RuffRob Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Anybody who has read my posts in the past will understand I don't have tinted glasses, I don't go on hype or wishful thinking, I am a realist and go on facts rather than emotion. I remember the days before Moyes, and I understand actually how well he did with Everton with pretty much NO funds. The club was in a considerably better place when he left than when he came, and that was definitely not due to some sugar daddy bankrolling the club. We did move steadily forward under Moyes, and he should take the credit for a lot of that. People said he's taken us as far as he can, we need to push on, blah, blah. The fact is, at the time he left he actually was pushing us and keeping us well beyond were we should have been given our resources, it was a major feat keeping us at or around this level (as we are finding out under Martinez). In a different 'life' we could so easily have been playing Championship football for much of the past 10 years. Romey - In Martinez first 6 months, he rode the back of what Moyes had put together, the trend of Martinez has been a worsening team, the defence and tactics seem to get more shocking by the month. Put a 20 goal a season Lukaku in the squad for Moyes last season in charge, that would have been worth watching and may have done something. I agree that Goodison was devoid of strikers over most of Moyes's term, but he built squads solid from the back, but given the tight finances, the big money needed to bring in quality proved strikers was never there. I am pretty sure he would have given his right arm for £28M to spend on a Lukaku type. Quality big name managers and big name players rushing though the door wanting to better our club - that's looking through blue tinted glasses. There are plenty of 'name' managers and 'name' players about. With $$ in there eyes because of the massive TV cash influx to the Premiership. Next step, show intent what does that really actually mean - they are just sound bites!! The achillies heel for Moyes at the club was always the lack of ability to compete in the transfer market (even at mid-table level) to move to any other level other than knock on the door of the big six. He could now do that with the TV money and the new owners backing. I would be more than happy to see what he could to in two to three seasons, this time with a little spending power. He's available, he knows what the club is all about, and I bet you he has far more interest and passion for seeing Everton competing for silverware than most other manager out there. If Moyes was appointed he wouldn't be coming in order to get his nose in the Premiership TV money bag, it would be to prove he could take the club to the next level with finances available. We could do a hell of a lot worse!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) I would like to see Moyes back - as somebody else has mentioned the best we have seen of a Martinez team was based on purely on what Moyes had built and left for him, and nothing at all to do with any thing Martinez has brought to the table. Mix what Moyes had built and the enthusiasm that comes with any new manager, would give you that first 6 months we saw under Martinez. That has been as go at it got - followed by two years moving backwards. Moyes was always a few quid short of getting the 20 goal a season striker in to his squad, that would have made all the difference in his teams. Martinez has had that striker in his squad for the last two years and still managed to go backwards. The last few seasons under Moyes we played decent football and probably punched above our financial weight, we are punching below it now. I was personally sorry he went. I would like to see Moyes given a crack back at the club, with less financial constraints than he had during his first stint. He knows many of the player already. He was a dead man walking before he walked in to Old Trafford, everybody knows following Sir Alex was a poison chalice. He would have been called a bottler all his career if he didn't take that job when he was offered it, he had to take it really. He's been there and tried that now, and seen the grass isn't greener. Nothing that wrong with protecting leads once you go ahead in my opinion!! Crying out for some tactic like that now. Winning 1-0 is far better than losing 4-3!!! Only thing with Moyes is he takes 20 goal a season strikers (Yakubu and Beattie) and ruins them. He wasnt short of them he just doesnt know how to use them. Hes great at sorting the defence out being a defender himself but expects his forwards to be anywhere but in the box.Saying that id take him over the April fools joke whose in charge at the minute but my hope is for Pelligrini or someone of that standing. Someone that says we mean business. Edited April 21, 2016 by smeghead1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Only thing with Moyes is he takes 20 goal a season strikers (Yakubu and Beattie) and ruins them. He wasnt short of them he just doesnt know how to use them. Hes great at sorting the defence out being a defender himself but expects his forwards to be anywhere but in the box. Saying that id take him over the April fools joke whose in charge at the minute but my hope is for Pelligrini or someone of that standing. Someone that says we mean business. Yakubu scored 22 goals in one season under Moyes. He got a serious injury. That pretty much ruined him. Beattie was a lump when we signed him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 I would like to see Moyes back - as somebody else has mentioned the best we have seen of a Martinez team was based on purely on what Moyes had built and left for him, and nothing at all to do with any thing Martinez has brought to the table. Mix what Moyes had built and the enthusiasm that comes with any new manager, would give you that first 6 months we saw under Martinez. That has been as go at it got - followed by two years moving backwards. Moyes was always a few quid short of getting the 20 goal a season striker in to his squad, that would have made all the difference in his teams. Martinez has had that striker in his squad for the last two years and still managed to go backwards. The last few seasons under Moyes we played decent football and probably punched above our financial weight, we are punching below it now. I was personally sorry he went. I would like to see Moyes given a crack back at the club, with less financial constraints than he had during his first stint. He knows many of the player already. He was a dead man walking before he walked in to Old Trafford, everybody knows following Sir Alex was a poison chalice. He would have been called a bottler all his career if he didn't take that job when he was offered it, he had to take it really. He's been there and tried that now, and seen the grass isn't greener. Nothing that wrong with protecting leads once you go ahead in my opinion!! Crying out for some tactic like that now. Winning 1-0 is far better than losing 4-3!!! but the thing is we didn't win those games 1-0 we sat back and conceded. Moyes played very good football in his last six months because he knew he was going and took the shackles off. I fucking hope he goes to Celtic but I just cant see them paying him the going rate. De boer is the man for me. Bring bergkamp and stam with him, can u imagine that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yakubu scored 22 goals in one season under Moyes. He got a serious injury. That pretty much ruined him. Beattie was a lump when we signed him Yakubu got injured against Spurs near the end of.the season didnt he? He had been asked to run the channels and be more of a team player. Beattie scored goals for fun in a far less talented Southampton team, if I remember correctly we finished 4th with the lowest goals scored in Premier league history. Moyes teams were defensive you cant deny that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 We don't need anyone to build from the academy up right now, we need someone to stabilise the first team. We need someone who our best players will want to play for, will want to stay and work with. We have a great bunch of players in our first team, concentrate on the kids and we might not have the level of player in our first team that we do right now. For me this is make or break, bring in the right man to do the job and we may get to keep hold of Rom, Ross and Stones and improve the team further. Get it wrong and we lose them all, it may be some time before we get the chance to go at this level again. Selling them for big money is no use to us, we don't need the money. Even if we sold all three and got £200m for them, who could you attract to the club at that level? We would be in even more of a mess from what I can see. Unfortunately I don't think our first team is actually that good. Lukaku and Stones will leave, there's a lot of dead wood from the Moyes era in Osman, Pienaar, Hoeard, Gibson, arguably Mirallas and Oviedo too. Take those put, our first team looks very, very thin. We could sign 6, 7, 8 first teamers but that is always a risk. Youth represents continuity, developing on what we have got, forward thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 New manager required, then clear out a lot of dead wood, replace with experienced professionals and slowly integrate the promising youngsters rising through the ranks. But Martinez needs to go, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yakubu got injured against Spurs near the end of.the season didnt he? He had been asked to run the channels and be more of a team player. Beattie scored goals for fun in a far less talented Southampton team, if I remember correctly we finished 4th with the lowest goals scored in Premier league history. Moyes teams were defensive you cant deny that? His injury was in November 2008, nowhere near the end of the season. It kept him out for near on a year and although he went to blackburn and scored goals he was never the same player. Beattie was overweight from day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Under Moyes we were always short of a couple of quality players, always - because of money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Moyes said last night he'll wait until Summer, to see what's about basically, when being asked about Celtic. I doubt he'll go to Celtic just yet, unless nothing else is in offer, I'm sure he will think of himself better than the SPL at this time in his career. Personally, I'd be gutted if Moyes came back. I don't see the point in going back. I understand why people have an affiliation with him and that's fair enough. But for me it's a no. He had an opportunity at the biggest club in the Country when he left us. He had the money to spend. Got given the job on a plate. Had the best modern day manager giving him advice. Inherited the league champions. What else could you ask for? What happened? He took them down the table...they failed to qualify for the Champions League for the first time in 20 years, outside the top 3 for the first time in PL history. Couldn't beat fellow 'big' teams. Don't forget how he spoke of the club when he was chasing Baines and Fellaini. That was like a real kick in the teeth. Moyes has his own mindset and I think it's too restrictive to succeed when it matters. We have a chance to start again. Not to go back. So let's start again. As we know with ex girlfriends, it very rarely works out going back and is never the same. Romey 1878 and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Moyes blew money when he had it to spend. He ruined strikers... ffs he took world class and bang peak RVP who scored 26 premier league goals the year before who got 12 under Moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 ^ Agreed. Aim higher than Moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 ^ Agreed. Aim higher than Moyes. They also say never go back, I loved Howard Kendall but a part of me thinks he should never have taken the job the second time never mind the third. Moyes thought he was bigger and had outgrown our club so I think it would be a step backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Moyes said last night he'll wait until Summer, to see what's about basically, when being asked about Celtic. I doubt he'll go to Celtic just yet, unless nothing else is in offer, I'm sure he will think of himself better than the SPL at this time in his career. Personally, I'd be gutted if Moyes came back. I don't see the point in going back. I understand why people have an affiliation with him and that's fair enough. But for me it's a no. He had an opportunity at the biggest club in the Country when he left us. He had the money to spend. Got given the job on a plate. Had the best modern day manager giving him advice. Inherited the league champions. What else could you ask for? What happened? He took them down the table...they failed to qualify for the Champions League for the first time in 20 years, outside the top 3 for the first time in PL history. Couldn't beat fellow 'big' teams. Don't forget how he spoke of the club when he was chasing Baines and Fellaini. That was like a real kick in the teeth. Moyes has his own mindset and I think it's too restrictive to succeed when it matters. We have a chance to start again. Not to go back. So let's start again. As we know with ex girlfriends, it very rarely works out going back and is never the same. i agree with most of this but would like to point out WORLD CLASS louis van barcelona gaal has WORSE RESULTS than moyes did. and he's spent even more and had more time. maybe it wasn't moyes after all? they'll miss CL again this year, yet spent 150m this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Only thing with Moyes is he takes 20 goal a season strikers (Yakubu and Beattie) and ruins them. He wasnt short of them he just doesnt know how to use them. Hes great at sorting the defence out being a defender himself but expects his forwards to be anywhere but in the box. Saying that id take him over the April fools joke whose in charge at the minute but my hope is for Pelligrini or someone of that standing. Someone that says we mean business. Really? Beattie was rotting away in Southamptons reserves when we signed him and under Moyes he very nearly gate crashed the England squad for the World Cup Yakubu was notorious for being a one season wonder for every club that he played for so it really wasn't much of a surprise that he did the same at Everton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 We can look back at the past all we like and chew the fat as to who was or wasn't a good Everton manager but really, should we not be discussing who the next Everton manager should be? I have no issue with Pellegrini but ideally I would like to see him go to Southampton after we have got Koeman. I think Koeman and Everton are a good match. Throw in Moshiri and the extra cash and I think we could start being consistently good again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 21, 2016 Report Share Posted April 21, 2016 Really? Beattie was rotting away in Southamptons reserves when we signed him and under Moyes he very nearly gate crashed the England squad for the World Cup Yakubu was notorious for being a one season wonder for every club that he played for so it really wasn't much of a surprise that he did the same at Everton No. He was actually coming back from injuries when we signed him dunc. We signed him in the January after he had played 11 league games for them for that season. He scored 14 prem goals in his last full season for Southampton, 23 the season before that. He never scored 14 prem goals in total for us in the 2 and a half years he was here. There really is no indications that moyes enabled goal scoring strikers to do well. Thd only striker I seen get better under moyes was marcus bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) Under Moyes we were always short of a couple of quality players, always - because of moneyWe were also devoid of a world-class manager under Moyes. I would actually put Moyes in the third tier. Move on. Edited April 22, 2016 by TonkaRoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Moyes has his place in our history let's leave it that way, he steadied the ship and brought us stability and he can't be knocked for the majority of what he did but he stagnated and made many of the same mistakes people are pulling their hair out over Martinez for We've a billionaire investor and hopefully starting an new chapter so if Martinez does go it has to be fresh blood for me a more balanced manager not either end of the spectrum like now and then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Has he gone yet?? chicagoblue and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Newty82 Posted April 22, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 i agree with most of this but would like to point out WORLD CLASS louis van barcelona gaal has WORSE RESULTS than moyes did. and he's spent even more and had more time. maybe it wasn't moyes after all? they'll miss CL again this year, yet spent 150m this summer. Ok. Moyes inherited a side that won the league and had all the league and cup winning coaches in place...he got rid of them. He had the advice of Sir Alex Ferguson, he didn't take it. Quite stubborn eh? Van Gaal has had to start again. Different scenario. Not a fan of Van Gaal by the way, so not defending him. No interest in the at all. While you say Moyes had a better record at United than Van Gaal, it's true that he just beats him on win ratio. Well, Martinez currently beats Moyes win ratio at Everton. So what?! The other thing I'd say about Moyes/Martinez is that we often hear how Martinez is out of his depth and we should go for someone who knows how to win cups/leagues. Yet a section of our fans want Moyes back who failed at that level and through 11 years with us shown us what his maximum level is. Why on one hand do we say that we shouldn't settle for mediocrity, yet on the other hand we want to appoint a proven mediocre manager? I don't get it! We want to finish in the top 4, but we want to appoint a manager who, including a year at the Champions, only finished top 4 once in 12 years? I have no issue with Moyes, grateful for the stability he brought to the club. But he couldn't take us further. There's no point going back to him. Aim higher than that. Romey 1878, Hafnia, badaids and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Ok. Moyes inherited a side that won the league and had all the league and cup winning coaches in place...he got rid of them. He had the advice of Sir Alex Ferguson, he didn't take it. Quite stubborn eh? Van Gaal has had to start again. Different scenario. Not a fan of Van Gaal by the way, so not defending him. No interest in the at all. While you say Moyes had a better record at United than Van Gaal, it's true that he just beats him on win ratio. Well, Martinez currently beats Moyes win ratio at Everton. So what?! The other thing I'd say about Moyes/Martinez is that we often hear how Martinez is out of his depth and we should go for someone who knows how to win cups/leagues. Yet a section of our fans want Moyes back who failed at that level and through 11 years with us shown us what his maximum level is. Why on one hand do we say that we shouldn't settle for mediocrity, yet on the other hand we want to appoint a proven mediocre manager? I don't get it! We want to finish in the top 4, but we want to appoint a manager who, including a year at the Champions, only finished top 4 once in 12 years? I have no issue with Moyes, grateful for the stability he brought to the club. But he couldn't take us further. There's no point going back to him. Aim higher than that. Haf doffs cap and says bravo old boy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Haf doffs cap and says bravo old boy.... Thank you Sir. Every so often, one says something of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Ok. Moyes inherited a side that won the league and had all the league and cup winning coaches in place...he got rid of them. He had the advice of Sir Alex Ferguson, he didn't take it. Quite stubborn eh? Van Gaal has had to start again. Different scenario. Not a fan of Van Gaal by the way, so not defending him. No interest in the at all. While you say Moyes had a better record at United than Van Gaal, it's true that he just beats him on win ratio. Well, Martinez currently beats Moyes win ratio at Everton. So what?! The other thing I'd say about Moyes/Martinez is that we often hear how Martinez is out of his depth and we should go for someone who knows how to win cups/leagues. Yet a section of our fans want Moyes back who failed at that level and through 11 years with us shown us what his maximum level is. Why on one hand do we say that we shouldn't settle for mediocrity, yet on the other hand we want to appoint a proven mediocre manager? I don't get it! We want to finish in the top 4, but we want to appoint a manager who, including a year at the Champions, only finished top 4 once in 12 years? I have no issue with Moyes, grateful for the stability he brought to the club. But he couldn't take us further. There's no point going back to him. Aim higher than that. Personally I don't want Moyes back, I think we should be aiming higher, but I can see the rationale behind some people wanting him back You say he failed at that level, but he was never given a chance at that level. He did an amazing job getting us anywhere near the top4 but financially we just couldn't compete. I honestly believe that if he had been given the money Martinez has had at his disposal he would have smashed through that glass ceiling but the truth of the matter is that we will never know Moyes had an extensive knowledge of the game and scouted some top top players early doors before anyone had even heard of them but it was always window shopping for him because we had no dosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Would you think Moyes could do better with more financial muscle then Dunc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Would you think Moyes could do better with more financial muscle then Dunc? better than what, martinez or better than he did with us previously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 better than what, martinez or better than he did with us previously? I would say both seeing as though he did better than Martinez without the money markjazzbassist and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Am I right in thinking Moyes never won a game away at Chelsea, redshite, Arsenal or Man U? I always thought he bottled the big games played to lets say not lose but if we could nick a goal and grab a draw thats great! To be fair its better than we have at the minute but not the mindset I would like to see moving forward. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Moyes blew money when he had it to spend. He ruined strikers... ffs he took world class and bang peak RVP who scored 26 premier league goals the year before who got 12 under Moyes. Null point RVP was injured most of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Null point RVP was injured most of the season He actually wasn't. 4 weeks with a knee injury. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2657424/Rio-Ferdinand-says-Robin-van-Persie-went-star-man-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-sideshow-David-Moyes.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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