James Maddison

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

I find all of this talk of 'number 10s' slightly bizarre. Going back to the days when players wore numbers 1 to 11 on their back, the number 10 was the second striker in a 4-4-2 formation. As we have a manager who will only play one out and out forward, its a redundant concept. Silva will probably play three of the names being mentioned in this thread at any one time, like Spurs do with Eriksen, Ali and Son. So I think there very much would be room for Maddison. 

From what I have read and seen he will play 2 wingers and one advanced midfielder. So that is 3 players from Walcott, Bolasie, Lookman, Vlasic, Dowell, Davies, Klaasen, Sandro, Rooney, Siggy and probably someone else. 

[nogs]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

Unless your name was John Hurst, Catterick played him in the back four,  yes I agree it was mostly  4-4-2  or on good days it would be 4-2-4.

Fair point, a bit before my time I'm afraid! Must have been a bit unusual in those days, though? 

[nogs]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

From what I have read and seen he will play 2 wingers and one advanced midfielder. So that is 3 players from Walcott, Bolasie, Lookman, Vlasic, Dowell, Davies, Klaasen, Sandro, Rooney, Siggy and probably someone else. 

I don't see Bolasie, Klaassen or Sandro having futures at the club. And I don't see Davies playing in a front four. 

[London Blue]

13 minutes ago, nogs said:

I don't see Bolasie, Klaassen or Sandro having futures at the club. And I don't see Davies playing in a front four. 

Walcott, Lookman, Vlasic, and Siggy will stay with Dowell either being loaned or used here and there to bring him on. We may get another winger to provide competition.

Davies should be starting in midfield.  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, London Blue said:

Walcott, Lookman, Vlasic, and Siggy will stay with Dowell either being loaned or used here and there to bring him on. We may get another winger to provide competition.

Davies should be starting in midfield.  

Davies should not be a starter. Can you please tell me where you can come to that conclusion?

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, yamar said:

Davies should not be a starter. Can you please tell me where you can come to that conclusion?

From watching him play, he provides drive, technical ability and aggression.

His first full season playing for us under Koeman he was a revelation. Under a good manager I believe he will thrive.

 

[EFC-Paul]

Not knocking your opinion LB it just goes to show how we all see the game/individual players differently 

For me personally I think Davies is nothing more than average at best, does nothing exceedingly well and plods through games whilst going missing for large parts of it 

I really don't think the lads good enough for a starting spot and never will be 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said:

Not knocking your opinion LB it just goes to show how we all see the game/individual players differently 

For me personally I think Davies is nothing more than average at best, does nothing exceedingly well and plods through games whilst going missing for large parts of it 

I really don't think the lads good enough for a starting spot and never will be 

Took the words out of my mouth. He's average at everything. If he wasn't a local lad he'd be shipped out on loan now. He's a squad player at best. 

[Bill]

1 hour ago, EFC-Paul said:

Not knocking your opinion LB it just goes to show how we all see the game/individual players differently 

For me personally I think Davies is nothing more than average at best, does nothing exceedingly well and plods through games whilst going missing for large parts of it 

I really don't think the lads good enough for a starting spot and never will be 

You just described all of our midfielders, he's no worse than the others who do exactly the same as you've just said about Davies.

[Bailey]

6 hours ago, nogs said:

I don't see Bolasie, Klaassen or Sandro having futures at the club. And I don't see Davies playing in a front four. 

Maybe true but also maybe not. If they are still at the club come the end of the window then where does that leave us? 

I wouldnt disagree re Davies, he should be deeper and playing box to box but he has been used by the previous 2 managers as the most attacking midfielder.

 

3 hours ago, yamar said:

Davies should not be a starter. Can you please tell me where you can come to that conclusion?

He is a more complete player than Gueye, he has a far better attitude than Schneiderlin and the you are fucked if you want to rely on Besic.

Im not saying he is a world beater but he is the most reliable central midfielder we have.

[EFC-Paul]

5 minutes ago, Bill said:

You just described all of our midfielders, he's no worse than the others who do exactly the same as you've just said about Davies.

All of the other lads have attributes that are far greater than any I can think of that Davies possesses

I don't really have to list the attributes the other lads have that are much better than Davies do I!?

His trouble is he's a pure central midfielder no defensive qualities and nigh on no attacking qualities either, so players if that ilk either usually have range and vision or speed of play and a superior footballing brain and without bashing the lad to much he has neither of those 

He is purely and simply an average player, I think people are blinded by him being a local lad and his age imo 

[c1982]

Davies is 19 years old with barely 2 seasons under his belt... bit of perspective required here.

[Guest]

All the people who say he is good. Please tell me who you rate him against with other players in other teams. I wanna know what you mean by good.

[Bailey]

41 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said:

All of the other lads have attributes that are far greater than any I can think of that Davies possesses

I don't really have to list the attributes the other lads have that are much better than Davies do I!?

His trouble is he's a pure central midfielder no defensive qualities and nigh on no attacking qualities either, so players if that ilk either usually have range and vision or speed of play and a superior footballing brain and without bashing the lad to much he has neither of those 

He is purely and simply an average player, I think people are blinded by him being a local lad and his age imo 

I never get this local lad argument. If anything, local lads are judged much more harshly than any other non local players.

For example Davies has been rated as a better proposition by the last 3 managers than Besic or Klaasen yet some would rather they are both in the team ahead of him. 

I think Davies is an intelligent footballer. He shows great awareness of space both offensively and defensively (the latter being very underappreciated). Technically I am not sure where we stand with him because he was much better last season than this, which makes me think that there has been a psychological/confidence issues holding him back given the management situations rather than him not being good enough.

I think he could potentially learn loads under Silva. Tactically he will improve further and in the right set up, he could really flourish. I cant say that of Gueye, Besic or Schneiderlin. Klaassen maybe. 

Either way it will be a big season for him. If he steps up then great but if he doesnt then we will still be able to move him on for a decent sum.

[London Blue]

2 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

Not knocking your opinion LB it just goes to show how we all see the game/individual players differently 

For me personally I think Davies is nothing more than average at best, does nothing exceedingly well and plods through games whilst going missing for large parts of it 

I really don't think the lads good enough for a starting spot and never will be 

Football is defiantly a game of opinions lol.

In his first season Davies was absolutely amazing for a 20 year old. Second seasons are always harder and playing in a dysfunctional side under 3 managers made it even harder. 

With Brands and Silva I believe he and the other youngsters will thrive as we have a manager and DOF who believes in them and can truly help them develop to their potential. 

I believe that Davies will be a very good player for us for years to come, if given the chance. 

But I accept that there is a chance he wont make it.

 

[EFC-Paul]

54 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I never get this local lad argument. If anything, local lads are judged much more harshly than any other non local players.

For example Davies has been rated as a better proposition by the last 3 managers than Besic or Klaasen yet some would rather they are both in the team ahead of him. 

I think Davies is an intelligent footballer. He shows great awareness of space both offensively and defensively (the latter being very underappreciated). Technically I am not sure where we stand with him because he was much better last season than this, which makes me think that there has been a psychological/confidence issues holding him back given the management situations rather than him not being good enough.

I think he could potentially learn loads under Silva. Tactically he will improve further and in the right set up, he could really flourish. I cant say that of Gueye, Besic or Schneiderlin. Klaassen maybe. 

Either way it will be a big season for him. If he steps up then great but if he doesnt then we will still be able to move him on for a decent sum.

The local argument swings in roundabouts there's plenty of examples of it going both ways it depends on who and whats being discussed but in this instance I personally think the lad gets an easier ride because of it 

He can show all the awareness in the world but he doesn't do anything with the ball thereafter, he literally shows non of these so called attributes in my eyes that some see

He's a poor man's version of Ossie without the skill 

[StevO]

For a lad of 19 he’s doing just fine. 

[nogs]

I'm really glad we've got a DoF and manager in with a better perspective on youth than some posting on here. No wonder most of our talented youngsters end up leaving the club. 

[Ghoat]

I think he has shown flashes of being pretty good in all MF positions. Well rounded? Ok at all, good at none? I'm not sure, but I would think some stability at manager, as well as playing a single role for an extended run would help him a lot - as would having the same players around him in well defined roles. Our MF was different formations and different players seemingly game to game last year, grasping for something that worked. Not a single MF played consistently well last year - maybe be Gana due to work rate, but otherwise, it was a revolving door of players and tactics.  

His biggest for me isn'tt his skill on the ball or in tackles - but his willingness to attack, take players on as well as fly into tackles. It's hard/impossible to teach that in any sport - a player is aggressive/unafraid or they are not. He isn'tt intimidated by driving at a Yaya, or taking the ball off a Costa - grown ass men.

He needs polish, lots of it,. That can come from good coaching and experience. Lets not forget his Mum was driving him to training  every day from home this time last year.

[Matt]

15 hours ago, London Blue said:

Football is defiantly a game of opinions lol.

In his first season Davies was absolutely amazing for a 20 year old. Second seasons are always harder and playing in a dysfunctional side under 3 managers made it even harder. 

With Brands and Silva I believe he and the other youngsters will thrive as we have a manager and DOF who believes in them and can truly help them develop to their potential. 

I believe that Davies will be a very good player for us for years to come, if given the chance. 

But I accept that there is a chance he wont make it.

 

Even more impressive was he was 18, not 20  

[London Blue]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Even more impressive was he was 18, not 20  

Doh 

Maturity being his years lol

[EFC-Paul]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

I'm really glad we've got a DoF and manager in with a better perspective on youth than some posting on here. No wonder most of our talented youngsters end up leaving the club. 

Or maybe we've had the correct perspective on youth for some time as I can't think of many we've let go that have become world beaters!? We've carried to many players (not just youth) over the years when we should have shipped them on or loaned them out... 

Which talented youngsters by the way have left and thrived elsewhere at this or a better level? 

[markjazzbassist]

47 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said:

Or maybe we've had the correct perspective on youth for some time as I can't think of many we've let go that have become world beaters!? We've carried to many players (not just youth) over the years when we should have shipped them on or loaned them out... 

Which talented youngsters by the way have left and thrived elsewhere at this or a better level? 

rooney and duffy in recent history.  on the contrary one line of thinking (not saying i hold this belief) reads: we should sell the youngsters the minute they hit it big.  think of the 50m we could have got for barkley after that first martinez season or the second.  was it 30m being touted for davies when he was first breaking out? rodwell was well played sold him at his peak and he went bust from there.  trying to think of some others in recent history.

[c1982]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Even more impressive was he was 18, not 20  

Did you not know - his real name is Benjamin Button?

[EFC-Paul]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

rooney and duffy in recent history.  on the contrary one line of thinking (not saying i hold this belief) reads: we should sell the youngsters the minute they hit it big.  think of the 50m we could have got for barkley after that first martinez season or the second.  was it 30m being touted for davies when he was first breaking out? rodwell was well played sold him at his peak and he went bust from there.  trying to think of some others in recent history.

Duffy isn'tt at the level we are at or want far from it and Rooney wasn't let go he was bought as an outstanding talent the others like Rodwell Gosling strengthen my point of the previous post 

As said young players that were let go as ti re what Nogs said that would walk into our team? There aren't many if any bar very brief affairs with Dier and Mustafi 

Anyway it's just my personal opinion on the lad I hope he cracks on and does well I just don't see anything to suggest he will regardless of his age

[Finn balor]

I like Davies, he’s a baby and it’s a lot to ask for him to running the midfield with his frame. Next season is a big one for him but I can see him maturing into a solid premier league player 

[nogs]

4 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

Or maybe we've had the correct perspective on youth for some time as I can't think of many we've let go that have become world beaters!? We've carried to many players (not just youth) over the years when we should have shipped them on or loaned them out... 

Which talented youngsters by the way have left and thrived elsewhere at this or a better level? 

Something in the development of our young players between the ages of 18 and 24 goes wrong. Rodwell, Baxter, Lundstram, Ledson, Barkley and so on we're all extremely highly regarded at youth level but failed to make it at the top level. Go look at how many of our academy graduates play professionally in the FL - dozens of them. To me, the fact that so few make it in our first team is a coaching, development and culture problem, and that includes the way fans at Goodison are so quick to get on young lads' backs when they don't play well. Ever wonder why the other lot always seem to produce these great young kids? It isn'tt just talent, it's how they're nurtured and brought on. I really hope we will see that side change under Brands, but I think some fans have got to wake up and realise that expecting a kid of 19 to be the finished article, or even making statements like 'they'll never be good enough', is pretty ridiculous. 

[markjazzbassist]

6 minutes ago, nogs said:

Something in the development of our young players between the ages of 18 and 24 goes wrong. Rodwell, Baxter, Lundstram, Ledson, Barkley and so on we're all extremely highly regarded at youth level but failed to make it at the top level. Go look at how many of our academy graduates play professionally in the FL - dozens of them. To me, the fact that so few make it in our first team is a coaching, development and culture problem, and that includes the way fans at Goodison are so quick to get on young lads' backs when they don't play well. Ever wonder why the other lot always seem to produce these great young kids? It isn'ttt just talent, it's how they're nurtured and brought on. I really hope we will see that side change under Brands, but I think some fans have got to wake up and realise that expecting a kid of 19 to be the finished article, or even making statements like 'they'll never be good enough', is pretty ridiculous. 

other than gerrard what great young kids do they have?  arnold alexander too small a sample size.

[c1982]

2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

other than gerrard what great young kids do they have?  arnold alexander too small a sample size.

Carragher, Owen, Fowler, McManaman... they’ve done alright to be fair!

[markjazzbassist]

20 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Carragher, Owen, Fowler, McManaman... they’ve done alright to be fair!

yes but all those are a generation older than rooney.  in the recent past and present they haven't done much of anything which is what i was saying.  we've have rodwell barkley and now davies.  they have arnold alexander who just broke onto the scene and that's it.