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Mason Holgate

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For a player who has already played 30-odd Premier League games I would have liked to see him go to a EPL team, however I know that this is probably not possible and playing in the championship is certainly better than him playing no competative football at all. Best of luck to him, hopefully he can return in the summer and prove a point pre season.

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1 hour ago, nyblue23 said:

Started (albeit at RB) and got a clean sheet against Wigan on Saturday. Hopefully he keeps playing.

No use there really, is he? We should have put a clause in the loan that he could only play centre half! 

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15 minutes ago, Matt said:

He’s a good player. I’d rather him playing in the CBs or RB position at the moment!

Agree, glad he is getting minutes. Sounds like that hegazi has struggled so hopefully mason can move over into CB.

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Watching the WBA vs Sheffield United game and didn't realise how Holgate seems to have filled out a fair amount this season! He also looks class on the ball. Maybe RB is his position, could save us a few quid on a RB next year if he keeps progressing with Kenny also pushing for it. 

Dowell took his header really well too. 

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16 hours ago, barryj said:

Poor penalty

Yeah but did you see that long throw for the assist for their only goal of the game?  Imagine having long throwers on both sides...

Must say I am surprised how well he has played at RB this season.  Frankly, before the season started, I thought he was done in a blue shirt.  Not sure he would make the Championship team of the season or anything but have to say well done to Mason.

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HOLGATE BACK TO BAGGIES?

Sky Sports News understands that West Brom want to take Everton defender Mason Holgate back to the Hawthorns on loan 

The 22-year-old spent the second half of last season on loan with Albion, but it’s believed Everton are not willing to allow the defender to leave.

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WBA have just signed a right back so would presume he’d be used as a centre back if a deal was sanctioned. As Romey said - no chance having lost Zouma and Jagielka but sign at least 1 quality centre back and it may be good for his development (should he play cb). Gibson could be a back-up option this season and I hope Mina will be a lot fitter after a ‘proper’ pre-season but I do think we need someone to build a 1st choice partnership with Keane. Gutted Zouma is looking less likely by the day!

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Sorry, poorly written.  Assuming that we're buying a CB (as expressed by Marco), and getting an RB on Loan (pretty sure the club has said this as well?).

If we do that, Holgate would likely be 4th choice CB and 3rd choice RB.  He needs to be playing, so a loan to a prem league team with Jags as a continuing mentor... No brainer for mine.

Think Gibson has shown enough to be the 4th CB cover this year.

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Oh fuck off Silva trying to take credit. The lad was playing regularly under Koeman and then had to go out on loan last season as Silva was playing a bang average at best Keane. 

"I told him what I wanted, he understood and the good games he is having, all the credit is to him."

-Silva :rolleyes:

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10 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

"I told him what I wanted, he understood and the good games he is having, all the credit is to him."

-Silva :rolleyes:

The sentence starts with "I told him". A token credit to him at the end doesn't hide the fact Silva is trying to take credit and distance himself from why he wasn't playing in the first place. 

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15 hours ago, pete0 said:

The sentence starts with "I told him". A token credit to him at the end doesn't hide the fact Silva is trying to take credit and distance himself from why he wasn't playing in the first place. 

Part of the managers job is to tell the players things. I can't believe you've found a way to be annoyed about this.

Who am I kidding, of course I can believe it! :lol: 

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3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Part of the managers job is to tell the players things. I can't believe you've found a way to be annoyed about this.

Who am I kidding, of course I can believe it! :lol: 

I've said similar previously. Unsure if it was Silva last time. Starting a sentence with "I" puts emphasis on yourself. It's a basic power move, just look at how often Trump uses it. 

By saying he'd told him what to do that takes away from the token credit to the lad at the end. 

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7 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I've said similar previously. Unsure if it was Silva last time. Starting a sentence with "I" puts emphasis on yourself. It's a basic power move, just look at how often Trump uses it. 

By saying he'd told him what to do that takes away from the token credit to the lad at the end. 

Because Holgate went to him and asked what he needed to do. I’m unsure how else he’s supposed to word it. 
 

Manager does his job, explains in an interview, and is then criticised for it. Weird. I think you’re reading way too much into it. 
 

Personally I think the pair of them should be commended for the whole thing. The player for going to the manager and asking how he can improve (rather than being a moody player around the club) and then following those instructions, and the manager for being open and honest enough with that player (rather than seeing it as his authority being challenged).

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15 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Because Holgate went to him and asked what he needed to do. I’m unsure how else he’s supposed to word it. 
 

Manager does his job, explains in an interview, and is then criticised for it. Weird. I think you’re reading way too much into it. 
 

Personally I think the pair of them should be commended for the whole thing. The player for going to the manager and asking how he can improve (rather than being a moody player around the club) and then following those instructions, and the manager for being open and honest enough with that player (rather than seeing it as his authority being challenged).

"Mason [Holgate] understood our defensive idea really well since the first day. He is a clever player.

"But it is one thing if you know, another if you practice every single day.

I read this as the manager saying he wasn't ready. 

"Mason came to my office not just because he wasn’t playing, he wanted to know what he should do in a different way to improve.

"Sometimes it is up to them to work every single day in the way I think is best to perform and develop football players.

I read this as the manager dating he's now ready thanks to the manager telling him what to do. 

Holgate played under Koeman who I'd argue understands central defence more than Silva. To go from 14 games on average the past two years to 4 games last year when Keane was average at best is very poor from the manager. Similarly he under used the other young players who were already here. Kenny (Coleman average for large parts) and Davies (take your pick of the midfield who largely putting 6s at best in most weeks). 

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Played well at the weekend, he looks so much more confident than Keane does, and is faster. Also noticed on Sunday that he was looking to play the ball forward whenever possible, still has a mistake in him, but he’s not alone in that.

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i have been a fan of his for a long time.  people slated me for wanting him to play CB, they though he was a RB and not a good one.  i was a fan at west brom, people said it's a shite league and he was a wingback, still not a cb.  glad to see people are coming around on this.  he will be a better player than his old teammate (from barnsley) John Stones.  He may not command the transfer fee Stones did but he stays healthy and is very solid (unlike stones).

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

He was solid again but it was very naive of him for the goal. He showed Alli inside onto his right foot when it was easier to push him wide. 

If that was Keane I would have expected a much more negative reaction. 

I think he would be disappointed watching it back. Showed Alli onto his stronger foot and also took the action away from his preferred side to tackle or block. Literally could have been a training cone in that moment. 

He still has some things to work on - not alone in that but he is positive. Mina has impressed the most though. I’m just about done with Keane.

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4 hours ago, Bailey said:

He was solid again but it was very naive of him for the goal. He showed Alli inside onto his right foot when it was easier to push him wide. 

If that was Keane I would have expected a much more negative reaction. 

He's got goalside, just unlucky that Alli cut in just as he's getting into position. If he's not in that position Alli would had clear sight at goal. 

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He was weak for that goal. But otherwise he was solid and pushed the ball forward. Rather see that than the other two passing to each for most the match. 

I give Ali credit more than Holgate making a mistake, but he could have been better.

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11 hours ago, pete0 said:

He's got goalside, just unlucky that Alli cut in just as he's getting into position. If he's not in that position Alli would had clear sight at goal. 

It's not unlucky. They are drilled all week as to what foot a player prefers. Holgate just over did it and then made himself as small as possible, presumably attempting to avoid dangling a leg and giving a pen away. 

He was solid enough and I certainly dont think he was any worse than Keane but these are the same naive errors he has made in previous seasons. 

 

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I think he would be dissapointed with his part in the goal but like bailey has said these players don’t know what to do for the best with VAR. Defenders used to make themselves big to get whatever they can on the ball. That’s not the case anymore 

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

It’s funny that 2 of the highlights in the last couple of games, as few as they’ve been, have been Holgate and Davies. Really good to see they’re working hard to be recognised and being given the chance to show they can step up. 

Think you credit the manager far too much. They've already shown they can do this under Koeman 2 years ago! It's took injuries for them to even get a sniff of football with Silva. How many points would they have saved us or contributed to last year. Keane cost us loads of goals as did Gana. Both also help with the tempo better than the other two as well. 

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

It's not unlucky. They are drilled all week as to what foot a player prefers. Holgate just over did it and then made himself as small as possible, presumably attempting to avoid dangling a leg and giving a pen away. 

He was solid enough and I certainly dont think he was any worse than Keane but these are the same naive errors he has made in previous seasons. 

 

Think you're being very harsh on him. He's cut across and done the best to cut him out, if anything Mina is too rash going for the ball but I'd put all the blame on Iwobi. To get into the position Alli runs into Holgate would have to slow his run and if he did that Alli would just be clear on goal and have no reason to cut in and the fans would murder Holgate for it. 

(goal at 56 seconds) 

 

 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

 

Think you're being very harsh on him. He's cut across and done the best to cut him out, if anything Mina is too rash going for the ball but I'd put all the blame on Iwobi. To get into the position Alli runs into Holgate would have to slow his run and if he did that Alli would just be clear on goal and have no reason to cut in and the fans would murder Holgate for it. 

 

First and foremost I agree that Iwobi's mistake is huge and everything from there is reactionary which makes your decision making so much more important.

I don't agree about Mina. He is isolated and if he doesn't step in and try and stop the ball he will be out of the game anyway, especially 1 v 1 against Son. It's risk v reward but I wouldn't critise that decision because he has two quicker players who have the run at him anyway running either side of him and the cover he does have in Holgate is there to sweep behind him. It's actually the exact reaction you would want from them both. They are working together, one to press and the other to sweep in behind. 

As I mentioned everything following the mistake is reactionary and Holgate doesn't very well to get back into a position to defend the goal. You can tell from Alli's first touch that he wants it on his right. From that point he is only ever cutting inside but all of the preparation before the game would have been about showing Alli to his left foot. Add in to the situation that Sidibe is also back. Im not sure what it is that cathes him out but I dont think he gets close enough after the first touch. I think you might be right in that he is expecting him to go down the line and therefore he is giving himself a better angle for that rather than the cutback. If he is half a yard closer to Alli then he gives himself a better chance of making the tackle. It looks to me as though he is defending against Son rather than Alli. He is expecting more pace and someone who is probably more likely to take it on his left. If he pushes Alli left he probably also pushes him into Sidibe.

I just think it's naive defending from him in the end because I think he could have done something about it, especially when you consider the player he was up against.

If that was Keane I doubt he would have got back but I do think he would have been more likely to make the challenge or at the very least slow Alli down because he is actually quite good at getting a toe on the ball in those situations. Then again Keane would have been skinned by Son a dozen times by then so don't think I am saying he would have been a better option. 

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With hindsight purely looking at the phase following the pass, Mina should chase back and Holgate them go towards Son. Mina stepping up completely opened up the option on the left for Son and made the decision and pass easier. 

Looking at the defending in the next phase with Holgate on Alli I just don't see what more Holgate could have done. He's in two minds for a reason and was only a fraction away. The play was all in Alli's favour at that point

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Holgate will learn from it. To be honest - I don’t think Keane would have done any better in the situation or even got there in cover. Keep him in the team and let’s see if he keeps developing. Needs a big season 

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I’ll be honest I never thought he would make it with us, as he admitted himself he was lacking in the physicality side of the PL. 

Hats off to Walcott for taking him under his wing, how many after training go to the gym everyday off their own backs, Walcott is showing him good skill sets if you want along and successful career, and fair play to Holgate that recognising hard work pays off. 

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I also thought he showed a lot of the reasons why he had struggled to maintain a first team spot. His decision making was poor at times and he was shrugged off the ball by Pukki at one point when he was last man. He seemed a bit rattled at times and when he is rattled he loses his concentration.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I also thought he showed a lot of the reasons why he had struggled to maintain a first team spot. His decision making was poor at times and he was shrugged off the ball by Pukki at one point when he was last man. He seemed a bit rattled at times and when he is rattled he loses his concentration.

Just looked too young and nieve I thought today. Got bullied

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