Summer Transfer Window

[Newty82]

Go on then?

 

If we're talking about CL football then personally I don't think McCarthy or Distin are at that level.

This is going to be one of those conversations where you shift the goal posts isn't? We see it too often with you, you predictably twist n turn.

 

Nobody can take your Mccarthy comment seriously as in another thread a couple of months ago you were pretty much arguing that Gibson is better. Only to then admit in another thread that you didn't fully understand and/or appreciate Mccarthy role.

 

Most of us are talking about players who will improve the squad. If we are aiming for only champions league players...well we won't get any because they are already at the highest level. We need to spot players lower down who can help make the squad stronger. This in turn may help us get into the champs league. It aint about the individual with the most recognised name. It's about the team. The strength in depth. We pretty much all agree that were we faltered this season was in depth, not so much individual talent.

 

So the question of players getting signed from relegation threatened teams and being a success higher up, surely must also apply to lower league players or players from 'lesser' leagues? And how far back do we go? Because there will be more than 10!

 

It's a daft argument to say don't sign anyone from down there because they won't be good enough.

[MC11]

It's not daft we should be aiming higher than Colback and Diame. Are they better the current players in our squad?

 

We should be adding first team players and letting lesser players such as Osman become good squad players.

 

Players down there very rarely become top players. I actually can't think of any that have become CL players.

 

As for McCarthy I don't rate him as highly as others. That's my take on him. I don't think he'd get anywhere near a top side.

Edited May 9, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Newty82]

You can't think of any? Look at Man Utd before this season...Rooney (yes, season before he was sold we just escaped relegation!), Valencia, Ferdinand, Jones, Smalling, Carroll. That's just off my head now. There will be more.

 

This isn't just about Collback and diame (there's one of your little twists)...its about you saying basically that you can't sign players from lower down because they won't improve you! That's daft.

 

John stones anyone? Look at that team that finished 4th for us back in 04/05...how many were established champions league players and how many were plucked from 'down below'?

[MC11]

You can't think of any? Look at Man Utd before this season...Rooney (yes, season before he was sold we just escaped relegation!), Valencia, Ferdinand, Jones, Smalling, Carroll. That's just off my head now. There will be more.

This isn't just about Collback and diame (there's one of your little twists)...its about you saying basically that you can't sign players from lower down because they won't improve you! That's daft.

John stones anyone? Look at that team that finished 4th for us back in 04/05...how many were established champions league players and how many were plucked from 'down below'?

Bold....... Looooooool all shite. Ferdinand wasn't in a relegation battle fella.

 

Secondly yes it was about Diame and Colback read the first post of mine you quoted.

 

Thirdly and finally. Players plucked from the lower divisions had never played in the premier league those who I''m mentioning are tried and tested Premier League players and turned out fodder. Therefore lower league players "plucked" are irrelevant.

Edited May 9, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[Newty82]

(Just looked at that Everton squad...how the feck did they finish 4th?!!!)

[Newty82]

Bold....... Looooooool all shite. Ferdinand wasn't in a relegation battle fella.

 

Secondly yes it was about Diame and Colback read the first post of mine you quoted.

Predictable response. Same old same. Twist n turn.

 

All shite but won leagues and cups for United and played in CL football year after year.

 

I'll happily take the Ferdinand one though, forgot he played for Leeds before United.

[Newty82]

....worse thing about having a crack with you is that you always edit your posts!!! By the time a response is put together...you've changed the angles again!!! Waste of time. Pointless.

[MC11]

Predictable response. Same old same. Twist n turn.

All shite but won leagues and cups for United and played in CL football year after year.

I'll happily take the Ferdinand one though, forgot he played for Leeds before United.

2 of the united players you mention are by majority not wanted in the England squad. Carroll is a £35m flop. Ferdinand shouldn't even be listed next to those players and yes I'll concede Valencia is a decent player. But will he be a regular at United a long with Smalling and Jones in the coming years, doubt it. I reckon they could all be flogged.

 

Another issue here. All those players were the best at their clubs are Colback and Diame?

[MC11]

....worse thing about having a crack with you is that you always edit your posts!!! By the time a response is put together...you've changed the angles again!!! Waste of time. Pointless.

Lol, I think late on why your arguments floored at times

[markjazzbassist]

Here's what we have so far

 

Gk Howard, Robles, new Czech kid (jindrich?)

Rb Coleman, hibbert (retiring?), browning

Cb Jags, Distin, stones, Alcaraz, Pennington

Lb Baines, Oviedo, garbutt

CM McCarthy, gibson, ledson

Am Barkley, osman

Wingers Pienaar, Mirallas, Mcgeady

Striker Kone, Naismith, Mcaleny

 

We could use another 2 cm (hopefully 1 is Barry), another 2 strikers, another winger, another rb, and another attacking mid. So we get Barry, Gerry on loan again, traore on loan again, and then we would just need rb, cm, am, and striker. No bad, a lot of depth and plenty of youngsters.

 

I say spend big on the striker and centre mid, get youngish players about to hit their peak so well have them for a while. Rb, and am could be squad players on the cheap or free, Coleman and browning are the future, Barkley will start more and osman is still decent, wed really just need some bodies there.

Edited May 10, 2014 by markjazzbassist

[Hafnia]

Miguel, you made a statement, it was wrong, stop digging.

 

Tevez and mascherano were at relegation last day escapists West Ham.... Joe Cole was relegated with west ham and went on to win medals with Chelsea....

 

Kevin Prince boeteng??? Relegated, but good enough to win serie a, and be a german international.

 

If your argument is sound then conversely you would have to say that at some stage only really ambitious would be looking to sign Luke Chadwick, Jeremy alliadiarre, Pascal cygan??? All league medal winners.

 

We did actually sign a young league winner once, Stephen Hughes.... Won the league playing near half the games in a season fir arsenal. Was absolutely shite. We signed Phil Neville, who won nearly everything, not calling him shite but let's just say average and put the words "honest pro" for those who still kiss his arse.

 

The common denominator is that in every wining or relegated side there are contributors and there are passengers... There are more contributors in a winning side, but to label all relegation battlers as not good enough is nonsense.

 

If you heard Martinez rejected RVP, Rooney, bony, lallana etc etc because they played for teams that finished lower than us then would you be happy? If your logic was right then we should reject such players.

[MC11]

Miguel, you made a statement, it was wrong, stop digging.Tevez and mascherano were at relegation last day escapists West Ham.... Joe Cole was relegated with west ham and went on to win medals with Chelsea....Kevin Prince boeteng??? Relegated, but good enough to win serie a, and be a german international.If your argument is sound then conversely you would have to say that at some stage only really ambitious would be looking to sign Luke Chadwick, Jeremy alliadiarre, Pascal cygan??? All league medal winners.We did actually sign a young league winner once, Stephen Hughes.... Won the league playing near half the games in a season fir arsenal. Was absolutely shite. We signed Phil Neville, who won nearly everything, not calling him shite but let's just say average and put the words "honest pro" for those who still kiss his arse.The common denominator is that in every wining or relegated side there are contributors and there are passengers... There are more contributors in a winning side, but to label all relegation battlers as not good enough is nonsense.If you heard Martinez rejected RVP, Rooney, bony, lallana etc etc because they played for teams that finished lower than us then would you be happy? If your logic was right then we should reject such players.

I was drawn into that statement. My original post quoted was regarding two players who I don't think will improve us and are yet to be successful in the premier league.90% of players who hover delegation tend to stay at that level.

 

We should be looking to sign first team players that are as good as (if not better than) our first eleven, that is how we are going to move forward. Bringing in squad players that aren't as good as the current squad won't improve us.

 

Lets aim higher. We where once linked with Moutinho, Riquelme and Banega. Yes they didn't happen but to slowly drop our standards with the likes of Colback is just disheartening. I want to take a step to the next level and that type of player won't take us there.

 

No matter how people look at it we were short again. We finished outside the top four. If we want to break into it we need quantity and additional quality.

 

Also your statement about Boateng isn't true. He's not a German international.

Edited May 10, 2014 by MiguelCotto

[c1982]

Yes they're down there for a reason. If you can name 10 players who turned out top players from relegation threatened teams I'll happily concede.

Benteke - Villa

Mascharano - West Ham

Tevez - West Ham

Defoe - West Ham

Parker - West Ham/Charlton

Rooney - Everton

Collocini - Newcastle

Milner - Newcastle/Leeds

Martyn - Leeds

Viduka - Leeds

Kewell - Leeds

 

The surface has barely been scratched!

[Brett Angel]

Ravaneli, Emerson, juninhio, kinkladsi.....the list is endless.

[MC11]

Lol, ok some decent players in there.

 

Certainly all better than Diame and Colback at the respective clubs though.

 

Point is that's aiming low.

[markiediow]

The players that have made it from lower league or relegation threatened teams were bought alongside some top players, the top players bought at the same time made these teams win things. Also, most on your list are top players having their 1st season to settle at a smaller team and then moving up to a top team, not players who have been in premiership for years at a lower club and not being able to make the move up. You can't compare Tevez 1st season at West Ham to Colbacks 4 seasons in premier league. It is not the same.

 

The price of these players were top money in most cases so it is like Lallana, Bony & Shaw prices now from a smaller team (£20m+), not the £3m rated players we are taking about, I doubt you can do a 11 man team out of this sort of player! You are not giving examples of the type of players we are comparing.

 

If we bought a few of these squad fillers along with some top players, then ok. If we buy this crap being mentioned then we would have a 5th place team and a 10th place team, this would not equal a 4th place squad.

 

We need to be buying top 4 players to make top 4 and improve our team, its simple and the option touted are not the top players.

 

I would be going for players who are available for our sort of money, M'Vila, Song, Lacezzette, Richards. These are top players, Diame, Colback, Mulumbu, MVia etc are not.

 

We should be more ambitious.

Edited May 10, 2014 by markiediow

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-roberto-martinez-keen-7100208?

[Hafnia]

Lol, ok some decent players in there.

 

Certainly all better than Diame and Colback at the respective clubs though.

 

Point is that's aiming low.

They will cost a lot less than they are worth, we need numbers, they will be solid squad players.

 

Think of them as a smart designer t shirt you want to wear to the pub instead of your £100 shirt that you wear for big nights out.

[MC11]

If we want to float in the Europa places, yeh let's look at the likes of Colback. I personally would rather we kick on and get quality over quantity. Even if that means loaning rather than purchasing.

 

Colback is not good enough. Neither is Diame.

[Matt]

They will cost a lot less than they are worth, we need numbers, they will be solid squad players.

 

Think of them as a smart designer t shirt you want to wear to the pub instead of your £100 shirt that you wear for big nights out.

I do love your analogies

[Hafnia]

If we want to float in the Europa places, yeh let's look at the likes of Colback. I personally would rather we kick on and get quality over quantity. Even if that means loaning rather than purchasing.

 

Colback is not good enough. Neither is Diame.

I'm sure John oshea, Wes Brown, Kieran Richardson were thought of the same at United where they won medals.

 

You can't keep 20 first team players happy. That's why we need a squad.

 

McCarthy, Barkley and Barry will be first on the sheet, colback or diame provide "cheap" cover and will no doubt play in lower key euro games.

[Brett Angel]

i agree with both. some big names have taken teams down and if you look hard enough you can get them. the only problem is there arnt any this year thats good enough.

[Kant]

I would like if RM tries to get a young player that is already at the required level but has potential to become the next big thing. But let's not forget that Everton already has that: John Stones, Ross Barkley. If he manages to sign Lukaku that'd be a huge accomplishment, the lad is 20 and already produces a lot! Their market value and the future of the club will depend on how they progress.

 

There are also good Premier League players that are quite young and can evolve to the next level: Mirallas, McCarthy, Coleman.

 

Others that are good, capped, experienced and will maintain the level required: Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Barry if signed.

 

And then the squad players: McGeady, Naismith, Gibson, etc.

 

The way RM talks I understand he wants to add to the second and third group, and if something affordable comes in his way, he'll add to the first group. What I see here is a team that is almost in position to end fourth if one of the young players breaks out and raises his game, or if a squad player performs above his level. Barkley and Stones performing week in week out good displays should help too.

 

(For the record, I consider McCarthy one of the bests young DM in Europe, he has still four years to reach his peak and he is starting sometimes to dominate games. He would fit in most big teams in the Makelele-Mascherano role, he's quite good at that (and some teams have dudes at that position like: Obi Mikel, Fellaini, past-it Arteta, Bentaleb, Illarramendi, etc.) and once he offers more offensively, he'll be a beast.)

[Hafnia]

The Liverpool f.c media have had a Jordan Henderson love in this year, and whilst he's gone some way to proving he's a valuable player with talented team mates he's not on the same level as McCarthy.

 

In a way I'm happy, I'd just be more pissed off with "Mourinho sees McCarthy as his new makalele in a £20m swoop" headlines.

 

Ah there that's better

Edited May 10, 2014 by Hafnia

[MikeO]

The Liverpool f.c media have had a Jordan Henderson love in this year, and whilst he's gone some way to proving he's a valuable player with talented team mates he's not on the same level as McCarthy.

 

In a way I'm happy, I'd just be more posses off with Mourinho sees McCarthy as his new makalele in a £20m swoop.

 

:dont know:

[marcopaulo]

pissed off that chelsea would want him

[Dalziel Kane]

Believe he was stating that (Hafnia) would take umbrage with the Chelsea manager if he (Mourinho) saw McCarthy as a suitable replacement in the template of one of their former established players. (and we receive an unsatisfactory price amount as a result of it)

[Mirallas]

Yes they're down there for a reason. If you can name 10 players who turned out top players from relegation threatened teams I'll happily concede.

 

 

That's a fun game Let me try to add some names to those c1982 wrote

 

1. Victor Moses - Wigan Athletic
2. Frank Lampard - West Ham
3. Joe Cole - West Ham
4. Micheal Carrick - West Ham
5. Rio Ferdinand - West Ham/Leeds
6. Sam Allardyce - Sunderland
7. Vincent Kompany - Manchester City
8. Shaun Wright-Phillips - Manchester City
9. Daniel Sturridge - Manchester City
10. Brad Friedel - Blackburn Rovers

[Newty82]

Cotto....I haven't read all the following posts from the other day. Or give it much thought.

 

But just to say the Carroll I was on about was the GK, Roy, as said 'all United players'.

[Newty82]

Anyway...its good and understandable that some of you are going along the lines of 'aim higher'. Fair play, that's the dream.

 

There is one quite big problem...We can't afford it!!! Like it or not, that's the REALITY. I've said it before, it's much easier following this club if you follow the REALITY, and accept it.

 

So if there are players 'down there' that our manager, a manager with a better football and life philosophy than most of us on here (yes, definitely including me!!!) believes can add something to our squad, even if it takes a bit of extra coaching, then I trust him, regardless of the name. Will he get it right each time? No chance. No one ever does. It's a gamble.

 

But I'm not of the 'snobby' attitude (not a great word to use) that all of those players 'down there' are not good enough for us just because their team as a whole struggled. There's always some gems to get. Hence why we have a scouting network.