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Baines

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http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2013/11/23/baines-requires-x-ray?

 

Didnt realise that he went off with an injury

 

 

Yeah, it was from when he went into a challenge with Henderson just before half time.

 

Personally, I won't be too fussed if he's out for a little while, he could probably do with it.

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Hmmmm could well have played his last game for us then, that is a massive blow

im not sure... Like I said in the other thread, 3 CBs in Stones Jags and Distin would be solid and quite attacking (by that I mean allowing us to go 352 and having 2 wide players)

 

Plus, we wont miss Baines' set pieces if the last couple games have been anything to go by. Maybe Oviedo will get a run out?

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It shows how far we have come as a team under RM... If this injury happened last year I think we would have melted down. The fact is Baines is less a vital component as he was under Moyes due to the less reliance on crossed ball into the box. Some may argue that should be a criticism of RM but I think it just shows that we have changed our style and whilst there aren't many better than Baines - which top teams build their strategy around a full back??? It's usually the number "10" - sat pulling the strings = ross barkley. (yes I know Gerry wears that number)

 

Baines and Pienaar have been immense but lets be honest, teams focused on keeping them quiet in order to stop us.

 

This now points to the fact that less reliance on Baines may mean that the £18-£20m we could get for a 29 year old is a sum that should not be sniffed at. Of course we will need to replace the lad wisely - i'm not sure if Oviedo is the answer or whether Garbutt can be ready soon. But these are decisions I will trust RM to get right.

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im not sure... Like I said in the other thread, 3 CBs in Stones Jags and Distin would be solid and quite attacking (by that I mean allowing us to go 352 and having 2 wide players)

 

Plus, we wont miss Baines' set pieces if the last couple games have been anything to go by. Maybe Oviedo will get a run out?

I agree about getting Stones in there.

 

----------------Lukaku-------------------

-------Mirallas ----- Duelofeu---------

Barry McCarthy Barkley Coleman

-------Distin Jagielka Stones--------

----------------Howard------------------

 

Just got to make one point in defence of Baines, we scored from one of his set pieces on Saturday and he is still scores more free kicks than most in the prem.

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I agree about getting Stones in there.

 

----------------Lukaku-------------------

-------Mirallas ----- Duelofeu---------

Barry McCarthy Barkley Coleman

-------Distin Jagielka Stones--------

----------------Howard------------------

 

Just got to make one point in defence of Baines, we scored from one of his set pieces on Saturday and he is still scores more free kicks than most in the prem.

Think Id tweak that a little mate:

 

..................Lukaku...............

Mirallas Pienaar Barkley Deul

.............Barry McCarthy .......

......Distin ... Jags ... Stones..

.................T-How .................

 

Coleman can come in for one of the AMs and change to our 4231, push Stones inside for CDR, but honestly I think we could get away with a formation like this. Stoke especially, as I expect them to close us down and park the bus, so let them do it whilst we keep possession in their half with 6-7 players pushing forward.

 

Baines might have helped in 1 set piece but in general lately his crossing has been poor, at least by his standards. I'll say it again though, I hope he stays and sees out his career with us, but as Haf quite rightly points out; we are no longer dependent on him and 16-20m for him now, compared to 6 months ago, is very interesting (sadly)

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that looks a ludicrously attacking formation and somewhat suicidal. All a team needs to do is attack down the wings and were screwed!

 

3-5-2 really isn't 3-5-2 normally it's more like 3-2-3-2

 

 

howard

stones jagielka distin

Coleman Barry

McCarthy

Barkley

Duelefou Mirallas Piennar

Lukaku

 

is more how I would see it implemented, Barkley playing alongside McCarthy but a bit ahead of him with more or a license to roam forward while McCarthy would have to be disciplined staying in the middle.

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that looks a ludicrously attacking formation and somewhat suicidal. All a team needs to do is attack down the wings and were screwed!

 

3-5-2 really isn't 3-5-2 normally it's more like 3-2-3-2

 

 

howard

stones jagielka distin

Coleman Barry

McCarthy

Barkley

Duelefou Mirallas Piennar

Lukaku

 

is more how I would see it implemented, Barkley playing alongside McCarthy but a bit ahead of him with more or a license to roam forward while McCarthy would have to be disciplined staying in the middle.

suicidal? Nah, but definitely better than trying to play 12 players :P

 

it is attacking but think about it: Barry staying back is effectively another CD and between McCarthy and Barkley doing box to box (one as AMC, one as DMC), we have full coverage in the middle.

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oops! I had counted them but obviously forgot howard!

 

hmmm I don't see Coleman getting dropped anyway, as I say i think it would be both foolish and and unlikely to happen that we'd go with no left or right back.

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http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9048751/Moyes-Admits-Defeat-On-Baines-Move

 

 

Moyes attempted to prise left-back Leighton Baines out of Goodison Park without success and his successor as Everton manager, Roberto Martinez, has already said another attempt would be pointless.

"If they are determined to hold on to him then he can't be going anywhere," said Moyes.

 

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From BBC:

 

Seven Premier League players have been included among the 20 defenders shortlisted for the FIFA FIFPro World XI 2013. The England pair of Ashley Cole and Leighton Baines are joined by Chelsea pair Branislav Ivanovic and David Luiz, Manchester United's Nemanja Vidic and the Manchester City duo of Vincent Kompany and Pablo Zabaleta.

The full list is:

David Alaba (Austria, FC Bayern München);

Jordi Alba(Spain, FC Barcelona);

Dani Alves (Brazil, FC Barcelona);

Leighton Baines(England, Everton FC);

Jérôme Boateng (Germany, FC Bayern München);

Ashley Cole (England, Chelsea FC);

Dante (Brazil, FC Bayern München);

Mats Hummels (Germany, Borussia Dortmund);

Branislav Ivanović (Serbia, Chelsea FC);

Philipp Lahm (Germany, FC Bayern München);

David Luiz(Brazil, Chelsea FC);

Vincent Kompany (Belgium, Manchester City FC);

Marcelo (Brazil, Real Madrid CF);

Pepe (Portugal, Real Madrid CF);

Gerard Piqué (Spain, FC Barcelona);

Sergio Ramos (Spain, Real Madrid CF );

Thiago Silva (Brazil, Paris St-Germain FC);

Raphaël Varane (France, Real Madrid CF);

Nemanja Vidić (Serbia, Manchester United FC);

Pablo Zabaleta(Argentina, Manchester City FC).

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Guest blueboy122

Ashley Cole?

 

Has anyone from FIFA seen him play in the last 3 years?

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as much as I love Baines, I hope he doesnt just waltz into the team when hes fit. I think Oviedo has done enough so far to make Martinez think...

 

I actually have to agree with this. Oviedo has obviously been working hard and playing well -- he deserves some time because of it.

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sounds like he will waltz back in, which is disappointing. Bryan didnt have the best game yesterday (wasnt bad either) but shouldnt lose out so quickly. I hope theres a little rotation going between the 2 over the holiday period, its the only fair way in my opinion.

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I think Oviedo playing ahead of Baines will be used in upcoming fixtures - Pienaar got quite a knock yesterday which may stiffen up (don't bother!!!) and Mirallas looks in need of a rest. Oviedo has looked decent on the few occasions he's played more advanced - he did a really good job vs West Ham away earlier this season. I think we'll get another winger in Jan but I'd be more than happy with Bryan staying in the mix in that position.

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I think Oviedo playing ahead of Baines will be used in upcoming fixtures - Pienaar got quite a knock yesterday which may stiffen up (don't bother!!!) and Mirallas looks in need of a rest. Oviedo has looked decent on the few occasions he's played more advanced - he did a really good job vs West Ham away earlier this season. I think we'll get another winger in Jan but I'd be more than happy with Bryan staying in the mix in that position.

 

 

:D :D :D :D

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sounds like he will waltz back in, which is disappointing. Bryan didnt have the best game yesterday (wasnt bad either) but shouldnt lose out so quickly. I hope theres a little rotation going between the 2 over the holiday period, its the only fair way in my opinion.

 

Oviedo deserves to have a run out against the lower position teams in the league. Baines is an idol and one of our best weapons, however, his injury has just prove to most of the Toffees on Merseyside that we can do without if he does leave!

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I think Oviedo playing ahead of Baines will be used in upcoming fixtures - Pienaar got quite a knock yesterday which may stiffen up (don't bother!!!) and Mirallas looks in need of a rest. Oviedo has looked decent on the few occasions he's played more advanced - he did a really good job vs West Ham away earlier this season. I think we'll get another winger in Jan but I'd be more than happy with Bryan staying in the mix in that position.

 

Not for me. He is a left back and doesnt have the positional intelligence to really play on the wing. Like Coleman he uses pace to create space which is fine as a FB but its the complete opposite of Pienaar. I suppose it would help us on the counter though.

 

Our play has improved a lot since Baines has been out of the team but IMO it has nothing to do with him not being in the side and its purely co-incidental. Baines is a better attacker and defender and whilst I like Oviedo and think he is a solid no 2, that is all he is IMO, providing Baines does pick his form up again like he started to show in the derby.

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Bailey you realize Oviedo is a left wing for Costa Rica right? That's his natural position.

 

Just because he plays there for Costa Rica doesnt mean he is a natural winger. Coleman played on the wing for us and Republic of Ireland for a while but that doesnt mean he is a natural winger either.

 

IMO he doesnt have the attributes to be a genuine winger and he is much more suited to being a FB.

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Coleman is a better winger. Last 2 years moyes worked on his defense which Is better but look at what he's doing now with more encouragement to move up, scores 4 goals and arsenal wants to buy him. They didn't last year or the year before.

 

Both Oviedo and Coleman are quick and can put it in the box, they look like wingers to me. All the complaints about Oviedo taking over for baines were that he's a winger and doesn't defend well. Just because he has acquitted himself doesn't make him a left back now.

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Coleman is a better winger. Last 2 years moyes worked on his defense which Is better but look at what he's doing now with more encouragement to move up, scores 4 goals and arsenal wants to buy him. They didn't last year or the year before.

 

Both Oviedo and Coleman are quick and can put it in the box, they look like wingers to me. All the complaints about Oviedo taking over for baines were that he's a winger and doesn't defend well. Just because he has acquitted himself doesn't make him a left back now.

Coleman was well and truly found out as a winger and was rightfully pushed back to his natural position where he's excelled.

 

He started off like a house on fire on the wing but opposition players quickly nullified his threat because he's not clever enough to be a winger. He's much better suited to being a RB where he'll have more space to work in.

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Coleman is a better winger. Last 2 years moyes worked on his defense which Is better but look at what he's doing now with more encouragement to move up, scores 4 goals and arsenal wants to buy him. They didn't last year or the year before.

 

Both Oviedo and Coleman are quick and can put it in the box, they look like wingers to me. All the complaints about Oviedo taking over for baines were that he's a winger and doesn't defend well. Just because he has acquitted himself doesn't make him a left back now.

 

They are wingers in the sense that they can get their head down and get to the byline but that's about it. That only gets you so far, especially when you come up against good defenders. Their movement, decision making, passing/crossing etc aren't good enough to be a top flight winger. I'm not saying they cant do a job here and there because I'm sure they can but they shouldn't be used as regulars in that position.

 

Coleman was well and truly found out as a winger and was rightfully pushed back to his natural position where he's excelled.

 

He started off like a house on fire on the wing but opposition players quickly nullified his threat because he's not clever enough to be a winger. He's much better suited to being a RB where he'll have more space to work in.

 

Spot on.

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Where will RM play him? Id be tempted to try Leighton instead of Pienaar. I know most would say Oviedo instead of Pienaar and Leighton at LB but might really work the other way around.

 

Pienaar himself is also getting better and better with each game so RM has some thinking to do.

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I do think ultimately this is the right move to tie him down and if push came to shove I would rely on him as my first choice however probably like a lot of you seeing oviedo in the left back position and playing so well the fear of baines leaving doesn't bother me as much now. I would rather keep baines on the principle to show we are not a selling club and trying to build something.

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not sure if i'd rather sell him instead of paying that much

I guess if regular champions league football is secured then these are the types of wages that are inevitable. Risk is paying that level of wages and then not kicking on to the next level to get the extra revenue

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I guess if regular champions league football is secured then these are the types of wages that are inevitable. Risk is paying that level of wages and then not kicking on to the next level to get the extra revenue

 

 

Which is exactly what happened with Arteta, and, if rumours are to be believed it crippled us.

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Which is exactly what happened with Arteta, and, if rumours are to be believed it crippled us.

It's a tough one. Revenue is up from premier league tv deal, and champions league revenue is set to go up even more soon with BT deal (I think?). Is it worth the risk to try and get there, or is it better to get there first then risk the higher wages to stay there? Can see both sides of the argument really.

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It's a tough one. Revenue is up from premier league tv deal, and champions league revenue is set to go up even more soon with BT deal (I think?). Is it worth the risk to try and get there, or is it better to get there first then risk the higher wages to stay there? Can see both sides of the argument really.

 

So can I. Let's just hope the board get the balance right!

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Which is exactly what happened with Arteta, and, if rumours are to be believed it crippled us.

 

The way I see it is, no guts, no glory. There's no safe, risk-free method of getting into the CL. We'll have to take some gambles. I think Baines is a good gamble.

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