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Trump in charge (ex race for the US presidency thread)

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2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

I was wondering how this was all going down over there.  very telling when an ambassador is reporting those types of things.  but those of us that are sane already knew all those things, sadly the right wingers will think it's some secret conspiracy to take down their precious Trump.

Boris Johnson has been wisely condemned as Trump's lap-dog because he wouldn't commit to keeping Sir Kim in post if (when) he becomes PM while everyone else said he should stay, pre-resignation obviously. Johnson is our Trump, albeit his IQ is roughly quadruple that of Trump, his manner and the fact that he's bullet proof despite all his proven lies and personal flaws prove that. The one big difference is that Trump actually got elected while Johnson won't have been.

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5 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/10/megan-rapinoe-tells-trump-your-message-is-excluding-people

How do American's view her war of words with him? Is she mostly praised or do people think she's in the wrong?

Split. If you're against Trump then you support her comments/stance and vice versa.

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1 hour ago, sibdane said:

Split. If you're against Trump then you support her comments/stance and vice versa.

Agreed. This is true of every issue. During the election Trump famously said that he could “shoot a person on 5th Avenue” and his base would still support him. Obviously hyperbole but it’s not far off. He’s been able to convince his supporters that every bad story, every scandal is just lies from the liberal media who are out to get him. Once a person believes that there isn’t much anyone can say to change their mind. Even if other republicans turned on him (unlikely) it would just be seen by many as sign of a deeper conspiracy against the man. He’s already breezed past a dozen controversies and scandals that would have felled any other politician. Consider that just in the last year he’s repeatedly insulted a dead war hero, been accused of rape (his 16th allegation of sexual misconduct), stood up in front of the world and taken Putin’s side over his own intelligence community, refused to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the brutal murder of a journalist etc.. None of it sways his base. Fortunately, (from my point of view), his base isn’t large enough to get him re-elected.

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11 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

Agreed. This is true of every issue. During the election Trump famously said that he could “shoot a person on 5th Avenue” and his base would still support him. Obviously hyperbole but it’s not far off. He’s been able to convince his supporters that every bad story, every scandal is just lies from the liberal media who are out to get him. Once a person believes that there isn’t much anyone can say to change their mind. Even if other republicans turned on him (unlikely) it would just be seen by many as sign of a deeper conspiracy against the man. He’s already breezed past a dozen controversies and scandals that would have felled any other politician. Consider that just in the last year he’s repeatedly insulted a dead war hero, been accused of rape (his 16th allegation of sexual misconduct), stood up in front of the world and taken Putin’s side over his own intelligence community, refused to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the brutal murder of a journalist etc.. None of it sways his base. Fortunately, (from my point of view), his base isn’t large enough to get him re-elected.

He's not shooting people, but he is killing small children. Then again, as Trump News Fox News put it, "they're not our kids."

https://time.com/5624391/yazmin-juarez-migrant-mom-congressional-testimony/

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11 hours ago, sibdane said:

I'm surprised he didn't demand the citizenship status of those submitting responses.

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10 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

I'm surprised he didn't demand the citizenship status of those submitting responses.

I actually wanted to take the survey, because it was marketed as "How is Trump doing vs. the Democrats?"

There wasn't even an open-ended "other feedback" question to say whatever you want. I can't say I'm surprised it was created like that, but it was just so cringe.

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16 hours ago, MikeO said:

No satirist could make up this crap, it'd be too unbelievable, but it's real; I'm speechless (yet again)...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48982172

Worse part is I think he'll get re-elected. There are so many Democratic candidates running against each other that the field is flooded. There is also a divide between the progressive and moderate Democrats right now. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but the Democrats need to pick a candidate and fast. The next election is almost a year away, and there is really no clear, strong front-runner.

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43 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Bet Boris won't.

That’d require him to differentiate between right and wrong though. It’s not that he won’t, he just can’t because he’s, well, Boris...

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10 minutes ago, Matt said:

That’d require him to differentiate between right and wrong though. It’s not that he won’t, he just can’t because he’s, well, Boris...

True enough, I heard him described as, "Trump with a thesaurus" at the week-end which I thought was pretty accurate. 

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On 11/07/2019 at 03:41, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/10/megan-rapinoe-tells-trump-your-message-is-excluding-people

How do American's view her war of words with him? Is she mostly praised or do people think she's in the wrong?

I'm disappointed. I think it's short sighted, and she has let herself become a pawn between AOC, Schumer and the White House. The team didn't represent the left, or the right, it represented the US. You win, you go the seat of the US and are honored. I didn't like it when others got on their high horse (which is their right of course) and refused to go to the Obama White House. Respect the Office - even if you don't respect the man in it. It will provide a stronger precedent moving forward, and in the end, it's more divisive. Sports, especially National teams are a time to set aside personal differences and unite around something, and I think the aftermath has done the opposite. 

As far as Rapinoe herself, I love her. She is a great player, a team leader, and is a strong powerful voice for the LGBT community, and I applaud her for all that.  Allie Long tossing the flag on the ground to take a picture has probably upset as many, if not more, people than Rapinoe v Trump. Neither of those situations play in their favor to garner public support for their lawsuit of wages etc

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34 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

I'm disappointed. I think it's short sighted, and she has let herself become a pawn between AOC, Schumer and the White House. The team didn't represent the left, or the right, it represented the US. You win, you go the seat of the US and are honored. I didn't like it when others got on their high horse (which is their right of course) and refused to go to the Obama White House. Respect the Office - even if you don't respect the man in it. It will provide a stronger precedent moving forward, and in the end, it's more divisive. Sports, especially National teams are a time to set aside personal differences and unite around something, and I think the aftermath has done the opposite. 

As far as Rapinoe herself, I love her. She is a great player, a team leader, and is a strong powerful voice for the LGBT community, and I applaud her for all that.  Allie Long tossing the flag on the ground to take a picture has probably upset as many, if not more, people than Rapinoe v Trump. Neither of those situations play in their favor to garner public support for their lawsuit of wages etc

Disagree completely; Trump's infantile rhetoric suggests by not attending people are somehow disrespecting the country and the flag, they're not, they are just being true to themselves and not giving tacit approval to the man in charge who they fundamentally disagree with. In "the land of the free" that's their right surely? Googling for who refused to go see Obama there seem to be very few in comparison to the long list of those giving Trump a wide berth.

Had I been a member of the England cricket team (in my dreams) I wouldn't have gone to the reception with Theresa May today; well actually I might have done as she's a done deal but no way would I go if it had've been in a couple of weeks time and Johnson was in residence.

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16 hours ago, MikeO said:

Disagree completely; Trump's infantile rhetoric suggests by not attending people are somehow disrespecting the country and the flag, they're not, they are just being true to themselves and not giving tacit approval to the man in charge who they fundamentally disagree with. In "the land of the free" that's their right surely? Googling for who refused to go see Obama there seem to be very few in comparison to the long list of those giving Trump a wide berth.

Had I been a member of the England cricket team (in my dreams) I wouldn't have gone to the reception with Theresa May today; well actually I might have done as she's a done deal but no way would I go if it had've been in a couple of weeks time and Johnson was in residence.

That's where we have a different opinion. For you accepting or declining is a political decision that you would determine on the party currently holding the office. For me, it should transcend that. If you are the face of the National Team, and one of the main slogans that is used is "One Nation, One Team" and you are collectively invited to be honored in your nation's capitol, by the head of the executive branch to the Oval Office, or Rose Garden (something 99.9% of Americans will never be invited to do), you go. Even if the current occupant often is an infantile douche (and he is), it's not about you, it's not about him - you are going to be recognized for all of us who supported you, it's for us too. It's not tacit approval of the current occupant or his policies, or it shouldn't be. The Trump's. AOC's and Schumer's are politicians, they will politicize a ham sandwich - don't be the ham sandwich.

To the land of the free/their right question - I say yes, of course they have that right. I'd also say that just by having a right doesn't mean it should always be exercised because it can be. That applies to every right and every individual. I would assume that you would agree with that in the macro sense, though we may disagree on the micro.  I'm saying there is a time and a place, and I don't think this is it - which is MY opinion. That was the original question, and that's my thoughts :) 

I am not sure if that is a cultural difference on how we view/celebrate our national teams, or simply a difference in viewpoint - or some of both.  It doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. In this case, I'm miffed at all involved. Can't I/we just enjoy celebrating the athletic accomplishments without it becoming a political shitshow like everything else seemingly does?

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42 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

I am not sure if that is a cultural difference on how we view/celebrate our national teams, or simply a difference in viewpoint - or some of both.  It doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. In this case, I'm miffed at all involved. Can't I/we just enjoy celebrating the athletic accomplishments without it becoming a political shitshow like everything else seemingly does?

Why do you have to go to the White House to celebrate an athletic accomplishment? That's all politics too.

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40 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

That's where we have a different opinion. For you accepting or declining is a political decision that you would determine on the party currently holding the office. For me, it should transcend that. If you are the face of the National Team, and one of the main slogans that is used is "One Nation, One Team" and you are collectively invited to be honored in your nation's capitol, by the head of the executive branch to the Oval Office, or Rose Garden (something 99.9% of Americans will never be invited to do), you go. Even if the current occupant often is an infantile douche (and he is), it's not about you, it's not about him - you are going to be recognized for all of us who supported you, it's for us too. It's not tacit approval of the current occupant or his policies, or it shouldn't be. The Trump's. AOC's and Schumer's are politicians, they will politicize a ham sandwich - don't be the ham sandwich.

To the land of the free/their right question - I say yes, of course they have that right. I'd also say that just by having a right doesn't mean it should always be exercised because it can be. That applies to every right and every individual. I would assume that you would agree with that in the macro sense, though we may disagree on the micro.  I'm saying there is a time and a place, and I don't think this is it - which is MY opinion. That was the original question, and that's my thoughts :) 

I am not sure if that is a cultural difference on how we view/celebrate our national teams, or simply a difference in viewpoint - or some of both.  It doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. In this case, I'm miffed at all involved. Can't I/we just enjoy celebrating the athletic accomplishments without it becoming a political shitshow like everything else seemingly does?

Well constructed argument but it doesn't change my mind. Probably all the German medallists from the 1936 Berlin Olympics had a drop of schnapps at the Reichstag with their populist, racist, xenophobic chancellor (and if they'd refused their fate would've been worse that suffering some Twitter rant). Nowadays people have more information on how to form their views and I think they should be free to express them in whatever (peaceful) way they see fit.

I think there are cross pond differences though, we don't do any of the, "pledge allegiance to the flag" or hand on heart during anthem stuff. Looking on streetview it seems every other house over there has a stars and stripes hanging whereas you very rarely see a union flag over here.

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Well constructed argument but it doesn't change my mind. Probably all the German medallists from the 1936 Berlin Olympics had a drop of schnapps at the Reichstag with their populist, racist, xenophobic chancellor (and if they'd refused their fate would've been worse that suffering some Twitter rant). Nowadays people have more information on how to form their views and I think they should be free to express them in whatever (peaceful) way they see fit.

I think there are cross pond differences though, we don't do any of the, "pledge allegiance to the flag" or hand on heart during anthem stuff. Looking on streetview it seems every other house over there has a stars and stripes hanging whereas you very rarely see a union flag over here.

Nope, just wanted you to understand my perspective. As in "ok, I get where you're coming from - I don't agree - but I get it". And yes, I would agree on the pond differences on patriotism, they are manifested in very different ways. Not better/worse, just different. Lets not forget, we're still kinda new, you have pubs that predate our nation by 500 years! 

2 hours ago, sibdane said:

Why do you have to go to the White House to celebrate an athletic accomplishment? That's all politics too.

Tradition really. Probably somewhat ties into Mike's point about cross pond differences.

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