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Louis

This Qatar 2022 business

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It's become so tedious hasn't it? All the English press report about is the 2022 World Cup, it's received more coverage than 2014 and 2018 combined.

 

FIFA messed up by not making Qatar put forward their bid for a January world cup. Qatar hosted the Asian Cup in January a few years ago, AFC usually change the Asia Cupschedule to suit the climate of the host nation.

 

FIFA have brought the problems on to themselves. If they held another vote which paired off Australia, United States and Qatar (January 2022), and Qatar won again, would that be the end of it?

 

If FIFA move the competition forward five months, they miss out on tv revenue and possibly have to reimburse the bidding nations (I don't personally see why), if they move the competition out of Qatar, they'll have to reimburse Qatar for the stadiums they are building. Personally, I think FIFA'll take the hit from tv revenue, they sold the 2018 and 2022 rights together (USA paid the most at £312m - four times what they were sold for in 2010 - which was a profitable World Cup). It won't matter to them, if they do take the hit, it'll still be a profitable World cup.

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It's become so tedious hasn't it? All the English press report about is the 2022 World Cup, it's received more coverage than 2014 and 2018 combined.

 

FIFA messed up by not making Qatar put forward their bid for a January world cup. Qatar hosted the Asian Cup in January a few years ago, AFC usually change the Asia Cupschedule to suit the climate of the host nation.

 

FIFA have brought the problems on to themselves. If they held another vote which paired off Australia, United States and Qatar (January 2022), and Qatar won again, would that be the end of it?

 

If FIFA move the competition forward five months, they miss out on tv revenue and possibly have to reimburse the bidding nations (I don't personally see why), if they move the competition out of Qatar, they'll have to reimburse Qatar for the stadiums they are building. Personally, I think FIFA'll take the hit from tv revenue, they sold the 2018 and 2022 rights together (USA paid the most at £312m - four times what they were sold for in 2010 - which was a profitable World Cup). It won't matter to them, if they do take the hit, it'll still be a profitable World cup.

 

I guess they wont be bothered as the corrupt lot have had their pockets well and truly lined...

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I just can't see as many people attending the one in Qatar as they would in the USA or Australia, so I can't really see them making a profit -- not that it's all that matters.

I don't think 2022 has much to do with selling tickets, personally I see it more about taking the World Cup to the Middle East.

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I don't care. The easy solution is to move it to another country, that won't happen as the World Cup is nothing but a competition desgined to increase the profits of the organisation running it. Until Platini/Blatter and the other nobs within FIFA/UEFA are gone I genuinly can't get excited about the international competitions. Qatar can be skipped for all I care, I'm not arsed about it.

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I just can't see as many people attending the one in Qatar as they would in the USA or Australia, so I can't really see them making a profit -- not that it's all that matters.

 

I agree with you on that one. If the world cup was held in USA or Australia I would actually go to it. Love the USA and Australia but going to Qatar, never been but not for me.

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I don't think 2022 has much to do with selling tickets, personally I see it more about taking the World Cup to the Middle East.

 

They may be saying that -- and I hate taking the conspiracy-theorist route here -- but I don't believe that's why they truly wanted it there.

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Up until 1998 the World Cup was always held in Europe once every four years, then Mexico / South America each other time, and now you have it littered all over the globe in such far away places like Korea and now this nonsense.

 

Say it every time, but seriously am having enough of the game sometimes. They keep talking about whether to hold the event in summer or winter, and once again, why the fuck was it (Qatar) even considered in the first place. It wasn't viable from the start, but as someone mentioned, it invariably ends in the profits someone can make.

 

Russia was questionable as the other decision, but this is not above stupid. Can you imagine the football world cup being played in the winter ?. Just tarnishes or ridicules the integrity of the competition since it's inception in 1930. Guess this whole stupid issue will go ahead and they'll play it over there, but summer or winter, I don't know what someone was thinking to begin with.

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Wouldn't be surprised at all if that was the case.

I was definitely about the money. All the bungs, bribes and gifts came out in the press before the voting. I can't believe that this has been allowed to happen and FIFA are a joke. The bid wasn't for a winter World Cup and therefore it should be null and void.

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how long till a player dies in daft conditions? mexico world cups were bad enough, but desert conditions? stupity, but yes it was due to bribes

 

There was a player called Peter Swann years back in '62 who nearly died with England when the team traveled to the World Cup in Chile that year I think it was. And they had flown out without a doctor of all things. Mexico 86 was very bad for heat, as was USA 94, but they got to stage the finals somewhere. I think the moment Qatar was decided on as a future World Cup event, sensible soccer had just about breathed it's last breath. No surprise one day they don't hold it in Bolivia at the hottest time of the year, where the heat and altitude will actually cause a fatality. No, they'll be more interested in fucking profits though..

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Guest Nikica

At the time England lost the 2018 World Cup bid I thought it was funny, partly because of the rivalry and partly because it was good to see three clowns like Beckham, William and Cameron thoroughly embarrassed. However, since then and as my emotions have calmed down I've changed my mind. Russia and Qatar were always about greed and corruption, as much in football seems to be now. Neither decision makes any sense, especially Qatar. Russia is a huge country and extremely cold, which makes for a climatic and logisticial nightmare. Qatar's drawbacks are just as big, but in the opposite manner - the place is far too hot and too small for such a huge influx of fans and participants, which leads to this winter nonsense. It would set the football schedule back for a few seasons at least.

 

Despite the above, I don't think it's fair to completely discount a nation based purely on climate and geography, as there's nothing that can really be done about those things - they're a problem but if a country proves it is tolerant and has good infrastructure then they're not always insurmountable. My bigger problem is with the 'tolerance' factor: both Russia and Qatar have extreme issues with some or all of the following: racism, homophobia, alcohol consumption, xenophobia. Now, this is far from exclusive to these countries - most countries have their problems here and if it was always an excluding factor then Switzerland would host every World Cup - but Russia and Qatar are at the extreme end of the scale. Their selections simply make no sense. I'm all for Asia (in the case of Qatar) or other continents getting more World Cups, but at least only green light it if the bidding countries are more tolerant.

 

England or the Portugal/Spain joint candidacy could probably host a World Cup tomorrow - strong enough infrastructure, enough top quality stadia and a history of top level football, with passionate fans (not that the latter is a dealbreaker, but it helps). Russia is the more sensible selection than Qatar due to the 'footballing tradition' factor and the fact that the host nation won't be embarrassed, but in all other ways both selections are as baffling as each other.

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Only wishing to reiterate, I feel the FIFA World Cup should have been limited to europe and the americas only.- which it was, until 2002. - Now they have a desire to send it off to the far most reaches of the world. I can realize soccer is a global sport, but always questioned venues such as South Africa and Japan. Now it's gone on an even more bizarre curve by hosting the damn tournament in bizarre decisions such as Russia and of course what we have here - Qatar.

 

I think for 2002 they should have scrapped the Korea / Japan joint venture and staged in back in the americas, say Argentina or Brazil, and then for 2010, let Mexico host again, or even the United States once more, even if it would appear a little soon after '94.

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Guest Nikica

Only wishing to reiterate, I feel the FIFA World Cup should have been limited to europe and the americas only.- which it was, until 2002. - Now they have a desire to send it off to the far most reaches of the world. I can realize soccer is a global sport, but always questioned venues such as South Africa and Japan. Now it's gone on an even more bizarre curve by hosting the damn tournament in bizarre decisions such as Russia and of course what we have here - Qatar.

 

I think for 2002 they should have scrapped the Korea / Japan joint venture and staged in back in the americas, say Argentina or Brazil, and then for 2010, let Mexico host again, or even the United States once more, even if it would appear a little soon after '94.

 

While my earlier post implies that I agree with what you say in regards to Russia and Qatar, I feel there's a bit of 'Western superiority' in this. My issue isn't with Africa and Asia getting WCs - it's with these particular nations getting them (and a large part of Russia is geographically in Europe anyway, and in football terms it is a member of UEFA, so that shows that even when the voting does award it to Europe as you demand, they still sometimes get it wrong).

 

The reason Asia and Africa never received a WC until 2002 is because they were emerging football markets, as well as still being developing continents for the most part. There was nothing wrong with Japan and South Korea co-hosting in 2002 imo - they did very well generally, put on a good tournament, and I can't recall there being any major issues (and bear in mind this was less than a year after 9/11 so the planet was in a major state of panic in terms of major global events). Those two countries tend to be more developed than most of Asia anyway - indeed, Japan is a very developed country, with a strong economy as well as being leaders in technology. Tokyo is also one of the three 'global cities' and economic centres alongside New York and London (which made it even more of a target in the post 9/11 world) so there was no problem with the Japanese and Korean Republic hosting the tournament, from an economic and social perspective.

 

In terms of on the park - how are Africa and Asia supposed to progress if we don't let them host the tournaments? They have same rights Europe and the Americas do. South Africa was a disgrace socially as many were being thrown out of their homes to fund the tournament, but then the same is happening in Brazil and has happened in most World Cups, so corruption isn't exclusive to those continents. The main issue with Qatar isn't that it is not in Europe or the Americas, it's the lack of tolerance, climate issues and land mass which are the problems - all factors which apply to plenty of European and Americas nations, including fellow hosts Russia, as stated above. Colombia had to back out of hosting the '86 tournament and Brazil is still beind schedule so it's not like Europe and South America are perfect. Not having a dig, I just felt that this should be addressed.

 

As for the States, you're going to bid for 2026 I believe, and Uruguay-Argentina are putting in a joint bid for 2030 to celebrate the tournament's centenary, so there's a strong chance that it won't be too long before it's back in the Americas. 32 years between USA 94 and another USA World Cup would be fine as that was the number of years between, for example, Germany hosting in 1974 and then 2006.

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Uruguay and Argentina co-hosting won't happen. That's a bit like saying West Ham and Millwall will take turns to accomodate one day. No love lost there. I don't know if I'll be able to witness the US hosting again in 2026 if we can stage it, but I read what you presented, and as with recent events, it was a fair point that I obviously overlooked. I did say I was tired.

 

I don't know why they never gave Canada the honor of staging the damn event. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal etc, you got scope there for viable tournaments with suitable stadia. Shame they never got to host a tournament, and Australia also - seeing as they're now branching out into Asia, why not Oceania. Even a joint venture with New Zealand would seem feasible.

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Guest Nikica

Uruguay and Argentina co-hosting won't happen. That's a bit like saying West Ham and Millwall will take turns to accomodate one day. No love lost there. I don't know if I'll be able to witness the US hosting again in 2026 if we can stage it, but I read what you presented, and as with recent events, it was a fair point that I obviously overlooked. I did say I was tired.

 

I don't know why they never gave Canada the honor of staging the damn event. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal etc, you got scope there for viable tournaments with suitable stadia. Shame they never got to host a tournament, and Australia also - seeing as they're now branching out into Asia, why not Oceania. Even a joint venture with New Zealand would seem feasible.

 

I've kept fairly up to speed with it somewhat and apparently FIFA really want Uruguay-Argentina to happen to mark the centenary (as Uruguay hosted the inaugural tournament as we all know, and beat the Argies in the final), and the nations are both receptive to it as well. They hate each other in sporting terms, yeah, but that probably won't be a barrier. They know neither of them can host it individually so I'm sure they're more than willing to collaborate.

 

Don't worry about being tired - you made some fair points anyway, and we all overlook things - especially when fatigued.

 

Funny that you mention Canada, because I read somewhere that they've announced that they too will bid for 2026, but wasn't sure on the validity of the source. They would be a good candidate, as long as the game were played close to the US border, as they have the same issues as Russia in terms of cold and land mass! As for the USA, I actually think their bid might be a joint one with Mexico, so if that's true it simply reinforces my point regarding the alleged Uruguay-Argentina bid. Three times hosting for Mexico is taking the piss a bit though, even if one of those was simply as a stand-in.

 

Totally agree about Australia - has a nice blend of being an already developed country who can easily host the tournament, but also being a growing nation in terms of football. Problems again with climate and size, but most habitation is on the coast anyway, and the heat can be overcome. Would love to see them get a tournament, by themselves or with the Kiwis as you say.

 

When talking football I tend to think of AFC and OFC as one, and now that Australia has joined the former from the latter it would count as an Asian World Cup from a footballing perspective anyway. The reason I don't mention Oceania above is that it's such a weak confederation that it didn't seem to merit a mention anyway. As I say, with Australia now being part of AFC the only way OFC can get a tournament is with NZ co-hosting with the Aussies.

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There was a call for it to be held during the winter, but it clashes with the Winter Olympics so it'll be planned around that too.

 

When Qatar hosted the Asian Cup in 2011, it was moved to January from July.

 

I don't have a problem with it being held in Winter, but the way it was handled by FIFA was poor. They should have been up front about wanting a Winter World Cup or had bidders announce the proposed dates along with the world cup bids. Even then, that isn't perfect because Qatar are happy with a July world cup, it's others who aren't.

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At which stage of the bribery process, I mean bidding process did those fat cats at fifa consider factors such as heat? Have they even considered the culture for visiting fans etc?

 

My guess would be no. I'm more worried about that rather than the heat.

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At which stage of the bribery process, I mean bidding process did those fat cats at fifa consider factors such as heat? Have they even considered the culture for visiting fans etc?

James Corbett (the Evertonian journalist who wrote 'School of Science') was covering the story a media outlet, he asked if those voting on the bids read the bid documents and was told that they didn't. FIFA delegates literally choose a nation without knowing the details.

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You can't have the FIFA World Cup in the winter..

 

Or maybe you can, so say the fucking idiots that gave the asinine decision to award Qatar the honor to begin with.

 

This is just another example of having lost so much interest in the game the last few years, the mess things have now become.

 

The world cup was never the same once they took it to Asia and then South Africa. This Qatar nonsense just adds insult to injury. Kind of hope by the time they go ahead with this, would have lost enough interest so wouldn't care less if they played it in summer,winter, spring, fall, or on the moon.

 

As was mentioned, it would all seem in keeping with someone making profits and the greed of the game over commonsense and simple soccer enjoyment. Of course people will still tune in, but it's a sad state of affairs - hugely disappointing.

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Anyone know if the latest news means a break in the season or us all playing with the reserves for 2 months?

 

Knowing FIFA - probably not

 

This issue seems all but confirmed, and can only reiterate the disappointment of them going ahead with this stupid idea.

 

Made all the worse by the fucking idiots behind this mess that say "we brought it forward (into end of year) because the summer temperatures would have been unbearable"

 

Simple solution before time - don't award the goddamn country the venue in the first place

 

Don't suffer fools much, but these fucking loons are a new breed..

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Guest Nikica

It's getting ridiculous now isn't it? There's also the issue of slave labour and throwing people out of their homes - happens at all World Cups and is unacceptable, but Qatar seems to be taking things to new levels.

 

I love the World Cup purely because of its history and the spectacle but I think I will boycott this as well. In fact we should probably give Russia a miss too.

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I've kept fairly up to speed with it somewhat and apparently FIFA really want Uruguay-Argentina to happen to mark the centenary (as Uruguay hosted the inaugural tournament as we all know, and beat the Argies in the final), and the nations are both receptive to it as well. They hate each other in sporting terms, yeah, but that probably won't be a barrier. They know neither of them can host it individually so I'm sure they're more than willing to collaborate.

 

Don't worry about being tired - you made some fair points anyway, and we all overlook things - especially when fatigued.

 

Funny that you mention Canada, because I read somewhere that they've announced that they too will bid for 2026, but wasn't sure on the validity of the source. They would be a good candidate, as long as the game were played close to the US border, as they have the same issues as Russia in terms of cold and land mass! As for the USA, I actually think their bid might be a joint one with Mexico, so if that's true it simply reinforces my point regarding the alleged Uruguay-Argentina bid. Three times hosting for Mexico is taking the piss a bit though, even if one of those was simply as a stand-in.

 

Totally agree about Australia - has a nice blend of being an already developed country who can easily host the tournament, but also being a growing nation in terms of football. Problems again with climate and size, but most habitation is on the coast anyway, and the heat can be overcome. Would love to see them get a tournament, by themselves or with the Kiwis as you say.

 

When talking football I tend to think of AFC and OFC as one, and now that Australia has joined the former from the latter it would count as an Asian World Cup from a footballing perspective anyway. The reason I don't mention Oceania above is that it's such a weak confederation that it didn't seem to merit a mention anyway. As I say, with Australia now being part of AFC the only way OFC can get a tournament is with NZ co-hosting with the Aussies.

 

Little late to the party replying to this, but...

 

There is one signficant issue that Canada would have to deal with if they're going to bid - they don't have an independent domestic pro league. A few clubs in MLS and a few scattered semipro clubs, but that's it. FIFA's made it clear in the past that they want nations hosting the World Cup to have either a viable domestic league or at least a plan in place for one (that's a big part of how MLS got started in the first place - part of the package that the US presented in their WC '94 bid was a pledge to get a new pro league up and running), and I don't think Canada's minor participation in MLS would be enough for them. I don't think weather will be an issue there, though. With the exception of Edmonton, pretty much all of Canada's largest cities are within about 150 miles of the US border, and they all have average June temperatures that are generally between 18-24 degrees celsius during the day, dropping down to around 10-14 degrees celsius at night (that's about 65-75 in the day and low to mid-50s at night, if you prefer Fahrenheit temperatures).

 

As for Australia, don't forget that seasons are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere, so if they're hosting a World Cup at the usual time (June-July) it would be late fall/winter for them and heat won't be a factor.

 

Oceania won't be hosting any World Cups for a long, long time, if ever. Their only realistic chance to do it was when Australia was still in the federation - New Zealand doesn't have the infrastructure (again, like Canada, they have no independent, fully professional domestic league) or. probably. the money to do it by themselves, and I don't know if they'd even be allowed to pursue a joint bid with Australia anymore since they're in two different federations. The idea of anyone else in Oceania trying to host one of these tournaments is a complete non-starter, unless France suddenly got the urge to fully underwrite a World Cup in Tahiti or something (hey, I'd go!).

 

In general, I think we're going to start seeing more and more of these joint World Cup bids in the future. Like the Olympics, it's starting to get so enormous and so expensive that there are only a handful of countries in the world who'll have the financial resources to host the thing solo without bankrupting themselves (and half of them are places like China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia that you probably wouldn't want hosting a World Cup anyway). Besides, why put 100% of the tax burden for it on your own citizens if you can find a willing partner to split the cost with?

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All these people complaining still have the option of not competing. Not saying the conditions are right, because they clearly aren't but it makes me laugh that they know what its going to be like but still turn up.

 

Bit harsh don't u think? Would your opinion be a little different if England announced their squad for 2022 and a string of players decided not to go because of the heat? After all it's their choice right?

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No it wouldnt tbh.

 

They keep saying its inhumane etc to play in such conditions yet they sign up each year for the paycheck/glory. They arent playing for a team, they are playing for themselves. There are plenty of opportunities in other tournaments for them to win so if they think its poorly managed in regards to the heat and they keep telling us that its wrong then the simple answer is to not turn up. Im sure the organisers would take note. If they are going to turn up and take the glory/money knowing what they are going to experience then they should keep their mouth shut and get on with it.

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No it wouldnt tbh.

 

They keep saying its inhumane etc to play in such conditions yet they sign up each year for the paycheck/glory. They arent playing for a team, they are playing for themselves. There are plenty of opportunities in other tournaments for them to win so if they think its poorly managed in regards to the heat and they keep telling us that its wrong then the simple answer is to not turn up. Im sure the organisers would take note. If they are going to turn up and take the glory/money knowing what they are going to experience then they should keep their mouth shut and get on with it.

Below the top 40, the rest have to play. Not that much money in the sport for the ones that just make up the numbers.

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If a player/team boycotted an event, they would likely be barred from playing in other tournaments. It's not just about the money; it's about their future in the sport.

I very much doubt it. The players would be able to take them to court if they even tried it.

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The reputation of The World Cup and the suggestion that football is a sport or even the greatest game on earth is pie in the sky. It was finally completely killed off as representing either sport or a game the moment it was revealed this debacle is to be held in Qatar, regardless of what time of year they decide to have it.

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surely something needs to be done about this shower, they are a complete disgrace. The country that invented the game has held the finals once. Italy, France, Mexico?!, Brazil, Germany, will all have held it twice as at this year....

 

Not only that though we have had a solid bid declined and instead the honour going to Russia? A country with poor human rights who surely based on the current ongoings may not be suitable. We previously lost out to the successful Germany bid.

 

Simple as this, FIFA do not like England.

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Sad thing is it happens at the highest levels in every sport and has done for many years, perhaps always. International cricket, for example, is totally corrupt.

 

Some of the corruption in football is subtle and some is blatant "you can't touch us" and they're unconcerned while people complain about it. It's the blatant which is hardest to take as it is the fans who are funding it.

 

 

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Doesn't this give us the opportunity to solve the problem of playing in the intense heat? If the bid was won through corruption, then award the games to another country.

*cough* Yanks *cough* :P. I would do anything for the World Cup to be hosted here. Unfortunately, I was 1-2 years old back in 94 so I was only able to sit in front of the TV to watch it :)

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There was no logical reason whatsoever for the World Cup to be awarded to Qatar, It was all about money. Qatar bought the World Cup and a fair bit of the money didn't end up in FIFA's bank account either.

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Guest Nikica

 

Little late to the party replying to this, but...

 

There is one signficant issue that Canada would have to deal with if they're going to bid - they don't have an independent domestic pro league. A few clubs in MLS and a few scattered semipro clubs, but that's it. FIFA's made it clear in the past that they want nations hosting the World Cup to have either a viable domestic league or at least a plan in place for one (that's a big part of how MLS got started in the first place - part of the package that the US presented in their WC '94 bid was a pledge to get a new pro league up and running), and I don't think Canada's minor participation in MLS would be enough for them. I don't think weather will be an issue there, though. With the exception of Edmonton, pretty much all of Canada's largest cities are within about 150 miles of the US border, and they all have average June temperatures that are generally between 18-24 degrees celsius during the day, dropping down to around 10-14 degrees celsius at night (that's about 65-75 in the day and low to mid-50s at night, if you prefer Fahrenheit temperatures).

 

As for Australia, don't forget that seasons are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere, so if they're hosting a World Cup at the usual time (June-July) it would be late fall/winter for them and heat won't be a factor.

 

Oceania won't be hosting any World Cups for a long, long time, if ever. Their only realistic chance to do it was when Australia was still in the federation - New Zealand doesn't have the infrastructure (again, like Canada, they have no independent, fully professional domestic league) or. probably. the money to do it by themselves, and I don't know if they'd even be allowed to pursue a joint bid with Australia anymore since they're in two different federations. The idea of anyone else in Oceania trying to host one of these tournaments is a complete non-starter, unless France suddenly got the urge to fully underwrite a World Cup in Tahiti or something (hey, I'd go!).

 

In general, I think we're going to start seeing more and more of these joint World Cup bids in the future. Like the Olympics, it's starting to get so enormous and so expensive that there are only a handful of countries in the world who'll have the financial resources to host the thing solo without bankrupting themselves (and half of them are places like China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia that you probably wouldn't want hosting a World Cup anyway). Besides, why put 100% of the tax burden for it on your own citizens if you can find a willing partner to split the cost with?

 

Hi mate, sorry I missed this at the time...

 

Quality post, and you've covered all of the issues. Yeah, I can't believe I overlooked the fact that Australia is in the Southern hemisphere rookie error!

 

Just to reiterate, great post mate. Would like to hear any further thoughts you have on the issue.

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"Garcia has spent more than a year and £6m travelling the world to interview those involved in the race to host the 2018 and 2022 tournaments and investigate allegations of bribery and corruption.

He has interviewed representatives from all nine of the bidding nations, including a summit with a Qatari delegation on Monday. His findings will inform the Fifa president Sepp Blatter's decision on whether to order a revote."

 

Whats Garcias next job? Visiting Bernhard Matthews factory and asking the turkeys if the want to cancel Christmas?

 

I think we along with rest of Europe should boycott that world cup and have another Euro championships tournament.

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For what it's worth Blatter doesn't want it held in Qatar. Personally, I don't see a problem with it being held in the Middle East but it's got to be done at a time when it's safe for players to play and fans to visit. I've probably said it already but the Asian Cup moved from July to January when it was held in Qatar, I don't see what the fuss is about. Personally, if it is removed from Qatar (unlikely), FIFA should make it clear that the 2026 version will be held in January which would allow different types of nations to bid.

 

I think Platini has partially ruined the Euros by increasing the number of teams to 24. He should've introduced a qualifying competition for the 'lesser' teams similar to the AFC Challenge Cup (which ironically has just ended for the last time as AFC have also decided they want 24 teams in the Asian Cup).

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