US Politics/Biden Presidency (Trump-free zone)

[johnh]

4 hours ago, MikeO said:

You could make an argument for the first one possibly but was the second one really needed? Serious question because I don't know the answer; I'm no expert on WW2. Fact remains though that while a select few nations are considered "grown up" enough to have them are they really in a position to demand that other countries don't? It's, "do as I say not do as I do".

Everyone needs to dismantle them imo.

I have often wondered why the second A bomb was dropped on Nagasaki.  The Japanese didn't surrender after the first but three days wasn't a lot of time. I think the first bomb should have been dropped on one of the many Japanese islands as an example.  This would have significantly reduced the loss of civilian life.  The Japanese could then have been given the choice of surrender or more bombs on the mainland.

The fact is, that no other A bombs have been used in the last seventy odd years, in spite of several countries having the capability.  I think that this is reasonable proof of the success of the nuclear weapon deterrent.  To allow the proliferation of nuclear weapons, particularly to countries who produce suicide bombers, seems to me to be asking for trouble. 

Dismantling sounds attractive but involves a high degree of trust.  Considering some of the countries involved,  it would be sensible to invest in a fall-out shelter.

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeO]

17 minutes ago, johnh said:

I have often wondered why the second A bomb was dropped on Nagasaki.  The Japanese didn't surrender after the first but three days wasn't a lot of time. I think the first bomb should have been dropped on one of the many Japanese islands as an example.  This would have significantly reduced the loss of civilian life.  The Japanese could then have been given the choice of surrender or more bombs on the mainland.

The fact is, that no other A bombs have been used in the last seventy odd years, in spite of several countries having the capability.  I think that this is reasonable proof of the success of the nuclear weapon deterrent.  To allow the proliferation of nuclear weapons, particularly to countries who produce suicide bombers, seems to me to be asking for trouble. 

Dismantling sounds attractive but involves a high degree of trust.  Considering some of the countries involved,  it would be sensible to invest in a fall-out shelter.

First para is a good point. not something I'd ever thought of.

Not sure however that the fact that people have the capability causes the lack of use; I know we talked about MAD (mutually assured destruction) in the Cold War which probably applied when there are just two sides. But now it's a bit like suggesting if both parties in an argument have guns/knives/pointed sticks then neither will use them because they're in fear of retribution.

Dismantling would require a large degree of trust and a lot of policing from the UN; but it's surely the best way forward for the human race. Nuclear weapons are lose/lose; make them and they cost your economy billions, use them and wipe out the human race.

[MikeO]

Interesting interview this I thought; whatever your views on her she expresses herself in an intelligent and articulate manner. How in the World the US chose Trump ahead of her will baffle me until my dying day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05k02c7

[markjazzbassist]

you know you're a shit president when the former title holder for shittiest president gives a speech denouncing you.  

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/19/558788556/george-w-bush-slams-bigotry-politics-of-populism-that-led-to-trump-sanders

[MikeO]

This is a bit old (re confederate statues) but I just found it and I think it's interesting. Specially as Trump has commented on them again today the numpty...

 

[nyblue23]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

This is a bit old (re confederate statues) but I just found it and I think it's interesting. Specially as Trump has commented on them again today the numpty...

 

Unreal that we have a president who's worried about saving confederate statues. Doesn't even make sense. Exonerate and eulogize people who actively and violently fought against the U.S. while on the same hand consistently call for the heads of those who peacefully protest for its advancement.

[Sibdane]

You literally can't even keep up with all of the scandals. I don't know how he hasn't been kicked out. I still don't see him making it the full-term.

[markjazzbassist]

they're gonna get this tax reform passed.  massive cuts for businesses and rich people, paid for by the middle and lower class.  will add 1.5 trillion to the national deficit.  how anything thinks republicans are for decreasing the deficit is beyond me, they spend just as much as the democrats do with this false guise of "cutting the deficit".  at least the dems are honest about it.  

 

and fuck this tax reform.  i'm trying to buy a house and the mortgage interest tax credits are gonna be gone, my child care tax credits gone, fuck you trump.  figure you to ruin it for the hard working middle class like myself.  

[Sibdane]

I also don't understand tax cuts by Republicans when they're also pushing for more troops and a greater military presence. Those are paid for by... taxes.

So let's cut revenue and increase spending... that makes sense.

[markjazzbassist]

1 minute ago, tonkaroost said:

I also don't understand tax cuts by Republicans when they're also pushing for more troops and a greater military presence. Those are paid for by... taxes.

So let's cut revenue and increase spending... that makes sense.

they say the tax cuts will increase growth by 9%.  there has never been growth that big, most economists says 2-3%.  which really means well be fucked with another recession once trump is done.  

[Cornish Steve]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

they're gonna get this tax reform passed.  massive cuts for businesses and rich people, paid for by the middle and lower class.  will add 1.5 trillion to the national deficit.  how anything thinks republicans are for decreasing the deficit is beyond me, they spend just as much as the democrats do with this false guise of "cutting the deficit".  at least the dems are honest about it.  

 

and fuck this tax reform.  i'm trying to buy a house and the mortgage interest tax credits are gonna be gone, my child care tax credits gone, fuck you trump.  figure you to ruin it for the hard working middle class like myself.  

Mark, they are also thinking of ending, or severely restricting, the 401(k) program. Just let that one sink in. (To those who've not heard of it, it's the retirement program for most Americans. Basically, you put aside a percentage of your annual income, tax-free, and use those funds when you retire. President Trump, apparently, wants to stop tax-free contributions or limit them to $2,000/year, instead of the ~$25,000 allowed today. This would hurt the middle-class very big time.)

And what about the poorest members of the population who pay no taxes in the first place? Tax cuts bring no immediate relief to them.

[Cornish Steve]

We're now on the president's blacklist, folks.

This could really hurt the tourism industry: Britons will simply go elsewhere.

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/travel-new-security-measures-airport-us-flights-latest-trump-administration-a8020266.html

[markjazzbassist]

13 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Mark, they are also thinking of ending, or severely restricting, the 401(k) program. Just let that one sink in. (To those who've not heard of it, it's the retirement program for most Americans. Basically, you put aside a percentage of your annual income, tax-free, and use those funds when you retire. President Trump, apparently, wants to stop tax-free contributions or limit them to $2,000/year, instead of the ~$25,000 allowed today. This would hurt the middle-class very big time.)

And what about the poorest members of the population who pay no taxes in the first place? Tax cuts bring no immediate relief to them.

yeah i just heard about the 401k thing too, go figure that's my retirement plan and what i contribute to.  he is literally ruining everything.

[johnh]

16 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Mark, they are also thinking of ending, or severely restricting, the 401(k) program. Just let that one sink in. (To those who've not heard of it, it's the retirement program for most Americans. Basically, you put aside a percentage of your annual income, tax-free, and use those funds when you retire. President Trump, apparently, wants to stop tax-free contributions or limit them to $2,000/year, instead of the ~$25,000 allowed today. This would hurt the middle-class very big time.)

And what about the poorest members of the population who pay no taxes in the first place? Tax cuts bring no immediate relief to them.

Steve

Don't quite understand the above?  Point one talks about the elimination of a tax break for the middle-class.  Point 2 talks about tax cuts being of no benefit to the poorer members.

What are the tax cuts and do they offset or compensate for the 401(k) program?

[markjazzbassist]

47 minutes ago, johnh said:

Steve

Don't quite understand the above?  Point one talks about the elimination of a tax break for the middle-class.  Point 2 talks about tax cuts being of no benefit to the poorer members.

What are the tax cuts and do they offset or compensate for the 401(k) program?

tax cuts are for high earners, businesses.  middle class pay the same (although eliminate tax credits, well pay more), poor taxes go up plus credits away so they really go up.

 

401k is voluntary retirement savings.  for instance i contribute 4% of every paycheck and my company if i stay for 5 years will retroactively match 4% as long as i contribute that much or more.  they are saying they want the cap on contributions (now we can give up to 25k a year, they want that lessened) on that to be lowered a ton, essentially making the middle/lower class poorer in retirement so robber barons like himself who have lots of money can take advantage of us poor folks.

 

there are no offsets for the tax cuts.  they will create a 1.5 trillion dollar deficit.  the repubs say the offset is that the tax cuts will create such amazing growth, jobs opportunities the economy will magically grow from it's standard 2/3 percent to a whopping 9%, that will cover it.  pure fantasy.  deeper in debt, another recession will be looming.

[johnh]

Thanks for clarifying Mark.

[Bailey]

On 27/10/2017 at 17:27, markjazzbassist said:

tax cuts are for high earners, businesses.  middle class pay the same (although eliminate tax credits, well pay more), poor taxes go up plus credits away so they really go up.

 

401k is voluntary retirement savings.  for instance i contribute 4% of every paycheck and my company if i stay for 5 years will retroactively match 4% as long as i contribute that much or more.  they are saying they want the cap on contributions (now we can give up to 25k a year, they want that lessened) on that to be lowered a ton, essentially making the middle/lower class poorer in retirement so robber barons like himself who have lots of money can take advantage of us poor folks.

 

there are no offsets for the tax cuts.  they will create a 1.5 trillion dollar deficit.  the repubs say the offset is that the tax cuts will create such amazing growth, jobs opportunities the economy will magically grow from it's standard 2/3 percent to a whopping 9%, that will cover it.  pure fantasy.  deeper in debt, another recession will be looming.

Things like this just seem illogical and overly complicated (aside from being damaging to the majority of the population). 

[holystove]

Indictment Day!

 

[markjazzbassist]

so it begins

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/30/560786546/grand-jury-approves-first-charges-in-muellers-russia-investigation

[MikeO]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/03/donald-trump-twitter-account-internet-salutes-employee-last-day

[Chach]

retweeting Jayda Fransen anti-muslim porn.

[MikeO]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-42314700/after-weinstein-trump-sexual-misconduct-accusers-demand-action

[MikeO]

This is good news.

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

This is good news.

It really is quite a symbolic result.

[MikeO]

45 minutes ago, tonkaroost said:

It really is quite a symbolic result.

Has Trump tweeted his congratulations to Doug Jones yet?

Oh he has! 

With the rider that he knew it was going to happen all along.

 

[Matt]

He’s such a colossal fuckwit

[MikeO]

12 minutes ago, Matt said:

He’s such a colossal fuckwit

He was right about one thing (first sentence).

 

[Sibdane]

58 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Has Trump tweeted his congratulations to Doug Jones yet?

Oh he has! 

With the rider that he knew it was going to happen all along.

 

Amazing -- always finds a way to congratulate himself.

[Sibdane]

Meant to add that Alabama hasn't had a Democrat for a senator in about 25 years -- basically, you really had to fuck up not to win if running as a Republican.

[Quinn31]

If you had told me that we'd elect Donald Trump to the Presidency and a Democrat to the Senate from Alabama a few years ago.... I would've lost everything on a bet.