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Tom Davies

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

That city game he had Barry to talk him through the match and more importantly show for the ball. Compare how Barry plays to the likes of Schneiderlin and Gana and there's no question who makes it easier. 

The Chelsea game was he any worse than the rest of them? Nope. Much like Osman, Davies gets far too much grief from his own fans. The lad only has to give the ball away once and there's murmurs. 

Trouble is Pete he is giving the ball away all game every game so those murmurs are building in to a crescendo

I get the point about Ossie, even though I was a big fan of his, but again I ask the question . What does Tom bring to the table?

That is a genuine question btw because I just can’t see what it is

He is still young , I also get that, but he just isn’t dong it in an Everton shirt

Maybe , as I’ve alluded to before, he needs a loan to sort himself out and discover what type of player he wants to be

If he can get back to the all action player he was in the youth team  then we all win, if not he needs to find a club in the lower leagues where he can get regular playing time 

 

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8 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Trouble is Pete he is giving the ball away all game every game so those murmurs are building in to a crescendo

He really doesn't give it away anymore than anyone else though. That reputation stales him with some fans and it really needs kicking in the bud. 

I get the point about Ossie, even though I was a big fan of his, but again I ask the question . What does Tom bring to the table?

Vision, passing, tackling, leadership. His shooting is average but has good technique so wouldn't be surprised if he starts scoring a bit more once we're playing better. Only real negative is his pace but everything else will get better with time.

Of the English centre mids it's only Gilmour at Chelsea that's outplayed him (but our whole team was shite that day). Yet none of the others get the same pressure or abuse, if anything their fans are the opposite and blow smoke up their arse. Be nice if our fans starting believing in our youth or at least help take the pressure off otherwise we could end up scaring him off like Barkley. 

That is a genuine question btw because I just can’t see what it is

He is still young , I also get that, but he just isn’t dong it in an Everton shirt

Maybe , as I’ve alluded to before, he needs a loan to sort himself out and discover what type of player he wants to be

If he can get back to the all action player he was in the youth team  then we all win, if not he needs to find a club in the lower leagues where he can get regular playing time 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Trouble is Pete he is giving the ball away all game every game so those murmurs are building in to a crescendo

Its a bit of an stretch to say Davies gives the ball away all game every game!

Yes he was poor against Norwich but good against Lpool. 

He is number 7 in our MOTM standings.

I want him to stay and have the benefit of working under Carlo, but ultimately I trust the manager to make the right decision.

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3 hours ago, StevO said:

I know he had a bunch of loans, but Leon Osman was the midfielder who was never good enough but always waited for a chance to get in the team. Was never the best player, but from about 25 onwards he became a very steady player who could be relied upon. Would it be so bad if Davies stuck around and became that player? Just a steady Eddie in the squad, without being a world beater.

He might not be the best, but we’ve seen plenty who are worse. We wouldn’t get enough money to make it worthwhile selling him, and we would then need to find a replacement. Id still pick him over Delph every week. I’d rather we bring in a top level midfielder to partner Gomes and bring Davies in and out as needed, than to go and take a risk on another player. 

I don't remember seeing a lot of Osman when he was young so I can't really compare but Osman was a good technical player and he had a brain on him. 

As I said before I haven't argued that he should be sold per se, just that he isn't a player I would want to play every week or a significant chunk of the season as and when injuries hit.

3 hours ago, StevO said:

But why does he have to be the player to take us to the next level? Why can’t he be a player in the squad who helps when needed? We will need back up players, why buy one if we’ve already got one?

It was and general comment about us as a club going to the next level not just Davies doing it himself. 

If Davies plays as many games as he has this season, it doesn't matter who the manager is, we won't be going anywhere fast.

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

 

You're watching a different Tom Davies than me if you think he has good shooting technique and is a good passer. IMO he does decent enough vision but his technique isn't good enough for him to execute it consistently. 

I also don't see him as a leader and he isn't exactly a great tackler either. He has bottle and bravery and that would be his biggest attribute IMO. He doesn't hide but the problem is his other technical and physical failings stop him from imposing himself on the game.

 

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Just to throw it in here for a bit more balance, he isn't the only player in this squad that I struggle to see what they bring. 

IMO it's far more criminal that we brought Delph in on big wages to bring absolutely nothing to the side. 

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7 hours ago, Bailey said:

Just to throw it in here for a bit more balance, he isn't the only player in this squad that I struggle to see what they bring. 

IMO it's far more criminal that we brought Delph in on big wages to bring absolutely nothing to the side. 

I see where you’re coming from Bailey. 

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I'm glad someone does as I'm never too sure myself!  😂

I’m totally in agreement  with you. 
It’s the basics he seems to fail at. He lost the ball cheaply against Norwich, and then didn’t even attempt to get back... the old pass it on to someone else... came to mind. 
I also don’t see this shooting technique. 
I don’t get this passing ability either. 
leadership? 
Tackling is like watching a bad Paul Scholes.

That said, I like Tom Davies and desperately want him to succeed. I’m just struggling to see what his best attribute is.

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33 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I’m totally in agreement  with you. 
It’s the basics he seems to fail at. He lost the ball cheaply against Norwich, and then didn’t even attempt to get back... the old pass it on to someone else... came to mind. 
I also don’t see this shooting technique. 
I don’t get this passing ability either. 
leadership? 
Tackling is like watching a bad Paul Scholes.

That said, I like Tom Davies and desperately want him to succeed. I’m just struggling to see what his best attribute is.

Are you not prepared to consider that a lot of what you said could have been caused by the heat getting to him, I’m going to assume that you never felt that way as much after the Liverpool game only because you never said so at the time. 
The reason I say this is because some people who are fit can’t deal with sun and high temperatures that’s just a fact. 
I had Carpenters between the ages of 40-60 working on roofs Wednesday who all come to work Thursday, I had 2 younger and they look fitter cry off Thursday suffering from heat exhaustion. 
I accept he was the worst I’ve ever seen him in any game, but I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt that the conditions got to him, because I’ve never witnessed him play like he’d never seen a football before. 
Just trying to put some understanding of what went wrong 🤷‍♂️

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Your assumption is wrong mate. 
 

I think this every time I watch him play if I’m honest.

But I’m open to you showing me his shooting technique. 
His good passing technique. 
His good tackling technique. 
Or his leadership skills.

Because honestly, I have tried and tried to see the best parts of him, but I just can’t say what his strengths are. I mean is he a box to box? Defensive mid? Attacking mid? Something else?

I really want him to explode or life, I honestly do. But I’m slowly turning around to many others thinking, that he might just not be good enough. I’m happy for him to sit on the bench and be a squad player. 

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6 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Your assumption is wrong mate. 
 

I think this every time I watch him play if I’m honest.

But I’m open to you showing me his shooting technique. 
His good passing technique. 
His good tackling technique. 
Or his leadership skills.

Because honestly, I have tried and tried to see the best parts of him, but I just can’t say what his strengths are. I mean is he a box to box? Defensive mid? Attacking mid? Something else?

I really want him to explode or life, I honestly do. But I’m slowly turning around to many others thinking, that he might just not be good enough. I’m happy for him to sit on the bench and be a squad player. 

Your right he isn’t a master of any of those traits you mentioned, and he wouldn’t be on my team sheet as a starter on regular basis, but normally is all round game gets him through when required, but against Norwich I think that could go down as one of the worst performances I’ve seen of any player in an Everton shirt, which for me was not representative of a majority of his games, which makes me think he suffered from the weather conditions, because if that was representative of all his games for us then sack Carlo today, because no manager deserves to be in a job if they pick a player who plays like that every game. 

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44 minutes ago, Shukes said:

But I’m open to you showing me his shooting technique. 

He scored a chipped goal against City and in general when he has a pop it tends to be decently strook and near the target compared to a lot of midfielders who hit row z. 

His good passing technique. 

I don't see how you can question this one. Surely you've appreciated some of the balls he's put through are top class. He's probably the player most comfortable taking the ball with either foot as well. 

His good tackling technique. 

He positions himself so well he doesn't have to go flying in all the time, also comfortable to take the ball with either foot which makes it easier for him. The Scholes comparison is good, Scholes was the same just he had the reputation of being a poor defensively as he tactically took a yellow. 

Or his leadership skills.

He captained us and the England youth teams. 

A big example would be the United game when he coached Holgate through the match. (Which is Davies biggest problem, he doesn't have anyone coaching him out there. It's no surprise that his best performances had Barry next to him.)

Also when we're under pressure he's a player we look to to shield the ball, in general he's the player who doesn't shy under pressure. 

 

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49 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But I’m open to you showing me his shooting technique. 
His good passing technique. 
His good tackling technique. 
Or his leadership skills.

According to Fox his stats are one the best this season for a MF in our squad  better than Delph, Gylfi, Iwobi, Gomes and Schneiderlin, the only one in front of him is Bernard.

Now that surprised 😮 me completely, now they maybe wrong or I’ve misinterpreted them completely, but if right wow and wow again.

 I think I’ll put that down to stats are bollocks, Gana’s were good and he was shit so same here possibly 😂

 

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Haha I was just about to say.... read back what you just wrote. 
 

It’s a bit like PeteOs post above, Niasse scores a fantastic goal, made a fantastic pass, and even dribbled past three players..... 

Proof will be in the pudding. Carlo will pick him even when he has the players he wants in the squad.... if Davies is good enough.

If he isn’t good enough, you’ll probably see him put on the bench even before we buy players. Imagine if Delph is fit and he gets picked before Davies.... that will surely settle it.

It’s pretty damning for the poor lad to have you two Ps rate him, that usually spells doom for any player 😉

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24 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Haha I was just about to say.... read back what you just wrote. 
 

It’s a bit like PeteOs post above, Niasse scores a fantastic goal, made a fantastic pass, and even dribbled past three players..... 

Proof will be in the pudding. Carlo will pick him even when he has the players he wants in the squad.... if Davies is good enough.

If he isn’t good enough, you’ll probably see him put on the bench even before we buy players. Imagine if Delph is fit and he gets picked before Davies.... that will surely settle it.

It’s pretty damning for the poor lad to have you two Ps rate him, that usually spells doom for any player 😉

They usually end up leaving so that should make you happy 😃 

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56 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Haha all joking aside, I hope he stays. Local lad and he can do a job for us. 

That would be nice, but there is something to be said for the comment that if he is a first choice MF next season we are going to struggle to get to where we want to be?

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I think even his staunchest supporters will admit that he won’t be first choice mate. 
I think he is that player we can bring on and battle and stop the other team playing, when we’re defending a goal lead. Just come on and do a job.

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57 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I think even his staunchest supporters will admit that he won’t be first choice mate. 
I think he is that player we can bring on and battle and stop the other team playing, when we’re defending a goal lead. Just come on and do a job.

I think he is an all-rounder and that is part of the problem which role to play him in, he has played a more box to box role under previous managers, then for England he played as a defensive holder linking defence and attack.

For me he is good at reading the game and closing off passing lanes, he is a good passer, and tries to get the ball forward, and he draws fouls. 

He has brain farts and losses possession in silly areas and when he is poor he is very very poor. But he never stops trying.

Like I say I want to see a world class manager like Carlo can do with him.

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I don't think he is a poor player at all, but that game against Norwich was something else. 

Like others have said, I don't really see what his role is in the squad. He's not going to score a lot of goals; he's not going to be a defensive hound; and he's not going to be a creative player in the middle of the park. I so desperately want him to succeed, but he really has regressed since he first made his appearances. 

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41 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

I don't think he is a poor player at all, but that game against Norwich was something else. 

Like others have said, I don't really see what his role is in the squad. He's not going to score a lot of goals; he's not going to be a defensive hound; and he's not going to be a creative player in the middle of the park. I so desperately want him to succeed, but he really has regressed since he first made his appearances. 

To be fair our midfield has regressed over the last couple of years.

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2 hours ago, London Blue said:

Being part of a dysfunctional midfield has harmed his development. ;):P

Probably a mix of a few things tbh. Our midfield has been bad for a good while and we have not done well at addressing it at all. 

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45 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Probably a mix of a few things tbh. Our midfield has been bad for a good while and we have not done well at addressing it at all. 

And there was me thinking you were a Delph fan! 😂

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If Perez had got on the end of that cross as a result of Davies falling asleep it would have been a different reaction.

Thought he did well with his dribbling up the pitch though.

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Stupid to say he's peaked. How many midfielders even start at his age to even show what they've got.

Of the players in his position aged 23 and under there's; Gilmour, McTominay, Guendouzi, Fernandes, Ndombélé, Choudhuri, Ndidi, Tielemans, Rice, Longstaff, Cook, Douglas, Berge. 

Out of all his age bracket I'd put him as the third best behind Tielemans and Ndidi. Technically Ndidi is more of a defensive mid so could even argue Davies is the second best up and coming centre mid. 

He's also already got more to him than a few of the ones a little older too: Winks (24), Chalobah (25), Loftus-Cheek (24), Meyer (24). 

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1 hour ago, London Blue said:

Master Craig Johno also thinks signing Gomes was a mistake, which pretty much rules him out as someone with a footballing opinion worth taking seriously.

It was the Ratcliffe comment that caught my eye really. 

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7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Stupid to say he's peaked. How many midfielders even start at his age to even show what they've got.

Of the players in his position aged 23 and under there's; Gilmour, McTominay, Guendouzi, Fernandes, Ndombélé, Choudhuri, Ndidi, Tielemans, Rice, Longstaff, Cook, Douglas, Berge. 

Out of all his age bracket I'd put him as the third best behind Tielemans and Ndidi. Technically Ndidi is more of a defensive mid so could even argue Davies is the second best up and coming centre mid. 

He's also already got more to him than a few of the ones a little older too: Winks (24), Chalobah (25), Loftus-Cheek (24), Meyer (24). 

Its more about experience than age IMO. Age is used as a marker for young players because it tends to suggest that they haven't played a lot but Davies has 100 games under his belt and about 4 seasons. That's a good number to see how far a player is going to go. I can't imagine too many players suddenly come on leaps and bounds after 100 top flight games. 

There are plenty of 'meh' players in that group. I wouldn't say any of them were worse as such, just similar levels of average. I have seen enough of McTominay, Fernandes, Tielemans, Rice and Ndidi to say they are comfortably much better all round footballers with far less experience in the league (most of them). I like what I have seen from Gilmour too but its very early days and he is tiny.

Winks is a similar average player, Chalobah has been plagued by injury and Loftus-Cheek has far more going for him if he could also stay fit. 

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He needs taking to the vet now.

Can’t play a pass, can’t beat a man, can’t mark a man (or a space), can’t tackle or close down.

I’ve never seen a player run down as many dead ends.

Sorry to say that, as he burst on the scene but 100 games later he has managed to get Much worse As a player.

 

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i thought he had a great match.  was snapping at their heels for everything and sure a couple misplaced passes (literally everyone on our team had at least 1-2 of them) so i'm not sure why people single him out.  he was great in transition with that little half turn and looking up to move the ball.  drove the ball up the pitch a few times to spark the attack too.  people are too critical of him IMO, great match tom

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He looked good in parts and his effort can’t be faulted but he is just far too sloppy. I do hope Carlo sees enough that he can work with and improve but Davies needs to cut out the 3/4 (at least) stupid errors most games if he wants to stick around long term.

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11 hours ago, c1982 said:

He looked good in parts and his effort can’t be faulted but he is just far too sloppy. I do hope Carlo sees enough that he can work with and improve but Davies needs to cut out the 3/4 (at least) stupid errors most games if he wants to stick around long term.

This. He was woeful in the first half, along with the rest of them, but he did get better in the second half. His better, though, isn't anything that suggests a long term starting spot in our side.

Like Gyfi, it was nice to see an improvement in him but he still needs moving on in the summer or relegated to a bench role. If those two are starting a lot of games next season then we've failed in the upcoming transfer window.

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18 minutes ago, London Blue said:

He has a future here, if he gets his confidence back and plays in a settled midfield he will improve. I think he will be a very useful player for us. Just my opinion, but ultimately Carlo will have the final say, and I trust his judgement. 

It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens with Davies after Carlo has a transfer window like.

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Needs to be better in possession. I don’t mind him losing the ball when he’s trying to pick a forward pass, but the ones that really frustrate are the little 5-20 yard passes that go out of play or get cheaply intercepted. 

Was much better in the second half. 

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His problem I think is that he tries too hard. He comes, makes himself available and gets the ball, if we have possession. If we don’t have the ball he Quickly closes down. That the best part of his game. The problem comes that he is only good enough to have a 50% success rate in pulling stuff off on even his betters days. Today was one of those better days, but most of the time the outcome is that the opposition have the ball and he is out of position. Can’t have that in a top flight midfielder, sadly. 

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Not good enough I'm afraid.  Wish the lad all the very best - when it goes wrong for him him he doesn't hide and that is a credit to him.   He's been very unlucky to play with some of the biggest shithouses I've ever seen wear an Everton shirt.  Schneiderlein, Siggurdson, Walcott, Mirallas, the list goes on. 

Looked like a potential superstar.  I'm hoping a side like Bournemouth come in for him and he restarts his career. 

Lacks pace & strength and doesnt have enough attributes to nullify these deficiencies. He looks to at least play the ball forward and has good positioning.

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Like Dan Gosling in many respects as a player I think, though I'm sure he wouldn't screw us like Gosling did. Great shame if he moves on for me because I love his attitude and his uncle was a big hero of mine; maybe with some better players around him he could still contribute something in the future, modern day Alan Harper/Kevin Richardson possibly. Live in hope.

This is exactly why the amount of shit he gets pisses me off.  His commitment to the club is never in doubt, if half of these mercenaries had an ounce of his heart we wouldn't be in the shit we were in.

Sadly he seems to carry the can for the disgusting performances we have seen from siggy, Gomes,  delph, schneiderlein......  this lad doesn't have their talent.  So yeah the once in a blue moon performances they decide to throw in buys them a bit of credit with some fans who seem to think the odd 30 harder or a game where they make some good passes makes up for a season of strolling round with clean shorts.

Tom Davies has been massively mistreated by fans, he's still a kid age wise and the amount of pressure he's been under and lack of on for me mentorship is a disgrace. 

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He was fine next to Barry. What midfielder has done well since he left? 

Put him next to someone good and then judge. Just look at the Sig bid poster by haf. What the fuck can you do with cunts hiding like that. He had Gana and Sig last season both fucking doing it. Gomes isn't much better for it either.

As for Davies I see him making himself available, dragging players, and putting decent passes. If anything he's made the most passes that have had me impressed. 

Bar a yard of pace he's above average or better at everything else. 

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2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

This is exactly why the amount of shit he gets pisses me off.  His commitment to the club is never in doubt, if half of these mercenaries had an ounce of his heart we wouldn't be in the shit we were in.

Sadly he seems to carry the can for the disgusting performances we have seen from siggy, Gomes,  delph, schneiderlein......  this lad doesn't have their talent.  So yeah the once in a blue moon performances they decide to throw in buys them a bit of credit with some fans who seem to think the odd 30 harder or a game where they make some good passes makes up for a season of strolling round with clean shorts.

Tom Davies has been massively mistreated by fans, he's still a kid age wise and the amount of pressure he's been under and lack of on for me mentorship is a disgrace. 

Couldn’t agree more mate.  

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