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13 minutes ago, Matt said:

Wouldn't be surprised if this is a little over-exaggerated to allow Tom to work more with Unsworth and the squad who haven't travelled during the international break

Since I don't have an affiliation with England besides Everton, I would love for this to be true.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm not convinced that Tom Davies has a huge scope of improvement in him, which is what is required for him to be a top 6 player. He lacks discipline, makes rash tackles and doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch for me. He's never going to be a goalscorer, creator, or effective DM. I just dont see where his future lies. If he wants to be a player who just "ticks things over" in midfield he's not good enough. I wonder where everyone else sees his future? At first, he was an energetic breath of fresh air who always tried to do positive things. You are generally absolved from criticism as a young player.

Now he is in his third season, are we not expecting improvement?

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12 minutes ago, sydneyneil said:

I'm not convinced that Tom Davies has a huge scope of improvement in him, which is what is required for him to be a top 6 player. He lacks discipline, makes rash tackles and doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch for me. He's never going to be a goalscorer, creator, or effective DM. I just dont see where his future lies. If he wants to be a player who just "ticks things over" in midfield he's not good enough. I wonder where everyone else sees his future? At first, he was an energetic breath of fresh air who always tried to do positive things. You are generally absolved from criticism as a young player.

Now he is in his third season, are we not expecting improvement?

Davies is in his second season, not his third.

It does not surprise me that the two best performances we have had this season have coincided with Tom Davies playing. Out of all the midfielders we have he is the one who gets forward, he was involved in two of our goals against West Ham, and again involved in a goal against Huddersfield. He presses the opposition and gets back as well. He makes some good forward passes to, if you look at the last two games he created a few chances. 

Yes he makes a few rash challenges, but this is his second season and he has been in and out of the side. Like all young players give him game time and we will reap the rewards. He will be a quality player for us.

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4 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Davies is in his second season, not his third.

It does not surprise me that the two best performances we have had this season have coincided with Tom Davies playing. Out of all the midfielders we have he is the one who gets forward, he was involved in two of our goals against West Ham, and again involved in a goal against Huddersfield. He presses the opposition and gets back as well. He makes some good forward passes to, if you look at the last two games he created a few chances. 

Yes he makes a few rash challenges, but this is his second season and he has been in and out of the side. Like all young players give him game time and we will reap the rewards. He will be a quality player for us.

I hope you're right. I just think that there isn't much difference between him and Gueye (and i would prefer Gueye in) and Gueye gets a lot more stick than Davies. I agree that he does always look to pass the ball forward but surely this should be expected from a centre mid? He will run all day but I just don't think that he has the quality you need to become a top player. I think that he would maybe improve more than most though with better players around him. I just think in such a crucial position, we will need someone with more quality on the ball to ever threaten the top 6. And someone needs to show him how to tackle. He seems to pick up a yellow all the time.

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17 minutes ago, sydneyneil said:

I'm not convinced that Tom Davies has a huge scope of improvement in him, which is what is required for him to be a top 6 player. He lacks discipline, makes rash tackles and doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch for me. He's never going to be a goalscorer, creator, or effective DM. I just dont see where his future lies. If he wants to be a player who just "ticks things over" in midfield he's not good enough. I wonder where everyone else sees his future? At first, he was an energetic breath of fresh air who always tried to do positive things. You are generally absolved from criticism as a young player.

Now he is in his third season, are we not expecting improvement?

He made his debut in January this year. He had a bad game yesterday but the whole midfield did. 

His football brain is the best of any English kid in the last decade. He's not the quickest and a good stone lighter than the men he plays every week, but his reading of the game let's him compete. Get another experienced player like Barry next to him and he'll shine. 

 

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1 minute ago, sydneyneil said:

I hope you're right. I just think that there isn't much difference between him and Gueye (and i would prefer Gueye in) and Gueye gets a lot more stick than Davies. I agree that he does always look to pass the ball forward but surely this should be expected from a centre mid? He will run all day but I just don't think that he has the quality you need to become a top player. I think that he would maybe improve more than most though with better players around him. I just think in such a crucial position, we will need someone with more quality on the ball to ever threaten the top 6. And someone needs to show him how to tackle. He seems to pick up a yellow all the time.

Last season he was a key part of our midfield, he will be again this season if he plays enough games.

I think that he has not been as good as he was last season but I think a large part of that is he is playing in a struggling team where Morgan and Gana also had terrible starts to the season. 

He can pass, he has a great engine, gets forward and as Pete0 says he has great vision why his passing is so important. Give him games in a midfield that is performing and we will see he is going to be a quality player for us.

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7 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

I'm not convinced that Tom Davies has a huge scope of improvement in him, which is what is required for him to be a top 6 player. He lacks discipline, makes rash tackles and doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch for me. He's never going to be a goalscorer, creator, or effective DM. I just dont see where his future lies. If he wants to be a player who just "ticks things over" in midfield he's not good enough. I wonder where everyone else sees his future? At first, he was an energetic breath of fresh air who always tried to do positive things. You are generally absolved from criticism as a young player.

Now he is in his third season, are we not expecting improvement?

I have to say I agree with a lot of this- he is very rash and a bit of a headless chicken at times- however, experience and age will calm him down and make him a more mature and rounded player. He’ll never be a major star in the premier league but he can be a good solid player.

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Viera was a top player for me. He was making rash tackles all through his career, just like Fabregas who I also class as a top player. The list could go on.

All of these players had a degree of confidence or you could call it arrogance. Their other attributes made them great players and their arrogance made them hard to play against, feared. 

Im not putting him anywhere near the same class as those players, just pointing out hey all had that in their locker... just like Davies.

I see him becoming an excellent player. Will he reach the very top level? Not many do.

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12 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

I'm not convinced that Tom Davies has a huge scope of improvement in him, which is what is required for him to be a top 6 player. He lacks discipline, makes rash tackles and doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch for me. He's never going to be a goalscorer, creator, or effective DM. I just dont see where his future lies. If he wants to be a player who just "ticks things over" in midfield he's not good enough. I wonder where everyone else sees his future? At first, he was an energetic breath of fresh air who always tried to do positive things. You are generally absolved from criticism as a young player.

Now he is in his third season, are we not expecting improvement?

This is a joke, isn't it? He's 19 ffs!! No room for improvement?? Are you real?? 

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This is a joke, isn't it? He's 19 ffs!! No room for improvement?? Are you real?? 

Yes it’s just an opinion. There are countless players who don’t improve much. Barkley, cadamarteri, Jeffers, branch, Vaughan, Rooney even??? He’s not a bad player, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t see him becoming an England regular (which isn’t high praise these days). I think he’s probably a midfielder in the Jordan Henderson mould. Good engine but doesn’t offer much at either end of the pitch. I hope I’m wrong but if we have ambitions to break the top 6 I don’t think he will be good enough as a regular starter.


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20 minutes ago, sydneyneil said:


Yes it’s just an opinion. There are countless players who don’t improve much. Barkley, cadamarteri, Jeffers, branch, Vaughan, Rooney even??? He’s not a bad player, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t see him becoming an England regular (which isn’t high praise these days). I think he’s probably a midfielder in the Jordan Henderson mould. Good engine but doesn’t offer much at either end of the pitch. I hope I’m wrong but if we have ambitions to break the top 6 I don’t think he will be good enough as a regular starter.

 

I think it's amazing that people can right players off when they are probably 6/7 years from their prime. So-called fans of this club have been doing it to Barkley since day 1. It's hardly surprising he might be thinking of leaving. 

Let me make a comparison. Paul Scholes made his Man Utd debut two months before his 20th birthday and went on to be one of the finest English midfielders of all time. His tackling, by the way, was shocking at time. By the time Davies is 20, he will have played well over 50 first team games for us. Now I'm not saying he'll go on to be anywhere near as good as Scholes, but give some credit where credit is due! Do you not think there is a reason why three managers now have played him? He hasn't played a full season of senior football yet and you see the need to write him off... I honestly don't get it?? 

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3 hours ago, nogs said:

I think it's amazing that people can right players off when they are probably 6/7 years from their prime. So-called fans of this club have been doing it to Barkley since day 1. It's hardly surprising he might be thinking of leaving. 

I'm one of those so-called fans nogs, have been for over 60 years. Barkley played good stuff when he was 18, he hasn't improved in the 6 years since then and he's very close to his prime.

 His head is not right, he hasn't got the drive or the ambition to make himself a top player, put him up against David Beckham and he has lots more football skills, the difference is that Beckham had the dedication and drive to make himself into a very good player.  You don't always need the skills but you do need the determination, and guts to make it happen, unfortunately Barkley has none of them.

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32 minutes ago, Bill said:

I'm one of those so-called fans nogs, have been for over 60 years. Barkley played good stuff when's he was 18, he hasn't improved in the 6 years since then and he's very close to his prime.

 His head is not right, he hasn't got the drive or the ambition to make himself a top player, put him up against David Beckham and he has lots more football skills, the difference is that Beckham had the dedication and drive to make himself into a very good player.  You don't always need the skills but you do need the determination, and guts to make it happen, unfortunately Barkley has none of them.

Look, this is the Davies thread... but Barkley was one our best players second half of last season. I challenge anyone to make a case that we haven't missed him this season. 

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4 hours ago, nogs said:

I think it's amazing that people can right players off when they are probably 6/7 years from their prime. So-called fans of this club have been doing it to Barkley since day 1. It's hardly surprising he might be thinking of leaving. 

Let me make a comparison. Paul Scholes made his Man Utd debut two months before his 20th birthday and went on to be one of the finest English midfielders of all time. His tackling, by the way, was shocking at time. By the time Davies is 20, he will have played well over 50 first team games for us. Now I'm not saying he'll go on to be anywhere near as good as Scholes, but give some credit where credit is due! Do you not think there is a reason why three managers now have played him? He hasn't played a full season of senior football yet and you see the need to write him off... I honestly don't get it?? 

Don’t think anyone written anyone off just gave an honest balanced opinion of where they think the players are. I think more of a problem is some of our fan base watching our younger players and expecting them to  turn in to Messi or Ronaldo eventually- unrealistic expectations of them and when the inevitable happens and they don’t become worldies they fume at them.

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2 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Don’t think anyone written anyone off just gave an honest balanced opinion of where they think the players are. I think more of a problem is some of our fan base watching our younger players and expecting them to  turn in to Messi or Ronaldo eventually- unrealistic expectations of them and when the inevitable happens and they don’t become worldies they fume at them.

That's exactly what winds me up. I think it's a huge problem with our fan base, too many people are quick to jump on young kids backs for not being world class and it heaps tons of unnecessary pressure on them. It's the same mentality that makes England players freeze at every tournament, weight of expectation and all that. 

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18 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

I'm not convinced that Tom Davies has a huge scope of improvement in him, which is what is required for him to be a top 6 player. He lacks discipline, makes rash tackles and doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch for me. He's never going to be a goalscorer, creator, or effective DM. I just dont see where his future lies. If he wants to be a player who just "ticks things over" in midfield he's not good enough. I wonder where everyone else sees his future? At first, he was an energetic breath of fresh air who always tried to do positive things. You are generally absolved from criticism as a young player.

Now he is in his third season, are we not expecting improvement?

You know he's 19 right?

To put in perspective, Holgate is 21, DCL is 20, Kenny is 20. For me Davies is still the best of the bunch.

The lad has played almost 50 first team games, hes now on his fourth manager (if you include Unsworth) in his short career. The lad will keep improving, but how can we expect the kid to improve when his experienced pros around him have all fallen apart? When we have more stability we will see him improve.

edit; just seen all the replies. I'm late to the party.

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2 hours ago, nogs said:

That's exactly what winds me up. I think it's a huge problem with our fan base, too many people are quick to jump on young kids backs for not being world class and it heaps tons of unnecessary pressure on them. It's the same mentality that makes England players freeze at every tournament, weight of expectation and all that. 

That’s why  my whole analysis of him  was being a headless chicken at times and rash but he will develop and get better. He’ll become a good prem player Nogs but he’s no Gerrard or Lampard and that’s what fans need to stop expecting.

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