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Phil Jagielka

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40 minutes ago, StevO said:

Gutted to be honest, I think he has a lot of offer the other lads in the team. 

Me too, I guess he still wants more playing time, hope he goes back to Sheffield Utd and helps them.

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I’m gutted he still has so much to offer whether that be playing 8 or 9 games a season or maybe working with players on the training pitch, I hope it was his decision and he didn’t feel forced out. 

I’m sure his association isn’t over with this club and he will be back in some capacity when he hangs his boots up, until then thanks for everything and good luck in your next challenge. 

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call me whatever you want but other than being a nice guy and a professional he was nothing more than an above average defender.  keane this year was already at his level or better for me.  sad to see a nice guy and club servant go, but i won't miss him as a player.

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4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

call me whatever you want but other than being a nice guy and a professional he was nothing more than an above average defender.  keane this year was already at his level or better for me.  sad to see a nice guy and club servant go, but i won't miss him as a player.

Agree with the first half, but don't think we've kicked on with Keane. 

Should never have been made captain and it was unprofessional at best for Moyes to declare him as club captain when the ginger fucker was not gonna be the one managing the team. Captain wise he was a step down from Neville. Player wise he's never been the best out of the two centre halves. Person wise he was probs the nicest but nice doesn't win you anything. 

Glad he's going because he's not good enough. Much like Tim Howard and Cahill, he's been comfortable picking up a wage here for longer than he should thanks to loyalty rather than ability. 

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I think it’s the best move for both parties but I don’t agree with the average defender quote. And I don’t agree with the Cahill shout either. They both have earned the right to contribute. Whether that’s on the pitch or behind the scenes. Jags is one of the last of his type. Loyal to a club for 12 years and happy with his lot. 

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18 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Not sure how long you’ve been supporting Everton but Jags in his prime was a hell of a lot more than an above average defender

yeah him and distin were real worldies, i remember the dread the minute we went up 1-0 in the 72nd minute every match knowing moyes was about to bring on Heitinga and we'd have to watch them 3 try and defend for our lives.  I can't remember how many times they scored in the 90th minute and i was deflated.  thank god those days are gone.

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9 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah him and distin were real worldies, i remember the dread the minute we went up 1-0 in the 72nd minute every match knowing moyes was about to bring on Heitinga and we'd have to watch them 3 try and defend for our lives.  I can't remember how many times they scored in the 90th minute and i was deflated.  thank god those days are gone.

Not long then

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1 hour ago, Finn balor said:

I think it’s the best move for both parties but I don’t agree with the average defender quote. And I don’t agree with the Cahill shout either. They both have earned the right to contribute. Whether that’s on the pitch or behind the scenes. Jags is one of the last of his type. Loyal to a club for 12 years and happy with his lot. 

Compare the points we get with him to without. Remember comparing him with Heitinga and Yobo and both come out better. Can't be bothered going through all the stats again so just looked at our best season with him 13/14, we averaged 1.69 points per game with him (26 matches) compared to 2.33 ppg in the 12 without him. Stones was just a teenager and was a level above. We should have aimed higher than Jagielka years ago (same as we should have tried to upgrade on Howard too).

Cahill was brilliant in his day, but it was painful watching him play further back once his legs had gone a bit. 

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2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

call me whatever you want but other than being a nice guy and a professional he was nothing more than an above average defender.  keane this year was already at his level or better for me.  sad to see a nice guy and club servant go, but i won't miss him as a player.

Ever worked alongside someone with experience and knowledge that you don’t have?

Ask an Arsenal fan what they would give for some above average defenders. 

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1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah him and distin were real worldies, i remember the dread the minute we went up 1-0 in the 72nd minute every match knowing moyes was about to bring on Heitinga and we'd have to watch them 3 try and defend for our lives.  I can't remember how many times they scored in the 90th minute and i was deflated.  thank god those days are gone.

I’m pretty certain none of that happened, especially under Moyes as he had an exceptionally well drilled back line and didnt often switch to a back three. Moyes’s teams very rarely conceded late either.

Distin’s last season was poor, but your opinion on Jags Just doesn’t make sense. I’ve watched this guy in the flesh for the last 12 years, I don’t see how any Evertonian doesn’t appreciate him.

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

I’m pretty certain none of that happened, especially under Moyes as he had an exceptionally well drilled back line and didnt often switch to a back three. Moyes’s teams very rarely conceded late either.

Distin’s last season was poor, but your opinion on Jags Just doesn’t make sense. I’ve watched this guy in the flesh for the last 12 years, I don’t see how any Evertonian doesn’t appreciate him.

You will always get some people trying to rewrite history , that back 4 of Coleman Jags Distin and Baines were superb and in Moyes last season had the 4th best defensive record in the Prem

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4 hours ago, pete0 said:

Agree with the first half, but don't think we've kicked on with Keane. 

Should never have been made captain and it was unprofessional at best for Moyes to declare him as club captain when the ginger fucker was not gonna be the one managing the team. Captain wise he was a step down from Neville. Player wise he's never been the best out of the two centre halves. Person wise he was probs the nicest but nice doesn't win you anything. 

Glad he's going because he's not good enough. Much like Tim Howard and Cahill, he's been comfortable picking up a wage here for longer than he should thanks to loyalty rather than ability. 

Guess this is just you being you 😂

The fact you didn’t rate any of these 3 speaks volumes, I swear you wouldn’t recognise a good footballer if he kicked you in the bollocks

 

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44 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Guess this is just you being you 😂

The fact you didn’t rate any of these 3 speaks volumes, I swear you wouldn’t recognise a good footballer if he kicked you in the bollocks

 

Baines was the only one good enough, should've been second choice for England behind Cole. That said we should've replaced him a few years earlier. 

Moyes went stale and was royally found out since leaving us. Jags as a player is average and as a captain is poor. Pienaar had tons of ability but no brain to apply it, would've been great at 5 aside. 

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5 hours ago, StevO said:

I’m pretty certain none of that happened, especially under Moyes as he had an exceptionally well drilled back line and didnt often switch to a back three. Moyes’s teams very rarely conceded late either.

Distin’s last season was poor, but your opinion on Jags Just doesn’t make sense. I’ve watched this guy in the flesh for the last 12 years, I don’t see how any Evertonian doesn’t appreciate him.

heitinga was played as a DM, it was not a back 3.  dinosaur moyes would never do a progressive thing like a back 3, you kidding me!  but he was brought on to essentially be another defender due to moyes defend the lead at all costs (who cares about scoring anyways!) mantra.  i never said i didn't appreciate him, i just don't think he was as good as the rosy glasses look back in time people think he was.  i started following everton when he was the bedrock back there with distin and baines and coleman (or hibbert).  Baines was class all the way, i'll never dispute that, but jags and distin had a brainfart every match that was costly.  jags was the faster of the too and the more composed so he could get away with it more, but when moyes threw on that sub right at the 70' mark without fail every match (wasn't always heiteinga as dm, but it was defensive if we were protecting a lead) i was dreading it.  i hated that feeling.  knowing they would probably bang one in while we defended for our lives.  it's scarred me. you may think i'm a nut for loving the attacking football score 10-8 games, but i'll take that over those moyes defend and pray anytime.  some heartbreakers back then.

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44 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

heitinga was played as a DM, it was not a back 3.  dinosaur moyes would never do a progressive thing like a back 3, you kidding me!  but he was brought on to essentially be another defender due to moyes defend the lead at all costs (who cares about scoring anyways!) mantra.  i never said i didn't appreciate him, i just don't think he was as good as the rosy glasses look back in time people think he was.  i started following everton when he was the bedrock back there with distin and baines and coleman (or hibbert).  Baines was class all the way, i'll never dispute that, but jags and distin had a brainfart every match that was costly.  jags was the faster of the too and the more composed so he could get away with it more, but when moyes threw on that sub right at the 70' mark without fail every match (wasn't always heiteinga as dm, but it was defensive if we were protecting a lead) i was dreading it.  i hated that feeling.  knowing they would probably bang one in while we defended for our lives.  it's scarred me. you may think i'm a nut for loving the attacking football score 10-8 games, but i'll take that over those moyes defend and pray anytime.  some heartbreakers back then.

To me it sounds like you have been brought up on MLS brand of football were teams no Jack shit about defending and if there isn'tt as you said loads of goals it's shit and boring, I've seen games in this country that have been 0-0 yet have been riveting to watch because of the sheer brilliance of skill and ability on the pitch, which I understand is a hard concept for an American audience to understand.

And Jags has been involved in games like that were some of the best strikers in the world have been shut out by the brilliance and determination of his play and it's been a pleasure to watch.

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12 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

call me whatever you want but other than being a nice guy and a professional he was nothing more than an above average defender.  keane this year was already at his level or better for me.  sad to see a nice guy and club servant go, but i won't miss him as a player.

You either have a very short memory or don't understand what makes a top class defender. Jags had two attributes I don't think Keane has from what have seen - leadership and a bloody minded determination to stop the opposition scoring at all costs. He was never the quickest but would mix it physically with anyone and read the game fantastically. He made Lescott, who had much better natural attributes, look world class because of his organisational abilities. Like Lescott, Keane needs his hand holding. He has time to prove me wrong but I just don't see him replacing what Jags has given us over the years. 

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11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah him and distin were real worldies, i remember the dread the minute we went up 1-0 in the 72nd minute every match knowing moyes was about to bring on Heitinga and we'd have to watch them 3 try and defend for our lives.  I can't remember how many times they scored in the 90th minute and i was deflated.  thank god those days are gone.

Because we don't concede late goals anymore 🙄

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3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Baines was class all the way, i'll never dispute that, but jags and distin had a brainfart every match that was costly.  jags was the faster of the too and the more composed so he could get away with it more

And sorry, not to look like I'm picking on you, but I can't let that go - Jags has never been especially quick, Distin was rapid, especially so for a 30-plus year old. 

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Wouldn’t be a TT thread without some short-sighted, dementia inspired nonsense...

Bit condescending and insulting that mate!

I know some very intelligent dementia sufferers!

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1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Bit condescending and insulting that mate!

I know some very intelligent dementia sufferers!

Couldn’t think of a better word, sorry! Short term or goldfish memories would be better I guess 

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24 minutes ago, Matt said:

Couldn’t think of a better word, sorry! Short term or goldfish memories would be better I guess 

Just thought it was a bit insulting to dementia sufferers that’s all 😉

 

Edit: I am only joking MJB/PeteO. Everyone’s entitled to their own views.... however wrong you might be!

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6 hours ago, Palfy said:

To me it sounds like you have been brought up on MLS brand of football were teams no Jack shit about defending and if there isn'ttt as you said loads of goals it's shit and boring, I've seen games in this country that have been 0-0 yet have been riveting to watch because of the sheer brilliance of skill and ability on the pitch, which I understand is a hard concept for an American audience to understand.

And Jags has been involved in games like that were some of the best strikers in the world have been shut out by the brilliance and determination of his play and it's been a pleasure to watch.

There’s the Derogatory “you’re an American, how could you get football remark” !  I’ve never watched or been to an MLS game.  I started my football life playing it and then watching the World Cup.  I followed the US men’s team and got into Everton from Tim Howard.  

3 hours ago, nogs said:

And sorry, not to look like I'm picking on you, but I can't let that go - Jags has never been especially quick, Distin was rapid, especially so for a 30-plus year old. 

He was clocked the fastest player in the league a couple years back!!  

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49 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

He was clocked the fastest player in the league a couple years back!!  

He was, and it often saved him from being out of position of making last ditch tackles when the opposition look certain to score. 

That run in the derby blew me away!

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9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

heitinga was played as a DM, it was not a back 3.  dinosaur moyes would never do a progressive thing like a back 3, you kidding me!  but he was brought on to essentially be another defender due to moyes defend the lead at all costs (who cares about scoring anyways!) mantra.  i never said i didn't appreciate him, i just don't think he was as good as the rosy glasses look back in time people think he was.  i started following everton when he was the bedrock back there with distin and baines and coleman (or hibbert).  Baines was class all the way, i'll never dispute that, but jags and distin had a brainfart every match that was costly.  jags was the faster of the too and the more composed so he could get away with it more, but when moyes threw on that sub right at the 70' mark without fail every match (wasn't always heiteinga as dm, but it was defensive if we were protecting a lead) i was dreading it.  i hated that feeling.  knowing they would probably bang one in while we defended for our lives.  it's scarred me. you may think i'm a nut for loving the attacking football score 10-8 games, but i'll take that over those moyes defend and pray anytime.  some heartbreakers back then.

Amazing how short people memories can be. Horrible seeing Heitinga come on and us drop deep. 

For me Jags got away with it more as Distin saved his arse more often or tried to and ended up getting the blame when it was actually Jagielka's fault. Jags didn't cover Distin as much, didn't take the yellow either. Look at Terry and Cahill compared to Jagielka. He was miles behind them two. Looking at our own club he's miles behind Watson and Neville as a captain too. 

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

Jags was in his day an excellent player when him and Lescott played together they were probably the best central defensive partnership in the league at that time, and Jags was the organiser in what was a very good defensive pairing.

I can't believe that people only saw him at that time as a just above an average player he was much more than that.

When Lescott was here him and Yobo were our best partnership. 

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9 hours ago, Palfy said:

To me it sounds like you have been brought up on MLS brand of football were teams no Jack shit about defending and if there isn'ttt as you said loads of goals it's shit and boring, I've seen games in this country that have been 0-0 yet have been riveting to watch because of the sheer brilliance of skill and ability on the pitch, which I understand is a hard concept for an American audience to understand.

And Jags has been involved in games like that were some of the best strikers in the world have been shut out by the brilliance and determination of his play and it's been a pleasure to watch.

Is that even necessary to say? :rolleyes:

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15 minutes ago, sibdane said:

Is that even necessary to say? :rolleyes:

Trump is in England; that gives us permission to say whatever we want without any consequences (luckily, same as last time he was in our country, I'm not:D), it's called "Trump's Law".

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Trump is in England; that gives us permission to say whatever we want without any consequences (luckily, same as last time he was in our country, I'm not:D), it's called "Trump's Law".

:shakingfist::Redcard:

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16 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Guess this is just you being you 😂

The fact you didn’t rate any of these 3 speaks volumes, I swear you wouldn’t recognise a good footballer if he kicked you in the bollocks

 

Best transfer window in modern history. 

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6 hours ago, barryj said:

Shocked at some of the views here! I thought he’d be universally applauded for all his efforts, commitment, charity work and loyalty. If we had the chance to resign him as a 24 year old I’d snap your hand off. Although he’d be worth a lot more now than the 4 million we paid. Bill Kenwright sums him up nicely as “one of Everton’s greatest servants” and a player who “embodies the spirit and values of the Blues”

There will always be a small minority (and Pete ) who disagree with anything ( everything in Petes case) but you only need to look at the reaction to this news on social media, the press , the players past and present and the reception he got in his last game at Goodison to see what kind of player he really was 

If he ends up coming back to Goodison with Sheffield United next season I’m 100% certain he will get a rousing reception 

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3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Amazing how short people memories can be. Horrible seeing Heitinga come on and us drop deep. 

For me Jags got away with it more as Distin saved his arse more often or tried to and ended up getting the blame when it was actually Jagielka's fault. Jags didn't cover Distin as much, didn't take the yellow either. Look at Terry and Cahill compared to Jagielka. He was miles behind them two. Looking at our own club he's miles behind Watson and Neville as a captain too. 

When Lescott was here him and Yobo were our best partnership. 

Amazing how blind some can be because they dislike a player, let alone a poor memory 

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2 hours ago, sibdane said:

Is that even necessary to say? :rolleyes:

In the context of how I said it yes it was necessary to say and I standby it, if I’ve in someways up set you  then I apologise , but I fail to see how?

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17 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Guess this is just you being you 😂

The fact you didn’t rate any of these 3 speaks volumes, I swear you wouldn’t recognise a good footballer if he kicked you in the bollocks

 

Wonder how long it took to get the shot lined up to appear that Pienaar was chained to Moyes?

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15 minutes ago, Palfy said:

In the context of how I said it yes it was necessary to say and I standby it, if I’ve in someways up set you  then I apologise , but I fail to see how?

Not upset. Just think the generalization is pretty short-sited. You're using someone's nationality as an argument against them, which in my opinion, is pretty poor.

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6 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

There’s the Derogatory “you’re an American, how could you get football remark” !  I’ve never watched or been to an MLS game.  I started my football life playing it and then watching the World Cup.  I followed the US men’s team and got into Everton from Tim Howard.  

He was clocked the fastest player in the league a couple years back!!  

A derogatory your an American remark let me give you a British reply to that accusation fuck off your talking bollocks😀

It’s a fact that football in the USA is considered boring by the majority because there isn’t enough goals or goal action, so much so that they even wanted to make up there own rules to encourage more goals to try and appease the American public, that’s why I said what I said not as a personal put down to you but as a general view of football in the states. 

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2 minutes ago, sibdane said:

Not upset. Just think the generalization is pretty short-sited. You're using someone's nationality as an argument against them, which in my opinion, is pretty poor.

I’m not I’m using the general feeling about football in the states, and most Americans take on it that unless there’s a hat full of goals every game there not interested, and they can’t see the art and ability of 0-0 game so they dislike football for that reason. 

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I’m not I’m using the general feeling about football in the states, and most Americans take on it that unless there’s a hat full of goals every game there not interested, and they can’t see the art and ability of 0-0 game so they dislike football for that reason. 

I don't think you can lump MJB into the category of "most Americans."

For the record, I agree with you on Jags. I think he's been brilliant for us.

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1 minute ago, sibdane said:

I don't think you can lump MJB into the category of "most Americans."

For the record, I agree with you on Jags. I think he's been brilliant for us.

Ok that’s fair enough I could have put it in better terms when saying what I said, but it was Marks statement of the 10-8 games that prompted me to say what I said, which I find to be the general view of football in America by the majority and because the reality is football isn’t like that the majority don’t like football.

But again I reiterate it wasn’t meant to come across as a slur to Mark or his ethnicity. 

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2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Ok that’s fair enough I could have put it in better terms when saying what I said, but it was Marks statement of the 10-8 games that prompted me to say what I said, which I find to be the general view of football in America by the majority and because the reality is football isn’t like that the majority don’t like football.

But again I reiterate it wasn’t meant to come across as a slur to Mark or his ethnicity. 

I get what you mean, and you're not far off about the majority of Americans' feelings towards football to be honest.

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