nyblue23 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 On 9/25/2017 at 10:37, Cornish Steve said: The level of patriotism in the US has never sat right with me. Demanding that everyone stand for the anthem or place hand on heart for the pledge, at every sport event, school event, political event, etc., is way over the top. If you look at it objectively, it's the kind of thing we expect of, say, North Korea. Didn't think of it immediately, but there's a really interesting read on this by a guy named Kevin Kruse called "One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America." Seems a lot of the patriotism we Americans were instilled with growing up grew from an alliance between prominent evangelicals and corporate America. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Also, I've been very pleasantly surprised by the NFL's reaction to all this. Those of you who have spent a lot of time in the US have probably noticed that the largest demographic who goes mad for American football are blue-blooded, working-class, gun-toting, mostly white Americans. Obviously, as it's the most popular sport in the US, this is just a cross-section of fans, but it is the loudest and most vocal. That NFL owners, some of whom are personal friends with the oompa loompa excuse for a president, would come together to show solidarity over issues of race, even after blackballing Colin Kaepernick for doing the same, and despite the averse reactions from their core fan base, shows the influence that players can have in shifting discourse. Meanwhile, our soccer federation won't budge: https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2017/9/26/16371086/us-soccer-stands-by-policy-standing-national-anthem-rapinoe-kneeling Kind of an interesting juxtaposition given the predominant demographic of world football fans vs American football fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I'm guessing NASCAR doesn't have a big black following. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/us-sport/donald-trump-president-protest-nascar-sack-drivers-twitter-nfl-take-a-knee-a7965846.html Unsurprising. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/nascar-national-anthem-protest-fired-bill-lester-african-american-drivers-not-embraced-cnn-donald-trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 36 minutes ago, nyblue23 said: Didn't think of it immediately, but there's a really interesting read on this by a guy named Kevin Kruse called "One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America." Seems a lot of the patriotism we Americans were instilled with growing up grew from an alliance between prominent evangelicals and corporate America. i have that book, terrifying yet well researched. nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, MikeO said: I'm guessing NASCAR doesn't have a big black following. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/us-sport/donald-trump-president-protest-nascar-sack-drivers-twitter-nfl-take-a-knee-a7965846.html Unsurprising. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/nascar-national-anthem-protest-fired-bill-lester-african-american-drivers-not-embraced-cnn-donald-trump I honestly didn't know there had ever been a black NASCAR driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Why are black people in US feeling oppressed, I don't understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, Haiku said: Why are black people in US feeling oppressed, I don't understand? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/11/chokehold-police-black-men-paul-butler-race-america Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 38 minutes ago, Haiku said: Why are black people in US feeling oppressed, I don't understand? I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 26 minutes ago, nyblue23 said: I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not. Haiku is from Bulgaria, I took it at face value; not that I'm anti-Bulgarian or suggesting they're daft, just things may be reported less/differently there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nyblue23 Posted September 28, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Haiku said: Why are black people in US feeling oppressed, I don't understand? The U.S. only desegregated, legally, in the early 1970s, just over 40 years ago. Even with legal desegregation, the history of housing discrimination, the start of the war on drugs (not so subtly a war against black folks [see powder cocaine vs. crack cocaine use and arrests]), the mass incarceration of black men, and systemic bias in nearly all facets of American life (education, policing, housing, job discrimination, etc.), have seriously stunted the prospects of many black Americans, many of whom were still reeling from generations of cyclical poverty after the end of American slavery only a century before. More recently, attention has been drawn specifically to police discrimination against black men, as the ubiquity of camera phones and police cameras have brought to light the police' use of extreme force, especially as it relates to the deaths of many innocent and almost exclusively unarmed black men in police custody (see Mike Brown, Alton Sterling, Philando Castile, Walter Scott, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, etc.). That's what Colin Kaepernick began protesting by first sitting, then kneeling during the playing of the national anthem before NFL games, and that is what Trump is reacting against. There has also been a dramatic rise in the number of avowed white supremacists, many of whom voted for Trump based on his rhetoric of fear (many white Americans are fearful that they are losing out to minorities as the battle for racial equality becomes more real), and the proliferation of these supremacists concurrent with Trump's presidency (not a coincidence) has left them empowered to organize in a way that bigots have not felt comfortable doing since desegregation. This is obviously a very simplistic answer to a question which can only be answered fully with an immersive study of 300 years of racial oppression in this country, but hopefully it gives you an idea. Bailey, holystove, Sibdane and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bailey Posted September 28, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 There is a pretty apt line from a J Cole track about this: "American hypocrisy, oh let me count the ways They came here seeking freedom and they end up owning slaves" MikeO, pete0, nyblue23 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 14 hours ago, Bailey said: There is a pretty apt line from a J Cole track about this: "American hypocrisy, oh let me count the ways They came here seeking freedom and they end up owning slaves" Love me some J Cole. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 This is right up there with his most idiotic statements; on Puerto Rico... "This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41452995 Bailey and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 1 hour ago, MikeO said: This is right up there with his most idiotic statements; on Puerto Rico... "This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41452995 He's been slow to help them, slow to lift the Jones act to allow foreign shipping, and hinted that Puerto Ricans brought this on themselves. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect we're going to hear some anti-Hispanic rhetoric soon. He's not acting as if Puerto Ricans are American citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 He seems to be trying to create some form of isolation from the rest of the world, he doesn't want USA to part of a better world if it means spending money to help others to flourish, even his environmental decisions are based on what it might cost short term, not long term for the planet. He's definitely pushing for a them and us society which the supremacist in America are revelling in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Palfy said: He seems to be trying to create some form of isolation from the rest of the world, he doesn't want USA to part of a better world if it means spending money to help others to flourish, even his environmental decisions are based on what it might cost short term, not long term for the planet. He's definitely pushing for a them and us society which the supremacist in America are revelling in. spot on, it's scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Jerry Jones sounds a right pussy, obviously been got at. Forcing people to show their "patriotism" is, as someone said before, what you expect in North Korea. "The land of the free" but do what you're told. markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cornish Steve Posted October 9, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, MikeO said: Jerry Jones sounds a right pussy, obviously been got at. Forcing people to show their "patriotism" is, as someone said before, what you expect in North Korea. "The land of the free" but do what you're told. It's quite ridiculous. These demonstrations are in no way insulting the flag or the armed forces; they are protesting the despicable way in which minorities are sometimes treated and the discrimination they face day to day. Everyone gets up in arms when protests become violent, but this is a very peaceful way to protest. Clearly, no one is willing to entertain any type of protest. Yesterday, this whole thing with the VP walking out of a football game was an obvious stunt. The president tweeted that he told his VP to do this. In that case, the two of them should pay from their own personal funds the cost of the VP's flight and security detail to Indiana. How dare they waste the public purse in this way. Sibdane, MikeO, Romey 1878 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 By the way, this whole flag thing puts me (and other non-citizens) in an awkward situation. Whenever we're in a crowd or audience where everyone is expected to pledge allegiance to the flag or sing the national anthem, I respectfully stand, stay silent, and keep my hands behind my back. Occasionally this earns a glance or two, but no-one says anything. In the current climate, I expect to be challenged about it. The response is easy: "It's not my flag." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: By the way, this whole flag thing puts me (and other non-citizens) in an awkward situation. Whenever we're in a crowd or audience where everyone is expected to pledge allegiance to the flag or sing the national anthem, I respectfully stand, stay silent, and keep my hands behind my back. Occasionally this earns a glance or two, but no-one says anything. In the current climate, I expect to be challenged about it. The response is easy: "It's not my flag." i saw a couple people at a basketball game didn't stand and a jackass woman poured her beer all over them for "not being merican". i would recommend a poncho if you attend sporting events steve Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 On 09/10/2017 at 16:22, Cornish Steve said: By the way, this whole flag thing puts me (and other non-citizens) in an awkward situation. Whenever we're in a crowd or audience where everyone is expected to pledge allegiance to the flag or sing the national anthem, I respectfully stand, stay silent, and keep my hands behind my back. Occasionally this earns a glance or two, but no-one says anything. In the current climate, I expect to be challenged about it. The response is easy: "It's not my flag." You now get kicked out of school if you don't. http://www.skysports.com/nfl/news/12040/11078613/four-high-school-students-suspended-from-football-over-failure-to-stand-for-us-anthem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 Astonishing. It's a peaceful demonstration... Americans (and everyone else) should have a right to protest as long as it's not hurting anyone else. Making people stand for "the country and the flag" and punishing them if they don't reeks of a dictatorship. It's way too controlling. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 Can't they find another way to protest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, johnh said: Can't they find another way to protest? They're already protesting in the most peaceful manner possible I think; not sure what alternatives they have. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 This gave me a good laugh. He can barely string sentences together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 Who is the only country to ever use them Don? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41613314 markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 17 hours ago, MikeO said: Who is the only country to ever use them Don? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41613314 The circumstances were rather different, though, and many would argue their use saved many lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 21 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said: The circumstances were rather different, though, and many would argue their use saved many lives. You could make an argument for the first one possibly but was the second one really needed? Serious question because I don't know the answer; I'm no expert on WW2. Fact remains though that while a select few nations are considered "grown up" enough to have them are they really in a position to demand that other countries don't? It's, "do as I say not do as I do". Everyone needs to dismantle them imo. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 22 hours ago, tonkaroost said: Astonishing. It's a peaceful demonstration... Americans (and everyone else) should have a right to protest as long as it's not hurting anyone else. Making people stand for "the country and the flag" and punishing them if they don't reeks of a dictatorship. It's way too controlling. Supported in Germany. Nice one. Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 surprising how Trump ever married twice if he refuses to go down on one knee. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.