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Finn balor

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Why cant people discuss opinions without personal attacks? You don't have to agree. Most seem not to agree with me in regards to Pienaar. (and a lot of other things.) I don't get mad about it.

 

Avin's been doing it for years but unfortunatly nothing has ever been done about it. Had it been happening on other forums with stricter staff members he would have been banned long ago. As I said earlier, I'm not entertaining him, he's entertaining enough on his own. If he wants to go around the forum attempting to get bites from everyone on here then so be it, it's dragging the place down though. Back in the day this was a brilliant forum.

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Hence my lucky manager comment.

 

We don't have the players to play Ole football on a consistent basis. Once Martinez brings in players for that style he might get closer to where he wants to be.

At the moment we are scraping results. To those who look at our results on match of the day or in the newspaper, our points tally may suggest we are playing well, but for those of us who watch every game we are hit or miss.

 

10 games in and not a single convincing performance over 90 minutes. We need a better squad, so the likes of Osman and Mirallas have real pressure to perform. I see us passing the ball about ok when things are going well for us, but a few bad passes and our arses twitch, and when we are pressed we can't play the passing game under pressure.

 

Tactician wise, we play the same players every week, be it from the start, or as a sub, so not sure that shows much use of our squad. The same guys are getting taken off, yet they start again the following week.

 

Mirallas has been subbed 7 times this season, yet still starts every game. I'd like Martinez to explain that one, as I remember fans used to slate Moyes for having his favourites.

We are ten games in and have kept the fourth most clean sheets In the league so we can't have been all that terrible. As for lucky, could you not have said the same for spurs this season? £90m spent and they have relied on some very dubious penalty desicions to get 3 points on more than one occasion this season. But they, like us, are adapting to a new style of football. It's going to take time for us to get to grips with this new passing style, it was never going to happen over 10 games.

 

But considering where we are and we are playing a completely different style, we deserve a lot of credit IMO. Performances have been hit and miss, I agree but it will take atleast another 1-2 transfer windows for Martinez to bring in players that can play the way he wants. The current crop of players aren't used to it, but they aren't doing too badly at the moment.

 

Not sure how you say the same 11 play every week when over the last 2 games at least, pienaar has forced his way back in and so has Osman?

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Avin's been doing it for years but unfortunatly nothing has ever been done about it. Had it been happening on other forums with stricter staff members he would have been banned long ago. As I said earlier, I'm not entertaining him, he's entertaining enough on his own. If he wants to go around the forum attempting to get bites from everyone on here then so be it, it's dragging the place down though. Back in the day this was a brilliant forum.

 

Sure but it takes two to tango. I'm not a saint on here either. No-one is but we are all Evertonians. And we are all entitled to our opinion. You are right though Zoo, all the arguing is dragging this place down. (i'm not pointing at you though, in fact I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.)

 

I do miss the "every cloud has a silver lining" Avin though. Used to be such a positive fella.

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Sure but it takes two to tango. I'm not a saint on here either. No-one is but we are all Evertonians. And we are all entitled to our opinion. You are right though Zoo, all the arguing is dragging this place down. (i'm not pointing at you though, in fact I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.)

 

I do miss the "every cloud has a silver lining" Avin though. Used to be such a positive fella.

 

I'm a positive fella now we have a positive manager!

 

Rowing is inevitable when debating from time to time, people just need to stop taking things personally, we are all passionate blues here.

 

I feel the Moyes vs Martinez debate is one that will pop its head up from time to time on here so lets try and stick to facts - there are plenty around to make a tangible appraisal, at this moment the simple one is... "Everton are higher in the league than Man United"

 

Now you can take that statement and try and put some context around it, my context will be that United haven't beaten any sides in the top half of the table - we have beaten 2. We have lost just 1 game against a very good Man City side, they have lost 3 and were lucky to get the win against Stoke. Cant wait to play them.

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Why cant people discuss opinions without personal attacks? You don't have to agree. Most seem not to agree with me in regards to Pienaar. (and a lot of other things.) I don't get mad about it.

 

You're right. You took my comment about Pienaar with good grace. Thank you.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Surprisingly affable guy for someone with no footballing sense. ;)

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Avin's been doing it for years but unfortunatly nothing has ever been done about it. Had it been happening on other forums with stricter staff members he would have been banned long ago. As I said earlier, I'm not entertaining him, he's entertaining enough on his own. If he wants to go around the forum attempting to get bites from everyone on here then so be it, it's dragging the place down though. Back in the day this was a brilliant forum.

 

You're out of line pal.

 

My opinion is that we look more like Wigan than Everton. If you don't agree, then fine, but who do you think you are constantly dishing out verbal attacks?

Karma is a bitch mate, so you might want to keep your nasty comments to yourself.

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Why cant people discuss opinions without personal attacks? You don't have to agree. Most seem not to agree with me in regards to Pienaar. (and a lot of other things.) I don't get mad about it.

Hallelujah.

 

This is the reason I rarely post on here anymore.

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Ferguson has been a hugely successful manager, but for all his success, he has only managed one Prem team, who just so happened to be the richest Prem club for most of that time, so we won't know if he would have done anything at another club, especially a poor one like Everton. My guess is that Moyes will have success at United given time. He needs to know his players and how to use them. Saf had 26 years of adding to what he already knew, so it's fair to say Moyes will struggle at first, or anybody else.

 

Let's see how Moyes and indeed Bobby are doing once the 25 players are of their choosing, as at the moment, Martinez is using Moyes' players, and Moyes is using Fergies.

Barry,McCarthy,lukaku all started that's nearly a third of the first eleven. So they are not all moyes players. I think after ten games we couldn't have expected any more. Yes we aren't firing on all cylinders but we are still learning. Can't be doing with all this bollocks that avin is chatting

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Barry,McCarthy,lukaku all started that's nearly a third of the first eleven. So they are not all moyes players. I think after ten games we couldn't have expected any more. Yes we aren't firing on all cylinders but we are still learning. Can't be doing with all this bollocks that avin is chatting

 

Was there any need for the last line? :dont know: Where did I say 'ALL' ?

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Was there any need for the last line? :dont know: Where did I say 'ALL' ?

 

Is there any need for your verbal insults around the forum? Don't give out insults and you probably won't get them back. As you said yourself, karma is a bitch.

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Guest blueboy122

I wonder how many people Avin has on ignore, must be hardly any other posters in Avins world.

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Amongst all the arguing, I made quite a valid point about the lack of atmosphere at GP...is it a sunday thing? Fans expecting too much? What u reckon it is?

 

Also, as its 'Movember', hows about ToffeeTalk organise a charity boxing match? All proceeds to testicular cancer. The boxers? None other than Zoo n Avin'. Of course, they'd have gloves on so the usual hair pulling and cat scratching will have to be replaced with more manly behaviour.

 

Hey, heres a wee story from sunday...on one of our bus pick ups on the way down, a bloke got on who had been living it up all weekend, looked a bit knackered to be fair. Anyway, said bloke took a seat in front of us once at GP. Looked down at his balding crown, and there was a big red cock drawn on there!!! should have seen him tryna rub it off!!!

 

Made me laugh anyway.....

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Nope.

 

Not joking at all. Some fans are easily pleased by the fact we are doing ok (7th) points wise, but we have to take the blinkers off and look at things honestly.

 

Yes, we are picking points up, but our performances have been well below the standard that we were playing under Moyes.

 

Take Lukaku away, and what have we done? Add Lukaku to Moyes team and we would have pushed that top 4. Not good enough by a long way, and those that think it's acceptable are letting themselves down.

 

You really must have been watching a different Everton under Moyes. Yes we had our moments but we had far too many games like the first half yesterday against poor sides and lost. We were really poor first half because the players came out day dreaming but we absolutely bossed the 2nd half and Spurs didnt really have a touch until the last 10 minutes. We didnt create too many chances but we did get into goal scoring/creating positions without being able to click.

 

That last sentence is laughable argument too. Take away Cahill from Moyes' earlier sides and what do you have? Whatever it is, its irrelevant because Moyes didnt sign Lukaku and Martinez did.

 

 

 

 

I think the point is that despite not performing at our best consistently we've still done well for ourselves. No one is under any illusions that we're playing brilliantly all of the time, but most understand that it will take some time until we reach the point where we're totally satisfied and are focusing on the positives. I thought that would be something you would be fully behind tbh, Avin, as you're usually someone who looks on the bright side.

 

Exactly Romey. We are 10 games in and we are slowly but surely finding our feet. We probably started better than we expected (or we did in my eyes anyway) and I think expectations have risen somewhat.

 

 

 

 

Hence my lucky manager comment.

 

We don't have the players to play Ole football on a consistent basis. Once Martinez brings in players for that style he might get closer to where he wants to be.

At the moment we are scraping results. To those who look at our results on match of the day or in the newspaper, our points tally may suggest we are playing well, but for those of us who watch every game we are hit or miss.

 

10 games in and not a single convincing performance over 90 minutes. We need a better squad, so the likes of Osman and Mirallas have real pressure to perform. I see us passing the ball about ok when things are going well for us, but a few bad passes and our arses twitch, and when we are pressed we can't play the passing game under pressure.

 

Tactician wise, we play the same players every week, be it from the start, or as a sub, so not sure that shows much use of our squad. The same guys are getting taken off, yet they start again the following week.

 

Mirallas has been subbed 7 times this season, yet still starts every game. I'd like Martinez to explain that one, as I remember fans used to slate Moyes for having his favourites.

 

You say scraping results like its a bad thing. We arent as consistent as I would like by any stretch but that will come in time. We are playing well for periods of time and my main bug bear is that we havent been able to put 90minutes together but you say that as if we used to under Moyes. He was here for over 10 years yet couldnt manage it and you are now starting to write off Martinez who for getting to the same level in 6 months.

 

I think we have mixed it up more in these 10 games than Moyes did for the whole of last season. We have moved to 3 at the back at times, two deeper midfielders to one deeper and we have also moved from possession play to counter attacking play. Players wise we have also mixed it up. Barkley was dropped for yesterdays game, Naismith has been in and out, the midfield 3 have changed too. Its difficult to replace Mirallas because we need someone to take on defenders and provide pace. Apart from the young Spanish lad we dont have anyone else who can really replace him. Dont forget Mirallas chalked up an assist in the last game as well. The worst one for me is Coleman, because he has been dreadful so far for the majority of this season and I would seriously consider sticking Stones back there.

 

I love the way everyone was not expecting anything this season due to transitions.... Ten games later we are giving down the banks to a team that is be point off second place.....get a grip lads!.... People say we are lucky. Please tell me again what happened in this fixture last year...... I think some people would be happy with us playing like barca and bottom of the league.... We ride our luck like the red shite have for years... About time too.

 

Exactly!

 

 

My opinion is that we look more like Wigan than Everton.

 

 

How many Wigan games have you watched over the last couple of years btw? Im guessing not many...

 

Anyway back to the game. As has already been said, very poor first half as we werent at the races whatsoever, despite that though we didnt exactly look like we were going to concede. However the second half we really did boss them and whilst our decision making again wasnt the greatest, we did work some nice opportunities and both Barry and McCarthy really stepped up. The latter became more of a force as he was allowed to break forward and get involved with the play where he almost set up Lukaku. Barkley and Deulofeu coming on gave us some extra impetus and it was nice to see the former being committed to his decisions and taking things on earlier instead of hesitating. The skill from Deulofeu to skin 5 of the Spurs players and bare down on Lloris was sublime and its things like that which should give Mirallas and Pienaar a kick up the arse, because neither were great and Pienaar especially was terribly wasteful all game. As I mentioned above, Coleman again was poor. Defensively he was clumsy and in attack he kept making poor decisions which is a shame because I really like the lad and he can be excellent but he is another that is struggling to keep his place in the team.

 

Overall a point each was the fair result but I just hope that we can start playing like we did in that second half for the 90minutes.

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Guest blueboy122

Good post Bailey

 

Can't remember any clear cut chances for Spurs to be honest, even though we were so poor.

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Late to this. Thought we were largely pegged back by a solid looking Spurs in the first half but looked the more likely to win it at the end. Ours a better shout for a penno than theirs but my man Seamus is too honest. Needs some lessons from the Ashley Coles and Youngs of this world < shakes head>

 

McCarthy and Distin my standout players. Mirallas is a powder puff < brushed off like a baby at times> - and he exposes whoever he plays in front of - in this case young Seamus. Thought Gerrard Depardu did a lot better job at stifling Vertogen to be fair. A good point.

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Guest Nikica

Brilliant post Nikica. Some very good points there, but I would say that our defence has been playing very well (Wet sham game aside) , AVB likes this high line with Lloris acting as Sweeper, this leaves us open to a ball over the top with a Quick striker on to it ala West ham, but there is too much probing, and side and back passes, in most of our games we have had more possession but created few chances. The Everton back 4 will not be troubled too much tomorrow unless Baines puts his boots on the wrong feet (here's hoping ) Midfield is the Key area Dembele and Paulinho will probably start, and Everton will need to bypass themto get any Joy, even at Goodison I would let spurs come onto you then a well placed pass into the gaping hole for Lukaku to run onto 3-0 Everton

 

 

Thanks mate, I hope your team starts clicking soon and we start to see some top quality football from youse. I know the players and manager have it in them. You should probably have got a draw against Newcastle but Krul was in inspired form.

 

The thing is that Spurs over the last while have played a very fast, attacking flat style with flying wingers and midfielders whose primary job is to cover for full-backs on the overload whilst offering little creativity themselves (Sandro, Parker etc). I realise Spurs traditionally play this sort of style, but Villas-Boas is transitioning to more of a possession-orientated game, as you say. The full-backs are still prominent but you're now playing with false wingers (hence why Lennon has been tried on the left on occasion) who can come inside and link up with the trequartista in the middle i.e. Holtby or Eriksen. That's obviously also why AVB likes Lloris as the sweeper-keeper and ball- playing defenders like Verthogen and Dawson, as they can hold the high line you suggest and make the whole team more compressed and hence more effective in terms of short passing. This style can make a team susceptible to pacey counters because the centre mids are expected to provide some craft themselves, and if the team loses the ball when trying to break down a defence the mids can be caught out of position and the defence is playing a risky game as a pacey striker can get in on the 'keeper. That's why guys like Dembele, Paulinho and even Capoue seem have been preferred and/or brought in - I'm thinking that Boas sees them as more trustworthy in the middle under pressure than the likes of Sandro is and Parker was, and that sort of midfielder is integral to the way a team like yours plays - they're arguably the most important component due to the triangle they create with the number 10 - they have the ability to take a man out of the game with a turn which then opens up avenues for the playmakers. It's interesting to see Remy played on the shoulder for most of the game the other day, and his goal actually came from exactly what I describe - one of the CMs (was it Paulinho?) lost the ball in the middle third and Cabaye (I think) played a quickfire ball to Remy who was in on goal. Yours is a risky style to play but it is capable of reaping unbelievable rewards, especially when an overload of attackers gives many options to create opportunities and passing lanes for a predator like Soldado, who can finish crosses and through balls. The problem is that it's not working in practice right now, and I suspect that's because everyone has did their homework and know exactly how you will try and play.

 

The above is how I see your style at the moment anyway - the intentions are good, the style of play is brave (in terms of the risk/reward dynamic) and to be admired, but it's just not happening...yet.

 

I actually fell asleep and missed this game after looking forward to it, but from the highlights it didn't seem too interesting a game anyway. Lloris should probably have been subbed off after his concussion, but I suppose a doctor is more qualified to make that call than we are. It still seemed a risk though. I was very disappointed in AVB's comments after the game as Lukaku doesn't seem the sort to deliberately injure another player. He's more clumsy than malicious.

 

 

Sorry for posting about an older game here, I just wanted to acknowledge Paul's post and offer some friendly words for future.

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