Same old Everton

[MC11]

I keep hearing this "we'll get there in the end, doesn't happen over night, Rome wasn't built in a day" I've been hearing the same shite for 12 years.

Edited February 13, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Ant1979]

The expectations from me have always been the same "Champions League qualification".

The squad was improved, dead wood shipped out and decent younger talent brought in. So I suppose I expected more once I'd seem what was on the books. The first 3 games where shite. I remember West Brom at home and thinking this is going to be a long season.

At present Martinez hasn't eclipsed Moyes for me. It's all very similar, except the football seems to be a lot better. That's not to say we didn't play good stuff under Moyes.

So would you agree that Martinez has matched the achievements of Moyes so far, whilst at the same time improving the standard of football? A pretty successful first season I would say? And it's not even over yet

[MikeO]

probably because this situation rarely happens, when did a team finishing 7th last qualify.

It's all ifs and ands an pots n pans haha.

I'll look that up for you. Edit: Bolton in 2007, Middlesboro in 2005.

 

It might rarely happen but we talk about it at great length every year.

 

This year it'd need City to win the Capital One (odds on) and the FA Cup Final (assuming we throw the game v Swansea as planned) to be between City/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool; so the two that progress at the week end would need to avoid each other in the draw but it's not exactly a long shot.

[marcopaulo]

runners up don't go in any more after this season do they? so it's more likely to happen after this season

[MikeO]

runners up don't go in any more after this season do they? so it's more likely to happen after this season

Yes I think someone posted about that a while back.....so next season we'll be runners up in the cup and finish eighth no doubt .

 

Though that'd seemingly please some.

[Bailey]

New manager

New playing style

New players

New backroom staff

Hit by injuries to multiple players

Amassed more points at this point in the season then last

Only 16 pts off our highest ever finish with a potential 36 up for grabs

FA cup 5th round at home against a favourable team

A great chance of European football

Five points off 5th with a game in hand

Liverpool will drop points and 4th is not completely out of the question although it is a big ask

AND SO ON.....

 

The first five points alone make this season a great one for me thus far when you really take into account the effects each one can have on a side....

 

Anyone would think this was a United forums thread with how negative some are we've had no fall from grace nor have we had a bad season so far and with players coming back into the fold things will hopefully pick up from now on.

 

Amen

 

 

I know....it just winds me up.

 

Twice I've posted on here in great detail (and in previous years) how European progress has done no harm whatsoever to our league form so there's no reason why it should again and every f'king year people come on with shite about it only earning us £2.50 and "look what it did to Swansea/whoever".

 

European nights at Goodison are superb and I'm sure the foreign trips are even better.....what the fuck do people who support Everton want? I was thirty yards from Eusabio a few years back; and the noise from the Portuguese fans was incredible. Lost the game but I'll never forget the night!

 

 

 

Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

I loved going to the European games, seeing Goodison under the lights and rocking most of the time. And we had some memorable nights. That Fiorentina game will live long in my memory. Yeah we didn't get the result we needed but we absolutely battered them that night, Goodison was a bear pit and if not for Frey we'd have beaten them comfortably and gone into the next round.

 

I miss the European games and I'd give anything to get them back even though it was a bitch playing Sunday in the league.

 

Agree with both of you. I also love the fact that people expect a manager and his players to being able to compete in the CL without any collective European football under competitive conditions. Granted a lot of the players have been based outside the UK but the Europa League is also a good place to start and if we managed to get through to the latter stages, we could potentially come up against some of the best European sides.

 

Lukaku seems to be under a 2:1 striker which is ok but not good enough for top 4. You need someone with a better ratio. At least 20-25 goals a season leading the line.

 

I find him more than not "static", very lethargic. Very rare you see him make opportunity for himself. His link up play is non existant. His touch and passing ability is atrocious. I would not be putting a £20m egg towards that basket.

 

In the last two seasons (unless stated otherwise)

 

Lukaku 55 games - 26 goals = 0.47

Giroud 57 games - 21 goals = 0.37

Rooney 64 games - 27 goals = 0.42

RVP 52 games - 36 goals = 0.69

Drogba (last 2 seasons at Chelsea) 81 games - 26 goals = 0.32

Torres 88 games - 30 goals = 0.34

Adebayor 69 games - 30 goals = 0.43

Defoe 65 games - 25 goals = 0.38

 

Aside from the 3 stand out Premier League strikers in RVP and Sturridge/Suarez, Lukaku's record is as good as any other striker's in the premiership.

 

Lukaku runs his arse off game in game out. Really hard nut busting sprints, especially early in a game, often getting kicked to shit and also more recently without the real service he thrives on (I dont agree with the previous Barkley comments, I think its all of the injuries combined as the stand ins havent had an awful lot of service either). The notion that Lukaku doesnt create his own opportunities is an absolute fallacy, just watch his goals back from the last two seasons and you will see why. His link up play is also pretty good (again watch his goals and look at how many he is involved in the build up) and whilst I think his touch is average for a Premier League striker it is certainly no worse.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

If you cant see how far the team and club as a whole has come under Martinez then I seriously wonder what matches you have been watching.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that Martinez will get us in the top four just not this season maybe next season or the season after.

 

To adapt and play the way we have been playing successfully albeit not recently when a huge change at the football club is nothing short of exceptional.

 

This season was always going to be a season of evolution and change.

 

To be even challenging that top four considering this is his first season and with the injuries we have had I am not only talking about the past few months I am talking about the lads who haven't even played Kone and Gibson is "phenomenal"

 

 

YeahMartinez has us playing a better brand of football but has it really effected our league standing?

 

I admire the job he is doing and I love his poitivity but I just dont think we are anywhere near as good as the current top 4 and we never will be until we have the money to copete on a even playing field. Its nit a critisicm of Martinez its just a fact of modern day football

[Bailey]

 

 

YeahMartinez has us playing a better brand of football but has it really effected our league standing?

 

I admire the job he is doing and I love his poitivity but I just dont think we are anywhere near as good as the current top 4 and we never will be until we have the money to copete on a even playing field. Its nit a critisicm of Martinez its just a fact of modern day football

 

I think we have showed that we can compete, which IMO is the main thing, especially in his first season in charge.

 

Undoubtedly the league has improved this season, albeit not by massive amounts, and I believe that with a full strength side or at least injuries to some of our less important players rather than the main players, then we would still be bang there an in the firing line. Our biggest problem is that we dont have the squad to compete with the established money men and not necessarily because we havent got a good enough first 11.

 

The top 4 is a dream that we have at least got to aim for and it has been nice to actually have that dream alive this season. I think the last two seasons we should have been bang there as well, especially given the comparative weakness of Chelsea and City especially.

[Bailey]

To back up my last point... After 25 games with 45 points we would have been in joint 4th and only 1 point behind 3rd (in the 2012/13 season).

Edited February 13, 2014 by Bailey

[MikeO]

 

 

YeahMartinez has us playing a better brand of football but has it really effected our league standing?

 

 

Simple answer is yes.....most points we've had after twenty five games since this time nine years ago.

[MC11]

Amen

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree with both of you. I also love the fact that people expect a manager and his players to being able to compete in the CL without any collective European football under competitive conditions. Granted a lot of the players have been based outside the UK but the Europa League is also a good place to start and if we managed to get through to the latter stages, we could potentially come up against some of the best European sides.

 

 

 

In the last two seasons (unless stated otherwise)

 

Lukaku 55 games - 26 goals = 0.47

Giroud 57 games - 21 goals = 0.37

Rooney 64 games - 27 goals = 0.42

RVP 52 games - 36 goals = 0.69

Drogba (last 2 seasons at Chelsea) 81 games - 26 goals = 0.32

Torres 88 games - 30 goals = 0.34

Adebayor 69 games - 30 goals = 0.43

Defoe 65 games - 25 goals = 0.38

 

Aside from the 3 stand out Premier League strikers in RVP and Sturridge/Suarez, Lukaku's record is as good as any other striker's in the premiership.

 

Lukaku runs his arse off game in game out. Really hard nut busting sprints, especially early in a game, often getting kicked to shit and also more recently without the real service he thrives on (I dont agree with the previous Barkley comments, I think its all of the injuries combined as the stand ins havent had an awful lot of service either). The notion that Lukaku doesnt create his own opportunities is an absolute fallacy, just watch his goals back from the last two seasons and you will see why. His link up play is also pretty good (again watch his goals and look at how many he is involved in the build up) and whilst I think his touch is average for a Premier League striker it is certainly no worse.

You're basing his goal tally on 2 seasons. I'm basing it on the business end - for us! It's ok but it's nowhere near prolific and could be a lot better.

 

I also don't agree he runs his socks off. There has been many a game this season where he has been crap. His link up play is nothing like you describe it's crap.

[Hafnia]

Breaking the top 5 is not a one season few tweaks ease into it.... It's more a get a new style, get the right players and then make the breakthrough....

 

Breakthrough being the word to describe a clear league within a league, we could probably finish where Moyes did without too much of an improvement but we would be no where nearer breaking top 5, we could massively improve (which we have) and still finish in the same position such is the differential in quality of the top 4/5 teams.

[MC11]

To back up my last point... After 25 games with 45 points we would have been in joint 4th and only 1 point behind 3rd (in the 2012/13 season).

To back up my last point... After 25 games with 45 points we would have been in joint 4th and only 1 point behind 3rd (in the 2012/13 season).

Why are you basing your opinion on previous seasons? It's irrelevant. This is the season, this is the points tally and we are 6th. 8 points of 4th. It doesn't matter about previous seasons.

[Newty82]

The expectations from me have always been the same "Champions League qualification".

 

The squad was improved, dead wood shipped out and decent younger talent brought in. So I suppose I expected more once I'd seem what was on the books. The first 3 games where shite. I remember West Brom at home and thinking this is going to be a long season.

 

At present Martinez hasn't eclipsed Moyes for me. It's all very similar, except the football seems to be a lot better. That's not to say we didn't play good stuff under Moyes.

Hang on, earlier on you said you 'had no expectations at all, I didnt know what to expect to be honest'...now you say you always expected CL football? Thats some turnaround in a few hours. Honestly, I aint trying to catch you out here, just looking for some honesty and rational thinking. So, lets assume you did always expect CL qualification, what is your reasoning as to why we would go from a team in 6th-8th to at least 4th? Baring in mind our net transfer spend over the last3, 5 & 10 years is always a minus figure?

 

And your statement above is terribly contradictory.

 

Lets also be honest. Of course Martinez hasn't eclipsed Moyes...Moyes was here for 10 years, Martinez has been here for 6 bloody months!!!! What the hell are people expecting?!!!

 

I cant believe how much a good start to the season has created such a deluded expectation.

 

As for Lukaku...I'll judge him at the end of the season. He has a number of games to make an impact. I hope for our sake, he does. But then his price will rocket (deja'vu!!!). The lad has answered questions, rather than shoot his mouth. Its the typical reaction we have to someone being honest.

[Hafnia]

I think I sense an agenda here...

[MC11]

Hang on, earlier on you said you 'had no expectations at all, I didnt know what to expect to be honest'...now you say you always expected CL football? Thats some turnaround in a few hours. Honestly, I aint trying to catch you out here, just looking for some honesty and rational thinking. So, lets assume you did always expect CL qualification, what is your reasoning as to why we would go from a team in 6th-8th to at least 4th? Baring in mind our net transfer spend over the last3, 5 & 10 years is always a minus figure?

And your statement above is terribly contradictory.

Lets also be honest. Of course Martinez hasn't eclipsed Moyes...Moyes was here for 10 years, Martinez has been here for 6 bloody months!!!! What the hell are people expecting?!!!

I cant believe how much a good start to the season has created such a deluded expectation.

As for Lukaku...I'll judge him at the end of the season. He has a number of games to make an impact. I hope for our sake, he does. But then his price will rocket (deja'vu!!!). The lad has answered questions, rather than shoot his mouth. Its the typical reaction we have to someone being honest.

I'll clear it up for you..

 

I've always expected this side to press for top 4. Let's have it straight. The side finished 6th last season and the squad was improved. Dead wood such as Hitzlsperger and Neville were gone. Young blood was given an opportunity.

 

On the flip side I didn't have a clue which way the season was going to go as this was a new manager, probably like 90% of fans we didn't know what to expect it could have gone either way. But in terms of what I'd see as a good season would be Champions League football. That didn't change.

[MC11]

I think I sense an agenda here...

What agenda do you sense?

[Newty82]

 

 

YeahMartinez has us playing a better brand of football but has it really effected our league standing?

 

I admire the job he is doing and I love his poitivity but I just dont think we are anywhere near as good as the current top 4 and we never will be until we have the money to copete on a even playing field. Its nit a critisicm of Martinez its just a fact of modern day football

That last bit is bang on. We are battling with teams who have spent absolute fuckin fortunes to get where they are...and have bigger commercial resources.

 

Thats not to say I think it cant happen, because it defo can with the right set up and consistent approach. But it takes just a bit longer.

 

We are not quite starting again. We are looking to a highly regarded man to build on a solid foundation built over 10 years. The next level wont come after just 6 months.

[Newty82]

I'll clear it up for you..

 

I've always expected this side to press for top 4. Let's have it straight. The side finished 6th last season and the squad was improved. Dead wood such as Hitzlsperger and Neville were gone. Young blood was given an opportunity.

 

On the flip side I didn't have a clue which way the season was going to go as this was a new manager, probably like 90% of fans we didn't know what to expect it could have gone either way. But in terms of what I'd see as a good season would be Champions League football. That didn't change.

You dont need to clear anything up for me. It's all crystal clear for me.

 

I think you need to clear it up for yourself.

[MC11]

That last bit is bang on. We are battling with teams who have spent absolute fuckin fortunes to get where they are...and have bigger commercial resources.

Thats not to say I think it cant happen, because it defo can with the right set up and consistent approach. But it takes just a bit longer.

We are not quite starting again. We are looking to a highly regarded man to build on a solid foundation built over 10 years. The next level wont come after just 6 months.

From everything I've read and listened to Martinez seems happy to role with the current financial status. Use of the loan market seems to be a big incentive of his. This all points to him going with the flow under the current board. A bit like a puppet.

 

So I just don't see how it gets better over a longer period of time? There's going to be no money again. Even if we do spend a bit in the summer. Come the following summer we'll be scratching our arses for funds again. It's a vicious circle.

Edited February 13, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[MC11]

You dont need to clear anything up for me. It's all crystal clear for me.

I think you need to clear it up for yourself.

There's a difference between your desired expectations and the expectation of a new manager coming in and guessing how he will perform.

 

It's crystal, yes.

[Brett Angel]

peteH you whopper.... if u read my thread properly u will see i am pointing out that we are not good enough for top four just yet......nowhere do i suggest martinez out.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Brett Angel

[Newty82]

Pah. I'll just be a passive reader of this topic now. Nothing else I can say. Its one of those that will go around in circles.

 

Although I have to admit that there are 2 types of people I cant help but allow to get right up my Anfield...arrogant and negative. I reallt do need to learn......

[MC11]

I think Martinez has done a good job at sustaining what Moyes left. Albeit a better brand of football. But the same cracks are there. They were just covered up for 5 months.

[MC11]

Pah. I'll just be a passive reader of this topic now. Nothing else I can say. Its one of those that will go around in circles.

Although I have to admit that there are 2 types of people I cant help but allow to get right up my Anfield...arrogant and negative. I reallt do need to learn......

If you're happy with a 6th place finish great. It's called stagnation and I crave more.

[Bailey]

You're basing his goal tally on 2 seasons. I'm basing it on the business end - for us! It's ok but it's nowhere near prolific and could be a lot better.

 

I also don't agree he runs his socks off. There has been many a game this season where he has been crap. His link up play is nothing like you describe it's crap.

 

Because he has been in the Premiership 2 seasons and I have showed you the comparitive records of other top strikers in the league. A striker that averages a goal every other game is worth his weight in gold because only the best are able to consistently score at that rate. You're basing it on nothing, because there is simply no basis for the claims you are making.

 

Did you even look back at any of his goals/assists over the last two seasons... Obviously not because you can see his involvement in the moves.

 

The point regarding league standings compared to this year and last year is extremely relevant if you are looking to compare season to season.

 

Hang on, earlier on you said you 'had no expectations at all, I didnt know what to expect to be honest'...now you say you always expected CL football? Thats some turnaround in a few hours. Honestly, I aint trying to catch you out here, just looking for some honesty and rational thinking. So, lets assume you did always expect CL qualification, what is your reasoning as to why we would go from a team in 6th-8th to at least 4th? Baring in mind our net transfer spend over the last3, 5 & 10 years is always a minus figure?

 

And your statement above is terribly contradictory.

 

Lets also be honest. Of course Martinez hasn't eclipsed Moyes...Moyes was here for 10 years, Martinez has been here for 6 bloody months!!!! What the hell are people expecting?!!!

 

I cant believe how much a good start to the season has created such a deluded expectation.

 

As for Lukaku...I'll judge him at the end of the season. He has a number of games to make an impact. I hope for our sake, he does. But then his price will rocket (deja'vu!!!). The lad has answered questions, rather than shoot his mouth. Its the typical reaction we have to someone being honest.

 

The two bits in bold are spot on!

[Hafnia]

Shite thread. Ridiculous to be honest.

 

Leave it at this... The team is better than the one Moyes left behind with some money remaining no doubt.

 

I have big reservations about kenwright but FFS I honestly worry about how some think the transfer policy should be in the club. Let's see how Bill sorts things out in the Sumner.

 

Until then, enjoy the better performance, the increased positivity, the better performances against top 4 sides and please just stop with the ridiculous premature expectations of a manager who has made big strides with our club.

[MC11]

Because he has been in the Premiership 2 seasons and I have showed you the comparitive records of other top strikers in the league. A striker that averages a goal every other game is worth his weight in gold because only the best are able to consistently score at that rate. You're basing it on nothing, because there is simply no basis for the claims you are making.[\b]

 

Did you even look back at any of his goals/assists over the last two seasons... Obviously not because you can see his involvement in the moves.

 

The point regarding league standings compared to this year and last year is extremely relevant if you are looking to compare season to season.

 

 

 

 

The two bits in bold are spot on!

The basis is on this season. For us which is all that matters. His record is not as impressive as you're trying to make out. No matter how you try to polish it up with his previous seasons return. You are putting him on par with Suarez, Sturridge etc. he's not even close to their standard at present.

 

His goals ratio this season is under 2:1 so therefore he is not a 1 in 2 striker. He's been on 9 goals for about 2 months.

[badaids]

Hmm, not sure about this thread. If you had offered me this at the beginning of the season, I'd have bitten your arm off. We've had a hard 6 weeks with injuries - let's see where we are when everyone is back...

[Bailey]

The basis is on this season. For us which is all that matters. His record is not as impressive as you're trying to make out. No matter how you try to polish it up with his previous seasons return. You are putting him on par with Suarez, Sturridge etc. he's not even close to their standard at present.

 

His goals ratio this season is under 2:1 so therefore he is not a 1 in 2 striker. He's been on 9 goals for about 2 months.

 

But players go through patches of scoring and not scoring (Suarez currenlty 1 in 6 & Giroud 1 in 5 for example). Who says Lukaku isnt going to now go on and score 10 more goals this season? He has scored 9 in 19 thats still roughly the same record as his overall record for the 2 years (in fact I think its slightly better!) so even then your argument doesnt stack up.

 

I have not put him on par with either of those players, in fact I specifically stated that I wasnt. I put him up against other strikers in the Premiership who are competing for those top 4 places.

 

Your clearly not reading what I am saying and you clearly have no other intention other making assumptions based on no foundation whatsoever.