Ciro Immobile

[Makis]

12 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I would keep him as long as it works. Simple really.

And comparing is trying to move forward with a team at the top? Maybe you have no ambition, but I do. I never aim to be average at anything and I am 100% sure Carlo didn’t come here to be average either. His target is to win things here. 
 

Your being foolish to think otherwise mate. Or your on the pop and feeling a bit negative tonight haha

Yes, it is completely ridiculous to compare us to City. They could spend half a billion this month and a billion next summer on players and their owners wouldn't even blink. You will only lose if you try to play with their rules.

[Shukes]

5 minutes ago, Makis said:

Yes, it is completely ridiculous to compare us to City. They could spend half a billion this month and a billion next summer on players and their owners wouldn't even blink. You will only lose if you try to play with their rules.

Your completely missing the point. 
It’s a personal choice that’s all. Mine is to aim to become better.... and I can guarantee you, Everton’s is to. 
some mid table teams aim is to stay in the premier league. That’s fine, they can buy to sell as much as they like. 
 

Everton's won’t be. Carlo speaks like he has a plan to achieve something. Brands talks of building. The club come out constantly talking about keeping our young core players and NOT selling just to cash in. 
 

You may have the opinion that we should buy players with a view of making cash on them in the future, but the club doesn’t, they want to move forward. 

[Makis]

12 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Exactly, you should never aim to finish a place above when your mid table.... you should aim to break the top four. 

And how do you think we can sign similar players to, say, Manchester United whose revenue is three times bigger than ours? How do you overspend them? City can spend what the fuck they want and the other four also have a revenue of at least twice ours.

[Makis]

Just now, Shukes said:

Your completely missing the point. 
It’s a personal choice that’s all. Mine is to aim to become better.... and I can guarantee you, Everton’s is to. 
some mid table teams aim is to stay in the premier league. That’s fine, they can buy to sell as much as they like. 
 

Everton's won’t be. Carlo speaks like he has a plan to achieve something. Brands talks of building. The club come out constantly talking about keeping our young core players and NOT selling just to cash in. 
 

You may have the opinion that we should buy players with a view of making cash on them in the future, but the club doesn’t, they want to move forward. 

Walsh likes this. He tried this with Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun, Bolasie etc. So we have tried what you want the club to do. I'm not exactly happy about the results. Of course you will say we should buy better but Walsh and Koeman didn't buy shite on purpose.

I'm in the opinion we should be clever in the market. That means maximising the value of the money spent. There are several clubs that are pulling above their weight in major European leagues by doing just this.

Note that transfer fees are not the only thing that matters, wages need to be considered as well. Younger players tend to have smaller wages so we can have more of quality players that way.

[Shukes]

Just now, Makis said:

And how do you think we can sign similar players to, say, Manchester United whose revenue is three times bigger than ours? How do you overspend them? City can spend what the fuck they want and the other four also have a revenue of at least twice ours.

You don’t have to, simple.

But you definitely SHOULD, be looking to buy players to make your team better, regardless of age. A better player for NOW will achieve better results, which in turn generates more flow. 
The club have spoke about business model many times.... and it’s always to improve the team while keeping wage structure. It’s never to buy players that we can sell for a profit.

Were going round in circles here mate. I could be wrong, you could be right, or vice versa. It’s what the club do that’s important, and as long as they come up with a plan that improves us..... we’re all happy

[Shukes]

Your post above.... exactly. The answers in your own comments.

Be smart and buy players that will improve the team.

[markjazzbassist]

I laugh at this “sell to buy” mentality.  Even the biggest clubs In world sell to buy.  Barca are having a massive sale this summer to fund purchases.  Real Madrid and Bayern and Barca and psg regularly sell looking to make a profit (Ronaldo to juve)

this whole concept of the club that just throws away money regardless of who they buy applies to 2 clubs man city and PSG and we aren’t them and will never be with our current ownership. 
 

so stop acting like sell to buy is a four letter word.  It’s not. 

[Palfy]

29 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

I laugh at this “sell to buy” mentality.  Even the biggest clubs In world sell to buy.  Barca are having a massive sale this summer to fund purchases.  Real Madrid and Bayern and Barca and psg regularly sell looking to make a profit (Ronaldo to juve)

this whole concept of the club that just throws away money regardless of who they buy applies to 2 clubs man city and PSG and we aren’t them and will never be with our current ownership. 
 

so stop acting like sell to buy is a four letter word.  It’s not. 

Sell is a four letter word

[Palfy]

If the rumours are true and Ancelotti wants Immobile then we have to trust that he knows what he’s doing, we cannot be calling him the best manager we’ve had for years, then slag off the players he wants to sign before they get here 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

I laugh at this “sell to buy” mentality.  Even the biggest clubs In world sell to buy.  Barca are having a massive sale this summer to fund purchases.  Real Madrid and Bayern and Barca and psg regularly sell looking to make a profit (Ronaldo to juve)

this whole concept of the club that just throws away money regardless of who they buy applies to 2 clubs man city and PSG and we aren’t them and will never be with our current ownership. 
 

so stop acting like sell to buy is a four letter word.  It’s not. 

I think you’re missing Shukes point. 
 

All the teams you mentioned don’t just buy players to sell them. They buy players to win. They then try to replace those players with better players, and then sell them. It’s very different to how clubs like Everton have in the past. Buying rising stars and selling them as they approach peak value. Shukes wants us to buy players to win. Just like the big clubs do. If you manage to make good money back on your players then it’s a bonus, not a business plan. The business plan needs to involve putting trophies in the cabinet rather than putting cash in the bank. 
 

You also mentioned sell to buy a few times. That wasn’t the discussion. It was buy to sell. Two different concepts. 

[Shukes]

8 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

I laugh at this “sell to buy” mentality.  Even the biggest clubs In world sell to buy.  Barca are having a massive sale this summer to fund purchases.  Real Madrid and Bayern and Barca and psg regularly sell looking to make a profit (Ronaldo to juve)

this whole concept of the club that just throws away money regardless of who they buy applies to 2 clubs man city and PSG and we aren’t them and will never be with our current ownership. 
 

so stop acting like sell to buy is a four letter word.  It’s not. 

Clubs do it yes, but do you really think it’s their business plan? 

[Makis]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

If the rumours are true and Ancelotti wants Immobile then we have to trust that he knows what he’s doing, we cannot be calling him the best manager we’ve had for years, then slag off the players he wants to sign before they get here 

I just don't believe this rumour until he's holding the scarf above his head. Makes no sense. Bombed in Germany. 3 goals in 24 matches before being loaned to Sevilla where he managed 2 goals in 8 matches. Sevilla had to buy him as per the loan deal but they loaned him next season back to Italy.

Selling assets is hardly a unique concept. The idea is to sell when the value of the asset is high with the plan of using the money to buy better assets (in normal business terms better would mean more profitable). If you buy someone at age 24 for 30 million and sell him for 60 million three years later you can buy two 30 million players. For most clubs this would mean a better team than holding on to that 60 million player.

For instance that other lot sold Coutinho to Barca and practically bought Allison and VVD with that money. Would they have been better off sticking with Coutinho instead?

[Hafnia]

Got to look at this as two seperate entities

1. Buying proven players (albeit in other leagues) where age and price don't make sense

2. Are they good enough

Number 1.... we need to stop with this nonsense that we are able to build a team capable of challenging from young potential.   It's doable yes - but unlikely.  The likes of Liverpool and city make these buys to supplement their team for future proofing it.

2.  We will always have different views on quality.  But for now age and profitability shouldn't be a factor.  We need experience, character and quality. 

This bloke doesn't fill me with optimism but I'm not poo pooing it based on age and cost. I'd sign David Silva if he could improve us. 

 

 

[Shukes]

25 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Got to look at this as two seperate entities

1. Buying proven players (albeit in other leagues) where age and price don't make sense

2. Are they good enough

Number 1.... we need to stop with this nonsense that we are able to build a team capable of challenging from young potential.   It's doable yes - but unlikely.  The likes of Liverpool and city make these buys to supplement their team for future proofing it.

2.  We will always have different views on quality.  But for now age and profitability shouldn't be a factor.  We need experience, character and quality. 

This bloke doesn't fill me with optimism but I'm not poo pooing it based on age and cost. I'd sign David Silva if he could improve us. 

 

 

This. We need to improve the team. Improving the team, will improve finances.

If Graeme Sharp played next season and scored 20 goals and we finished top four and won a cup, I wouldn’t care how old he was. 

[Bailey]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

Sell is a four letter word

So is twat

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

If the rumours are true and Ancelotti wants Immobile then we have to trust that he knows what he’s doing, we cannot be calling him the best manager we’ve had for years, then slag off the players he wants to sign before they get here 

Course we can, thats all part of the fun! 

[Shukes]

Reality is, we are being connected to so many transfers again.... that 90% haven’t even came from the club. Like usual we will be linked to a load of players, only to sign completely different players.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

So is twat

Course we can, thats all part of the fun! 

Your a wanker is well

[Makis]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

This. We need to improve the team. Improving the team, will improve finances.

If Graeme Sharp played next season and scored 20 goals and we finished top four and won a cup, I wouldn’t care how old he was. 

You seriously think Immobile will make us a top four side? If not then your whole example is just a red herring. Can't think of many examples where one signing had such  a huge impact for a team. And almost always on hindsight the squad was much better than what it looked like (e.g. Cantona to ManU).

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, Makis said:

You seriously think Immobile will make us a top four side? If not then your whole example is just a red herring. Can't think of many examples where one signing had such  a huge impact for a team. And almost always on hindsight the squad was much better than what it looked like (e.g. Cantona to ManU).

One player isn't going to make us a too 4 side....  Lionel Messi couldn't.

What we need is an introduction of 5 or more first team players who have character, talent and drive to get us there. 

I'm not saying he is or isn't good enough but many comments ate shutting him down for other reasons than ability. 

[Makis]

So, 150 million on players with no resale value? 

[Matt]

1 minute ago, Makis said:

So, 150 million on players with no resale value? 

If it gets top 4, then yes. But it’s one hell of a gamble 

also, £150m might get 3 players of the quality we need, maybe 4. 

[Makis]

How do the finances work? We'd need to win the CL about three times in a row to justify the fees.

[Hafnia]

22 minutes ago, Makis said:

How do the finances work? We'd need to win the CL about three times in a row to justify the fees.

The finances in the old regime would work by us selling best players and getting rejects And loans in part ex.

Nowadays we get sponsorship from our true owner... I'm assuming that will keep happening to provide us with the means to buy better. 

[markjazzbassist]

yeah the lack of finance knowledge on here shows how as fans we are lost when it comes to these things.  Carlo has mentioned it's a 5 year plan and project.  I would assume it's because he knows there's a ton of deadwood that needs removed and it can't all happen immediately, also he need time to build and mold the team, which takes time.  he realizes we can't do a walsh and try and buy a first team in 1 window.  

 

as for as buy to sell we are already up against FFP and won't get the ruling Man City got (we are honest and would give them the info they need and be indicted), so we do need to buy to sell because during turnover where we are fighting for Europa and CL but not making it yet (this year, possible next year) we will lose top players (Digne, Richarlison, etc), it's just how it goes.  until we reach CL a couple years in a row players will leave, that's just reality.  so yes we must always have an upside unless they are role players on the cheap (like thiago silva for a year or 2 or something).

[Bailey]

I think the reality is that there needs to be a blend of different types of players but as long as that player either has an immediate impact or an impact in the year or years to come then it doesnt matter although we need more of the former at this particular moment in time.

I'd worry about buying players at the end of their career on the basis that if they are coming to us, then they probably aren't at the level we need (anymore). If they were still at it they would go for either the money, trophies or for the chance of playing some sort of European football. 

 

 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Makis said:

How do the finances work? We'd need to win the CL about three times in a row to justify the fees.

Not really. You’d need enough prize money to cover the annual payment, dependent on the deal 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah the lack of finance knowledge on here shows how as fans we are lost when it comes to these things.  Carlo has mentioned it's a 5 year plan and project.  I would assume it's because he knows there's a ton of deadwood that needs removed and it can't all happen immediately, also he need time to build and mold the team, which takes time.  he realizes we can't do a walsh and try and buy a first team in 1 window.  

 

as for as buy to sell we are already up against FFP and won't get the ruling Man City got (we are honest and would give them the info they need and be indicted), so we do need to buy to sell because during turnover where we are fighting for Europa and CL but not making it yet (this year, possible next year) we will lose top players (Digne, Richarlison, etc), it's just how it goes.  until we reach CL a couple years in a row players will leave, that's just reality.  so yes we must always have an upside unless they are role players on the cheap (like thiago silva for a year or 2 or something).

Made me laugh reading the first sentence then the doom and gloom second paragraph 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah the lack of finance knowledge on here shows how as fans we are lost when it comes to these things.  Carlo has mentioned it's a 5 year plan and project.  I would assume it's because he knows there's a ton of deadwood that needs removed and it can't all happen immediately, also he need time to build and mold the team, which takes time.  he realizes we can't do a walsh and try and buy a first team in 1 window.  

 

as for as buy to sell we are already up against FFP and won't get the ruling Man City got (we are honest and would give them the info they need and be indicted), so we do need to buy to sell because during turnover where we are fighting for Europa and CL but not making it yet (this year, possible next year) we will lose top players (Digne, Richarlison, etc), it's just how it goes.  until we reach CL a couple years in a row players will leave, that's just reality.  so yes we must always have an upside unless they are role players on the cheap (like thiago silva for a year or 2 or something).

We are owned by a Russian and an Iranian, we will be far from honest if it doesn’t suit, they’ve been round the block a few times and not just the eastern block, trust me they know how to make a wrong look like a right.  

[Makis]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Not really. You’d need enough prize money to cover the annual payment, dependent on the deal 

That doesn't really change anything. Annual payments will end up totaling 150 million no matter how you slice it. Contracts would be around 4 years, 5 max.

[Makis]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

The finances in the old regime would work by us selling best players and getting rejects And loans in part ex.

Nowadays we get sponsorship from our true owner... I'm assuming that will keep happening to provide us with the means to buy better. 

Usmanov's money is nowhere near enough and even if he bought the club outright he couldn't pump insane amounts of money into it.