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MikeO

Tim Howard

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but when its gone past all them you say is not his job to pick it up I agree with strengthening the back four but I don't get don't blame tim whatever you do.

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but when its gone past all them you say is not his job to pick it up I agree with strengthening the back four but I don't get don't blame tim whatever you do.

This example is just wrong to point fingers. There are 5 players who could've prevented that goal. Howard is one of them, but if you were going to put them in order of responsible, he is 4th for me.

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the one thing I can say without contradiction is that in my 55 years watching football this is the worst set of goalkeepers world wide I have ever seen, and its not the ball it does not swerve from corners or a lot of crosses.

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I love the example its wrong to point fingers but you did naming everyone else before it got to the 6 yard box.

Because you seem to think there was only 1 player who could've done anything about it, seemingly blinded by your obsession with Howard!

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no I blame them all coleman for not stoping the cross 2 centre backs for letting it get across the 6 yard area Osman for not tracking back and of course tim something you for some reason don't want to do, its not having a pop at just tim but you seam to stop when you get to him.now if im missing something tell me but I don't see why we can not criticise him ?.

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no I blame them all coleman for not stoping the cross 2 centre backs for letting it get across the 6 yard area Osman for not tracking back and of course tim something you for some reason don't want to do, its not having a pop at just tim but you seam to stop when you get to him.now if im missing something tell me but I don't see why we can not criticise him ?.

I have held him partially accountable, what are you talking about?!

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This is surely a wind-up because there are definitely more pressing problems in other positions that need addressing.

 

I know it's early, but I have a feeling our CB pairing is what's going to cost us some games this season.

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This is surely a wind-up because there are definitely more pressing problems in other positions that need addressing.

 

I know it's early, but I have a feeling our CB pairing is what's going to cost us some games this season.

Yes, but ifor they had a yank flag sticking out of there arses then you'd probably say the defense was fine also.

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I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

He is a good keeper overall, certainly not without faults and he falls into the category below the world class keepers with a hell of a lot of others. Some are better at some things than others but in terms of overall ability they are very similar.

 

In the premier league I would only put Courtois (based on roughly 6-7 games I have seen of him)and Lloris as clear of him with maybe Vorm and in there too (although I havent seen much of him in the last 12 months). The rest are all on a pretty similar level in that they are capable of world class moments but make one too many errors and this is the category Howard falls into IMO.

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I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

He is a good keeper overall, certainly not without faults and he falls into the category below the world class keepers with a hell of a lot of others. Some are better at some things than others but in terms of overall ability they are very similar.

 

In the premier league I would only put Courtois (based on roughly 6-7 games I have seen of him)and Lloris as clear of him with maybe Vorm and in there too (although I havent seen much of him in the last 12 months). The rest are all on a pretty similar level in that they are capable of world class moments but make one too many errors and this is the category Howard falls into IMO.

No Cech ? He's only 32 and arguably still has his best years ahead of him.

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I'd definitely have De Gea, Lloris, Courtois and Cech before Howard. That's about it in the PL though. Rather have Howard than Vorm. Maybe I'd prefer Begovic as well and he does look very good, but he usually plays behind a deep sitting defense in Stoke and so he isn't really asked to do some of the things we ask our keeper to do. Not saying he couldn't do it, just that I've not really seen it from him.

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No Cech ? He's only 32 and arguably still has his best years ahead of him.

 

He isn't at the same level he used to be and he doesn't command his area like he used to either. Still a very good keeper but not at the very highest level now. Still arguably better than Howard I suppose but it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other for me.

 

I'd definitely have De Gea, Lloris, Courtois and Cech before Howard. That's about it in the PL though. Rather have Howard than Vorm. Maybe I'd prefer Begovic as well and he does look very good, but he usually plays behind a deep sitting defense in Stoke and so he isn't really asked to do some of the things we ask our keeper to do. Not saying he couldn't do it, just that I've not really seen it from him.

 

I'm still not convinced by De Gea in terms of his command of his area or his anticipation off his line. He is probably the best shot stopper in the league though.

 

I have never really seen much of Begovic. I think he is a steady keeper without doing anything flashy and I don't know he would cope at a big club playing possession football. He might thrive, I just haven't seen him.

 

For Vorm I thought he was excellent when he first came over, the perfect keeper for a team like Swansea but I don't know what's happened to him recently.

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sadly I think we will stick with wot we got regards keepers, for financial reasons we sell a lot of merchandise in usa they believe any old hype and also I think we have spent all our money in one shop. its not a good reason for sticking with someone

though.

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sadly I think we will stick with wot we got regards keepers, for financial reasons we sell a lot of merchandise in usa they believe any old hype and also I think we have spent all our money in one shop. its not a good reason for sticking with someone

though.

 

I think you've allowed yourself to become far more critical of Howard than logic should allow. He cost £3m has done a fine job for the past 8 years now.

 

If we had a £100m transfer kitty I would maybe look at another keeper if they were far and away better. As it stands, I think this thread is a little harsh.

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Incidently Howard was second highest rated keeper last year on Squawka stats.

He did have a really good season last season to be fair which is why I'm happy thst he's getting another season . Hopefully he can push on from it and carry on the way he has.

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One swallow doesn't make a summer Matt. Lets hope he carries on like he finished last season.

How about the majority of his seasons with us, including a season which saw him break the record for cleansheets, better than Martyn, Southall...

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How about the majority of his seasons with us, including a season which saw him break the record for cleansheets, better than Martyn, Southall...

What I'm saying is last season he virtually eradicated the silly mistakes he's prone to making (and he is prone to them) he was much more solid in his all round game. He's always been a great shot stopper nobody can deny that but last season his concentration seemed so much better as did his decision making. Does that come with age? Probably and I'm hoping he can carry that on this season.

 

He did keep all those clean sheets but as some have pointed out here the goals he concedes is partly the defence in front . Then the same has to be said about the clean sheets he kept.

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Usually that expression relates to the "positive" being the exception to the rule. Howard makes more positive contributions than negatives.

He had a really good season last season . By far his best in an Everton shirt. Seasons gone by he has been somewhat suspect in certain areas of his game. He seems to have ironed that out. If he hasn't and we get a repeat of the errors and silly mistakes then for me it's time to look elsewhere.

 

Hence one really good season (swallow) doesn't make him a complete player (summer)

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He had a really good season last season . By far his best in an Everton shirt. Seasons gone by he has been somewhat suspect in certain areas of his game. He seems to have ironed that out. If he hasn't and we get a repeat of the errors and silly mistakes then for me it's time to look elsewhere.

 

Hence one really good season (swallow) doesn't make him a complete player (summer)

 

He was 5th highest ranked keeper the season before that behind Cech, Begovic, Reina and Hart. Above Loris, De Gea, Mignolet.

 

As I say, he is consistently one of the best. Focussing on mistakes does not do him justice over a season.

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He was 5th highest ranked keeper the season before that behind Cech, Begovic, Reina and Hart. Above Loris, De Gea, Mignolet.

 

As I say, he is consistently one of the best. Focussing on mistakes does not do him justice over a season.

All keepers make mistakes Haf, I accept that. It's the getting beat constantly at his near post or from long distance he needed to sort out which he seems to have. He still has no command of his area and his decision making can be poor at times but all that being he really impressed me last season with how he seemed to have matured and cut out the stupidness to his game.

 

I'm more than happy for him to have the gloves this season but if he doesn't continue with the vast improvement then for me we need a new keeper.

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All keepers make mistakes Haf, I accept that. It's the getting beat constantly at his near post or from long distance he needed to sort out which he seems to have. He still has no command of his area and his decision making can be poor at times but all that being he really impressed me last season with how he seemed to have matured and cut out the stupidness to his game.

 

I'm more than happy for him to have the gloves this season but if he doesn't continue with the vast improvement then for me we need a new keeper.

 

Show me a perfect keeper and I will show you someone who will earn £250k a week and have a transfer value of £50m.

 

Show me a near perfect keeper (Neuer, Casillas) and I will show you a player who commands champions league football £100k+ a week, £25m transfer valuation and even then they make mistakes...

 

The long and short of it is that Howard is the right fit for us as a goalkeeper unless we manage to spot another Neville Southall or get a Van Der Sar, Nigel Martyn who are still in great goalkeeping shape at a mature age and reasonable transfer value.

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Show me a perfect keeper and I will show you someone who will earn £250k a week and have a transfer value of £50m.

 

Show me a near perfect keeper (Neuer, Casillas) and I will show you a player who commands champions league football £100k+ a week, £25m transfer valuation and even then they make mistakes...

 

The long and short of it is that Howard is the right fit for us as a goalkeeper unless we manage to spot another Neville Southall or get a Van Der Sar, Nigel Martyn who are still in great goalkeeping shape at a mature age and reasonable transfer value.

Begovic for me over him straight away.

 

I never said there was such a thing as a perfect keeper. In fact I stated the opposite in that I wrote "all keepers make mistakes"

 

Of course we can't afford a Courtois. Cech, Nuer or the likes but just because we can't doesn't mean we have to stick with what we have.

 

As I've said, I'm happy for Howard to continue this season but I'm not totally convinced on him and neither where a lot of Evertonians until he had a season like he dod last year.

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I accept the views on tim are quite varied I am more towards the negative that's for sure but to measure him against southall or martyn you have lost touch with reality no mater what the record books say. and stats do lie. (r u related to him )

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I accept the views on tim are quite varied I am more towards the negative that's for sure but to measure him against southall or martyn you have lost touch with reality no mater what the record books say. and stats do lie. (r u related to him )

 

I think you have as much trouble understanding my posts as I do understanding yours.

 

At no stage did I measure Howard to Southall or Martyn. I was talking about "recruitment sourcing"...

 

:unsure:

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Hi it was not you I was answering it was THE ONE WHO KNOCKS

I meant that in a season he had more clean sheets than Martyn and Southall, so in relation to keeping clean sheets in that season he was better.

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Hi it was not you I was answering it was THE ONE WHO KNOCKS

 

I really have no idea what you are talking about... now I do now Matt has replied. Just need the quote function using mate...

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I really have no idea what you are talking about... now I do now Matt has replied. Just need the quote function using mate...

punctuation wouldn't go amiss!

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I meant that in a season he had more clean sheets than Martyn and Southall, so in relation to keeping clean sheets in that season he was better.

Better defence in front of him mate to be fair.

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Better defence in front of him mate to be fair.

Not really, Hibbert at RB, Yobo played a fair few at CB, Neville as the DCM? Only Lescott could be an argued improvement over Distin but thats a seriously close call.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Everton_F.C._season

 

Or you mean better defence than the days of Nev and Nig?

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Not really, Hibbert at RB, Yobo played a fair few at CB, Neville as the DCM? Only Lescott could be an argued improvement over Distin but thats a seriously close call.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Everton_F.C._season

 

Or you mean better defence than the days of Nev and Nig?

Nev and Nige mate. Nevs latter yesrs obviously.

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to the chap who said he has not dropped any clangers yet please look at arsenals first goal it went past inside the 6 yard box to the far post 2 yards in front of him for ramsey to tap in he could have thrown his cap on it and then that led to panic which led to the 2nd goal why do you want to blame every one but tim I don't get it.

He had a defender that should have cur the cross out, he trusted that defender and got let down.

In my opinion that was in now way a clanger, just bad judgement at the worst.

 

I don't want to blame everyone but him, I call it the way I see it.... Defence was terrible for that goal and Tim was let down.

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when you say he trusted that defender you don't switch off you always expect the worse and are ready, the defender who let him down as you put it had been running around for 80 mins and run out of gas he on the other hand had run nowhere and was as fresh as a daisy it was inside the 6 yard box for gods sake.

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Played on defence for twenty years mate and understand the need for not switching off.

I also I understand "not going for the same ball" which I am sure you would agree that when a keeper and defender go for the same ball and collide... That can be called a clanger.

 

Brett. I do agree with you he should have controlled the situation.

 

I just can't for the life of me call it a clanger. To me a clanger is dropping a ball, letting it through your legs and so on.

 

The point is that the goal was a combination of our whole defence not doing their job. Not a goalkeeping clanger.

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ah David not angry frustrated when you said going for the same ball I meant covering eventualities he did not go for the same ball as Coleman we are talking about arsenals first goal Coleman let him cross it, it rolled past tim in the six yard box that's the clanger try and keep up.

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