John Stones

[Louis]

An Italian source says the clubs are in negotiations with Chelsea.

http://gianlucadimarzio.com/campionati-esteri/premier-league/chelsea-pressing-su-stones-delleverton-la-situazione/


English translation: http://gianlucadimarzio.com/en/calciomercato/chelsea-is-in-pressing-for-evertons-john-stones-the-situation/

[MC11]

Martinez recent comments point to big player/players leaving. He said players will only leave if they are offered the right money.

[Romey 1878]

At least Gary Caldwell is a manager and not a player now so he won't be Stones' replacement.

[Lowensda]

£100m (not serious but I'd put it out there).

[Matt]

£100m (not serious but I'd put it out there).

If we're saying 50m for Barkley, I'd be slapping the same tag on Stones as a minimum.

[Makis]

Echo is already playing the "Everton don't need to spend much because the squad is already good" card which means there's not much in the coffers so Stones will go if the right offer comes along - and it won't be 50 million.

[Romey 1878]

Echo is already playing the "Everton don't need to spend much because the squad is already good" card which means there's not much in the coffers so Stones will go if the right offer comes along - and it won't be 50 million.

 

Have we got a different squad that I'm not aware of?!

[markjazzbassist]

this is one of the places I truely believe and trust Roberto. Moyes would give in to the big boys demands all day long because he wanted their letter of recommendation for a bigger job. Roberto does not. He didn't sell Barkley last summer when it was the hot topic, and I don't believe he will sell Stones this summer. Will they be sold eventually, possibly, but unlike Moyes he wants to keep his best players.

[Matt]

this is one of the places I truely believe and trust Roberto. Moyes would give in to the big boys demands all day long because he wanted their letter of recommendation for a bigger job. Roberto does not. He didn't sell Barkley last summer when it was the hot topic, and I don't believe he will sell Stones this summer. Will they be sold eventually, possibly, but unlike Moyes he wants to keep his best players.

Moyes had no choice, the finances were completely different - we had to sell starts to stay afloat.

[EFC-Paul]

The Echo will just be doing what all rags do and just stir and speculate I doubt as any other newspaper do have little knowledge of our finances

 

Keeping Stones is crucial if we want a strong and youthful spine Martinez as muh as I doubt him at times isn't daft and I can't see him letting him go not for the foreseeable anyway

[markjazzbassist]

Moyes had no choice, the finances were completely different - we had to sell starts to stay afloat.

 

i agree but rooney was sold for way too little, it has been talked about ad nauseum here but he gave SAF a discount for a reason. RM will not do this.

[Romey 1878]

 

i agree but rooney was sold for way too little, it has been talked about ad nauseum here but he gave SAF a discount for a reason. RM will not do this.

The board are responsible for that, not Moyes. I hardly think they'd take a lesser fee because Moyes wanted them to. We took a lesser fee because we were well and truly in the shite financially and were desperate for money. Edited May 8, 2015 by Romey 1878

[markjazzbassist]

The board are responsible for that, not Moyes. I hardly think they'd take a lesser fee because Moyes wanted them to. We took a lesser fee because we were well and truly in the shite financially and were desperate for money.

 

i understand romey and said this has been discussed ad naseum here, but to think Moyes best mate SAF and their relationship didn't have anything to do with it is just being naive.

[Matt]

i understand romey and said this has been discussed ad naseum here, but to think Moyes best mate SAF and their relationship didn't have anything to do with it is just being naive.

It's not naive, it will have had extremely little to do with any of it. The board did the negotiations and business. All Moyes will have done is say "I don't want to sell him, but reinvest some of the money in the squad please." Then there's the banks pressure, every opportunity to sell big we had too. The relationship wouldn't have gone past "Hi Davie, that lad for sale?". Maybe 1% of the deal might've had something to do with them.

 

28m for a kid was a huge chunk of money 10 years ago or however long. In hindsight it's easy to say we got less than we deserved, but all that money on someone who could've broken his leg or gotten too big for his boots and pissed his career away was a gamble on Uniteds part too.

[markjazzbassist]

the managers tell the board what is a decent price and what's not. BK isn't a talent evaluator, he just does what RM tells him to do and trys to make the best deals within those parameters. he's an impressario, what the hell does he know about player valuations?

 

come on matt and romey, moyes said "this would be ample, this is too much, this is too little, but use your judgement and go from there". there is no way in hell he said "BK sell rooney" and BK just started quoting figures and negotiating, no way.

[Romey 1878]

 

i understand romey and said this has been discussed ad naseum here, but to think Moyes best mate SAF and their relationship didn't have anything to do with it is just being naive.

Moyes had barely been here 5 minutes at that time so to think he'd have that sort of power then is bordering on the insane.

[EFC-Paul]

Moyes isn't an agent Mark it's the Club then them that place a valuation on their asset it's a similar situation to flogging your house you the owner along with an agent agree a realistic and sensible fee

 

To say it's being naive in regards to Rooney and Moyes is well off as Romey stated Moyes had been here a relatively short period when he went.

 

It could have been Chelsea City etc who made that bid at the time he would have gone to whichever for that kind of money it just so happened to be United with the status and financial clout at that time

 

They probably had a few personal chats about him as most managers probably do which could have prompted United to make an offer but other then that Fergie would have been able to spot the obvious talent moreso than we all could at the time

Edited May 8, 2015 by EFC-Paul

[Matt]

the managers tell the board what is a decent price and what's not. BK isn't a talent evaluator, he just does what RM tells him to do and trys to make the best deals within those parameters. he's an impressario, what the hell does he know about player valuations?

 

come on matt and romey, moyes said "this would be ample, this is too much, this is too little, but use your judgement and go from there". there is no way in hell he said "BK sell rooney" and BK just started quoting figures and negotiating, no way.

The managers won't do anything like that! Closest it will come is to ask the obvious; get as much as you can! That's dependent on a bid coming in, which is the start of the process in most cases. Same goes for the chairman - it's not their role. The market, plus the negotiating team of both clubs, drives the valuation and price tag.

[markjazzbassist]

we don't have a sporting director, they are the ones who deal with the transfers and valuations, so in liew of that, you all believe the manager has nothing to do with it and it's the agent and board? either sports team in england are run ass backwards (or just everton) or the manager has some sway with the board as to who to get and for how long and for how much.

 

so roberto says sign lennon (oh wait you guys said the board does all this, so they tell RM who they are going to sign? BS i say) and just hopes and prays BK doesn't pay 15m for him and ruin the budget? BS. he tells him I want him but if I only have 15m i need another 7m for this spaniard, so 8m tops for lennon. again if there is a sporting director this wouldn't happen because they do all that, but I refuse to believe RM just asks and whatever price and contract length and everything the board deem as OK he just takes as alright. that is ridiculous.

[JoeQuince]

we don't have a sporting director, they are the ones who deal with the transfers and valuations, so in liew of that, you all believe the manager has nothing to do with it and it's the agent and board? either sports team in england are run ass backwards (or just everton) or the manager has some sway with the board as to who to get and for how long and for how much.

 

so roberto says sign lennon (oh wait you guys said the board does all this, so they tell RM who they are going to sign? BS i say) and just hopes and prays BK doesn't pay 15m for him and ruin the budget? BS. he tells him I want him but if I only have 15m i need another 7m for this spaniard, so 8m tops for lennon. again if there is a sporting director this wouldn't happen because they do all that, but I refuse to believe RM just asks and whatever price and contract length and everything the board deem as OK he just takes as alright. that is ridiculous.

Nobody is as fucking dumb as you're making them out to be. There's also a massive difference between RM buying players and Everton, as a club, needing to sell to allay massive debts during Moyes' years here. Moyes could've valued Rooney at whatever the hell he would've liked. But, if the board agreed that a sufficient enough offer came in to help settle some debts, then they were going to say he's gone. Moyes wouldn't want to give away his brightest young player, and he wouldn't say take whatever offer you get. I'm sure he would've rather had the club be both out of debt and have Rooney stay. But, what could he honestly have done to stop them from paying the bills?

[markjazzbassist]

Nobody is as fucking dumb as you're making them out to be. There's also a massive difference between RM buying players and Everton, as a club, needing to sell to allay massive debts during Moyes' years here. Moyes could've valued Rooney at whatever the hell he would've liked. But, if the board agreed that a sufficient enough offer came in to help settle some debts, then they were going to say he's gone. Moyes wouldn't want to give away his brightest young player, and he wouldn't say take whatever offer you get. I'm sure he would've rather had the club be both out of debt and have Rooney stay. But, what could he honestly have done to stop them from paying the bills?

Enrolled them in a basic accounting course at the local university I hear you. Glad we are in a better position financially now.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

we don't have a sporting director, they are the ones who deal with the transfers and valuations, so in liew of that, you all believe the manager has nothing to do with it and it's the agent and board? either sports team in england are run ass backwards (or just everton) or the manager has some sway with the board as to who to get and for how long and for how much.

 

so roberto says sign lennon (oh wait you guys said the board does all this, so they tell RM who they are going to sign? BS i say) and just hopes and prays BK doesn't pay 15m for him and ruin the budget? BS. he tells him I want him but if I only have 15m i need another 7m for this spaniard, so 8m tops for lennon. again if there is a sporting director this wouldn't happen because they do all that, but I refuse to believe RM just asks and whatever price and contract length and everything the board deem as OK he just takes as alright. that is ridiculous.

[Matt]

we don't have a sporting director, they are the ones who deal with the transfers and valuations, so in liew of that, you all believe the manager has nothing to do with it and it's the agent and board? either sports team in england are run ass backwards (or just everton) or the manager has some sway with the board as to who to get and for how long and for how much.

 

so roberto says sign lennon (oh wait you guys said the board does all this, so they tell RM who they are going to sign? BS i say) and just hopes and prays BK doesn't pay 15m for him and ruin the budget? BS. he tells him I want him but if I only have 15m i need another 7m for this spaniard, so 8m tops for lennon. again if there is a sporting director this wouldn't happen because they do all that, but I refuse to believe RM just asks and whatever price and contract length and everything the board deem as OK he just takes as alright. that is ridiculous.

the scouts identify the targets, not Roberto. He will review for sure, and give his go ahead or not. Following that, a delegation will contact the players team (I concede, this can include the chairman occasionally, from what I've read), asking for permission to speak to the player. If yes, the players agent is contacted and negotiations begin, sometimes in parallel with the selling club over the transfer fee, usually after a transfer fee has been decided. The negotiating team at Everton will review their progress and update Roberto asking who they should prioritise. If all goes well, Roberto will sit with the player to see if his decision to sign him is the right one. Regarding contract length (new to the argument) of course he has a say. Transfers have been going on long before this waste-of-time position that is Sporting Director.

 

There was an article about how the whole scouting network worked at Everton under Moyes, it was fascinating.

[Matt]

Writing all that, I realised that's more my understanding than matters of fact. It's quite hard to find a definitive definition of the process (who plays what role etc) but this seems to summarise thing s well

 

http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-rules-and-processes-involved-in-the-transfer-of-players-from-one-club-to-another-club

[markjazzbassist]

Thank you matt that's a great explanation. I remember moyes was very involved with the scouting (he enjoyed that kinda thing), seems RM is a little more hands off.

[Matt]

Thank you matt that's a great explanation. I remember moyes was very involved with the scouting (he enjoyed that kinda thing), seems RM is a little more hands off.

He may not be. Moyes had his secret room where he discussed with the scouts, and then went out to watch the potentials. I'm sure Roberto will do the same, just not negotiating or defining transfer prices

[StevO]

Can we just not sell him for any price please? Unless it's enough money to build a new stadium debt free. Thanks.

[markjazzbassist]

Can we just not sell him for any price please? Unless it's enough money to build a new stadium debt free. Thanks.

 

agreed, let him play his contract and when it gets closer to winding down either sign him to another deal or if he wants to go to a bigger club then that's fine, but not now.

[c1982]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/584279/Manchester-United-Chelsea-Everton-John-Stones-Transfer-Gossip

 

I'd be offended if teams weren't interested!

[c1982]

The reality of this is that Stones is going either this summer (hopefully not) or next (unless we somehow get top 4). Money talks, and before people start Kenshite'ing here there and everywhere, it's not just us. Spurs and Liverpoo are the same (ish) and they've got got the sought after rich owners - Kane and Sterling will go at the right price. Basically the top 4 of last season have all the power. Only a takeover of Man C / Chelsea proportions or ECL qualification over a sustained period can change this... and this is why I am falling out of love with modern football (sadly I'm obsessed and it won't actually happen!) - something needs to happen though! I've mentioned before that my mate is involved with FC United and obviously a fan. A couple of weeks ago he was brought to tears at the trial opening of their own stadium in a friendly vs Benfica. It's not the glitz and glamour of the EPL but it doesn't stop me being envious of him.