Phil Jagielka

[Hafnia]

Why are you bitching and moaning about Lukaku in the Jags thread?! There just no link between the discussion we were having and Rom!

 

Don't forget Barkley... unless its ok to bitch about him

[Matt]

 

Don't forget Barkley... unless its ok to bitch about him

dont mind if you bitch about him in his thread

[MC11]

Barkley. As an Evertonian, he should feel something for the club and be the one to stand on the shoulders of giants and be pulling up all these "foreign cnuts" to his level. He SHOULD be our center piece, the 'Diamond' in the crown, the local lad with a heart of fire.

 

He should be captain. But with him currently looking like a walking wet lettuce, doesn't even deserve a start.

 

Sort it the fuck out Ross.

 

Oh and Jags is a good 7/10.

Spot on post this.

[nogs]

Barkley hasn't got the mentality to fire himself up. He needs strong leadership to guide him. He certainly doesn't get that from Martinez, and Jags is just too 'nice'. I think Jags has been a great servant to Everton, but he doesn't cut it as captain for me. Sets the right example, professional, yes, but he's no Kevin Ratcliffe, is he? And let's face it, that's what this team lacks - focus, desire, aggression, commitment to the cause.

[StevO]

Barkley won't be fired up because that's not put into him by the manager making his game safe.

I'm guessing most of us have played football at some level, I know personally if I've lost a tackle or took a really hard 50/50, I'd be fired up big time. When you don't get involved in these situations at all, I think it takes the aggression from your game.

 

On Jags, I've seen things about him not being captain, I just don't get that. Your captain is the leader, not just the best player.

[pete0]

Why are you bitching and moaning about Lukaku in the Jags thread?! There just no link between the discussion we were having and Rom!

Because jags shouted at him in one game, the one in which he then went on to miss our best two chances himself.

[pete0]

Barkley. As an Evertonian, he should feel something for the club and be the one to stand on the shoulders of giants and be pulling up all these "foreign cnuts" to his level. He SHOULD be our center piece, the 'Diamond' in the crown, the local lad with a heart of fire.

 

He should be captain. But with him currently looking like a walking wet lettuce, doesn't even deserve a start.

 

Sort it the fuck out Ross.

 

Oh and Jags is a good 7/10.

With a better manager and captain we might see that side of Ross. He's the biggest let down this season outside of the defense.

[pete0]

 

For me this is why I would sell Ross for £50m.

 

Is he worth that much? His talent is worth more, his inconsistency and lack of brains means that for £50m a team could get their hands on a very good player who could win games on his own.

 

I would feel far more comfortable selling Lukaku for £50m than I would with Ross. For me I see Lukaku playing in Turkey within 5 years - seriously I do. He will go to a club at a price where his sporadic attitude will see him managed in a way that he is not accustomed to.

 

Everton to lukaku is like primary school, he gets away with a lot more than he should, secondary school beckons for the lad and I do not think he will handle his homework, the cane, detention, and his head being flushed down the bog. The change in expectation will cripple him, his mentality isn't strong enough and he lacks the fight.

 

Back to jags, one day people will look at him like a Mick Lyons. A good honest pro, who could read the game and put his body on the line. Nothing wrong with that - he will be far more fondly remembered than a joey yobo or materazzi or stones for that matter if he was to leave now.

Body on the line? He won't even risk a tenner five for a yellow.

[pete0]

Barkley won't be fired up because that's not put into him by the manager making his game safe.

I'm guessing most of us have played football at some level, I know personally if I've lost a tackle or took a really hard 50/50, I'd be fired up big time. When you don't get involved in these situations at all, I think it takes the aggression from your game.

 

On Jags, I've seen things about him not being captain, I just don't get that. Your captain is the leader, not just the best player.

He's not a leader though, other than shout at Lukaku once what has he done? I only see Barry arguing with the ref, Jags hides.

[Hafnia]

Barkley hasn't got the mentality to fire himself up. He needs strong leadership to guide him. He certainly doesn't get that from Martinez, and Jags is just too 'nice'. I think Jags has been a great servant to Everton, but he doesn't cut it as captain for me. Sets the right example, professional, yes, but he's no Kevin Ratcliffe, is he? And let's face it, that's what this team lacks - focus, desire, aggression, commitment to the cause.

 

Ratcliffe was one of 6 "men" in that side of the 80's - Southall, Van Den Hauwe, Reid, Gray and Sharpe.

 

Under Joe Royle - Southall, Ebbrell, Watson, Parkinson, and Ferguson.

 

Under Moyes we did have Cahill, Ferguson, Carsley and (Gravesen/Neville) - who for me were bit of a pretenders... but in this team we only have Coleman and Besic who seem to have a full understanding of saying it as it needs to be said. Jags and

Barry seem to take too long to act and when they do its muffled.

 

I have repeatedly said we need a souness, reid, viera, keane personality in the midfield..

[MC11]

Ratcliffe was one of 6 "men" in that side of the 80's - Southall, Van Den Hauwe, Reid, Gray and Sharpe.

 

Under Joe Royle - Southall, Ebbrell, Watson, Parkinson, and Ferguson.

 

Under Moyes we did have Cahill, Ferguson, Carsley and (Gravesen/Neville) - who for me were bit of a pretenders... but in this team we only have Coleman and Besic who seem to have a full understanding of saying it as it needs to be said. Jags and

Barry seem to take too long to act and when they do its muffled.

 

I have repeatedly said we need a souness, reid, viera, keane personality in the midfield..

When the hell has Besic ever said it as it is? I've seen him talking to himself and punching the floor but never ever ever seen him bollock anyone.

[Hafnia]

Body on the line? He won't even risk a tenner five for a yellow.

 

Ah the yellow card count - the Rolls Royce statistic that all centre halves love the get loads of just to show they care.... ironically not many centre halves chalk up massive amounts of yellow cards - maybe its because as the last line of defence they run the risk of straight reds....

 

Jags defensive errors:-

 

2012/2013 = 4

2013/2014 = 0

2014/2015 = 4

2015/2016 = 2 so far

 

 

John Terry defensive errors:-

 

2012/2013 = 0

2013/2014 = 0

2014/2015 = 3

2015/2016 = 1 so far

 

so Terry makes 6 defensive errors less than Jags over 150 games.... its fair to say he is the bench mark.

 

Gary Cahill:-

 

2012/2013 = 2

2013/2014 = 0

2014/2015 = 4

2015/2016 = 2 so far - 2 mistakes more than Cahill

 

Ashley Williams:-

 

2012/2013 = 5

2013/2014 = 1

2014/2015 = 3

2015/2016 = 3 so far - 2 less than Ashley Williams

 

For the record - despite playing 68 games John Stones has made the same number of mistakes as Jags has made in 117 games...

 

I just think what you perceive is totally out of sync with the majority - he may not be a polished footballer but he is a very solid defender.

[Hafnia]

When the hell has Besic ever said it as it is? I've seen him talking to himself and punching the floor but never ever ever seen him bollock anyone.

 

after Stones cryuff turns he hardly went over to congratulate him did he?

 

after he was subbed against Arsenal he came out and said he completely agreed with the decision and he was disappointed with himself - that's saying it as it is.

[MC11]

 

after Stones cryuff turns he hardly went over to congratulate him did he?

 

after he was subbed against Arsenal he came out and said he completely agreed with the decision and he was disappointed with himself - that's saying it as it is.

Not for me! saying it as it is, is pushing boundaries. I.e calling the manager out or specific players. It's seems at a Everton the ones who do that get banished to the subs bench or reserves.

[Hafnia]

Not for me! saying it as it is, is pushing boundaries. I.e calling the manager out or specific players. It's seems at a Everton the ones who do that get banished to the subs bench or reserves.

 

We are talking about leaders on the pitch - focus, desire, aggression - commitment to the cause, saying it as it is in the context of this thread is players telling their team mates that they aren't doing their job. There simply isn't enough of them.

 

Throw Barkley and Lukaku into the side from the 80's or Royles team of the 90's and they would be getting torn a new one from one of 5 players who will not accept their laziness.

 

They wouldn't be able to argue back - there would be little point as they would get a slap after the game. It was well know that Southall was the authority - Mo Johnson chipped him in training and got a punch. Big Nev ignored young players around Bellefield till they had his respect. Big Dunc wasn't the hard man in Joe Royles team - Dave Watson was the hardest/most respected - full stop.

 

Alan Wright (the tiny full back from Villa) told me that at Blackburn Graeme Souness decided to play in a training match and absolutely launched Yorke who kicked off. Without even needing to explain why he did it - every player knew what it was about. Yorke was picking up his wage and wasn't bothered. Brutal - yes, but a reminder to the modern pro of how the old school policed things.

[johnh]

I wish we had a Wes Morgan (Leicester). Vardy and the other guy (can't remember his name) get all the plaudits but Leicester have had a lot of clean sheets most of which are down to Morgan. Big, hard, uncompromising, manages the defence. Good on the ball and in the air. He would be brilliant looking after the likes of Stones and Mori.

[Hafnia]

I wish we had a Wes Morgan (Leicester). Vardy and the other guy (can't remember his name) get all the plaudits but Leicester have had a lot of clean sheets most of which are down to Morgan. Big, hard, uncompromising, manages the defence. Good on the ball and in the air. He would be brilliant looking after the likes of Stones and Mori.

 

agree... very uncompromising defender who looks like he doesn't suffer fools either.

[Lowensda]

I liked this beauty from Redknapp in last week's column, for the Telegraph.

 

 

 

......Wes Morgan has 25 Caps for Jamaica.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/harry-redknapp-insists-jamaican-international-7685339

[MikeO]

......Wes Morgan has 25 Caps for Jamaica.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/harry-redknapp-insists-jamaican-international-7685339

 

 

Priceless.

[markjazzbassist]

LOL

 

morgan is great, also Huth is great too this year.

[pete0]

 

Ah the yellow card count - the Rolls Royce statistic that all centre halves love the get loads of just to show they care.... ironically not many centre halves chalk up massive amounts of yellow cards - maybe its because as the last line of defence they run the risk of straight reds....

 

Jags defensive errors:-

 

2012/2013 = 4

2013/2014 = 0

2014/2015 = 4

2015/2016 = 2 so far

 

 

John Terry defensive errors:-

 

2012/2013 = 0

2013/2014 = 0

2014/2015 = 3

2015/2016 = 1 so far

 

so Terry makes 6 defensive errors less than Jags over 150 games.... its fair to say he is the bench mark.

 

Gary Cahill:-

 

2012/2013 = 2

2013/2014 = 0

2014/2015 = 4

2015/2016 = 2 so far - 2 mistakes more than Cahill

 

Ashley Williams:-

 

2012/2013 = 5

2013/2014 = 1

2014/2015 = 3

2015/2016 = 3 so far - 2 less than Ashley Williams

 

For the record - despite playing 68 games John Stones has made the same number of mistakes as Jags has made in 117 games...

 

I just think what you perceive is totally out of sync with the majority - he may not be a polished footballer but he is a very solid defender.

All three of them are/were better than Jags. Bolton never recovered from losing Cahill, massively underrated. Only Williams is still first choice and he has 7 yellows, Jagielka has none, and only got one last season.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

He's not a leader though, other than shout at Lukaku once what has he done? I only see Barry arguing with the ref, Jags hides.

So your definition of a leader is someone who argues with a referee? You have a lot to learn about leadership I think

[pete0]

So your definition of a leader is someone who argues with a referee? You have a lot to learn about leadership I think

Someone who will risk a yellow by questioning the referees decision. Someone who will stick up for his teammates and try calm down a ruckus. Tim Howard has ran past him many times to go help a teammate. Jagielka is a disgraceful captain.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Someone who will risk a yellow by questioning the referees decision. Someone who will stick up for his teammates and try calm down a ruckus. Tim Howard has ran past him many times to go help a teammate. Jagielka is a disgraceful captain.

Just as I thought , you have a lot to learn about leadership!

 

Does your obsession with yellow cards make Gareth Barry the greatest leader in Premiership history?

[MikeO]

Someone who will risk a yellow by questioning the referees decision. Someone who will stick up for his teammates and try calm down a ruckus. Tim Howard has ran past him many times to go help a teammate. Jagielka is a disgraceful captain.

 

Questioning a refs decision is more likely to be counter-productive than helpful, how often do they change their mind after being harangued by a player? About never. And sticking up for a team mate is quite likely to cause a ruckus; so presumably you're saying that a good captain would create conflict and then diffuse it.

 

Arsonist and fireman in one package, interesting theory.

[StevO]

I'd love to see our players push the referee on decisions a bit more, but all of them. Our captain leads our team by setting the example, he is never lazy, he will put his body on the line, he is a good role model, he represents the club and does a great job of it. If you want some sort of Duncan Ferguson captain, who was really inspirational to all of the team, and young players, when he was getting himself sent off, then we don't want the same things.

[pete0]

Just as I thought , you have a lot to learn about leadership!

 

Does your obsession with yellow cards make Gareth Barry the greatest leader in Premiership history?

You've got a lot to learn.

 

Barry deserves to be captain more than Jags. Why would you prefer Jagielka?

[pete0]

 

Questioning a refs decision is more likely to be counter-productive than helpful, how often do they change their mind after being harangued by a player? About never. And sticking up for a team mate is quite likely to cause a ruckus; so presumably you're saying that a good captain would create conflict and then diffuse it.

 

Arsonist and fireman in one package, interesting theory.

It's a tactic used by Fergie that I would say played a large part in them winning titles.

[MikeO]

It's a tactic used by Fergie that I would say played a large part in them winning titles.

 

Debatable; maybe if you're ManU under SAF it could work, the other 91 clubs in the league I seriously doubt it.

[pete0]

 

Debatable; maybe if you're ManU under SAF it could work, the other 91 clubs in the league I seriously doubt it.

It worked for Chelsea when matic should have been sent off, instead we got a yellow. I'm not saying crowd the ref, but I want the captain to stick up for our players.