Paddock Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I thought you stopped reading at the second paragraph? So how do you know what he's saying? :dont know: Ifyou read his posts again I think he gave in and went back and read it after Mike told him to just to prove his point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Ifyou read his posts again I think he gave in and went back and read it after Mike told him to just to prove his point. Fair enough then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Moyes created the plucky little Everton soundbites. "punching above our weight!" "penknives to gunfights" - say no more. Lets give Martinez the chance to sort this out, he's been good for longer than he's performed bad. If at the end of the season we are playing awul and finish 15th or lower then its farewell. Till then, lets not start bringing David Moyes into the equation, the man was dour. He was he right man for a few years. To say he would have spent £35m better is nonsense, when he did have big money he blew it. His best signings were sub £5m. He couldn't handle big players, he loved a kilbane or a cahill. Ross Barkley would be working at Mcdonalds if he was left to Moyes. duncanmckenzieismagic and Sibdane 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) I'd give Martinez another 12 months to sort this mess out. The Europa League is his only saving grace for me. But whilst it's looks pretty on paper the results in the tournament haven't been the true reflection of performances. Certainly the Wolfsburg results. We haven't looked like proper team all season. There is no sharpness in our play in the final third. We're simply a one trick pony and have no idea how to mix it up against teams who nullify us - that's seems to be easy at the moment. If we are in the same situation this time next year, without Europa League football we need to get rid of him. I was very pleased last season because at times we were unstoppable. We where two points of the top of the league this time last year. How things change. Edited December 23, 2014 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Moyes created the plucky little Everton soundbites. "punching above our weight!" "penknives to gunfights" - say no more. Lets give Martinez the chance to sort this out, he's been good for longer than he's performed bad. If at the end of the season we are playing awul and finish 15th or lower then its farewell. Till then, lets not start bringing David Moyes into the equation, the man was dour. He was he right man for a few years. To say he would have spent £35m better is nonsense, when he did have big money he blew it. His best signings were sub £5m. He couldn't handle big players, he loved a kilbane or a cahill. Ross Barkley would be working at Mcdonalds if he was left to Moyes. I don't think you could spend £28m so badly knowing you lacked creativity. Moyes always had a maestro in midfield he inherited Gravesen, brought in Arteta.... Where is Martinez midfield maestro? He didn't have one at Wigan. This tells me he doesn't like creative thinkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Moyes took us from 7th to 17th in his second full season... there could be second season blues but i'll be honest its got to change now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I don't think you could spend £28m so badly knowing you lacked creativity. Moyes always had a maestro in midfield he inherited Gravesen, brought in Arteta.... Where is Martinez midfield maestro? He didn't have one at Wigan. This tells me he doesn't like creative thinkers. Barkley is Martinez's gem. Shaun Maloney was the creator at Wigan, Martinez does value such players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Moyes took us from 7th to 17th in his second full season... there could be second season blues but i'll be honest its got to change now Said this in the summer, it was coming. I'm not quite so eager to say hes out if we are lower / mid table hes gone at the end of the year but that could all change if he continues with this blind optimism/ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Mike walkers weakness - he was never any good in the first place Walter Smiths weakness - arrogant and should have been dismissed for sheer neglect of role, Disgrace of a manager Moyes weakness - arrogant and refused to evolve. A good bloke but could have been much more Martinez weakness - talks too much and shows a reluctance to accept faults - if he does he can be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Mike walkers weakness - he was never any good in the first place Walter Smiths weakness - arrogant and should have been dismissed for sheer neglect of role, Disgrace of a manager Moyes weakness - arrogant and refused to evolve. A good bloke but could have been much more Martinez weakness - talks too much and shows a reluctance to accept faults - if he does he can be great can apply Moyes weakness to Martinez too at the moment. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Barkley is Martinez's gem. Shaun Maloney was the creator at Wigan, Martinez does value such players This is where you talk shit. Ross Barkley is far from a maestro, Maloney again far from a maestro. I'm talking about players who sit in the middle of the park and dictate games. He has no such player here and that's why we aren't creating anywhere near enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is where you talk shit. Ross Barkley is far from a maestro, Maloney again far from a maestro. I'm talking about players who sit in the middle of the park and dictate games. He has no such player here and that's why we aren't creating anywhere near enough. Says the most self contradictory poster on here. Maybe you need to have your own glossary of "cliches" just so people can understand as and when you need to change definitions in order to validate previous posts. So we now have creative player equals "midfield maestro", earlier on you stated your dislike for such cliches- ok we will add that one to "fully fit" is above "match fit" and whatever else you have done to move goalposts. Just so you know - Maloney for Wigan and their resources was that "maestro" the tempo setter, the exploiter of space who would do that role, for Wigan he was a key player. What exactly did you see in Gravesen to make him a maestro??? For me he couldn't tackle - he was abysmal at it. Lee Carsley was the man there. His passing was good on his day and yes he would often go off on many a blind alley run towards the corner flag losing all discipline. Then again, I don't really understand why i'm responding because you will go off and redefine midfield maestro as something everyone should have known all along which in reality you are just making things up as you go along.... so Gravesen was a midfield Maestro and Barkley isn't..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Says the most self contradictory poster on here. Maybe you need to have your own glossary of "cliches" just so people can understand as and when you need to change definitions in order to validate previous posts. So we now have creative player equals "midfield maestro", earlier on you stated your dislike for such cliches- ok we will add that one to "fully fit" is above "match fit" and whatever else you have done to move goalposts. Just so you know - Maloney for Wigan and their resources was that "maestro" the tempo setter, the exploiter of space who would do that role, for Wigan he was a key player. What exactly did you see in Gravesen to make him a maestro??? For me he couldn't tackle - he was abysmal at it. Lee Carsley was the man there. His passing was good on his day and yes he would often go off on many a blind alley run towards the corner flag losing all discipline. Then again, I don't really understand why i'm responding because you will go off and redefine midfield maestro as something everyone should have known all along which in reality you are just making things up as you go along.... so Gravesen was a midfield Maestro and Barkley isn't..... Gravesen sat in the middle of the park and dictated everything we did when we had possession, he was the engine room. The same with Arteta. That is the type of player I'm talking about here - not a fucking tackler. When has a tackler ever been described as a maestro? Martinez has no player in this side that does it and you are trying to compare Shaun Maloney to those two.... That's how wide off you are of we're I'm coming from. Barkley could one day become a similar player to Arteta and Gravesen but right now he's not. The main reason being Martinez isn't playing him deep enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Here I've defined it for you... It means nothing else! "Midfield maestro" is a term used in association football to describe a midfield player who excels in the technical and creative aspects of midfield play and who often create goalscoring opportunities for the attackers, while at the same time controlling the tempo of the match and raising the game of the other members of the team.[5] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Gravesen sat in the middle of the park and dictated everything we did when we had possession, he was the engine room. The same with Arteta. That is the type of player I'm talking about here - not a fucking tackler. When has a tackler ever been described as a maestro? Martinez has no player in this side that does it and you are trying to compare Shaun Maloney to those two.... That's how wide off you are of we're I'm coming from. Barkley could one day become a similar player to Arteta and Gravesen but right now he's not. The main reason being Martinez isn't playing him deep enough. Thomas Gravesen was the "Engine Room" who sat in the middle of the park - LOL Keep them coming. He was the most positionally ill disciplined player we had - he would run after the ball likie a 10 year old kid and commit stupid fouls. Did you forget his red card against Fulham in Moyes first game??? His best season was when he was running his contract down. He was a pantomime character who was a bit of a fraud, wave his hands up and down and have 12 year old kids cheering for him. Mean while his team mates would be having to cover for him as he ran a player into a corner flag and commit a foul. Engine room.... thats James McCarthy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Thomas Gravesen was the "Engine Room" who sat in the middle of the park - LOL Keep them coming. He was the most positionally ill disciplined player we had - he would run after the ball likie a 10 year old kid and commit stupid fouls. Did you forget his red card against Fulham in Moyes first game??? His best season was when he was running his contract down. He was a pantomime character who was a bit of a fraud, wave his hands up and down and have 12 year old kids cheering for him. Mean while his team mates would be having to cover for him as he ran a player into a corner flag and commit a foul. Engine room.... thats James McCarthy that. The player that went on to play for Real Madrid. And this is again proof that you can't see a real "footballer". Edited December 23, 2014 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Define "midfield maestro" Haf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Here I've defined it for you... It means nothing else! "Midfield maestro" is a term used in association football to describe a midfield player who excels in the technical and creative aspects of midfield play and who often create goalscoring opportunities for the attackers, while at the same time controlling the tempo of the match and raising the game of the other members of the team.[5] Brilliant! from the "wikipedia List of sporting cliches" - is that next to the oxford disctionary at WHSmiths? What was it you were saying about cliches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 The player that went on to play for Real Madrid. And this is again proof that you can't see a real "footballer". It appears that they couldn't see a real footballer (more to the point tell the difference between Carsley and Gravesen) - 17 appearances in 2 years with 1 goal. Its not like Real buy bad players ask Jonathan Woodgate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Brilliant! from the "wikipedia List of sporting cliches" - is that next to the oxford disctionary at WHSmiths? What was it you were saying about cliches? Describes it perfectly. I wonder how anyone could describe a "midfield maestro" in any other way. This cliche thing.... Again you're putting things out there that are untrue. If a cliche is bollock i.e "plucky little everton" I'll dislike it.... Nowhere have I said I don't use cliches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 It appears that they couldn't see a real footballer (more to the point tell the difference between Carsley and Gravesen) - 17 appearances in 2 years with 1 goal. Its not like Real buy bad players ask Jonathan Woodgate. The difference between Carsley and Gravesen is this.... One was at his best without the ball and the other was best dictating play with ball at his feet. I'm not going to let you drag me into a Carsley v Gravesen debate because I rated them both highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Describes it perfectly. I wonder how anyone could describe a "midfield maestro" in any other way. This cliche thing.... Again you're putting things out there that are untrue. If a cliche is bollock i.e "plucky little everton" I'll dislike it.... Nowhere have I said I don't use cliches This is brilliant - a pure case of you cornering your self with daft comments. You hated Plucky little Everton because it was "far too cliche" - now you actually use the wikipedia list of sporting cliches to support an "alliteration" - that's all it is an alliteration. Fergies Fledlings, Lisbon Lions, wing wizard, all very nice sounding.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 The difference between Carsley and Gravesen is this.... One was at his best without the ball and the other was best dictating play with ball at his feet. I'm not going to let you drag me into a Carsley v Gravesen debate because I rated them both highly. I'll leave it there for now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 This is brilliant - a pure case of you cornering your self with daft comments. You hated Plucky little Everton because it was "far too cliche" - now you actually use the wikipedia list of sporting cliches to support an "alliteration" - that's all it is an alliteration. Fergies Fledlings, Lisbon Lions, wing wizard, all very nice sounding.... I'm trying to describe the type of player we need. Nothing to do with cliches. Stop going off track with irrelevant stuff and stick to the conversation. Maloney (100% not) & Barkley (not at present) are not the type of player I'm trying to describe. If we're going further up the ladder.... A Paul Scholes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 If it was down to you we'd have a team of hardworking players with little technical ability and no vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 If it was down to you we'd have a team of hardworking players with little technical ability and no vision. seriously give it up. I'm gonna be 100% straight with you now. If you want to go round engaging debate start using your brain and stop trying to blag it. You get annoyed with the people who disagree with you and your flimsy comments - the reality is that you are getting annoyed at yourself. You keep creating definitions and question anyone who disagrees with them. Me and Matt can argue all day long but it is healthy intelligent debate, with you its like arguing with a 15 year old. No offense as I do like you as you are active and have plenty of opion etc but seriously some thimes you just need to think"yeah, got that one wrong" and leave it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 The player that went on to play for Real Madrid. And this is again proof that you can't see a real "footballer". Actually agree with Haf on this, Graveson was an animal but he was far from a maestro. Carsley was one of my favourite Everton players of all time but he wasn't a maestro either. Defining a midfielder in 1 phrase is not possible in my opinion, even if you go with "maestro" in the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 seriously give it up. I'm gonna be 100% straight with you now. If you want to go round engaging debate start using your brain and stop trying to blag it. You get annoyed with the people who disagree with you and your flimsy comments - the reality is that you are getting annoyed at yourself. You keep creating definitions and question anyone who disagrees with them. Me and Matt can argue all day long but it is healthy intelligent debate, with you its like arguing with a 15 year old. No offense as I do like you as you are active and have plenty of opion etc but seriously some thimes you just need to think"yeah, got that one wrong" and leave it there. Oh no it isnt :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Actually agree with Haf on this, Graveson was an animal but he was far from a maestro. Carsley was one of my favourite Everton players of all time but he wasn't a maestro either. Defining a midfielder in 1 phrase is not possible in my opinion, even if you go with "maestro" in the title. I saw a completely different player then. Because in his final season (especially) he was absolutely brilliant to watch and a much better footballer than he's given credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I saw a completely different player then. Because in his final season (especially) he was absolutely brilliant to watch and a much better footballer than he's given credit for. He was an excellent player, I didn't mean to say he wasn't. But a guy who dictated the game? Not for me. Tell you who will in time, and thats Besic. Barkley too if he drops back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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