duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 The issue was that you think there are no buyers. EVERY OTHER club in the Premier has been sold. You then tried to divert this simple fact with your "but how have the other clubs done" comment which has NOTHING to do with your stupid comment. For me it's enough to consider that someone like Lerner could have handed 200 million to Moyes instead of tossers like O'Neill. Clubs have been sold but how many of them had a two-time Manager of the Year? How many times during Moyes's time did the fans think that if he had just 30 million we would have a chance of a top four? What if he had been handed a 100+ million transfer kitty? He could have signed a few really good forwards and added some quality and depth to other areas. You have lost me now what actual comment are you saying was stupid? Also I did not say there were no buyers, I'm sure the club could be sold tomorrow if Kenwright didn't give a toss about who he sells to I said there was no queue of billionaires waiting in the wings and I gave what I thought were valid reasons why we are not an attractive proposition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 How do we know or trust that there isn't a queue of people looking to buy a football club? Has there ever been a case of a genuine buyer who publicly stated their desire to buy a football club? I do know that Lerner approached kenwright and was knocked back. Is it because kenwright does not own those shares as per watchedtoffee? That it's Mr green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 You have lost me now what actual comment are you saying was stupid? Also I did not say there were no buyers, I'm sure the club could be sold tomorrow if Kenwright didn't give a toss about who he sells to I said there was no queue of billionaires waiting in the wings and I gave what I thought were valid reasons why we are not an attractive proposition So, EVERY OTHER team has been sold which means EVERY OTHER team in the Premier League has been a better buy and it just happens that Everton is the only club no-one wants to buy? Yeah, right. I'm amazed you don't understand how stupid that sounds. And Kenwright owns less than one fourth of the shares so he doesn't decide it alone. The issue is that the owners want a ridiculous return on their original investment. No-one has been willing to fork 150 million (current price is 200 million) because, as you said, the club needs more investment on top of that. The same owners bought the club for 20 million 16 years ago so they want a cool 1000 percent profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 So, EVERY OTHER team has been sold which means EVERY OTHER team in the Premier League has been a better buy and it just happens that Everton is the only club no-one wants to buy? Yeah, right. I'm amazed you don't understand how stupid that sounds. And Kenwright owns less than one fourth of the shares so he doesn't decide it alone. The issue is that the owners want a ridiculous return on their original investment. No-one has been willing to fork 150 million (current price is 200 million) because, as you said, the club needs more investment on top of that. The same owners bought the club for 20 million 16 years ago so they want a cool 1000 percent profit. So which other owners (outside the obvious billionaires who would never have bought us in the first place) would you rather have? And if you'd bought something fifteen years ago (I could borrow the house "comparison" if you like) that was now worth vastly more than you paid for it because of a property boom would you accept a pittance? If you had an early Apple PC that was worth a hundred times what you paid for it would you say, "No have it for £200 mate because that's all I paid". Some people are in total fantasy land. Matt and duncanmckenzieismagic 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 So, EVERY OTHER team has been sold which means EVERY OTHER team in the Premier League has been a better buy and it just happens that Everton is the only club no-one wants to buy? Yeah, right. I'm amazed you don't understand how stupid that sounds. And Kenwright owns less than one fourth of the shares so he doesn't decide it alone. The issue is that the owners want a ridiculous return on their original investment. No-one has been willing to fork 150 million (current price is 200 million) because, as you said, the club needs more investment on top of that. The same owners bought the club for 20 million 16 years ago so they want a cool 1000 percent profit. :I surrender: I give in, you refuse to answer a direct question so I really have no clue what "stupid" comment you are banging on about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 So which other owners (outside the obvious billionaires who would never have bought us in the first place) would you rather have? What does this have to do with the original argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 :I surrender: I give in, you refuse to answer a direct question so I really have no clue what "stupid" comment you are banging on about I already did, but just in case you missed things like message #952, here's your argument again: I hate to break it to you but its called reality, there is no long queue of billionaires chomping a the bit, just itching to get their hands on Everton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) I'd agree there's nobody banging on the door willing to pay the asking price, who knows what that is? but I'd imagine it's in the £150m + debt bracket. Then they'd need to fund a new stadium.... Total amount: £350 - £400m to buy us out and provide a stadium.... No wonder there's little interest. That's without buying top players on big wages ala City, Chelsea, United..... We'd be a huge project that would need Monopoly money thrown at us.... Can't see it happening unless the board drop the asking price or fund the new stadium. Not sure how much the likes of Pompey and Blackburn went for but I'd imagine it was a fraction of what you need to pay to takeover this club. We just need to sit tight. Edited September 28, 2015 by MC11 Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 What does this have to do with the original argument? Nothing at all . I give in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) shall we get back on track with this:- some key points that anyone wants to have their say on.... 1. Do you believe Kenwright actually has the say on selling the club? - or does Green own it by proxy as per revelations-strongly linked associations by watchedtoffee that have been strongly rumoured since the whyness days... 2. Do you believe that no one has approached our current owners with a view to buying? 3. What takeovers/ownerships have improved the clubs versus deteriorated? 4. Is there a list where we can review and select our next owners? - if so can we see it. Edited September 28, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 shall we get back on track with this:- some key points that anyone wants to have their say on.... 1. Do you believe Kenwright actually has the say on selling the club? - or does Green own it by proxy as per revelations-strongly linked associations by watchedtoffee that have been strongly rumoured since the whyness days... 2. Do you believe that no one has approached our current owners with a view to buying? 3. What takeovers/ownerships have improved the clubs versus deteriorated? 4. Is there a list where we can review and select our next owners? - if so can we see it. I think we missed out on Lerner, but have dodged all the cowboys. Atm it would take a bigger wallet than lerner and I'd rather we used youth and coaching.. And find a media team worth their salt, than do a city. Deacs and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I think we missed out on Lerner, but have dodged all the cowboys. Atm it would take a bigger wallet than lerner and I'd rather we used youth and coaching.. And find a media team worth their salt, than do a city. Relative to the value and cost of things at the time - Lerner was a massive miss. The only thing Lerner did wrong was have a spolit kid like MON at the helm calling all the shots. He went into premier league a little wet behind the ears and trusted the wrong people. For me - it is probably wrong to criticise Bill Kenwright for not selling the club, just in the way it is probably wrong to criticise Harry Redknapps dog for not donating his Monaco bank account funds to the RSPCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Relative to the value and cost of things at the time - Lerner was a massive miss. The only thing Lerner did wrong was have a spolit kid like MON at the helm calling all the shots. He went into premier league a little wet behind the ears and trusted the wrong people. Totally agree, but I can understand why they didn't take the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Totally agree, but I can understand why they didn't take the risk. It didn't even get to a "lets sit down and discuss"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 It didn't even get to a "lets sit down and discuss"... It's odd that an American was looking to invest their time and money at the time. EPL wasn't predicted to grow this much, most clubs made a loss. Hard to believe they would be in it for the long haul. Could have easily been a Venky's type situation. Can't believe he was naive enough to back MON. It's gone tits up now and he's looking to do a runner. Out of interest who would you consider to be wealthy and good enough to take us over, but has invested elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I already did, but just in case you missed things like message #952, here's your argument again: Ha ha so you think that there is a long queue of billionaires chomping at the bit ready to buy the club!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Ha ha so you think that there is a long queue of billionaires chomping at the bit ready to buy the club!!!!! One billionaire was turned down without so much as a meeting. Long list or not, he was very very interested and bought his second option instead. The fact that this occurred - does it not make you question whether the club would be sold??? That's without going into the conjecture regarding staverley refusing to business with us after us messing over mansour looking at buying us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 There have been mentions from people who have no reason to lie about it about couple of billionaires. And the point is that there would be interested people if the price was reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I dont think we need a billionaire to come in, not with the TV money. All we need, not like they grow on trees though, is a business man. Thats the big difference, and flaw with BK, he isnt a businessman. As well as he has done in the entertainment industry, he has hired the right professionals to run his business. Hes also done this very well with his managers at Everton, just not so much with his CEO's. The only one we've had with a proven track record, Trevor Birch, didnt stick at it. As much as I want someone new to come in and buy the place, i'd be just as happy to see someone with a proven history of running and improving a multi billion pound company come in as CEO and implement a business and development plan to take the club forward long term. We have had too many short term fixes, with the extra money coming in we dont need to keep going for a 12 month fix. Work to a ten year plan, maybe at the end of a ten year plan we might be in a position to fund a stadium or develop GP. I can only live in hope. duncanmckenzieismagic, Matt, Romey 1878 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I dont think we need a billionaire to come in, not with the TV money. All we need, not like they grow on trees though, is a business man. Thats the big difference, and flaw with BK, he isnt a businessman. As well as he has done in the entertainment industry, he has hired the right professionals to run his business. Hes also done this very well with his managers at Everton, just not so much with his CEO's. The only one we've had with a proven track record, Trevor Birch, didnt stick at it. As much as I want someone new to come in and buy the place, i'd be just as happy to see someone with a proven history of running and improving a multi billion pound company come in as CEO and implement a business and development plan to take the club forward long term. We have had too many short term fixes, with the extra money coming in we dont need to keep going for a 12 month fix. Work to a ten year plan, maybe at the end of a ten year plan we might be in a position to fund a stadium or develop GP. I can only live in hope. I actually think we're already in the middle of a 10 year plan, hence the "lack of transfer funds" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I actually think we're already in the middle of a 10 year plan, hence the "lack of transfer funds" if that were true i'd be ok with it, would be nice if they told us though. "we're saving for the stadium, ten year plan similar to arsenal, etc" instead it's crickets and we're left to wonder and postulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 if that were true i'd be ok with it, would be nice if they told us though. "we're saving for the stadium, ten year plan similar to arsenal, etc" instead it's crickets and we're left to wonder and postulate. it would be nice, but businesses don't tend to share details of their business plan, it's dangerous. We've been told (for too long, I agree) that there's a plan to sell, there's a plan for a new stadium and that's all we need to know. We're not entitled to business strategy - part of my work contract now and my old one contains a confidentiality agreement, like Everton employees will have. Still doesn't stop any frustration on our part mind you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 it would be nice, but businesses don't tend to share details of their business plan, it's dangerous. We've been told (for too long, I agree) that there's a plan to sell, there's a plan for a new stadium and that's all we need to know. We're not entitled to business strategy - part of my work contract now and my old one contains a confidentiality agreement, like Everton employees will have. Still doesn't stop any frustration on our part mind you yes and no matt. arsenal announced their strategy and everyone knew wenger was skint because they had emirates to pay for. now they don't. same with spurs, they just announced the new stadium with the nfl team. hasn't been built hasn't been started but they're trying to do it and announced their intentions. same with west ham announcing from the outset their were trying to lock up olympic stadium and then getting it. no need for secrecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Agree to disagree mate. I'm not happy with it but there's enough stress in my life without worrying about stuff i can't change markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Agree to disagree mate. I'm not happy with it but there's enough stress in my life without worrying about stuff i can't change lol good point. i guess the walton park would count as an announcement if i'm being generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 lol good point. i guess the walton park would count as an announcement if i'm being generous. it means something is going on, though we've been burnt too many times now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 If there is a plan that would be great, but i think the quick fixes like the various deals we've had within the kit bag deal and their justifications when answered publicly dont show too many signs of long term planning. I also dont trust that Esltone has the ability to see it through if there is one. I was a big fan of his after he followed Wynnes, but just dont have faith in him anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 If there is a plan that would be great, but i think the quick fixes like the various deals we've had within the kit bag deal and their justifications when answered publicly dont show too many signs of long term planning. I also dont trust that Esltone has the ability to see it through if there is one. I was a big fan of his after he followed Wynnes, but just dont have faith in him anymore. The quick fixes were necessary to steady the boat (though the 10 year deal with Kitbag was incredibly short-sighted in retrospect). Agree with the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I don't think they were necessary, they certainly helped at the time, but if there was a leak in the boat fix the leak, don't lease a new boat. All of the outsourcing did fix the problem of our own teams doing poor jobs, but maybe sort out the problems internally to get back to profit. We are now way too dependent on the likes of KitBag and Sudexo because our own operations weren't good enough. If Sudexo decide to put their prices up and we want to pull out, we would have to start match day catering from scratch which would be a huge undertaking, or use another outside firm, again leaving us without the option of making our own money. In the grand scale of things these aren't massive issues, but just signs of taking the easy way out rather than doing things right ourselves. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Matt, they might have a plan? http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/men-tasked-boosting-evertons-commercial-10172572 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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