Matt Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 It’s funny that 2 of the highlights in the last couple of games, as few as they’ve been, have been Holgate and Davies. Really good to see they’re working hard to be recognised and being given the chance to show they can step up. markjazzbassist, Shukes and StevO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 11 hours ago, pete0 said: He's got goalside, just unlucky that Alli cut in just as he's getting into position. If he's not in that position Alli would had clear sight at goal. It's not unlucky. They are drilled all week as to what foot a player prefers. Holgate just over did it and then made himself as small as possible, presumably attempting to avoid dangling a leg and giving a pen away. He was solid enough and I certainly dont think he was any worse than Keane but these are the same naive errors he has made in previous seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 I think he would be dissapointed with his part in the goal but like bailey has said these players don’t know what to do for the best with VAR. Defenders used to make themselves big to get whatever they can on the ball. That’s not the case anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Matt said: It’s funny that 2 of the highlights in the last couple of games, as few as they’ve been, have been Holgate and Davies. Really good to see they’re working hard to be recognised and being given the chance to show they can step up. Think you credit the manager far too much. They've already shown they can do this under Koeman 2 years ago! It's took injuries for them to even get a sniff of football with Silva. How many points would they have saved us or contributed to last year. Keane cost us loads of goals as did Gana. Both also help with the tempo better than the other two as well. 4 hours ago, Bailey said: It's not unlucky. They are drilled all week as to what foot a player prefers. Holgate just over did it and then made himself as small as possible, presumably attempting to avoid dangling a leg and giving a pen away. He was solid enough and I certainly dont think he was any worse than Keane but these are the same naive errors he has made in previous seasons. Think you're being very harsh on him. He's cut across and done the best to cut him out, if anything Mina is too rash going for the ball but I'd put all the blame on Iwobi. To get into the position Alli runs into Holgate would have to slow his run and if he did that Alli would just be clear on goal and have no reason to cut in and the fans would murder Holgate for it. (goal at 56 seconds) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, pete0 said: Think you're being very harsh on him. He's cut across and done the best to cut him out, if anything Mina is too rash going for the ball but I'd put all the blame on Iwobi. To get into the position Alli runs into Holgate would have to slow his run and if he did that Alli would just be clear on goal and have no reason to cut in and the fans would murder Holgate for it. First and foremost I agree that Iwobi's mistake is huge and everything from there is reactionary which makes your decision making so much more important. I don't agree about Mina. He is isolated and if he doesn't step in and try and stop the ball he will be out of the game anyway, especially 1 v 1 against Son. It's risk v reward but I wouldn't critise that decision because he has two quicker players who have the run at him anyway running either side of him and the cover he does have in Holgate is there to sweep behind him. It's actually the exact reaction you would want from them both. They are working together, one to press and the other to sweep in behind. As I mentioned everything following the mistake is reactionary and Holgate doesn't very well to get back into a position to defend the goal. You can tell from Alli's first touch that he wants it on his right. From that point he is only ever cutting inside but all of the preparation before the game would have been about showing Alli to his left foot. Add in to the situation that Sidibe is also back. Im not sure what it is that cathes him out but I dont think he gets close enough after the first touch. I think you might be right in that he is expecting him to go down the line and therefore he is giving himself a better angle for that rather than the cutback. If he is half a yard closer to Alli then he gives himself a better chance of making the tackle. It looks to me as though he is defending against Son rather than Alli. He is expecting more pace and someone who is probably more likely to take it on his left. If he pushes Alli left he probably also pushes him into Sidibe. I just think it's naive defending from him in the end because I think he could have done something about it, especially when you consider the player he was up against. If that was Keane I doubt he would have got back but I do think he would have been more likely to make the challenge or at the very least slow Alli down because he is actually quite good at getting a toe on the ball in those situations. Then again Keane would have been skinned by Son a dozen times by then so don't think I am saying he would have been a better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 With hindsight purely looking at the phase following the pass, Mina should chase back and Holgate them go towards Son. Mina stepping up completely opened up the option on the left for Son and made the decision and pass easier. Looking at the defending in the next phase with Holgate on Alli I just don't see what more Holgate could have done. He's in two minds for a reason and was only a fraction away. The play was all in Alli's favour at that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 Not even bothering with that Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 Holgate will learn from it. To be honest - I don’t think Keane would have done any better in the situation or even got there in cover. Keep him in the team and let’s see if he keeps developing. Needs a big season London Blue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-defender-mason-holgate-training-17270266 Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-defender-mason-holgate-training-17270266 You could always see it but it’s good that he’s seen it too. He really could be a top CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 I’ll be honest I never thought he would make it with us, as he admitted himself he was lacking in the physicality side of the PL. Hats off to Walcott for taking him under his wing, how many after training go to the gym everyday off their own backs, Walcott is showing him good skill sets if you want along and successful career, and fair play to Holgate that recognising hard work pays off. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 i've always rated holgate, i remember reading articles after we bought him that said he could be better than stones. currently he is. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 I also thought he showed a lot of the reasons why he had struggled to maintain a first team spot. His decision making was poor at times and he was shrugged off the ball by Pukki at one point when he was last man. He seemed a bit rattled at times and when he is rattled he loses his concentration. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisk Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Bailey said: I also thought he showed a lot of the reasons why he had struggled to maintain a first team spot. His decision making was poor at times and he was shrugged off the ball by Pukki at one point when he was last man. He seemed a bit rattled at times and when he is rattled he loses his concentration. Just looked too young and nieve I thought today. Got bullied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 23, 2019 Report Share Posted November 23, 2019 Hardly the physique of a Premier league centre back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 Did he have a good game out of position, or did it look like he could be played there comfortably in the future? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Aidan said: Did he have a good game out of position, or did it look like he could be played there comfortably in the future? In the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Aidan said: Did he have a good game out of position, or did it look like he could be played there comfortably in the future? The former! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 58 minutes ago, Aidan said: Did he have a good game out of position, or did it look like he could be played there comfortably in the future? Had the first three shots of the game. Played well and solid. Dependable player, if not standing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Aidan said: Did he have a good game out of position, or did it look like he could be played there comfortably in the future? Definitely just something that should be done in an emergency like today. Let’s not go all John Stones on the lad and fuck him around. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 We shouldn't need to be thinking about turning him into a midfielder. But he proved today he is a very talented footballer the way he adapted, didn't look out of place at all. MikeO and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 Not sure what happened but fucking hell. He wanted the ball all the time, took shots on when it was on. He was a general today. Credit to dunc for allowing it chicagoblue and barryj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Finn balor said: Not sure what happened but fucking hell. He wanted the ball all the time, took shots on when it was on. He was a general today. Credit to dunc for allowing it Great move by DF to put him in the midfield. Had a very good game and surprised me with the composure he showed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 When you're desperately short of midfielders, you have to take risk. This one paid off, thank goodness. I'm not sure that it should happen again, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 The lad has arrogance/confidence/bottle..... it can look misplaced at times. But.... he can play football!!! He could be a DM, definitely has the composure. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StevO Posted December 16, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 He offered to play midfield, love that. The team needed someone and he put his hand up. Brilliant attitude. Romey 1878, Bailey, Matt and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 20 hours ago, nogs said: We shouldn't need to be thinking about turning him into a midfielder. But he proved today he is a very talented footballer the way he adapted, didn't look out of place at all. I completely agree with this. I still have an issue in that I don't know where I would want to play him because I don't think he is good enough at CB to play week in week out but it showed that he is smarter than he looks (and sometimes acts). I could see him becoming a bit of a Neville, covering 2 or 3 positions but not really being good enough to hold down a position in one. 34 minutes ago, StevO said: He offered to play midfield, love that. The team needed someone and he put his hand up. Brilliant attitude. Shows the character of the lad! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 i've always rated him and have been on record many times saying he would be better than stones. the funny thing is people wanted rid of him last year and the year before. another martinez signing that's comes good. we don't need the keane replacement, we already have it in Mason. Keane can be the bench guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: i've always rated him and have been on record many times saying he would be better than stones. the funny thing is people wanted rid of him last year and the year before. another martinez signing that's comes good. we don't need the keane replacement, we already have it in Mason. Keane can be the bench guy. He is nowhere near as good as Stones. Do you not think he just makes too many mistakes for a CB? I also think he is too weak as well. It makes up for some of that with his attitude and aggression but we saw Pukka nudge him to the ground against Norwich. If DCL came up against him he would eat Mason alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 49 minutes ago, Bailey said: He is nowhere near as good as Stones. Do you not think he just makes too many mistakes for a CB? I also think he is too weak as well. It makes up for some of that with his attitude and aggression but we saw Pukka nudge him to the ground against Norwich. If DCL came up against him he would eat Mason alive. i don't think you're factoring stones being so brittle into it. stones is always injured. that itself makes his value so little to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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