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Tom Davies

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We could take a leaf out of Frank Lampards book he put 3 under 21s in his team yesterday and between them they scored all of Chelsea’s 5 goals, in fact this season between them they’ve scored all of  their 11 goals this season. 

I can’t help wondering if Davies was in his squad he would be playing, let’s not be found guilty of losing our young talent because we are not giving them the opportunity they deserve even Kenny won rookie of the month in the Bundes league, could he have his head turned as Lookman and want to make it permanent why wouldn’t he. 

Davies is definitely good enough to play for us, and not giving him is fair opportunity and then as some have mooted send him out on loan is a recipe for losing him in my opinion. 

And for me that wouldn’t be good enough we have a good academy bringing through some good lads, and we were always led to believe Brands was a great advocate of giving youth a chance, well let’s start seeing it by giving Davies the opportunity he deserves instead of playing players who are out of form and players who are no better. 

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I’d like to see more of him, but if we get a win today we go level on points with City and possibly as high as 3rd in the table. It’s hard to complain with the current midfield if we pull that off. I hope we do get to see more of Davies, I’m a fan of his. 

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1 hour ago, Finn balor said:

I know lampard is the flavour of the month at the minute but let’s see what happens when he can buy his own players 

This all day long.  Lampard is forced to play those kids.  If he wasn’t he wouldn’t he would have big time Spanish import and French leaguer in there instead.  It would be business as usual with those kids on their 15th loan of their career before being sold.

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Completely agree. I think Frank is an intelligent guy and I’m sure he will be a successful manager, but these kids are reaping the benefits of the ban. I hope they make it and keep their places, I hate the way Chelsea have done things in recent times. 

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4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

This all day long.  Lampard is forced to play those kids.  If he wasn’t he wouldn’t he would have big time Spanish import and French leaguer in there instead.  It would be business as usual with those kids on their 15th loan of their career before being sold.

He isnt forced. He could play Giroud or Batshuayi. He has lots of options in midfield too and options at the back. I agree that he might have bought other players in as well but lets not undermine what Lampard has done.

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On 12/09/2019 at 13:47, plaidharper said:

With Finn and Palfy here.  Tom > Morgan. Not exactly the same type of player but Tom can throw in a tackle.  Things he does have that Morgan does not is that he can run with the ball, play a forward pass, and has heart.  Know who I would rather have on the pitch.

Said this before the game and exactly nothing has changed after the game.  If Silva is playing Morgan because he is better defensively then he should just look at some scorelines or tape of when Morgan plays...

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Have to echo the above. I think Davies has a long way to go before establishing himself as a consistent first team starter, but Morgan has added nothing lately. Davies is my third choice at the moment with Gbamin injured.

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On 17/09/2019 at 14:53, plaidharper said:

Said this before the game and exactly nothing has changed after the game.  If Silva is playing Morgan because he is better defensively then he should just look at some scorelines or tape of when Morgan plays...

 

On 17/09/2019 at 16:06, Sibdane said:

Have to echo the above. I think Davies has a long way to go before establishing himself as a consistent first team starter, but Morgan has added nothing lately. Davies is my third choice at the moment with Gbamin injured.

I thought Morgan played well at the weekend. I feel as though he is a bit of a whipping boy because he just goes about his business quietly and efficiently.

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17 minutes ago, Bailey said:

 

I thought Morgan played well at the weekend. I feel as though he is a bit of a whipping boy because he just goes about his business quietly and efficiently.

I didn't really think he played that well. It's true that he can kind of go unnoticed because of his role, but he just didn't seem very proactive in his passing/looking forward.

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47 minutes ago, Bailey said:

 

I thought Morgan played well at the weekend. I feel as though he is a bit of a whipping boy because he just goes about his business quietly and efficiently.

Wouldn’t say efficiently. There has to be more to his game. I can’t remember the last time he contributed to a goal or something I remember. Morgan would not get into Leicester or wolves or West Ham’s team. 

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10 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

I thought Morgan played well at the weekend. I feel as though he is a bit of a whipping boy because he just goes about his business quietly and efficiently.

I’m with you Bailey. He still hated over the training ground incident. I don’t think anyone had an issue with him before then, his drop in form came after that but he’s back to playing well for me. 
 

Creating goals and attacking play are not part of his game and not what he has ever done. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

I’m with you Bailey. He still hated over the training ground incident. I don’t think anyone had an issue with him before then, his drop in form came after that but he’s back to playing well for me. 
 

Creating goals and attacking play are not part of his game and not what he has ever done. 

I'm another that didn't think he had a bad game either.

For me, there are others that played much worse than him but haven't even had a mention. Iwobi was absolutely anonymous for most of the game - I'd forgot he was even playing until just before half-time. Delph was sloppy and was responsible for Digne getting booked. And those two have been voted MOTM by some for this one! While Schneiderlin , who went about his game and did what he's supposed to do, is getting stick.

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22 hours ago, Sibdane said:

I didn't really think he played that well. It's true that he can kind of go unnoticed because of his role, but he just didn't seem very proactive in his passing/looking forward.

Genuine question, why is it that your looking at his attacking play and marking him down for that when he contributed a lot defensively. I am probably bias the other way because I love defensive graft but for me he did his job well. They got very little joy through the middle and he was the main reason for that. When he did have the ball at his feet his was relatively safe but when the ball was on he played it and his passing to his teammates was crisp and accurate. 

22 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Wouldn’t say efficiently. There has to be more to his game. I can’t remember the last time he contributed to a goal or something I remember. Morgan would not get into Leicester or wolves or West Ham’s team. 

Why can't he contribute to them not scoring? He made one huge block in the Bournemouth game in particular as well as helping us turnover the ball on several occasions.  

I agree that he probably wouldn't but then again he wouldn't get into our team if everyone was fit. If those teams sold their best defensive midfielder, and then got 2 injuries in that position do you think they would play Schneiderlin then? I think they would.

12 hours ago, StevO said:

I’m with you Bailey. He still hated over the training ground incident. I don’t think anyone had an issue with him before then, his drop in form came after that but he’s back to playing well for me. 
 

Creating goals and attacking play are not part of his game and not what he has ever done. 

To be fair I think he is a bit of a pussy and whilst I think he is a capable player he isn't someone I would want in my side but I can still recognise and acknowledge when he has played well. For others he is a target, and also in fairness we all have those biases with certain players to differing amounts. 

I do agree though in that he is playing well and as Romey says afterward there are other players who played a hell of a lot worse.

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13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Genuine question, why is it that your looking at his attacking play and marking him down for that when he contributed a lot defensively. I am probably bias the other way because I love defensive graft but for me he did his job well. They got very little joy through the middle and he was the main reason for that. When he did have the ball at his feet his was relatively safe but when the ball was on he played it and his passing to his teammates was crisp and accurate. 

I'm not necessarily looking at his attacking play. I mean passing it forward/looking forward rather than sideways or back constantly. While I don't think he played that well I also don't think he was god awful. I just want more from him because he is capable of more as was shown in his first 6 months here. Maybe I need to go back and revisit the game, but I just didn't see much from him to say that he "played well." Safe, maybe.

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7 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

I'm not necessarily looking at his attacking play. I mean passing it forward/looking forward rather than sideways or back constantly. While I don't think he played that well I also don't think he was god awful. I just want more from him because he is capable of more as was shown in his first 6 months here. Maybe I need to go back and revisit the game, but I just didn't see much from him to say that he "played well." Safe, maybe.

I definitely agree that he is safe, that is him all over. Sometimes I would say afraid! 

From a completely statistical point of view* he played two less "forward" passes than Siggy did in all directions. He played 3 more "final third" passes than Delph. 

*pinch of salt required.

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6 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I definitely agree that he is safe, that is him all over. Sometimes I would say afraid! 

From a completely statistical point of view* he played two less "forward" passes than Siggy did in all directions. He played 3 more "final third" passes than Delph. 

*pinch of salt required.

I don't know how telling that is after that match. :rofl:

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3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Genuine question, why is it that your looking at his attacking play and marking him down for that when he contributed a lot defensively. I am probably bias the other way because I love defensive graft but for me he did his job well. They got very little joy through the middle and he was the main reason for that. When he did have the ball at his feet his was relatively safe but when the ball was on he played it and his passing to his teammates was crisp and accurate. 

Why can't he contribute to them not scoring? He made one huge block in the Bournemouth game in particular as well as helping us turnover the ball on several occasions.  

I agree that he probably wouldn't but then again he wouldn't get into our team if everyone was fit. If those teams sold their best defensive midfielder, and then got 2 injuries in that position do you think they would play Schneiderlin then? I think they would.

To be fair I think he is a bit of a pussy and whilst I think he is a capable player he isn't someone I would want in my side but I can still recognise and acknowledge when he has played well. For others he is a target, and also in fairness we all have those biases with certain players to differing amounts. 

I do agree though in that he is playing well and as Romey says afterward there are other players who played a hell of a lot worse.

Pretty much agree with all of that. 
 

On the other posts, safe is the best way to sum him up. He keeps possession, often played the simple/easy ball to the man next to him. That’s what I want from with the ball, he’s not going to turn into Iniesta anytime soon. Just win it and give it to a blue shirt. 

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The extended highlights from the Sheffield Wednesday game were not kind to Tom on the Everton Youtube channel.  Unless he had some great moments not shown, do not see him displacing Morgan with that performance.  Was really hoping he would as I am a big fan but you need to show up when given a chance.  Hopefully JPG and Gomes heal up quick.

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1 hour ago, plaidharper said:

The extended highlights from the Sheffield Wednesday game were not kind to Tom on the Everton Youtube channel.  Unless he had some great moments not shown, do not see him displacing Morgan with that performance.  Was really hoping he would as I am a big fan but you need to show up when given a chance.  Hopefully JPG and Gomes heal up quick.

Colour me surprised. Had his chance last season to perform against Lincoln in the cup and he did absolutely nothing with the opportunity. As bad as Schneiderlin has been at times I’d still have him ahead of Tom because when Morgan is on it he does have quality. Tom, on the other hand, doesn’t have much going for him other than he moves. 

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yep, people said i was an idiot for wanting him loaned out or sold, but he offers nothing on the bench, maybe he could become a decent championship player and make us a few quid.  i know he's a boyhood blue, but so are a bunch of the academy kids, just cause his uncle is famous doesn't mean he deserves any more of a chance.

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To be fair to Tom the highlights made everyone look shite. Gaps all over the place, midfield regularly outnumbered. Some real school boy stuff, especially from Delph who just let his man run past him at that free kick. Thats why Pep was happy to let him go for fuck all.

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So if we do say Davies isn't good enough and wipe our hands of him, it still begs the question - why are so few lads from our supposedly world class academy not progressing into the first team? To me there's a serious developmental issue there, especially as over the past three years we have wasted a criminal amount of money on players who just aren't up to it. I just think there's something wrong when we're paying Schneiderlin £100k+ a week and then you have a lad like Lundstram who has now played in every division of English professional football and is now starting every game in the Premier League for another club, and doing pretty well at it. Clearly there was always a player there, why did it take other coaches at other clubs to bring it out of him? There's other examples too, Forshaw at Leeds, Ledson at PNE - could both be playing Prem football next season. 

I'm not saying 'oh we have to play Davies so he progresses' by the way, coz you can only play players on form and he's obviously been struggling for a while. But I would have though the glass ceiling between our excellent academy and the first team is something Brands is looking at very carefully, especially as we have developed a knack of wasting millions on mediocre players. 

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I think there is a massive amount of difference in quality between Davies and the other two you mentioned. Those two still wouldn't play for us if they were here now. 

You also need to look at the bigger picture. How many players the say top 8 have home grown lads that hold down a regular starting spot and have done for a season or two. Some come in, look decent and then get sold off once they have been found out. Off the top of my head I can only think of Trent and Kane. Winks is there or thereabouts and so is Gomez. Foden may do when Silva retires but he also might get sold off too. Abraham, Tomori and Mount may be the current flavour of the month but there is no guarantee that will continue. 

With Davies you also have to look at whether he fits the managers style and I think its safe to say he doesn't. He isn't a holding midfielder, and he isn't a 10. You want Tom roaming from box to box, he isn't good enough with the ball to dictate the game, and he isn't creative or technical enough to be a 10. He is all about his movement, getting around the pitch, putting a tackle in and then breaking forward.  He should be learning how to get into the box late to finish off flowing moves. It doesn't matter how good the kid is if he doesn't fit what the manager wants.

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10 hours ago, nogs said:

So if we do say Davies isn't good enough and wipe our hands of him, it still begs the question - why are so few lads from our supposedly world class academy not progressing into the first team? To me there's a serious developmental issue there, especially as over the past three years we have wasted a criminal amount of money on players who just aren't up to it. I just think there's something wrong when we're paying Schneiderlin £100k+ a week and then you have a lad like Lundstram who has now played in every division of English professional football and is now starting every game in the Premier League for another club, and doing pretty well at it. Clearly there was always a player there, why did it take other coaches at other clubs to bring it out of him? There's other examples too, Forshaw at Leeds, Ledson at PNE - could both be playing Prem football next season. 

I'm not saying 'oh we have to play Davies so he progresses' by the way, coz you can only play players on form and he's obviously been struggling for a while. But I would have though the glass ceiling between our excellent academy and the first team is something Brands is looking at very carefully, especially as we have developed a knack of wasting millions on mediocre players. 

Lads don’t make it because they aren’t good enough. But managers don’t get the chance either. We want instant results. 
 

Ask yourself, if you were Silva now and you’re under pressure would you risk the kids when it could cost you your job? 
 

When we don’t beat a team we boo them off, us fans are too impatient. Every time we have a prospect we expect them to be world class, we compare them to Rooney and when they aren’t that level we turn on them anyway. 

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14 minutes ago, StevO said:

Lads don’t make it because they aren’t good enough. But managers don’t get the chance either. We want instant results. 
 

Ask yourself, if you were Silva now and you’re under pressure would you risk the kids when it could cost you your job? 
 

When we don’t beat a team we boo them off, us fans are too impatient. Every time we have a prospect we expect them to be world class, we compare them to Rooney and when they aren’t that level we turn on them anyway. 

The performances from Coleman, Keane, Gana and Sigurdssen were all well below what any kid could offer for chunks of last season. I'd much rather give a kid the minutes than freeze them out to play seniors who aren't playing well enough to justify their place in the team. Kenny, Holgate and Davies all should have had more minutes last year, both have put in performances at this level better than what the seniors were providing. I'd have kept Vlasic too over Sig who is just not involved enough. Similarly Besic was good enough too. 

We had options, the manager just chose not to. Barmy when you think we barely won a game were the opposition turned up. 

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Wow for once I agree with Pete! 

My point Steve is why, if we consistently have one of the best U23 teams in the country, are more of them not making it through to the first team? I don't really buy the not good enough argument. I do agree with the short term outlook that results from managers being under such pressure for their jobs. 

But my gripe is this. This is third season running we've got a two, three, four months into the season and things are looking far from pretty. And look at the spine of the team that hast started the past few matches - Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson. Exactly the same as when we fell apart under Koeman two years ago. I just can't get my head around that. Yeah I know Gomes and Gbamin are out, but we have no idea if Gbamin will turn out any good anyway. If Davies isn't good enough when we keep losing with the current starting midfield, he should be out on loan learning his trade. Same for Holgate, coz Keane is back to being bullied again. Our squad is still wafer thin, so if you aren't going to give a few lads a chance when you have a few injuries, what are you going to do? I don't get not charging a losing side, whatever the size of your squad. 

BTW Steve I agree with you on the impatience of the fans. I think it's a unique Everton problem too and it bugs the hell out of me. 

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3 hours ago, Bailey said:

You also need to look at the bigger picture. How many players the say top 8 have home grown lads that hold down a regular starting spot and have done for a season or two. Some come in, look decent and then get sold off once they have been found out. Off the top of my head I can only think of Trent and Kane. Winks is there or thereabouts and so is Gomez. Foden may do when Silva retires but he also might get sold off too. Abraham, Tomori and Mount may be the current flavour of the month but there is no guarantee that will continue. 

With Davies you also have to look at whether he fits the managers style and I think its safe to say he doesn't. He isn't a holding midfielder, and he isn't a 10. You want Tom roaming from box to box, he isn't good enough with the ball to dictate the game, and he isn't creative or technical enough to be a 10. He is all about his movement, getting around the pitch, putting a tackle in and then breaking forward.

I don't agree with your first point. Man City, Liverpool, to a lesser extent Spurs, you can understand lads struggling to come through the ranks because they have world class first XIs and more. Yet you've named examples of young players making it at each of them. Man Utd and Chelsea are kind of forced to play loads of homegrown players at the moment for different reasons. At the start of the season I was genuinely hopeful we'd finish higher than both. I don't see that happening now. Arsenal have historically been good at bringing one or two youngsters at a time through. Leicester are regularly playing lads that have come through their youth system and look a much better side than us. So no I don't think you're 'bigger picture' holds at moment, especially as we're struggling to cling on to being a top 8 club. 

I've discussed elsewhere that I don't like the system we play with Sigurdsson. I agree it doesn't suit Davies, he'd work much better in a flat 3.

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1 hour ago, nogs said:

I don't agree with your first point. Man City, Liverpool, to a lesser extent Spurs, you can understand lads struggling to come through the ranks because they have world class first XIs and more. Yet you've named examples of young players making it at each of them. Man Utd and Chelsea are kind of forced to play loads of homegrown players at the moment for different reasons. At the start of the season I was genuinely hopeful we'd finish higher than both. I don't see that happening now. Arsenal have historically been good at bringing one or two youngsters at a time through. Leicester are regularly playing lads that have come through their youth system and look a much better side than us. So no I don't think you're 'bigger picture' holds at moment, especially as we're struggling to cling on to being a top 8 club. 

I've discussed elsewhere that I don't like the system we play with Sigurdsson. I agree it doesn't suit Davies, he'd work much better in a flat 3.

The point is that I am referring to 8 clubs and you can name the players in the last 5 years on one hand. The last Arsenal player I can think of is Wilshere and that was a while ago now too. I can't think of any Leicester players... is Chilwell an academy graduate? Even West Ham... Anyone? By all means throw names at me because I can't think of any other nailed down regulars. They seem to be like us, come through, play in spells and then fall into the background. 

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12 hours ago, Bailey said:

The point is that I am referring to 8 clubs and you can name the players in the last 5 years on one hand. The last Arsenal player I can think of is Wilshere and that was a while ago now too. I can't think of any Leicester players... is Chilwell an academy graduate? Even West Ham... Anyone? By all means throw names at me because I can't think of any other nailed down regulars. They seem to be like us, come through, play in spells and then fall into the background. 

But what does the last 5 years matter? I'm talking about now and the fact that young players can't get in our side even though we're not very good!

Leicester - Chilwell, Barnes, Choudary

Chelsea - Abrahams, Mount, Tomori, Loftus-Cheek

Man Utd - Rashford, Lingard, McTominay, Tuanzebe, Greenwood, (Pogba) 

Arsenal - Maitland-Niles, Nelson, Willock, Saka have all played in the Prem this year. 

I cba looking up West Ham but when you add Liverpool, City and Spurs, that's 7 clubs. 

Anyway, my point is not to get drawn into a debate about whether our current youngsters are good enough for the Prem. IMO we are stood still as a club atm, potentially in danger of going backwards, and two key areas I think always need looking at when that happens is youth development and recruitment. For one thing, I don't think there's enough competition for places in our squad to keep certain 'senior pros' on their toes, and for that reason alone I'd like to see more youngsters coming through. 

 

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Nogs, I watch my under 8 team play and can pick out two, maybe three players that have a chance of making it.

I watch a lad called Lewis give his all to try to get back to make a tackle, he has that look on his face of not giving up, he looks like he will cry when they concede. This lad has a hunger that I don’t see in many of our team. 

Richarlison has it. Pickford has it, and Maybe Delpth. I don’t see that fight in any others.

Yet I watch Liverpool, City, Arsenal and many of the lower teams.... and I see that same look on 75% of their team.

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1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Nogs, I watch my under 8 team play and can pick out two, maybe three players that have a chance of making it.

I watch a lad called Lewis give his all to try to get back to make a tackle, he has that look on his face of not giving up, he looks like he will cry when they concede. This lad has a hunger that I don’t see in many of our team. 

Richarlison has it. Pickford has it, and Maybe Delpth. I don’t see that fight in any others.

Yet I watch Liverpool, City, Arsenal and many of the lower teams.... and I see that same look on 75% of their team.

So we're either signing the wrong type of characters or our last three managers have been utterly uninspiring

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17 hours ago, nogs said:

Wow for once I agree with Pete! 

My point Steve is why, if we consistently have one of the best U23 teams in the country, are more of them not making it through to the first team? I don't really buy the not good enough argument. I do agree with the short term outlook that results from managers being under such pressure for their jobs. 

But my gripe is this. This is third season running we've got a two, three, four months into the season and things are looking far from pretty. And look at the spine of the team that hast started the past few matches - Keane, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson. Exactly the same as when we fell apart under Koeman two years ago. I just can't get my head around that. Yeah I know Gomes and Gbamin are out, but we have no idea if Gbamin will turn out any good anyway. If Davies isn't good enough when we keep losing with the current starting midfield, he should be out on loan learning his trade. Same for Holgate, coz Keane is back to being bullied again. Our squad is still wafer thin, so if you aren't going to give a few lads a chance when you have a few injuries, what are you going to do? I don't get not charging a losing side, whatever the size of your squad. 

BTW Steve I agree with you on the impatience of the fans. I think it's a unique Everton problem too and it bugs the hell out of me. 

They are the only reasons I can think of why they don’t make it nogs. I can’t see any other reasons, can you?

i think managers are scared, I really do. 
 

I hope that isn’t just an Everton problem, but it bugs me too mate. 

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42 minutes ago, nogs said:

So we're either signing the wrong type of characters or our last three managers have been utterly uninspiring

Not sure which one it is either, but there is something not right.

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8 hours ago, nogs said:

But what does the last 5 years matter? I'm talking about now and the fact that young players can't get in our side even though we're not very good!

Leicester - Chilwell, Barnes, Choudary

Chelsea - Abrahams, Mount, Tomori, Loftus-Cheek

Man Utd - Rashford, Lingard, McTominay, Tuanzebe, Greenwood, (Pogba) 

Arsenal - Maitland-Niles, Nelson, Willock, Saka have all played in the Prem this year. 

I cba looking up West Ham but when you add Liverpool, City and Spurs, that's 7 clubs. 

Anyway, my point is not to get drawn into a debate about whether our current youngsters are good enough for the Prem. IMO we are stood still as a club atm, potentially in danger of going backwards, and two key areas I think always need looking at when that happens is youth development and recruitment. For one thing, I don't think there's enough competition for places in our squad to keep certain 'senior pros' on their toes, and for that reason alone I'd like to see more youngsters coming through. 

 

I use the 5 year analogy because I am looking at the most recent young lads to come through at a time when more and more money is coming into the game. I also said week in week out regular starters over a period of years. You have Chilwell and Rashford. McTominay is on the cusp under Solksjear but he wont play when they sign more players. The rest are just like Davies and Kenny and what may or may not be Dowell next season. When you consider we had Barkley come through before that its not shabby at all. Its in line with all of those clubs you have mentioned.

Where do you also draw the line for competition for places. We signed 3 number 10's a couple of seasons back! I would agree about some lopsided recruitment and I think Brands is addressing that issue. We are stood still because the players and the managers that we have signed over the last few years haven't bee good enough and that is the bottom line.

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38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I use the 5 year analogy because I am looking at the most recent young lads to come through at a time when more and more money is coming into the game. I also said week in week out regular starters over a period of years. You have Chilwell and Rashford. McTominay is on the cusp under Solksjear but he wont play when they sign more players. The rest are just like Davies and Kenny and what may or may not be Dowell next season. When you consider we had Barkley come through before that its not shabby at all. Its in line with all of those clubs you have mentioned.

Where do you also draw the line for competition for places. We signed 3 number 10's a couple of seasons back! I would agree about some lopsided recruitment and I think Brands is addressing that issue. We are stood still because the players and the managers that we have signed over the last few years haven't bee good enough and that is the bottom line.

Barnes is playing every game for Leicester. McTominay has played loads for Man Utd over the past year plus and has been widely rated as one of their better players through a generally shit period. Mount, Abraham aren't going anywhere.

Anyway, you make my point for me. "The players we have signed have not been good enough" - so why are we sticking with them rather than blood youngsters? And using the three 10s we signed is a strange point to make coz two of them have been shipped out because they are shit and the mega bucks star should be dropped coz he is badly out of form, but we apparently don't have anyone else! 

I agree that recruitment has been a massive problem. And I go back to the point Shukes makes, for whatever reason we're not signing players with the hunger or personality to improve us. 

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The 18-20yr old players that make it into a top half premier league team are pretty rare (or in an "unsexy" position).

Take a look at where the majority of our current starters were at 18 - 20.  They were playing regularly, in lower leagues/teams.

Richarlison's are rare enough, but even he went via Fluminense and Watford.  Mount and Tomori spent 2-3 years on loan.  Sancho had to leave.

Regular, senior, competitive football is a critical part of their development.  We're holding on to kids for too long in u18s & u23s.  If we think they're potentially good enough but aren't willing to risk playing/developing them, then we need to be loaning them out.

Whether you think he's good enough or not, don't think anyone can argue that DCL hasn't improved since getting increased senior minutes.

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On 01/10/2019 at 21:37, nogs said:

Barnes is playing every game for Leicester. McTominay has played loads for Man Utd over the past year plus and has been widely rated as one of their better players through a generally shit period. Mount, Abraham aren't going anywhere.

Anyway, you make my point for me. "The players we have signed have not been good enough" - so why are we sticking with them rather than blood youngsters? And using the three 10s we signed is a strange point to make coz two of them have been shipped out because they are shit and the mega bucks star should be dropped coz he is badly out of form, but we apparently don't have anyone else! 

I agree that recruitment has been a massive problem. And I go back to the point Shukes makes, for whatever reason we're not signing players with the hunger or personality to improve us. 

Last season DCL was playing every game for us. Davies was playing every game a couple of seasons ago. Just because they are playing now it doesn't mean they are going to make a career at that club. Most youngsters come in, do well and then fade out. Look at Winks, playing roughly every other game for Spurs but their fans are turning on him now. Utd fans wouldn't want McTominay if they had a half decent player to replace him with. Rashford is probably the same. Mount and Abraham might have great careers at Chelsea but they could just as easily end up at West Ham in a couple of seasons. 

All of our young lads have had a decent amount of first team action and I don't think any of them are good enough to be high end Premiership footballers. 

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