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Finn balor

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Pienaar wasn't bad today, necessarily. But, he gave a few away from carelessness and not being mentally awake. That's the difference for me.

 

Nobody looked worse with the ball at their feet than Distin today though. Even worse than Howard I'd say. What I would give to have a central defender who is solid defensively and can actually create something.

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Then I've watched a different Pienaar. Nearly every pass misplaced, touch was awful and made the wrong decision on many occasions...

 

How he lasted 90 minutes is beyond me.

 

 

He was showing for the ball every time and was trying to create things, if every pass he made came off he wouldn't be playing for Everton

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Guest rusty747

We did have a bit of luck today insofaras we were not punished for giving the ball away too easily in dangerous (for us) positions. I don't think either side showed top 4 form today and a draw was about the right result. I agree that Gerry should start against Palace next week. He was a threat going forward and helped Coleman out defensively much more than Mirallas did. It could be time to give youth it's chance next week and start both Gerry and Ross. I would also think about giving John Stones a run out at Centre Back, possibly in place of Distin.

On the positive side, one defeat in ten, a point off second place and 2 very winnable games to come.

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Martinez is proving to be a lucky manager.

 

That isn't a compliment. We need to rethink our strategy as we are starting to look more like Wigan than Everton.

You are joking? We have lost one game this season, we are scoring goals(admittedly letting a few in) in the top 7 competing against and holding teams who have spent shed loads more (again) than us, he can tactically change a match, and to be fair he's only managed 10 games for us, pretty good going.

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That first half was horrendous. I don't think we've played worse than that under Martinez. We played pass and move, except we couldn't pass and nobody was moving! We were lucky if we managed to put three passes together throughout that first 45 minutes. And when we did have the ball we couldn't get a thing going because no one was moving for the man in possession, so we'd invariably end up playing ourselves into trouble and inviting Spurs to press us even harder. We were unbelievably slow in everything we did and the difference between the two sides was stark. They'd get the ball and instantly they'd come at us, there was no fannying about, they stretched us all over the pitch, dragging us from one side to the other to create space. We'd get the ball, have to stop, have a look round, stay still still a few seconds longer, pass sideways or backwards and go nowhere. Another massive problem we had was that our two wide men were fucking shite at being wide men! The pair of them constantly drifted inside and left our right back and left back to be double teamed. Vertonghan had an absolute field day. It didn't help us going forward either because how do you create and overlap when there's no one there to make one?! They should have created far more chances than they actually did and we were fortunate to go in on level terms. But it did actually bode quite well; we were dominated but it was still 0-0 and we couldn't possibly play any worse than that.

 

Martinez must have tore them a new arsehole at half time because we looked far better in the second half. It still wasn't great but at least we had more energy in our play and we actually managed to create chances. Which were something I'd begun to forget! The real change in our play came when Barkley and Deulofeu came on though. In these two we now had players who were willing to drive forward with the ball and take the game to Spurs, rather than pussy foot around. These were the attributes we'd been crying out for and had been sorely missing from the first half showing. We were much the better side in the second half because of this and Spurs settled for the point quite early on in the half I thought, and I felt quite at ease in terms of worrying about us conceding. They only really wanted to break up our momentum by getting play stopped regularly and were only looking to play on the break. I was quite disappointed with that from a side that's spent so much and is supposedly looking to challenge towards the top of the league.

 

I'd have taken a point before the game and it probably was a fair result, and it's another clean sheet against a side with a lot of attacking threat. But, we must follow this up by beating Palace next weekend or this point won't look so good.

 

Lastly, the ref was dog shit.

 

 

Howard - His kicking was on the dodgy side but he also made a few good stops.

 

 

Coleman - He's not looking good lately is he? Today was no different. Apart from when he should have had a penalty he didn't offer much going forward (not entirely his fault) and my heart was in my mouth whenever he was defending.

 

Jagielka - I thought he was pretty solid today, much better than our last game, that's for sure. The only thing that was wrong with his play were those stupid aimless punts forward when there's no need for them.

 

Distin - His defending was pretty good today but whenever he had the ball at his feet I wanted to hide. Halloween's been and gone, Sylvain, so stop giving me nightmares!

 

Baines - Pretty invisible in the first half but I thought he looked closer to his attacking best in the second half, and a lot of our play came through in some way.

 

 

Mirallas - Absolutely awful. Did he do anything right? Every time he got the ball he lost it, he was as weak as a baby when challenging for the ball, he let Vertonghan have free reign to run at Coleman because he was nowhere to be found. He needs a kick up the arse.

 

McCarthy - I thought he started the game really well and won the ball back on two or three occasions early on. But then he got that booking, which I don't think was a booking, and he then disappeared from the game. But second half I thought he really stepped up and put a great performance in for us. He was all over the pitch, he used the ball intelligently and he got himself into space time and time again, he dropped back to receive the ball from the defence, his movement was top quality, he also put himself about despite being on a booking. My only niggle with him is that I wish he'd drive forward a bit more with the ball. Still gets my MOTM vote though.

 

Barry - Quiet but effective I thought.

 

Pienaar - I just wanted to strangle him tbh. In the first half I thought he shite, full stop, really. Second half he was more infuriating than anything. He did so well to get himself in really good positions time after time, but probably 9 times out 10 he'd fuck things up with an awful pass, or a stupid flick when a simple pass would do. It's all good and well to create an opening, but he's there to follow through on that, not completely mess it up. He's better than that and we wants players that are better than that.

 

 

Osman - His passing was waaaaaaaay off today. And he really struggled to ever really get into the game. Today is just further proof that he should be a player that only comes off the bench for us now, or starts games where we're likely to have a lot of time and space.

 

 

Lukaku - Service to him was pretty hopeless but I still thought he managed to look fairly good. He had to create things himself, but they just didn't work out for him. He won countless headers up there, and many more defensively as well. He used his strength well at times too. I hope his injury isn't anything serious because I fancy him to bag a couple against Palace.

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You are joking? We have lost one game this season, we are scoring goals(admittedly letting a few in) in the top 7 competing against and holding teams who have spent shed loads more (again) than us, he can tactically change a match, and to be fair he's only managed 10 games for us, pretty good going.

 

Nope.

 

Not joking at all. Some fans are easily pleased by the fact we are doing ok (7th) points wise, but we have to take the blinkers off and look at things honestly.

 

Yes, we are picking points up, but our performances have been well below the standard that we were playing under Moyes.

 

Take Lukaku away, and what have we done? Add Lukaku to Moyes team and we would have pushed that top 4. Not good enough by a long way, and those that think it's acceptable are letting themselves down.

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Guest rusty747

Well said Mogsy. I like Martinez. He is a lot more than just a nice guy. He is tactically very astute, has great man management and PR skills, plays the game the right way and is held in high enough regard by teams such as Barcelona that they are happy to send us players on loan. With support and patience Martinez may prove to be one of the best signings Everton Football Club has ever made.

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I gave myself a red mark too just to show how pathetic some people are who give rep instead of a reply. :doh:

 

That's what the arrows are there for,

 

If someone thinks that a post is so daft that it's not worth a response then it's a simple way of expressing that opinion :).

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Nope.

 

Not joking at all. Some fans are easily pleased by the fact we are doing ok (7th) points wise, but we have to take the blinkers off and look at things honestly.

 

Yes, we are picking points up, but our performances have been well below the standard that we were playing under Moyes.

 

Take Lukaku away, and what have we done? Add Lukaku to Moyes team and we would have pushed that top 4. Not good enough by a long way, and those that think it's acceptable are letting themselves down.

A. Moyes probably wouldn't have got lukaku on loan

 

B. He would have played him on the wing or something

 

Martinez has been with us ten games, we are doing half decent in the league, things are changing in the way we play it'll take time! Moyes has gone, time to move on!

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Well said Mogsy. I like Martinez. He is a lot more than just a nice guy. He is tactically very astute, has great man management and PR skills, plays the game the right way and is held in high enough regard by teams such as Barcelona that they are happy to send us players on loan. With support and patience Martinez may prove to be one of the best signings Everton Football Club has ever made.

 

How is he playing the game the right way?

 

I will agree he might be 'trying' to get us to play the game the right way, but we are 'not' doing it .

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A. Moyes probably wouldn't have got lukaku on loan

 

B. He would have played him on the wing or something

 

Martinez has been with us ten games, we are doing half decent in the league, things are changing in the way we play it'll take time! Moyes has gone, time to move on!

 

A & B are childish Mogsy.

 

I like Martinez, and I'm sure in time he will do well here, but at the moment I'm frustrated by comments that all is positive, because we are playing some pretty dire stuff.

 

I don't think we've had a game yet were we have been good in both halves. That first half 'must' be taken into account, as should the 2nd half against City and so on. I'm the first to praise the players when we do well, but to accept a performance like today, is not I my locker, and it must be improved.

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Seventeen points from the last twenty one available and a point off second place. Hope we carry on playing this badly all season.

Agree with MikeO. The best thing is that we are one point off second place and we are not playing at our best. It takes time to adapt to a new system and the lads are doing fine without being at their best. What will happen when the team starts to gel? What will happen when Mirallas, Coleman, Baines and Pienaar find their form?

 

We have a real shot of a top 4 finish this year and on target points wise.

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Guest rusty747

Ok Avin, I take your point. Pleased to see you agree that we are trying to play the game the right way. I agree with you that it is not always working, and when it doesn't work it can look pretty grim. But that is all part of the transition process that Bobby M is overseeing. It's not going to be perfect overnight. What I found pleasing today was that Bobby had the tactical nous to make the right changes at a sensible time and we were certainly much better in the second half. But I do agree that if we are to mount a credible top 4 challenge we have to play well for 90 mins not ok for 45.

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Seventeen points from the last twenty one available and a point off second place. Hope we carry on playing this badly all season.

 

 

 

What the hell do points have to do with performance?

 

 

I think the point is that despite not performing at our best consistently we've still done well for ourselves. No one is under any illusions that we're playing brilliantly all of the time, but most understand that it will take some time until we reach the point where we're totally satisfied and are focusing on the positives. I thought that would be something you would be fully behind tbh, Avin, as you're usually someone who looks on the bright side.

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What the hell do points have to do with performance?

 

:rofl:. I'd rather we play like shit and win than play well and lose. We're looking better now than we have at any point under Moyes, truly baffling how you can say anything other than 'well done' to Martinez.

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Martinez is proving to be a lucky manager.

 

That isn't a compliment. We need to rethink our strategy as we are starting to look more like Wigan than Everton.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the point is that despite not performing at our best consistently we've still done well for ourselves. No one is under any illusions that we're playing brilliantly all of the time, but most understand that it will take some time until we reach the point where we're totally satisfied and are focusing on the positives. I thought that would be something you would be fully behind tbh, Avin, as you're usually someone who looks on the bright side.

 

Hence my lucky manager comment.

 

We don't have the players to play Ole football on a consistent basis. Once Martinez brings in players for that style he might get closer to where he wants to be.

At the moment we are scraping results. To those who look at our results on match of the day or in the newspaper, our points tally may suggest we are playing well, but for those of us who watch every game we are hit or miss.

 

10 games in and not a single convincing performance over 90 minutes. We need a better squad, so the likes of Osman and Mirallas have real pressure to perform. I see us passing the ball about ok when things are going well for us, but a few bad passes and our arses twitch, and when we are pressed we can't play the passing game under pressure.

 

Tactician wise, we play the same players every week, be it from the start, or as a sub, so not sure that shows much use of our squad. The same guys are getting taken off, yet they start again the following week.

 

Mirallas has been subbed 7 times this season, yet still starts every game. I'd like Martinez to explain that one, as I remember fans used to slate Moyes for having his favourites.

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:rofl:. I'd rather we play like shit and win than play well and lose. We're looking better now than we have at any point under Moyes, truly baffling how you can say anything other than 'well done' to Martinez.

 

That's why your opinion rarely interests me. There has to be a degree of entertainment value as a fan or why watch?

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:rofl:. I'd rather we play like shit and win than play well and lose. We're looking better now than we have at any point under Moyes, truly baffling how you can say anything other than 'well done' to Martinez.

 

 

Todays performance was really better than anything you've seen in the past 10 years?????

 

Im with Romey on this one , Im glad we are churning out results despite not playing well and its obviously going to take time for us to settle into the way Martinez wants us to play. We are a work in progress at the moment and I think there are bound to be some inconsistent display's along the way. For me it was an appalling first half, at least we didn't concede, but at least when he got them in at half time whatever he said worked and we looked much better in the second half

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That's why your opinion rarely interests me. There has to be a degree of entertainment value as a fan or why watch?

I really don't understand how you can claim that Moyes would have had us in top 4 if he had Lukaku during his time with us when he's not doing it with RVP and a ManU squad that won the league last season.

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I really don't understand how you can claim that Moyes would have had us in top 4 if he had Lukaku during his time with us when he's not doing it with RVP and a ManU squad that won the league last season.

 

Let me try and help

 

Point A . Everton have been consistent European challengers without a proven goal scorer

 

Point B. A 20 goal a season forward is worth at least 10 points

 

 

Add the extra 10 points to point A and you get a top 4 side

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Av, I don't really think it's fair to say Martinez isn't using the squad and that players are getting picked despite playing badly.

 

Martinez has consistently used his bench well by making game changing subs and making subs with enough time to make a difference.

 

Osman had had a few bad games and was dropped. Barkley had shown poor form and was dropped. Mirallas is a bit different because there's only really Deulofeu who can come in to replace him as an effective winger and it's fair that Martinez doesn't want to chuck him in in the wrong game and Martinez would have more trust in a senior player like Mirallas. Mirallas has abused that trust.

 

I don't think you can really level the playing favourites tag at him after only 10 games! He's still learning about the players he has to work with so it stands to reason that he's going to give each of them a fair chance before dumping them.

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That's why your opinion rarely interests me. There has to be a degree of entertainment value as a fan or why watch?

 

If we play like shit and win we have three points - what's better than that?

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I really don't understand how you can claim that Moyes would have had us in top 4 if he had Lukaku during his time with us when he's not doing it with RVP and a ManU squad that won the league last season.

 

United aren't Everton Tonk. The season also has another 28 games to go, so not sure you should write Moyes off too quickly.

 

When we played last season, and a few before that, we played some outstanding football, but our strikers weren't finding the net. We drew 15 games and went on to miss top 4 by 10 points. I believe a better striker would have gotten us there.

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United aren't Everton Tonk. The season also has another 28 games to go, so not sure you should write Moyes off too quickly.

 

When we played last season, and a few before that, we played some outstanding football, but our strikers weren't finding the net. We drew 15 games and went on to miss top 4 by 10 points. I believe a better striker would have gotten us there.

 

Kinda shot yourself in the foot there Avin. A better striker would have got us to the top 4, Moyes failed time and time again to do that (Johnson, Beattie, Yakubu) yet Martinez finds Lukaku within his first few months of managing us.

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United aren't Everton Tonk. The season also has another 28 games to go, so not sure you should write Moyes off too quickly.

 

When we played last season, and a few before that, we played some outstanding football, but our strikers weren't finding the net. We drew 15 games and went on to miss top 4 by 10 points. I believe a better striker would have gotten us there.

United aren't Everton? Oh okay, Thanks for reminding me.

 

Point is: both are managers new to a club yet the one who inherited the better squad is doing worse.

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Kinda shot yourself in the foot there Avin. A better striker would have got us to the top 4, Moyes failed time and time again to do that (Johnson, Beattie, Yakubu) yet Martinez finds Lukaku within his first few months of managing us.

 

Firstly, let's stop bucking Lukaku up.

 

He has scored 5 goals. He hasn't had a full season yet. Let's see how he does with the remaining games.

 

Jelly started well too remember.

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United aren't Everton? Oh okay, Thanks for reminding me.

 

Point is: both are managers new to a club yet the one who inherited the better squad is doing worse.

And one of those is a 30 goal striker, yet they're playing worse football and earned less points.

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Let me try and help

 

Point A .   Everton have been consistent European challengers without a proven goal scorer  

 

Point B.    A 20 goal a season forward is worth at least 10 points

 

 

Add the extra 10 points to point A and you get a top 4 side

Thanks for the "help."

 

A. Moyes is in control of a team that consistently competes for European trophies that also has a 20 goal-a-season striker(RVP, and we all know Rooney can score 20)

 

B. ManU is playing worse than we are this season.

 

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United aren't Everton? Oh okay, Thanks for reminding me.

 

Point is: both are managers new to a club yet the one who inherited the better squad is doing worse.

 

Tonk, your United point is irrelevant. The debate is would Moyes have done it with Everton if he had Lukaku. Whatever he does at United has no bearing to the debate.

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I love the way everyone was not expecting anything this season due to transitions.... Ten games later we are giving down the banks to a team that is be point off second place.....get a grip lads!.... People say we are lucky. Please tell me again what happened in this fixture last year...... I think some people would be happy with us playing like barca and bottom of the league.... We ride our luck like the red shite have for years... About time too.

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And one of those is a 30 goal striker, yet they're playing worse football and earned less points.

 

Do you think United without Van Persie and Rooney would be better than Everton with them?

 

In other words, their attacking prowess was the main difference between our teams. The rest of our first eleven versus the rest of their first eleven would make an interesting discussion about who was best.

 

Everton 'with' those 2 strikers would have won the league in my opinion last year.

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Do you think United without Van Persie and Rooney would be better than Everton with them?

 

In other words, their attacking prowess was the main difference between our teams. The rest of our first eleven versus the rest of their first eleven would make an interesting discussion about who was best.

 

Everton 'with' those 2 strikers would have won the league in my opinion last year.

I think the managers were the biggest difference. Everton with SAF in charge would have had a better chance imo.

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Played as good as the rest of them and did well with what little service he had. Either way so far he's been the best striker of any in the Moyes era.

 

He's not playing in the Moyes Era Zoo. :doh:

When at the end of the season he has scored more than Yakubu did then you might have a point. Until then, it's speculation.

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we shouldn't be to disheartened beacause the shite were shite start of last season but it pains me to say it but there playing some good football but I think we will still beat them 2-0 all we need is a couple of players upfront and a decent tricky winger and a ozil type of player

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I think the managers were the biggest difference. Everton with SAF in charge would have had a better chance imo.

 

Ferguson has been a hugely successful manager, but for all his success, he has only managed one Prem team, who just so happened to be the richest Prem club for most of that time, so we won't know if he would have done anything at another club, especially a poor one like Everton. My guess is that Moyes will have success at United given time. He needs to know his players and how to use them. Saf had 26 years of adding to what he already knew, so it's fair to say Moyes will struggle at first, or anybody else.

 

Let's see how Moyes and indeed Bobby are doing once the 25 players are of their choosing, as at the moment, Martinez is using Moyes' players, and Moyes is using Fergies.

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Tonk, your United point is irrelevant. The debate is would Moyes have done it with Everton if he had Lukaku. Whatever he does at United has no bearing to the debate.

No. Moyes destroyed a striker's ability to score somehow.

 

What he does at United does have a bit of a bearing. He has the 20 goals/year striker, and according to your theory, they should be leading the league (since he would have done it with a team not considered as skilled or deep in depth -- Everton).

 

It's only irrelevant to you because it pokes a hole in your argument.

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Didn't say he was? :wacko: . If you're going to argue at least try to do so with some form of intelligence.

 

You wrote:

 

Either way so far he's been the best striker of any in the Moyes era.

 

 

I think it's time to log off.

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No. Moyes destroyed a striker's ability to score somehow.

 

What he does at United does have a bit of a bearing. He has the 20 goals/year striker, and according to your theory, they should be leading the league (since he would have done it with a team not considered as skilled or deep in depth -- Everton).

 

It's only irrelevant to you because it pokes a hole in your argument.

 

I give up.

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Are you guys really arguing about our performances this season? About the manager? Style of play? Players used? Have a word. There aint one team in the league that hasnt had a bad game or two.

 

Today, first half we were shit. Utter shit. No need to compare to this, that, him, her....we were just shit. Because it happens.

 

But, while we are pointing the finger and talkin about bein shit...lets take a look at the Goodison 'faithful' today. Who were also shit. Ive travelled down to that game today, and yet again am dissapointed at the total lack of atmosphere. Spurs fans were loud n happy all game...it took to around the 50th minute for the first full on Everton chant to take off, and it was short lived.

 

Whats goin on? I think thats 3 games in a row like that for me. Im starting to get a complex, have I upset 30000 blue noses?!

 

 

Its terrible. All we did was grumble. Boo. Hiss.

 

Abslute bollocks it was...shameful.

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You wrote:

 

 

I think it's time to log off.

 

 

 

 

Played as good as the rest of them and did well with what little service he had. Either way so far he's been the best striker of any in the Moyes era.

 

He's better than any striker in the Moyes era.

 

In other words; he's better than Johnson, Yakubu, Beattie etc...

 

It's not my fault that you have the IQ of a swiss roll Avin. Go and attempt to bully someone on your own forum you tit.

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He's better than any striker in the Moyes era.

 

In other words; he's better than Johnson, Yakubu, Beattie etc...

 

It's not my fault that you have the IQ of a swiss roll Avin. Go and attempt to bully someone on your own forum you tit.

 

 

Avinalaff truly does make me laugh....

 

Absolute Joker.

 

Posted simply for posterity. It's not often you find the 2 worst contributors to this forum post one after the other.

 

Don't try and beat people into line. This is a forum for debate.

 

And Zoo, you are a nobody with a big mouth. Don't tell people who have been posting here for years to leave.

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Been here just as long as you and the sooner you leave the better. Every single post you make is in order to get a reaction out of someone as you're the biggest attention seeker (and bully) I've ever met. It's absolutely pathetic.

 

Going to move on anyway, cretins like you are not worth the time of day - it's bad for the forum to give someone with such little respect such attention. Stick me on ignore if my posts get too much for you like you did the last time, not nice being stood up to is it? ;) .

 

Everton v Spurs posts from now on...

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Been here just as long as you and the sooner you leave the better. Every single post you make is in order to get a reaction out of someone as you're the biggest attention seeker (and bully) I've ever met. It's absolutely pathetic.

 

Going to move on anyway, cretins like you are not worth the time of day - it's bad for the forum to give someone with such little respect such attention. Stick me on ignore if my posts get too much for you like you did the last time, not nice being stood up to is it? ;) .

 

Everton v Spurs posts from now on...

 

You'll no doubt grow up in your own time like everybody else, but to me, you'll always be little squeaky Zoo, the annoying wannabe mod from Wrexham who couldn't handle not being important to me. I'll gladly stick you on ignore with pleasure.

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Some people just like to hate on Moyes.

 

I think Moyes was a fantastic manager and he did amazing things for the club, bringing us to where we are and I wish him the best.

 

Martinez is here now and though he isn't technically doing better, he is trying to play more attractive football which good pressure can make such play difficult.

We need time to be able to counter this pressure and when that happens, we will begin to see the results start flying in against better opposition.

I believe Martinez has a better squad anyways so he doesn't have much of an excuse to finish with less points or a lower position than last year.

 

This is a game we should have won and him putting in Osman to start was a mistake. Barkley playing badly is still better than Osman playing badly.

Still neck to neck with the top of the table so onwards and upwards!

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You'll no doubt grow up in your own time like everybody else, but to me, you'll always be little squeaky Zoo, the annoying wannabe mod from Wrexham who couldn't handle not being important to me. I'll gladly stick you on ignore with pleasure.

 

:lol: . Avin, forever in my shadows.

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