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rubecula

What is wrong?

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I know there is a thread for Martinez and others for various things BUT why are we going downhill faster than a dog after a pork sausage?

 

Is it the manager?

Is it the players?

Is it being in Europe?

Is it the board?

Is Marco putting something in the pies?

 

Your opinions folks as I am seriously at a loss here.

 

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Our defending has been absolutely shocking since day one.

 

Martinez role as a manager has been questionable at best this season. There has been a lack of a plan b as we have talked about on numerous occasions

 

Injuries and Europa have had a big toll on us

 

And as MC said, morale is poor this year. In a hypothetical world where I am the captain of Everton FC, I would be fuming at the players and trying everything possible to light a fire under their asses. We are better than how we are playing at the moment.

 

I think this is the order I'd place on the "blame" scale.

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Is it European competition im wondering? Look at the teams outside the 'money' teams (both Manchester, arsenal, Chelsea,Liverpool and possibly spurs). Have any of them done well in the league the same time as they were in Europe. The swans were bad last season, and much improved this season without Europe, Newcastle were shit in the league when they were in Europe, you do need a big quality squad to do Europe and still compete in the league, we don't have that yet, we are still 5-6 players short of having a decent back up team.

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Also souness said something that I agree with, we used to get into people's faces under Moyes, now we stand off, at let teams run at us and get in our faces, we need to toughen up

Never thought I'd say it but I agreed with the majority of what souness said. Moyes intensity and work ethic made us the side we were.

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The players are pissed off with being played out of position, being made to play when they're quite clearly weeks away from being fit, being asked to play like they're Barcelona, are bored shitless with the mind numbingly boring football he has them playing and are seriously embarrased whith him constantly saying we were phenominal and there wasn't anything between the sides when we've just been twatted 3-0 and made a show of.

 

In short, he's lost the dressing room.

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Main 3 areas for me...

 

Balance - far too many players have been played out of position all season so we've not had the balance to play 4-2-3-1 which Roberto has persisted with. We've got too many 'Number 10s' and not enough wingers in the squad. Most of us commented that we needed another winger or Pienaar type wide man - I think Cleverly was that player Roberto had ear marked but that didn't happen for whatever reason and has left us short.

 

Centre backs - we've actually been very unfortunate with injuries in this area and haven't had a settled pairing BUT we can't keep playing out through players who aren't comfortable on the ball. Roberto either needs to invest in another ball playing centre back or stop playing out through them. Teams are wise to this and are pressing us - we've made 10 unforced errors which have led directly to goals, more than any other and more than we did in the whole of last season! Chelsea are the model to follow - Terry and Cahill defend properly and play long when they need to - you don't see Terry, Cahill and Courtious dicking about with the ball putting each other under pressure.

 

Bottle/Leadership - it's not obvious to me at the mo and I include Martinez in this. We're just far too nice. Eto'o summed this up perfectly today - we've got the ball in their box and he kicks it out and ends our attack - Tiote had only had a ball in the midrift - that was at 0-1.

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I echo your sentiment there Haf.

 

Since reading this topic I've been thinking but I can't put a finger on anything particular.

 

It's all just gone wrong. Simple as that. All over the pitch...injuries, individual errors, shit decisions, tactics, fitness, under performing 'stars',...you could go on.

 

It's a muddy puddle.

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- Honestly I don't know of a squad hit harder by injuries than us. We had the best and biggest squad ever before all that. But our key players have all gone injured and some keep getting injured.

 

- Aging players with some left in the tank have been found to be empty in the tank. Pienaar, Osman, Howard, distin, Barry, Eto'o, all have slowed down immensely to the point where next season for them might mean retirement. For the big 4 this wouldn't matter, for us it's half the squad.

 

- goalkeeping used to be decent. Howard was protected by solid defending that made him look better than he is. Now that he doesn't have that the true Howard has been revealed. Either that or he's old, peaked at the WC, and is past it. Robles doesn't offer any competiton to keep him on his toes and offers little when playing himself.

 

- Europe has strained is no doubt, but in years past where it was all resources and man power to premier league finish and fuck off the cups, we have a manager that cares deeply about doing well abroad and winning a trophy. Naturally with all the above issues there will be some let down elsewhere, which is the league form.

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Wish people would stop blaming Europe. He said we had the squad to cope and other teams are coping just fine. All this blaming snd cputching at Europa is bollocks. Soon as we play a decent team we'll go out then nobody will have anything to "cling" to. We will not win it get it out your heads

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Wish people would stop blaming Europe. He said we had the squad to cope and other teams are coping just fine. All this blaming snd cputching at Europa is bollocks. Soon as we play a decent team we'll go out then nobody will have anything to "cling" to. We will not win it get it out your heads

 

I'm not having the Europa being a major factor either; we were playing dog shit before we'd even played a game in Europe.

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The dressing room is quite clearly lost. There is no coming back from that and the board will have to address it sooner rather than later or face the inevitable exodus that will follow. If you think our play is scary now.....Imagine it without mirallas/coleman/stones in the squad.

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The lack of tempo to our game is incredibly frustrating. We have become laboured and predictable and easy to defend against. No-one seems to want to take a risk and instead goes for the easy option of keeping possession and slowing down the pace of our attacks. It is more difficult to understand what is going on at the other end of the pitch given no real changes in defensively focused personnel.

 

I think a big factor is the lack of leadership on the pitch. I know he's past his best but statistically Leon Osman has been our most influential player in the last four seasons. Prior to this season we won 54% of PL matches he started and won only 22% of matches when he didn't start. Even this season the difference is noticeable. Won 3, drawn 1, lost 1 when he's started. Won 2, drawn 5 and lost 7 without him. He gets slagged off a lot on here but he clearly adds something to the team when he's on the pitch. It was the same story with Phil Neville. They are players that add leadership.

 

Whilst I'm on stats and back to my first point about players not taking risks. Last season we won 7 out of 9 when Deulofeu started - he was statistically our most influential player.

 

I know stats don't tell the whole story but to my mind we need stronger leadership on the park and players encouraged to take risks in the final third. Our whole strategy seems to involve taking more risks in the defensive third!

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It started going wrong with the shambles of pre-season & has basically been on the slide ever since.

Our team spirit & togetherness has been our biggest strength for as long as I can remember & it's gone to shit.

Roberts needs to develop a mean streak & fast.

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The biggest thing that is going wrong for me is the lack of consistency of team selection and the insistence on playing players out of position. A team is made up of partnerships which get better with experience of playing together and knowledge of each others game as well as their own, yet players are being asked to play in unfamiliar positions surrounded by others who are out of position or who they are not used to playing with.

 

Use Leighton Baines as an example as he seems to have come in for some stick recently. How many different players have played in the left midfield role in front of him so far this season (Pienaar, Barkley, Mirallas, Osman, McGeady, Atsu, Eto-o, Lukaku, Naismith, McAlaney, Kone, Oviedo).

 

Use Ross Barkley as another example as he is another one getting stick at the moment. How many different positions has he played so far this season (defensive mid, attacking mid, left wing, right wing).

 

Compare this with the current league leaders Chelsea, who have played the same amount of games as us. I know we have been hit with injuries this season but it doesn't account for the difference in consistency.

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The dressing room is quite clearly lost. There is no coming back from that and the board will have to address it sooner rather than later or face the inevitable exodus that will follow. If you think our play is scary now.....Imagine it without mirallas/coleman/stones in the squad.

 

Can you explain what shows the dressing room is lost........don't bother to list bad results, poor tactics etc, they can be present even with a great dressing room.

Managers and players could be fine with each other, but just not getting it together on the pitch.

 

Losing and playing poorly to me doesn't indicate a dressing room lost.

 

Maybe I've missed something obvious, I'm almost afraid to ask......because I'll be extra sick if he has lost it.

 

Just hit me with it.......you say it's quite clear ?

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2889316/Everton-need-David-Moyes-basics-says-Graeme-Souness.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

 

"Speaking to reporters, he said: 'As a team we need to stick with our principles, the doubts that people try to bring in makes you a stronger team.

We showed last season what we could do, we haven't lost that talent, if anything we've increased it."


The above quote is exactly what has gone wrong

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Besic has only just started playing yet the writer seems to be blaming Besic for leaving holes and ultimately for the form of Coleman and Baines.

 

He also says Barry goes forward and McCarthy sits.... If anything McCarthy goes on the odd run not Barry. What a shite article.

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Tika-taka. RM needs to swerve the barca crap and find Mourinho's school of thought.

A mix of sticking with one gameplay and forcing favourites into the team out of position.

Out of form players.

Very little protection or decisions from the officials.

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What I hate is the constant passing the ball back. I know it is important at times but we do it far too often, almost as though we are scared of the opposition.

 

Joe Royal's "Dogs of War would be better for us right now when we really need three points and a few more wins on the bounce.

 

Honest opinion? As I posted the original question I think I should say my piece and then wait to be shot down.

 

Martinez is NOT good enough. We need a new manager. After all in his last job he took a team to relegation.

 

OK crucify me as a heretic. But it is my honest opinion.

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What I hate is the constant passing the ball back. I know it is important at times but we do it far too often, almost as though we are scared of the opposition.

 

Joe Royal's "Dogs of War would be better for us right now when we really need three points and a few more wins on the bounce.

 

Honest opinion? As I posted the original question I think I should say my piece and then wait to be shot down.

 

Martinez is NOT good enough. We need a new manager. After all in his last job he took a team to relegation.

 

OK crucify me as a heretic. But it is my honest opinion.

What worries me about that is none of the players look like they're up to rolling their sleeves up and having it with someone. Either that or they think they're too good to do that or maybe the manager doesn't allow them to do that. I honestly don't know what it is but if we free fall into that bottom 3 I'm seriously concerned that we don't have the type of players or the right manager to get us out again. We have good players, some really really good players but we also have the type of players who don't seem to have the stomach for a fight and I honestly don't think Martinez would change his philosophy to accomodate one. Best to go down playing true to what you believe rather than abandon that and safeguard your safwty.

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Paddock I don't think we'll go down this season. However one bad one can make things with in the squad really bad. The good players will want to leave.

 

I'm also concerned about Martinez ability to keep us a float should the shit really hit the fan.

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Paddock I don't think we'll go down this season. However one bad one can make things with in the squad really bad. The good players will want to leave.

 

I'm also concerned about Martinez ability to keep us a float should the shit really hit the fan.

Agreed. I think, unless we win the EL now, we've lost Mirallas.

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Paddock I don't think we'll go down this season. However one bad one can make things with in the squad really bad. The good players will want to leave.

 

I'm also concerned about Martinez ability to keep us a float should the shit really hit the fan.

We probably wont go down but we are by no means "too good" to go down. Good teams like us have gobne down before. We're not above it is alls I'm saying.

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We probably wont go down but we are by no means "too good" to go down. Good teams like us have gobne down before. We're not above it is alls I'm saying.

I would agree, but I think its more a case of there being about 5-6 other teams even worse than us that will be in the relegation scrap before us. I still think we will end up around 8th

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1. Martinez' tactics aren't working right now, probably due to a combination of players not fitting into the system he wants and the injuries that have popped up everywhere.

 

2. The central defense needs revamping. Jag's and Distin's peaks have passed by now for a couple of years and Stones still needs some time to grow. We need a young LCB who is about to enter his peak.

 

3. Stupid errors leading to stupid goals.

 

4. Lack of quality wingers -- I feel like Mirallas is the only one we have.

 

5. Some unfortunate refereeing decisions

 

6. The players look like the don't give a damn about the club and aren't putting their hearts into it. That's more disappointing to me than the rest of the above.

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1. Martinez' tactics aren't working right now, probably due to a combination of players not fitting into the system he wants and the injuries that have popped up everywhere.

 

2. The central defense needs revamping. Jag's and Distin's peaks have passed by now for a couple of years and Stones still needs some time to grow. We need a young LCB who is about to enter his peak.

 

3. Stupid errors leading to stupid goals.

 

4. Lack of quality wingers -- I feel like Mirallas is the only one we have.

 

5. Some unfortunate refereeing decisions

 

6. The players look like the don't give a damn about the club and aren't putting their hearts into it. That's more disappointing to me than the rest of the above.

Point 6 is more so for me.

 

Lukaku walking off having a bit of a chat like He's walking off the training ground pissed me off. As if it was a case of "nothing to do with me I've been benched".

 

Mcgeady titting about trying to show off.

 

Barkley losing the ball and not chasing it.

 

All very annoying.

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Lukaku walking off having a bit of a chat like He's walking off the training ground pissed me off. As if it was a case of "nothing to do with me I've been benched".

 

The other day, someone posted a link that shows just how much Lukaku does put into each game. Your statement implies he just ambles around, and that's simply not true. Remember: prior to this season, he rarely played for 90 minutes. Now, it's much more common.

 

Of the points listed, the most pertinent would be the number of individual errors that lead to goals. This is a far bigger problem for Everton than any other club. If I remember the numbers correctly, we've given up half as many goals again, for this reason, than any other team in the league. This matter alone goes a long way to explaining the difference between this season's points total and last season's. We don't lose a lot of games by more than one goal, so errors cost us a lot of points.

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The other day, someone posted a link that shows just how much Lukaku does put into each game. Your statement implies he just ambles around, and that's simply not true. Remember: prior to this season, he rarely played for 90 minutes. Now, it's much more common.

 

Of the points listed, the most pertinent would be the number of individual errors that lead to goals. This is a far bigger problem for Everton than any other club. If I remember the numbers correctly, we've given up half as many goals again, for this reason, than any other team in the league. This matter alone goes a long way to explaining the difference between this season's points total and last season's. We don't lose a lot of games by more than one goal, so errors cost us a lot of points.

Not that I was actually talking about his work rate I was talking about his "I don't give a shit we've just lost, I'll have a chat with tiote and look completely fine with the result"

 

The stat you bring up actually doesn't take in distance per minutes, if it did he is behind naismith considerably in terms of work rate. Happy to do that dance again but rest assured his work rate ain't great.

 

If you reduced his distance by the amount of half arsed jogs to close down a player rather than look at someone like nais who actually sprints and looks like he wants to win the thing you would see an even greater difference.

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Not that I was actually talking about his work rate I was talking about his "I don't give a shit we've just lost, I'll have a chat with tiote and look completely fine with the result"

 

The stat you bring up actually doesn't take in distance per minutes, if it did he is behind naismith considerably in terms of work rate. Happy to do that dance again but rest assured his work rate ain't great.

 

If you reduced his distance by the amount of half arsed jogs to close down a player rather than look at someone like nais who actually sprints and looks like he wants to win the thing you would see an even greater difference.

Totally agree haf, I'll choose my words wisely here but the stupid cunt was smiling and having a little chuckle with tiote hugging him as he went off. That's a bellend with no feeling for the club in my opinion. I know there only human and not all players have a genuine love for the club that there playing for but at least consider the poor Bastards who travelled there, who's weekends are wrecked after that result. Do it down the tunnel, that's what I say.

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5. Some unfortunate refereeing decisions.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/should-referees-apologise-everton-boss-8360973

 

I neither expect nor want (unless things get really desperate in April) a bunch of awful refereeing decisions favoring Everton, to balance things out. But I don't want our boys to be subjected to any more of what at times seem like obviously incorrect calls, of both omission and commission.

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