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6 hours ago, pete0 said:

Didn't watch the match but from the comments on here today I expected Davies' faults to be much worse. Sigurdssen just as much for fault but no one has mentioned him. 

First one Davies presses, like an idiot who used to play for us, but there should be another midfielder in the centre to the point I'd say Sigurdssen is just as much to blame for not being in position, and Iwobi(?) a little bit for losing his man. Funny thing is I've seen Gana press much more stupidly and defended for it by those lambasting Davies. 

Second one Sigurdssen makes the run too early. Given how we play to the wings and mostly safe plus Sigurdssen not being the fastest you'd expect him to want it to feet and not make that run. 

😂😂😂 you didn’t see it but it’s Sigurdsson’ fault !

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I've said in the Gomes thread how there was much love has been thrown at him but a couple of poor games and the knives come out. Same with Tom Davies he has been voted motm on the thread in this forum

Listen Mark. If you don't rate a player he can never have a good game, can't play a pass or make a tackle; he can make no contribution to the team whatsoever and is possibly the worst player ever to w

He should be playing never mind sold or loaned.

Whilst he was a fault on the ball for both goals, theres more to it, he needed more support around him, he was stretched, and after about 70 mins looked knackered and should have been subbed. I don’t think either  Maddison or Tielemans had good games, but didn’t get caught like Tom, did they go missing or did we nullify their efforts?

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It's a shame we're having to talk about this because he's played well recently, and as a team we were doing well yesterday - nice and compact, organised and stopping Leicester while still being a threat ourselves. But his mistakes cost us the game really, so it is what it is. 

He'll know it himself so hopefully he doesn't let it get him down and he follows what he does if he misplaces a pass - he goes again and makes himself available for the next pass.

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He cocked up for the goals and had a very poor last half hour. But I actually thought for an hour he and Sigurdsson did a brilliant job implementing a plan which naturally neither of them are particularly well suited to, they gave no one in Leicester's midfield any space to play at all. The turning point was Iheanacho coming on, him being prepared to drop off the back three and run with the ball caused chaos in our two defensive lines and it took us a while to react. You have to say great tactical awareness from Rodgers. 

Davies has to take this on the chin and get his head right for the derby. We can't afford him taking a backward step in performances with our injury situation, so it might be a good idea if Everton fans got behind one of our own for once. 

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26 minutes ago, Bill said:

I've said in the Gomes thread how there was much love has been thrown at him but a couple of poor games and the knives come out. Same with Tom Davies he has been voted motm on the thread in this forum 4 out of the last five games, but one poor game and the same people want to crucify him. We Are Everton and that's what we do.

A few people on this thread need to look at themselves, we need to try supporting our players not tearing them to bits after a couple of mistakes.

This sums it up well for me.

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13 hours ago, pete0 said:

Didn't watch the match but from the comments on here today I expected Davies' faults to be much worse. Sigurdssen just as much for fault but no one has mentioned him. 

First one Davies presses, like an idiot who used to play for us, but there should be another midfielder in the centre to the point I'd say Sigurdssen is just as much to blame for not being in position, and Iwobi(?) a little bit for losing his man. Funny thing is I've seen Gana press much more stupidly and defended for it by those lambasting Davies. 

Second one Sigurdssen makes the run too early. Given how we play to the wings and mostly safe plus Sigurdssen not being the fastest you'd expect him to want it to feet and not make that run. 

Siggy makes the run too early? The ball should have never have gone to Siggy. He was too close and thats why he was making the run. At the very least Davies could have at least played it into a position he could get a foot to it and not a yard behind him. 

As well as Davies has done he was absolutely nowhere all game when they took him on.

 

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  • 2 months later...
14 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Sadly I have to agree with this, had high hopes for him when he first broke through but if anything he has gone backwards since

 

Very sad to see.  He almost looks like he's aged into a 32 year old midfielder.

Sell him and hopefully a championship team of decent enough quality will give him a good home.

His intentions as a player are good, he just isn't mobile enough or strong enough.  The odd game gives you hope but you seen a 19 year old float around the pitch yesterday, snapping into tackles and making himself availed for passes and moving it forward. 

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14 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Sadly I have to agree with this, had high hopes for him when he first broke through but if anything he has gone backwards since

 

I've said for a long time that he does absolutely nothing well. There is literally nothing to his game at all.

It saddens me because I want lads coming through the academy to make it here but he's not cut out for it.

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5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Very sad to see.  He almost looks like he's aged into a 32 year old midfielder.

Sell him and hopefully a championship team of decent enough quality will give him a good home.

His intentions as a player are good, he just isn't mobile enough or strong enough.  The odd game gives you hope but you seen a 19 year old float around the pitch yesterday, snapping into tackles and making himself availed for passes and moving it forward. 

It's a bit like the schoolyard, back alley, free spirited footballer has been coached out of him. Not that it would make a difference to him!

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He lacks true pace hasn’t got a very good engine on him, against Chelsea he was letting his man go more because he couldn’t keep up with the pace when he passed him, which and I did mention it in game time, he left Sidibe trying to cover 2 men and he struggles with 1. 
If you lack pace you need to be a good reader of the game and be in the right position at the right time, if you recorded it take a look and you might see what I mean. 

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59 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Been managed by 6 managers in one club and he's not even 22. 

Haf, I really don’t think he’s ever been good enough. Whether we’d had 1 manager or 6 over that period of time wouldn’t make any difference to that in my opinion.

Ive watched him closely to see why some of our fans rate him and, other than putting effort in and not hiding (the minimum we expect), I haven’t seen anything in him. What I have seen is that he’s a poor passer of the ball, is slow in his decision making, slow in general, weak on the ball, doesn’t have a clue positionally, can’t shoot, isn’t a good tackler...

I just don’t get it!

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2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Haf, I really don’t think he’s ever been good enough. Whether we’d had 1 manager or 6 over that period of time wouldn’t make any difference to that in my opinion.

Ive watched him closely to see why some of our fans rate him and, other than putting effort in and not hiding (the minimum we expect), I haven’t seen anything in him. What I have seen is that he’s a poor passer of the ball, is slow in his decision making, slow in general, weak on the ball, doesn’t have a clue positionally, can’t shoot, isn’t a good tackler...

I just don’t get it!

I don't think he's good enough.  He was at his best when he first came in...  he is slow, unbalanced.

Pity cos I wish the others who need to go at least had his attitude. 

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Only caught the last 10 mins of the three games so just watched the highlights on the OS to see what the fuss is about. Can't see from the highlights why he's getting blamed? 

The tactics/formation killed us. The midfield is overrun and the defence is sitting too far back giving them too much space and an extra man to play in it. All we had to do to stop most their chances was to step up closer. 

From the moments I've watched Sidibe, Keane, Holgate and Sigurdssen all had worse stinkers. Gomes didn't do any better than Davies from what I saw either. 

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4 hours ago, Bailey said:

What do you like about him out of interest? 

i don't think he's a DM first of all, he's more similar to Gomes.  I like him more advanced not sat so far back.  I think on his day he transitions the ball well into attack and offers something in the final third.  i think defensively on his day he can really stick his foot in and make some tackles and add some grit.  he's slow, but so was barry, he just needs to improve his vision and understanding of the game which will come with time.  i think he also has passion, he gives a fuck which is something we need.  he's not going to back down to anyone.  we need that fire and steel.

 

i would put him where Gomes is during Cup matches or for rotation.  i would not have him be the DM like he has been.  

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6 hours ago, Bailey said:

What do you like about him out of interest? 

His hair looks cool as fuck, and with his socks down low too, that’s just cool! If he started wearing an old fashioned pair of Tiempo’s or World Cups, I’d be done!

I wish he was a bit more aggressive though. 

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2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i don't think he's a DM first of all, he's more similar to Gomes.  I like him more advanced not sat so far back.  I think on his day he transitions the ball well into attack and offers something in the final third.  i think defensively on his day he can really stick his foot in and make some tackles and add some grit.  he's slow, but so was barry, he just needs to improve his vision and understanding of the game which will come with time.  i think he also has passion, he gives a fuck which is something we need.  he's not going to back down to anyone.  we need that fire and steel.

 

i would put him where Gomes is during Cup matches or for rotation.  i would not have him be the DM like he has been.  

He’s not been DM. He’s just been playing the same role as Gomes, they just have different skill sets. The rest, I neither agree nor disagree, because I’m not sure what Toms best attributes are yet to be honest. When he first came on the scene he could break forward from deep, I don’t see that anymore and it’s disappointing. He played with no fear, but I think he has fear now. 

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23 minutes ago, StevO said:

He’s not been DM. He’s just been playing the same role as Gomes, they just have different skill sets. The rest, I neither agree nor disagree, because I’m not sure what Toms best attributes are yet to be honest. When he first came on the scene he could break forward from deep, I don’t see that anymore and it’s disappointing. He played with no fear, but I think he has fear now. 

Good post, he needs a defined role and time with Carlo and his team to develop. Give him next season competing for a place in a settled and please God a successful team then we will know where he is at.

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On 11/03/2020 at 04:04, markjazzbassist said:

i don't think he's a DM first of all, he's more similar to Gomes.  I like him more advanced not sat so far back.  I think on his day he transitions the ball well into attack and offers something in the final third.  i think defensively on his day he can really stick his foot in and make some tackles and add some grit.  he's slow, but so was barry, he just needs to improve his vision and understanding of the game which will come with time.  i think he also has passion, he gives a fuck which is something we need.  he's not going to back down to anyone.  we need that fire and steel.

 

i would put him where Gomes is during Cup matches or for rotation.  i would not have him be the DM like he has been.  

I’ve said from the moment we signed Gomes that Davis needs to shadow him. He lacks mobility but he is strong on the ball and can dribble. Either Davies and Gomes need to be paired with someone with real energy and puts a foot in but actually wins the ball. We had some one pretty similar to that last season. Hopes for Gbamin still. 

Davies probably needs to be in a midfield 3 to start off as well as he can’t control a midfield like Gomes yet...

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12 hours ago, Btay said:

I’ve said from the moment we signed Gomes that Davis needs to shadow him. He lacks mobility but he is strong on the ball and can dribble. Either Davies and Gomes need to be paired with someone with real energy and puts a foot in but actually wins the ball. We had some one pretty similar to that last season. Hopes for Gbamin still. 

Davies probably needs to be in a midfield 3 to start off as well as he can’t control a midfield like Gomes yet...

At the very least Davies needs to go out on loan for a season and figure himself out, what his position actually is. I don't believe he can do it while he's here.

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On 10/03/2020 at 17:34, markjazzbassist said:

i don't think he's a DM first of all, he's more similar to Gomes.  I like him more advanced not sat so far back.  I think on his day he transitions the ball well into attack and offers something in the final third.  i think defensively on his day he can really stick his foot in and make some tackles and add some grit.  he's slow, but so was barry, he just needs to improve his vision and understanding of the game which will come with time.  i think he also has passion, he gives a fuck which is something we need.  he's not going to back down to anyone.  we need that fire and steel.

 

i would put him where Gomes is during Cup matches or for rotation.  i would not have him be the DM like he has been.  

I don't disagree with some of that. Certainly as StevO says below, that breaking forward and playing the ball forward is one of his better attributes but at the same time, it's not hard to coach into players. I think he should be the guy that breaks forward and into the box or edge of it but then again when he gets there he is hardly a good finisher and of it breaks down is doesn't have the legs to get back. That is why he is difficult to place because a complete profile for any one position.

On 10/03/2020 at 20:06, StevO said:

He’s not been DM. He’s just been playing the same role as Gomes, they just have different skill sets. The rest, I neither agree nor disagree, because I’m not sure what Toms best attributes are yet to be honest. When he first came on the scene he could break forward from deep, I don’t see that anymore and it’s disappointing. He played with no fear, but I think he has fear now. 

Definitely agree with the last bit. Part of that is because you can't do that in a 2 man midfield now, but also as one of the two sitting players in a 3 man midfield, you still have the same problems. I'd play him as the 3rd man floating around in midfield, dropping in when the team needs it and then having the freedom to break forward and make clever supporting runs when we have the ball.

17 hours ago, Btay said:

I’ve said from the moment we signed Gomes that Davis needs to shadow him. He lacks mobility but he is strong on the ball and can dribble. Either Davies and Gomes need to be paired with someone with real energy and puts a foot in but actually wins the ball. We had some one pretty similar to that last season. Hopes for Gbamin still. 

Davies probably needs to be in a midfield 3 to start off as well as he can’t control a midfield like Gomes yet...

I think he is weak as piss. When we did have Gana, the two of them didn't play that well together because neither of them had the positional play. 

He can dribble and he can turn on the ball but he doesn't really get away from players because strong players can hold onto him and slow him down before getting back in and quick players will catch him up. 

He is a bit of a conundrum.

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On 12/03/2020 at 19:22, Romey 1878 said:

At the very least Davies needs to go out on loan for a season and figure himself out, what his position actually is. I don't believe he can do it while he's here.

Agree about the position, through no real fault of his own. 
Koeman tried him at RB for a period in a pre season. Silva had him further forward and he’s even found himself out wide. 
 

He is at his best with late runs forward and trying to get behind the defensive line. Needs to sharpen up some of his 2 touch football, pass, move, receive and pass type football. 
 

A promoted team should be trying snap him up on loan. 

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  • 3 months later...
2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I was embarrassed for him tonight. The highlight of his game was the air shot he had. Incidentally, that was his best first touch of the game. Mainly because he didn’t touch it.

Im still not seeing a single thing to change my mind about him. He still looks totally out of his depth and nowhere near good enough. 

Yep can’t disagree there. Gilfy came on didn’t lose the ball every touch and that transformed the game. Hes been poor but I think he took it to a new level today. Shame as I’ve always really wanted him to succeed at the highest level but I just don’t think it’ll happen. 

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5 hours ago, Bailey said:

The question is what does he offer to the side? Technically average, physically below average, mentally maybe slightly higher than average. 

I don't mind him filling in for a game or two here and there. I wouldn't want him having a run in the side.

He offers energy but seeing as he’s so slow and positionally thick as pig shit it doesn’t actually make any difference. 

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12 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

for those that would like to get rid (not me BTW), how much do you think we could realistically get for him?  i doubt he's on super high wages either.

According to https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tom-davies/profil/spieler/314210 £14.5m.

Love the kid but for that money I'd cycle up on a tandem to help him relocate.

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He was poor last night definitely a bad day at the office, but I’m not righting him off just yet. 
I think the heat got to him and he melted, let’s be honest people of his colouring struggle in the sun and heat, he was closes looking one out there to the Milky bar Kid 🧒 not designed for that weather😉

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1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

for those that would like to get rid (not me BTW), how much do you think we could realistically get for him?  i doubt he's on super high wages either.

Does it really matter how much we get for him? Either he is good enough or he isn't. 

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

But what would £14.5 get you to replace him, given we need to strengthen in many other areas?

I would bite your hand off for £14.5m for him. How many midfielders is he better than in the league? It's not going to be a particularly high percentage. 

As an example Brighton bought Mooy for less than £6mil. I know who I would rather have. 

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9 minutes ago, Bailey said:

As an example Brighton bought Mooy for less than £6mil. I know who I would rather have. 

A journeyman 29 year old who has played 7 times in the league for a struggling side, think I will take the England U23 captain with time on his side myself.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

As an example Brighton bought Mooy for less than £6mil. I know who I would rather have. 

We should have brought Mooy in regardless (price was low as he only had a year left on his contract when they got relegated). Would have been the perfect stop gap whilst we looked for a better player and give Davies a chance to develop. 

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

A journeyman 29 year old who has played 7 times in the league for a struggling side, think I will take the England U23 captain with time on his side myself.

Yet people get excited about Declan Rice (rated £44m?!) and the Chelsea kids yet Davies is head and shoulders above them. Koeman rated him highly enough to get him to skip the kids world cup. 

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5 hours ago, Bailey said:

Does it really matter how much we get for him? Either he is good enough or he isn't.

You’re better than that bailey.  Every team needs bench and rotation players. World beaters won’t be satisfied sitting on the bench.  Even Barca has some average players on their bench.  They aren’t good enough but they’re there to serve a purpose, no shame in Tom doing that for us.

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6 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

You’re better than that bailey.  Every team needs bench and rotation players. World beaters won’t be satisfied sitting on the bench.  Even Barca has some average players on their bench.  They aren’t good enough but they’re there to serve a purpose, no shame in Tom doing that for us.

Maybe Bailey doesn't think he's good enough even for that.

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15 hours ago, London Blue said:

A journeyman 29 year old who has played 7 times in the league for a struggling side, think I will take the England U23 captain with time on his side myself.

Not sure where you are looking but he has played 24 times for Brighton this season. You can have all the time you want, but Mooy is a far better all round player. Technically and mentally very strong.

11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

You’re better than that bailey.  Every team needs bench and rotation players. World beaters won’t be satisfied sitting on the bench.  Even Barca has some average players on their bench.  They aren’t good enough but they’re there to serve a purpose, no shame in Tom doing that for us.

I have said that he could stick around if he is happy to play on the bench plenty of times but a young footballer should be going out and trying to play regularly not just sat on the bench wasting his career waiting for an injury or two to fill in and then be dropped again when they are back.

The players on your bench should be ones that you are happy to rely on for a string of games. At worse they should be players that have a specific role in the squad, a bit like Park and Solskjear had at Utd. Would you want to be in the position we are in now season after season where a main midfielder gets injured and then Davies comes in to play 23 times like he has done this season? 

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8 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Not sure where you are looking but he has played 24 times for Brighton this season. You can have all the time you want, but Mooy is a far better all round player. Technically and mentally very strong.

I have said that he could stick around if he is happy to play on the bench plenty of times but a young footballer should be going out and trying to play regularly not just sat on the bench wasting his career waiting for an injury or two to fill in and then be dropped again when they are back.

The players on your bench should be ones that you are happy to rely on for a string of games. At worse they should be players that have a specific role in the squad, a bit like Park and Solskjear had at Utd. Would you want to be in the position we are in now season after season where a main midfielder gets injured and then Davies comes in to play 23 times like he has done this season? 

My bad, Wiki split this season into two as he signed on a permanent deal this season, adm I only used the number since he signed.. 

My point still stands though, he is at the peak of his career in terms of age and is playing for Brighton, no disrespect to the man but that is not what I want for Everton.

I am a Davies fan and would be interested to see how he would fair in Carlo's team for 23 games. It would massively aid his development and answer once and for all where he is as in terms of  a future with us. Personally I think he can become a really useful player for us.

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1 hour ago, London Blue said:

My bad, Wiki split this season into two as he signed on a permanent deal this season, adm I only used the number since he signed.. 

My point still stands though, he is at the peak of his career in terms of age and is playing for Brighton, no disrespect to the man but that is not what I want for Everton.

I am a Davies fan and would be interested to see how he would fair in Carlo's team for 23 games. It would massively aid his development and answer once and for all where he is as in terms of  a future with us. Personally I think he can become a really useful player for us.

i am too, removed him as my avatar (gotta take off the pressure LOL), but i still think he can come good.  our youngsters take a while (lundstrum, duffy, barkley) to mature

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3 hours ago, London Blue said:

My bad, Wiki split this season into two as he signed on a permanent deal this season, adm I only used the number since he signed.. 

My point still stands though, he is at the peak of his career in terms of age and is playing for Brighton, no disrespect to the man but that is not what I want for Everton.

I am a Davies fan and would be interested to see how he would fair in Carlo's team for 23 games. It would massively aid his development and answer once and for all where he is as in terms of  a future with us. Personally I think he can become a really useful player for us.

Haha I thought that must have been the case!

I'm not sitting here saying that Mooy is the man we should sign and it's problem solved or anything like that but is mooy better than Davies... Yes... Does he cost less than Davies... Yes. I'd hope our scouts could do a better job than that but it was a quick example that I came up with off the top of my head. 

He has had time under plenty of coaches now, I don't know what you expect to suddenly improve to make him the type of player that can help us get to the next level.

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5 hours ago, Bailey said:

I have said that he could stick around if he is happy to play on the bench plenty of times but a young footballer should be going out and trying to play regularly not just sat on the bench wasting his career waiting for an injury or two to fill in and then be dropped again when they are back.

The players on your bench should be ones that you are happy to rely on for a string of games. At worse they should be players that have a specific role in the squad, a bit like Park and Solskjear had at Utd. Would you want to be in the position we are in now season after season where a main midfielder gets injured and then Davies comes in to play 23 times like he has done this season? 

I know he had a bunch of loans, but Leon Osman was the midfielder who was never good enough but always waited for a chance to get in the team. Was never the best player, but from about 25 onwards he became a very steady player who could be relied upon. Would it be so bad if Davies stuck around and became that player? Just a steady Eddie in the squad, without being a world beater.

He might not be the best, but we’ve seen plenty who are worse. We wouldn’t get enough money to make it worthwhile selling him, and we would then need to find a replacement. Id still pick him over Delph every week. I’d rather we bring in a top level midfielder to partner Gomes and bring Davies in and out as needed, than to go and take a risk on another player. 

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

He has had time under plenty of coaches now, I don't know what you expect to suddenly improve to make him the type of player that can help us get to the next level.

But why does he have to be the player to take us to the next level? Why can’t he be a player in the squad who helps when needed? We will need back up players, why buy one if we’ve already got one?

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4 hours ago, Matt said:

He’s got Ossie syndrome. He’ll be and become even more an integral squad player. But he’ll never be first choice. 

I loved the look of Davies as a youth team player and after that City game I thought he was going to be the real deal but sadly he just hasn’t progressed   If anything he has dramatically regressed

Ive not been in this thread for a while so the first post I read was a reply to my comment from this tweet after the Chelsea game

 

Sadly nothing has changed , the same applied against Norwich 
 

He has far too many games that totally pass him by 

Ossie had great feet, a cool head and an eye for a goal, name one quality that Davies has 

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That city game he had Barry to talk him through the match and more importantly show for the ball. Compare how Barry plays to the likes of Schneiderlin and Gana and there's no question who makes it easier. 

The Chelsea game was he any worse than the rest of them? Nope. Much like Osman, Davies gets far too much grief from his own fans. The lad only has to give the ball away once and there's murmurs. 

Compare him to Gana, Schneiderlin and even Gomes and none of them stand out head and shoulders above him. Davies passing % is no worse yet he's the one who takes the most risk. Of them all Davies is the one that has the best vision. 

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