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Baines

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1 hour ago, Aidan said:

Got no problem with Baines as cover for Digne for another year. We need better quality in other areas of the field as a priority. 

I’d be happy to give Baines two years, while he’s not playing every week he isn’t running his body into the ground. As you said Aidan, other areas need to be the priority. 

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His legs are gone unfortunately, he looked shattered in a few games around the 70 minute mark. If Digne was injured for a few games we'd need to change tactics to accommodate Baines as he can't get up and overlap as often any more. Easily done by moving a more selfish player like Richarlison back to the left as he doesn't require the support from the left back to get the best out of him.

I'd prefer Kenny to play out of position over Baines. So if he stays I hope it's as third choice and his main role would be in training as a role model to the other lads. 

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4 hours ago, plaidharper said:

Plus it would allow Antonee Robinson to go out on loan again in search of more minutes which he needs whereas Baines' legs could probably do with less.

How has he done at Wigan this year? I worry about any player who’s into his 20’s and we aren’t hearing a lot about him. 

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I don’t think Baines would want to sign knowing he wouldn’t get playing time, if he’s not ready to hang his boots up I believe he will leave for where he has a chance of first team football. 

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

I don’t think Baines would want to sign knowing he wouldn’t get playing time, if he’s not ready to hang his boots up I believe he will leave for where he has a chance of first team football. 

he doesn't love football, he's been open about that, it's a job for him.  he loves music.  i don't see him going to MLS or anything.  i could see him doing another year or 2 and collecting a fat check to essentially wind down and retire.  Why uproot his family?

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1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

he doesn't love football, he's been open about that, it's a job for him.  he loves music.  i don't see him going to MLS or anything.  i could see him doing another year or 2 and collecting a fat check to essentially wind down and retire.  Why uproot his family?

Because I don’t think he’s the sort of person who would be happy to do all the training and just sit on the bench if he thought he had something to offer someone, and it’s not as if he needs the money I think he’s got more class about him than just the money. 

Were both probably be wrong and he will retire but not long to find out. 

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Because I don’t think he’s the sort of person who would be happy to do all the training and just sit on the bench if he thought he had something to offer someone, and it’s not as if he needs the money I think he’s got more class about him than just the money. 

Were both probably be wrong and he will retire but not long to find out. 

i could totally see that happening as well

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I think he is the type of character to stay and help with he younger lads. Not just as a coach, but as a leader and role model.

Clubs keep these type of characters around for years, knowing the impact it has on younger lads coming through.

He loves the club.

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16 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

he doesn't love football, he's been open about that, it's a job for him.  he loves music.  i don't see him going to MLS or anything.  i could see him doing another year or 2 and collecting a fat check to essentially wind down and retire.  Why uproot his family?

This. Plus, even if he knows that he would be a backup wouldn't mean he slack off just collecting money. His lack of love for football doesn't bother me, it's his professionalism (like Jags) that we need to keep and that which means he'd always be ready to go if needed

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19 hours ago, StevO said:

How has he done at Wigan this year? I worry about any player who’s into his 20’s and we aren’t hearing a lot about him. 

I would say the loan was a success. Only picked up 1 assist  compared to the 5 he got at Bolton the year before BUT he was injured this season and missed 20 games.  When he did play he always got the full 90 (and i do mean every game which is not something that happens to most of our loans). Made it into the Championship team of the week once or twice.  Also in 2018 he picked up 6 games for the USA men's national team. After he recovered from his injury (march this year) he is now back with the USA u23 squad though.  We might hear more about him on this side of the pond because his assist provided the winner for the USA vs Mexico game back in September.

As mentioned above, I would say he needs another loan.

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1 minute ago, plaidharper said:

I would say the loan was a success. Only picked up 1 assist  compared to the 5 he got at Bolton the year before BUT he was injured this season and missed 20 games.  When he did play he always got the full 90 (and i do mean every game which is not something that happens to most of our loans). Made it into the Championship team of the week once or twice.  Also in 2018 he picked up 6 games for the USA men's national team. After he recovered from his injury (march this year) he is now back with the USA u23 squad though.  We might hear more about him on this side of the pond because his assist provided the winner for the USA vs Mexico game back in September.

As mentioned above, I would say he needs another loan.

All that said though, really hoping he does not turn into Luke Garbutt 2.0

I would say that Antonee is already a better crosser and more likely to create chances than Luke ever was/did.

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3 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

All that said though, really hoping he does not turn into Luke Garbutt 2.0

I would say that Antonee is already a better crosser and more likely to create chances than Luke ever was/did.

He definitely has more pace as well. Not really sure where he is at the moment in his development. I agree another loan is ideal, maybe to a lower PL side, if Baines stays. 

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4 hours ago, plaidharper said:

All that said though, really hoping he does not turn into Luke Garbutt 2.0

I would say that Antonee is already a better crosser and more likely to create chances than Luke ever was/did.

Thanks for the info. One thing I rated Garbutt on was his crossing (great dead ball too), so that’s good to hear from this lad. 

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5 hours ago, Matt said:

This. Plus, even if he knows that he would be a backup wouldn't mean he slack off just collecting money. His lack of love for football doesn't bother me, it's his professionalism (like Jags) that we need to keep and that which means he'd always be ready to go if needed

I think Baines would be happy to stay here as back up too. He is very professional. Jags has said he wants to keep playing, so I think he’ll do a good year or two somewhere else. I don’t see Baines moving his family though, I think when Everton is done for him football will be too. 

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1 hour ago, Finn balor said:

What’s Leighton looking at wage wise? 20k a week for us? As back up? Not bad either way. He could probably get double that on a free transfer? Nice options to have for him 

I’d expect him to get double that as a back up anyway.  

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13 hours ago, Finn balor said:

What’s Leighton looking at wage wise? 20k a week for us? As back up? Not bad either way. He could probably get double that on a free transfer? Nice options to have for him 

He’s around 70k a week. But the money, when it comes to him, isn’t an issue in my opinion. 

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50 minutes ago, StevO said:

Absolutely vital. Might as well make him captain too. 

I’d rather it goes to someone else to be honest. A captain for a year is pointless, someone who’s going to stay a few more years. I can see Coleman or Siggy getting it, but would like it to be Keane 

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15 minutes ago, Matt said:

I’d rather it goes to someone else to be honest. A captain for a year is pointless, someone who’s going to stay a few more years. I can see Coleman or Siggy getting it, but would like it to be Keane 

This for me too.  Give it to someone who will be around for a while.  Coleman, Siggy, Digne if he has the dressing room.

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9 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

This for me too.  Give it to someone who will be around for a while.  Coleman, Siggy, Digne if he has the dressing room.

Digne is a very good shout

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57 minutes ago, Matt said:

I’d rather it goes to someone else to be honest. A captain for a year is pointless, someone who’s going to stay a few more years. I can see Coleman or Siggy getting it, but would like it to be Keane 

How come you want Keane to be captain? 

Hard to find a captain in the current team beyond Coleman but half a chance he mightn't be a starter next year. If Davies starts he'd be worth moulding into a captain, would also save him from a yellow card or two. 

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

I’d rather it goes to someone else to be honest. A captain for a year is pointless, someone who’s going to stay a few more years. I can see Coleman or Siggy getting it, but would like it to be Keane 

Fair comment, Coleman.

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

How come you want Keane to be captain? 

Hard to find a captain in the current team beyond Coleman but half a chance he mightn't be a starter next year. If Davies starts he'd be worth moulding into a captain, would also save him from a yellow card or two. 

Because I see him as a long term player, much like (anticipating the red vote) Jags and did from the start. 

Coleman is the obvious choice but it’d be too short. He’s already a voice in the team, so maybe/probably it’s the right and inevitable choice, and I won’t be disappointed; he’s earned it and embodies everything I want in a captain and the club

Davies, as much as I like him, needs to cement a place before he’s ever considered. 

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Because I see him as a long term player, much like (anticipating the red vote) Jags and did from the start. 

Coleman is the obvious choice but it’d be too short. He’s already a voice in the team, so maybe/probably it’s the right and inevitable choice, and I won’t be disappointed; he’s earned it and embodies everything I want in a captain and the club

Davies, as much as I like him, needs to cement a place before he’s ever considered. 

I really hope you're wrong on Keane being here for the long-stay. I'm hoping Holgate can push him out the team this season.

For me we were never gonna win anything with Jags, he just doesn't have the grit. Keane would fit into that type too. 

I'd give it to Coleman as he's got the qualities and is most senior. But hopefully he'd be on the bench and another can step up and take the armband on the pitch. 

He deserved more minutes last year, got twice as many last season and the one before. Silva's use of the kids was dire, especially with Brands saying at the start of the season our youth players are good enough to fill the squad. Only one that got proper minutes was DCL but that was after reluctantly excepting Tosun and Richarlison weren't cutting it up top. 

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1 minute ago, c1982 said:

Pete - why do you call Calvert-Lewin a youngster but not Richarlison, who is younger than Calvert-Lewin?

Because he's not from our youth team. He was a £40m new signing. 

All our kids got less time this season bar DCL (technically he got less 1769 to 1871 but roughly the same). Coleman had a very poor season especially the first half, and Gana and Gomes was painful to watch at times, then there's Sigurdssen who was largely anonymous. Kenny, Davies and Dowell (or ideally kept Vlasic and used him, similarly Holgate for Keane who hardly lit the world alight) should have all got more minutes. DCL should have started as our striker from the off and got more minutes than he did too. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Because he's not from our youth team. He was a £40m new signing. 

All our kids got less time this season bar DCL (technically he got less 1769 to 1871 but roughly the same). Coleman had a very poor season especially the first half, and Gana and Gomes was painful to watch at times, then there's Sigurdssen who was largely anonymous. Kenny, Davies and Dowell (or ideally kept Vlasic and used him, similarly Holgate for Keane who hardly lit the world alight) should have all got more minutes. DCL should have started as our striker from the off and got more minutes than he did too. 

 

36 minutes ago, StevO said:

You know DCL wasn’t from our youth team right? 

 

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

I really hope you're wrong on Keane being here for the long-stay. I'm hoping Holgate can push him out the team this season.

For me we were never gonna win anything with Jags, he just doesn't have the grit. Keane would fit into that type too. 

I'd give it to Coleman as he's got the qualities and is most senior. But hopefully he'd be on the bench and another can step up and take the armband on the pitch. 

He deserved more minutes last year, got twice as many last season and the one before. Silva's use of the kids was dire, especially with Brands saying at the start of the season our youth players are good enough to fill the squad. Only one that got proper minutes was DCL but that was after reluctantly excepting Tosun and Richarlison weren't cutting it up top. 

Sigh :doh:

your dedication to ignorance and flat out intentionally ignoring common sense is weirdly admirable though

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

You know DCL wasn’t from our youth team right? 

Didn't say he was. He's wasn't a £40m Brazilian on the verge of an international call up. He was a kid we bought the season before, spent less than a year in the youth team and impressed enough that the previous two managers used him. He should have been first choice over Tosun at the start of the season, yet Silva demoted him to third choice. 

26 minutes ago, Matt said:

Sigh :doh:

your dedication to ignorance and flat out intentionally ignoring common sense is weirdly admirable though

Don't see where you're coming from. What youth players has Silva shown faith in? The team was woeful yet Davies and Kenny only got minutes through injury. In the first 16 games DCL only played the full 90 twice and that was because Richarlison was banned, he only played more than 45 minutes in a further 2 games in that spell with 15 minutes or less in the other matches. 

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All this not playing players from the youth team is pretty much out dated now for us, we are team with money with an owner who is throwing money at it looking for success, the fact we are going through so many managers would suggest to me the case for what I have just said.

Now go back a few years and youth players were tried out more as a necessity than a choice, we see that in all the teams with money they buy the finished article in most instances rather than improve and promote with in we are now starting unfortunately to follow that trend, but hey we wanted money and that's what money does.

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8 hours ago, Palfy said:

All this not playing players from the youth team is pretty much out dated now for us, we are team with money with an owner who is throwing money at it looking for success, the fact we are going through so many managers would suggest to me the case for what I have just said.

Now go back a few years and youth players were tried out more as a necessity than a choice, we see that in all the teams with money they buy the finished article in most instances rather than improve and promote with in we are now starting unfortunately to follow that trend, but hey we wanted money and that's what money does.

But we didn't use the rest of the squad, I'd hazard a guess this is the smallest squad we've used since Moyes and his favouritism ways left. Silva used the same players regardless of form or opposition. Keane, Coleman, Gomes, Gana, Sigurdssen, Richarlison, and Bernard all played more matches than they should, they all had spells were they didn't deserve to start the next match or the one after that but Silva stuck with them regardless. It's poor management, makes the starting eleven comfortable so you won't get the max out of them, and make the rest of the squad disillusioned as it doesn't matter what they do as they won't get much game time. 

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13 minutes ago, pete0 said:

But we didn't use the rest of the squad, I'd hazard a guess this is the smallest squad we've used since Moyes and his favouritism ways left. Silva used the same players regardless of form or opposition. Keane, Coleman, Gomes, Gana, Sigurdssen, Richarlison, and Bernard all played more matches than they should, they all had spells were they didn't deserve to start the next match or the one after that but Silva stuck with them regardless. It's poor management, makes the starting eleven comfortable so you won't get the max out of them, and make the rest of the squad disillusioned as it doesn't matter what they do as they won't get much game time. 

Dropping a player after one or two games when they've not been at their best can be counter productive to their confidence surely (though I'd disagree many/any on your list were poor enough to even consider dropping them in the first place)? Silva sees the squad all week in training and certainly always has his preferred XI in mind, he made small changes all season long when he felt the need though and we finished on a big high (though I know you think was down to the poor quality of the opposition rather than our performances. 4-0 ManU? Pfft).

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47 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Dropping a player after one or two games when they've not been at their best can be counter productive to their confidence surely (though I'd disagree many/any on your list were poor enough to even consider dropping them in the first place)? Silva sees the squad all week in training and certainly always has his preferred XI in mind, he made small changes all season long when he felt the need though and we finished on a big high (though I know you think was down to the poor quality of the opposition rather than our performances. 4-0 ManU? Pfft).

Bar eventually landing on DCL up top and the three wingers rotating a little bit there was very little change. You could predict our starting eleven most weeks with ease. Changes only got made when forced. Fair enough if the teams on a good run but for large parts of the season they weren't and players played when they didn't deserve to. 

Maybe I worded it poorly, I don't just mean after one poor game. These players weren't just poor in one match or two it was prolonged spells of nothingness. Many a game you wouldn't even notice Sigurdssen until he scored yet the guy played every single week. 

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18 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

BAINES.jpg

Said this in another thread previously, but to get is back on topic, Baines shouldn't have started against Wolves over Kenny who then come on and was TT motm. Coleman come off injured too which then got Kenny two starts and only one further after that being when Coleman withdrew because he was ill. 

And to get us back of topic, similarly Tom Davies was TT motm in his last two starts for us. Yet in the 10 games following he only got 10 minutes across three games. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Said this in another thread previously, but to get is back on topic, Baines shouldn't have started against Wolves over Kenny

Baines will be decent cover when he isn'tt injured.  You are correct he should not have played that Wolves game or even have been in the matchday squad due to injury.  Flew over and witnessed that game firsthand.

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Said this in another thread previously, but to get is back on topic, Baines shouldn't have started against Wolves over Kenny who then come on and was TT motm. Coleman come off injured too which then got Kenny two starts and only one further after that being when Coleman withdrew because he was ill. 

And to get us back of topic, similarly Tom Davies was TT motm in his last two starts for us. Yet in the 10 games following he only got 10 minutes across three games. 

Actually agree with you here, kinda, but the players Davies would’ve replaced were the only players doing well during that slump. 

Baines should never have started that game and I can only think he was forced to. That game and a couple of others are the reason I think Kenny is perfectly fine as back up for Coleman

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On 19/06/2019 at 13:34, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I am certainly glad we are keeping him another year. Not a bad piece, decent quotes and interesting stuff but.....The headline was "Details Of" which leads you to think that's the crux of what you're about to read. "Baines signs a one-year deal." And then 500 (made up number) other words that have zero mention of details. I rolled my eyes when I read it because even 30+ years after the fact, my high school English teachers would rip me if I turned that in! 

And yes, I am qualified to speak on this - not because I am trained journalist, but because I live in Alabama, the home of bad journalism 🙄 

 

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46 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

I am certainly glad we are keeping him another year. Not a bad piece, decent quotes and interesting stuff but.....The headline was "Details Of" which leads you to think that's the crux of what you're about to read. "Baines signs a one-year deal." And then 500 (made up number) other words that have zero mention of details. I rolled my eyes when I read it because even 30+ years after the fact, my high school English teachers would rip me if I turned that in! 

And yes, I am qualified to speak on this - not because I am trained journalist, but because I live in Alabama, the home of bad journalism 🙄 

 

I love Alabama, but I hate journalists. 

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2 hours ago, Ghoat said:

I am certainly glad we are keeping him another year. Not a bad piece, decent quotes and interesting stuff but.....The headline was "Details Of" which leads you to think that's the crux of what you're about to read. "Baines signs a one-year deal." And then 500 (made up number) other words that have zero mention of details. I rolled my eyes when I read it because even 30+ years after the fact, my high school English teachers would rip me if I turned that in! 

And yes, I am qualified to speak on this - not because I am trained journalist, but because I live in Alabama, the home of bad journalism 🙄 

 

Explains the grammatical mistakes, Mr trained journalist :P 

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9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Explains the grammatical mistakes, Mr trained journalist :P 

Appears this wasn't as clear written as it was in my head -  "not because I am trained journalist" was meant to imply "because I'm not". To be fair, I was educated in Mississippi, so the fact it only took 3-4 edits before the spell-checker could even realize it was "journalist" I was trying to spell makes me kinda proud. Ish.

 

And in case you missed the details, Baines signed a one-year deal with us ;) 

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