Hafnia Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Part 2. The answer is admit they have fucked up on 2 counts and sell for no more than what they bought and insist there is a cash injection in the club to rejuvenate it and leave it debt free. Now that would be a true blue. See Jack Hayward. Not exactly a tenner. But you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's a really simple question, Haf. What would you have done differently. Just put out an initial 10 point plan, no masses of detail needed, to show how you would've turned the situation around that PJ left is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) It's a really simple question, Haf. What would you have done differently. Just put out an initial 10 point plan, no masses of detail needed, to show how you would've turned the situation around that PJ left is in.What would I have done after Peter Johnson? 1.Not lied about ring fenced money. If Paul Gregg was in a position to deliver Kings Dock then Everton comes first, I step back. 2. I would have done a share issue, diluted the value of immediate value in shares in order to provide a much needed class stadium. 3. Recruited a high end CEO in order to tap into the marketing streams we have missed out on. Namely the Australian connection with Cahill, USA with Donovan and Howard. 4. Not sold finch farm. Utilised naming rights to pay towards building the facility. 5. Employed a world class broker to seek investment. Not conducting a 24/7 search myself and calling myself the best salesman Everton have. 6. Utilised the boards wealth. Why is the best salesman for Everton incapable of leveraging the boards wealth in order to not have us paying over the odds in interest rates ah hem vibrac. That said, take care of previous points and it's probably not an issue. 7. Cut the bullshit. Don't ban agm's. if questions can't be answered then it's either you don't know the answer or can't face the truth. This is one of the things that created the divide along with recruiting despicable liars like Ian Ross. Edited August 25, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The only thing I'd say, and I don't want to delve in to much as I think I've had my say, is that the Kings Dock may not have been the ultimate answer for EFC. Wow. Did I say that?! Don't jump on me. From what I've read of it, and I've used all sorts of sites in the past, there were that many fingers in that pie that Everton wouldn't have made as much money out of it as we think. A lot of other people, including Gregg, would have made a fortune. It's a tough one. And I really wanted it at the time too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Manchester city rent their stadium from the council. It actually got them a buyer. It makes them a ruck of money. We couldn't fail with kings dock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Haf, some good answers (albeit in retrospect) but some 'irrelevant' ones too. Will explain more when I'm on my computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Haf, some good answers (albeit in retrospect) but some 'irrelevant' ones too. Will explain more when I'm on my computer. Thing is Matt, any sound business looks at options. We have blindly followed a non too carefully plotted one for too long. Mistake after mistake. Retrospective views maybe but in reality a bit of insight could have prevented such fuck ups. Edited August 25, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thing is Matt, any sound business looks at options. We have blindly followed a non too carefully plotted one for too long. Mistake after mistake. Retrospective views maybe but in reality a bit of insight could have prevented such fuck ups.tomorrow, mate. Tomorrow. Should've been asleep an hour ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Heard a really good call on talk sport this morning. The caller managed to concisely get across thew amount of money spent by the club versus the money coming in - plus he basically slated Elstone in a very methodical fashion. Charlie Adam tried to deflect is and say "they bought Mccarthy and Lukaku" - this typifies the laziness of the media, Fellainis money bought Lukaku and the sales of Anichebe & Jelavic bought McCarthy. Add on the £5m for Besic and that was RM's lot. The club has a big media spot light on it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I thought that this was pretty good: http://www.insideworldfootball.com/matt-scott/17728-matt-scott-nothing-but-the-best-will-do-but-can-everton-really-do-better What is Rodrigol playing at changing his name to Rodrigo Beckham!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I thought that this was pretty good: http://www.insideworldfootball.com/matt-scott/17728-matt-scott-nothing-but-the-best-will-do-but-can-everton-really-do-better Last season, the trend dipped as the club finished 11th. But that was roughly on a par with reasonable expectations, given how the club's wage bill had been only the 10th biggest in the Premier League. Indeed, net transfer spending had been among the bottom three for the previous three years and never in the top 10 in the previous five. I think that is a problem not something to be championed... So basically if we can spend more on wages we can expect to compete??? then how do we increase our wage spend -------- increase revenue. We have failed to keep up with the top boys in this regard and now are joined by the likes of stoke and swansea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Instead the cash was invested in the transfer market, with Romelu Lukaku joining from Chelsea in a big-money deal and Muhamed Besic joining from Ferencvaros. With none of the senior players leaving Goodison that season, for the first time in years Everton had become a buying club. Thats incorrect we sold fellaini and co... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 http://toffeeweb.com/season/15-16/news/30671.html comments on here are always interesting I find The financial investigation is something that I believe needs to happen. It will certainly stop a load of arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 What would I have done after Peter Johnson? 1.Not lied about ring fenced money. If Paul Gregg was in a position to deliver Kings Dock then Everton comes first, I step back. Forget the lying part, your action would be to allow Paul Gregg to get involved. Can't remember the timelines, I remember reading he put into the initial buy out, but wasn't the Kings Dock story 3-5 years later? 2. I would have done a share issue, diluted the value of immediate value in shares in order to provide a much needed class stadium. Shares were bought for buttons anyway, from what I heard, so not sure what diluting them further would accomplish? With the buyout being for a lot less than the initial valuation, how would you use this to get cash for a stadium? I can only assume a mortgage? 3. Recruited a high end CEO in order to tap into the marketing streams we have missed out on. Namely the Australian connection with Cahill, USA with Donovan and Howard. On paper, Bob had a good CV. It's only in retrospect that he's turned out to be a lemon 4. Not sold finch farm. Utilised naming rights to pay towards building the facility. Naming rights on a training facility for a relegation battling team? Doesn't sound realistic to me! 5. Employed a world class broker to seek investment. Not conducting a 24/7 search myself and calling myself the best salesman Everton have. Costs money, money that wasn't available. Where does that income come from? But also, do the time lines match up? 6. Utilised the boards wealth. Why is the best salesman for Everton incapable of leveraging the boards wealth in order to not have us paying over the odds in interest rates ah hem vibrac. That said, take care of previous points and it's probably not an issue. If the board members won't put money in, you can't use it. Vibrac is the necessary evil as a result of that. 7. Cut the bullshit. Don't ban agm's. if questions can't be answered then it's either you don't know the answer or can't face the truth. This is one of the things that created the divide along with recruiting despicable liars like Ian Ross. Doesn't address the financial predicament at all, but it would've been a better communication method Stuck in meetings all day, only brief feedback. Interesting points mate, look forward to going into it. My only request is to try and keep emotion out of it, the accusing tone makes it harder to get to the point. We know they've fucked up, all of them, but lets concentrate on exactly why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Stuck in meetings all day, only brief feedback. Interesting points mate, look forward to going into it. My only request is to try and keep emotion out of it, the accusing tone makes it harder to get to the point. We know they've fucked up, all of them, but lets concentrate on exactly why. Its kinda difficult Matt, emotion is Everton. Its like being forced to go back to a restaurant where the chef keeps over cooking your steak. You love the atmosphere etc etc but this chef is still there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Its kinda difficult Matt, emotion is Everton. Its like being forced to go back to a restaurant where the chef keeps over cooking your steak. You love the atmosphere etc etc but this chef is still there! I know mate, hence the request to try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 A fair amount of banners there tonight that have had the photographers snapping. Elstone and kenwright the targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) If stones stays I'll give the board one on the plus side, I definitely bark at them but if they allowed RM to keep him and not cash in bravo to them. Edited August 27, 2015 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 If Stones stays and we sign nobody of note the apologists wont get away with it this time. If they try and use keeping Stones as an excuse for having no money it's a fucking joke. No other way to put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 If Stones stays and we sign nobody of note the apologists wont get away with it this time. If they try and use keeping Stones as an excuse for having no money it's a fucking joke. No other way to put it. I agree to some extent. If they prove through the financials they have taken the 20m and used it for debt and vibrac and that so in future windows we don't ever have to mess with the vibrac I'm ok. But if it's stones stays and no one in exempt the 5m we spent and no word on the financials of 20m in the plus I will be upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 If Stones stays and we sign nobody of note the apologists wont get away with it this time. If they try and use keeping Stones as an excuse for having no money it's a fucking joke. No other way to put it. Ha ha I go to the game home and away, I was brought up in Liverpool and still live there , I drink in Liverpool, most of my family and friends support the blues and I have met hundreds if not thousands of Evertonians in my travels around the world and yet I have never heard anyone say " I'm sorry about Bill Kenwright mate" You're right though if all we do this window is keep Stones then its been a disaster and the club have a lot to answer for Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 https://twitter.com/theblueunion/status/637013951897837568 Delusional cunts MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 If Stones stays and we sign nobody of note the apologists wont get away with it this time. If they try and use keeping Stones as an excuse for having no money it's a fucking joke. No other way to put it. I'd be happier to keep Stones. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 https://twitter.com/theblueunion/status/637013951897837568 Delusional cunts Hilarious isn't it! I agree Elstone needs replacing, but "lost the fan base"?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 There is a long and entwined web of failures, some small wins, lies, some truths, false dawns and what you are left with is a completely divided fan base. Don't count "non active" protestors as being ok with things - a large degree of apathy has been created which is very damaging indeed. The fan base is split - there is no doubt about it. There is a few camps:- Lets stick with Bill, he's a blue and does what is right for the club. Bill is a charlatan - where's the arteta money, lets get a cake and go on a march. I've had enough of them, but nothing I do will change it, I will stick to supporting the team and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 There is a long and entwined web of failures, some small wins, lies, some truths, false dawns and what you are left with is a completely divided fan base. Don't count "non active" protestors as being ok with things - a large degree of apathy has been created which is very damaging indeed. The fan base is split - there is no doubt about it. There is a few camps:- Lets stick with Bill, he's a blue and does what is right for the club. Bill is a charlatan - where's the arteta money, lets get a cake and go on a march. I've had enough of them, but nothing I do will change it, I will stick to supporting the team and see what happens. They certainly exist like that, but I'd be interested to know the percentage behind each one. That'd really show how "split" the fanbase is. Also, those 3 groups will always exist, regardless of Bill or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 They certainly exist like that, but I'd be interested to know the percentage behind each one. That'd really show how "split" the fanbase is. Also, those 3 groups will always exist, regardless of Bill or not. My guess 20% Bill is great 20% vocally unhappy 60% generally had enough but just stick to following the team whichever way you look at it its not unanimous and its not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) My guess 20% Bill is great 20% vocally unhappy 60% generally had enough but just stick to following the team whichever way you look at it its not unanimous and its not good. Like I said before, it never will be My guess 5% Bill is great 2% vocally unhappy 28% generally had enough but just stick to following the team 65% don't care about what goes on behind the scenes, just want to watch us play. Edited August 28, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Lost the fan base, maybe not. Split the fan base, certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 If we were top of the league things must have been running well for a while to enable us to get there Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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