exactly taxis.... more like a contract company who drove people around in mercs.  He told me he did a fair few trips for Mr moyes which involved taking him to SAF's house.  He liked him... it quite clearly involved chats over a bottle. I have no doubt moyes knew after pep told SAF that he wasn't interested. 

 

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6 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Can’t wait until this man is as irrelevant to us as he is to the footballing world. 

Why would you say that, he's  the best Manager we've had in the last forty years Mark.??

Edit ..... Or Since the mid 80s more like 35years.

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14 minutes ago, Bill said:

Why would you say that, he's  the best Manager we've had in the last forty years Mark.??

Edit ..... Or Since the mid 80s more like 35years.

Why would I want to remember someone that is labelled as being the best we've had in that period but achieved the grand sum of nothing? I'm not in the habit of looking back fondly on mediocrity or celebrating it.

When people look back at our history in another hundred years Moyes will be a footnote because he did nothing that anyone will remember. It'll be league title and cup wins that will be what is remembered. And him being made a total irrelevance will mean we've gone on to achieve things again in the proceeding years.

Oh, and he's a gobshite, that's another reason why I'd say that :P  

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

Why would you say that, he's  the best Manager we've had in the last forty years Mark.??

Edit ..... Or Since the mid 80s more like 35years.

I couldn't give a shit if he actually delivered us a trophy or beat Liverpool at anfield or indeed the other top 4 away from home in his 11 years.....

He behaved like an utter prick during and after his time at goodison.  His prickish behaviour "during" his time for me was how he leveraged our need for players/transfer budget to get a whopping contract.  Once he got his mega contract he shut the fuck up about needing players and started saying he would use the loan market. 

He struck very lucky IMO in the fact that he managed to fall on a model that suited him and us.  Buy low/pay high salary to retain players and play a rigid 4-5-1 which essentially turned a striker into a workhorse decoy for the 5th midfielder (cahill/fellaini) to exploit. 

A complete "circle the wagons" bottle job of a manager who made us afraid to play the best teams away from home and freeze up in cup games when we had the upper hand. 

Much of what I said about him in 2007 onwards turned out true.... he stopped evolving.  Relied on his outdated scouting network and went for players that he knew rather than pitched their worth against current up and coming players. Take his time at Sunderland..... pienaar, Gibson, anichebe .... shocking.

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2 hours ago, Bill said:

I hear all of your opinions and what you think of him, but it doesn't alter the fact that  he's been our best Manager in the last 35 years.

Joe Royle was better.   Saved us from relegation and won us a trophy....

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Over a short period but over a longer service  would Joe Royle have been in the top seven for eight years out of ten.

"After his success at Preston, he succeeded Walter Smith as manager at Everton in March 2002. He took over the Merseyside club when they were above the relegation zone on goal difference and led them to safety with a 15th place position.

An impressive transformation of the club’s fortunes followed and they finished seventh in Moyes’ first full season in charge.

In the 2004/05 campaign, Everton finished ahead of Merseyside rivals Liverpool in fourth position, their highest ever Premier League finish to date, and secured UEFA Champions League qualification as a result.

Moyes established the Toffees in the top seven of the Premier League from 2006/07 onwards and led the side to UEFA Europa League qualification on three occasions."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/5392431/Evertons-David-Moyes-is-manager-of-the-year.html

1st manager to win it 3 times, I'd be quite happy if we could get a manager to match him.

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2 hours ago, Bill said:

Over a short period but over a longer service  would Joe Royle have been in the top seven for eight years out of ten.

"After his success at Preston, he succeeded Walter Smith as manager at Everton in March 2002. He took over the Merseyside club when they were above the relegation zone on goal difference and led them to safety with a 15th place position.

An impressive transformation of the club’s fortunes followed and they finished seventh in Moyes’ first full season in charge.

In the 2004/05 campaign, Everton finished ahead of Merseyside rivals Liverpool in fourth position, their highest ever Premier League finish to date, and secured UEFA Champions League qualification as a result.

Moyes established the Toffees in the top seven of the Premier League from 2006/07 onwards and led the side to UEFA Europa League qualification on three occasions."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/everton/5392431/Evertons-David-Moyes-is-manager-of-the-year.html

1st manager to win it 3 times, I'd be quite happy if we could get a manager to match him.

He "won" nothing Bill.... he couldn't get a win away from home against the top 4 in over 40 attempts. Never mind a trophy.  He bottled the cup final.... Chelsea were knackered, there for the taking. 

Top 7?  That's not a feat worth celebrating... Martinez and koeman both managed that.  The latter being one of the worst managers I've seen in charge of the club.  

 

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Top 4 once, top 5 twice, top 6 twice and top 7 twice in 10 seasons,  3 times Manager of the year in those ten, a Wembley Final, and Euro footy 4 times. I won't say any more Haf your like a dog with a bone, you will continually reply until everybody gets fed up.

Just look at the figures Mate, our best Manager since Kendall in the Eighties.   No doubt.

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38 minutes ago, Bill said:

Top 4 once, top 5 twice, top 6 twice and top 7 twice in 10 seasons,  3 times Manager of the year in those ten, a Wembley Final, and Euro footy 4 times. I won't say any more Haf your like a dog with a bone, you will continually reply until everybody gets fed up.

Just look at the figures Mate, our best Manager since Kendall in the Eighties.   No doubt.

Do you honestly think those stats above are worthy of the 4th most successful side in England?  They indicate varying degrees of "runners up"....   we never became the 4th most successful side in virtue of where we finished with the other also rans..... we got it by winning things.  11 years- no trophy.  There ain't trophies for 4th place I'm afraid.

Joe Royle accepted the Everton job without even looking at what he was going to get paid.  He resigned on principle of not getting a player signed.... not leveraging it to get a pay rise like moyes.  He had a nice settled job last year and resigned on principle due to fat Sam being hired. 

Royle is the last manager to deliver us a trophy.  He is the last relevant manager. 

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So because you don't like the man you are dismissing his achievements, I knew you would come back with some weird and wonderful useless information.

This is my last word on it but I'm sure it won't be yours Haf.

Amen

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15 hours ago, Bill said:

So because you don't like the man you are dismissing his achievements, I knew you would come back with some weird and wonderful useless information.

This is my last word on it but I'm sure it won't be yours Haf.

Amen

What did he acheive? Finishing a mean average place of 8th in his 11 years? There isn'tt anything that recognises that as success. 

Regardless of whether I like him or not he is the longest ever serving Everton manager to never have won anything.  Compare him on a list to other Everton managers and he represents failure really....  there is nothing that argues the case for him. 

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16 hours ago, Bill said:

So because you don't like the man you are dismissing his achievements, I knew you would come back with some weird and wonderful useless information.

This is my last word on it but I'm sure it won't be yours Haf.

Amen

On win percentages both Colin Harvey and Martinez were better.

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