Crystal Palace (Away) Wednesday April 13

[Hafnia]

Ok I give in , Roberto is doing a fantastic job and we have moved forward from the dark days of top 7 finishes,the league table has just been telling porkies for the past 2 years!

 

 

 

 

 

No one is saying that Martinez is doing a fantastic job, nearly everyone wants him gone - I don't understand how critiquing Moyes time at Everton has any relevance to Martinez's job.

 

Moyes "left" us - we didn't get rid of him to take a gamble on Roberto.

 

I wanted a change of manager years before Moyes left. He wasn't going to get us relegated but he wasn't going to win us anything and to be perfectly honest I got tired of him dampening expectations in order to justify his top 4 wages vs top 10 expectations.

 

For every good performance there was a dour Bolton wanderers or a Benfica defeat which left fans grey in the faces.

 

The days of Everton having a manager "tell us" what is good for a club like Everton are gone - most of us were around to see us win leagues and take on the best side in Europe and beat them. Lets not keep revisiting a manager who pocketed in excess of £25m in wages off us and won nothing.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

No one is saying that Martinez is doing a fantastic job, nearly everyone wants him gone - I don't understand how critiquing Moyes time at Everton has any relevance to Martinez's job.

 

Moyes "left" us - we didn't get rid of him to take a gamble on Roberto.

 

I wanted a change of manager years before Moyes left. He wasn't going to get us relegated but he wasn't going to win us anything and to be perfectly honest I got tired of him dampening expectations in order to justify his top 4 wages vs top 10 expectations.

 

For every good performance there was a dour Bolton wanderers or a Benfica defeat which left fans grey in the faces.

 

The days of Everton having a manager "tell us" what is good for a club like Everton are gone - most of us were around to see us win leagues and take on the best side in Europe and beat them. Lets not keep revisiting a manager who pocketed in excess of £25m in wages off us and won nothing.

You can critique Moyes all you want , my point was we have gone backwards under Roberto and the facts would bare that out

 

Feel free to disagree

[Hafnia]

You can critique Moyes all you want , my point was we have gone backwards under Roberto and the facts would bare that out

 

Feel free to disagree

 

to be specific - we went forwards and then backwards - pretty much like we did under Moyes.

 

Under Moyes we went 15th, then 7th in first full season then 17th, he then went to 4th then 11th then averaged 7th spot

 

Martinez - 5th first full season then 11th in second season and this is his 3rd season.

 

Moyes was more of a lengthy boring stagnation, Martinez has been an erratic fluctuation.

 

Either way both managers are unlikely to eclipse their better earlier achievements and for me neither will be mentioned in glowing terms when compared to any of the better managers in Everton history.

 

In my time watching Everton it has been Howard Kendall and Joe Royle that understood Everton and gave us times to be proud of. The rest meh - just not good enough.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hafnia

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

we went forwards and then backwards - pretty much like we did under Moyes.

Moyes took an ageing side that were constantly fighting relegation, in the first few years there were some ups and downs but he turned them into a consistent top 7 side. He did this despite having to sell his best players and he did it on a shoestring budget. His side was full of spirit and the players would run through brick walls for him The general consensus was his side were over achieving

 

Martinez inherited a top 7 side with one of the best defences in the division. He had a good first season , on the back of Moyes defence , and has turned us into a regular bottom half side with one of the worst defences in the division

 

Not only has he been able to keep his best players he has also been heavily backed financially to bring in new players. His side has no fight and the players seem uninterested The general consensus is that he ha massively under achieved

 

Again feel free to disagree

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

to be specific - we went forwards and then backwards - pretty much like we did under Moyes.

 

Under Moyes we went 15th, then 7th in first full season then 17th, he then went to 4th then 11th then averaged 7th spot

 

Martinez - 5th first full season then 11th in second season and this is his 3rd season.

 

Moyes was more of a lengthy boring stagnation, Martinez has been an erratic fluctuation.

 

Either way both managers are unlikely to eclipse their better earlier achievements and for me neither will be mentioned in glowing terms when compared to any of the better managers in Everton history.

 

In my time watching Everton it has been Howard Kendall and Joe Royle that understood Everton and gave us times to be proud of. The rest meh - just not good enough.

Moyes was here for over a decade and we have a lot to thank him for , he stabilised the club and got us back on our feet and I think history will look back kindly on him

 

However he hit the proverbial glass ceiling and couldn't take us any further. Whether or not he could have taken us to the next level if he had the require financial backing we will never know

 

He has served his purpose and we should move on, if the club really is going to have the financial clout we all hope Moshiri is going to provide then we should be aspiring for bigger and better things and that starts with a top class manager

 

So no, I don't want Moyes back and nor do I love him . I just appreciate what he did at the time.

I want us to make a statement of intent and appoint a big name like Mourinho and see the board back him financially

[Hafnia]

Moyes took an ageing side that were constantly fighting relegation, in the first few years there were some ups and downs but he turned them into a consistent top 7 side. He did this despite having to sell his best players and he did it on a shoestring budget. His side was full of spirit and the players would run through brick walls for him The general consensus was his side were over achieving

 

Martinez inherited a top 7 side with one of the best defences in the division. He had a good first season , on the back of Moyes defence , and has turned us into a regular bottom half side with one of the worst defences in the division

 

Not only has he been able to keep his best players he has also been heavily backed financially to bring in new players. His side has no fight and the players seem uninterested The general consensus is that he ha massively under achieved

 

Again feel free to disagree

Both managers took a side forward then backwards. That is a fact. You said martinez took us backwards... yes he has after taking us forwards which is what moyes did. That's a fact.

 

However you dress up thd ageing side etc etc the fact is that both managers are stuck in their ways and get sussed out. It seems like you feel the need to defend moyes as bring someone who was somehow a great manager for us. He did ok. That's it, he did ok and was found wanting when playing with the big boys. Not good enough for what we want everton to be.

 

Get a new manager in, if he isnt right then get rid and repeat the process. Look at spurs. Did they get to where they are by accepting mediocrity? No.

 

 

Enough of moyes, enough of Martinez. They are multi millionaires and we ain't won a trophy in over 20 years - 11 of those under moyes.

[Guest rusty747]

Moyes is history and irrelevant to today's problems.

 

Martinez is today's problem. He has to go, and soon.

[Shukes]

If you are happy for us to be a cup side and watch us slide into the Championship then thats fine , you can enjoy watching us attractively shipping in goals for fun against the likes Brighton

 

Personally I just want us to be a good football team again

 

Oh and the missing piece in this jigsaw is the manager

I didn't say that at all....not in the slightest.

 

I also agree the missing piece could be the manager.

 

And I am willing to bet you £1000 we won't get relegated this season or next.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I didn't say that at all....not in the slightest.

 

I also agree the missing piece could be the manager.

 

And I am willing to bet you £1000 we won't get relegated this season or next.

We won't get relegated this season because there are 3 sides who are a lot worse than us

 

However if we continue on this downward spiral Martinez is taking us on I wouldn't rule it out next season

 

You take Roms goals out of this side and we are in big trouble

[Hafnia]

We won't get relegated this season because there are 3 sides who are a lot worse than us

 

However if we continue on this downward spiral Martinez is taking us on I wouldn't rule it out next season

 

You take Roms goals out of this side and we are in big trouble

 

Roms goals have been the difference between 8 points for the whole season (assuming that the person who played instead of him would not have scored any of his goals) - hardly a momentous amount considering how often people keep mentioning it..

 

You could argue and say that his 2 last 5 minute sitters against Watford and his penno miss against West Ham cost us 5 points. After all if we are going to praise him for the ones he scores what about holding him accountable for the ones he should have scored?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Both managers took a side forward then backwards. That is a fact. You said martinez took us backwards... yes he has after taking us forwards which is what moyes did. That's a fact.

 

However you dress up thd ageing side etc etc the fact is that both managers are stuck in their ways and get sussed out. It seems like you feel the need to defend moyes as bring someone who was somehow a great manager for us. He did ok. That's it, he did ok and was found wanting when playing with the big boys. Not good enough for what we want everton to be.

 

Get a new manager in, if he isnt right then get rid and repeat the process. Look at spurs. Did they get to where they are by accepting mediocrity? No.

 

 

Enough of moyes, enough of Martinez. They are multi millionaires and we ain't won a trophy in over 20 years - 11 of those under moyes.

I've never once said he was a great manager, I have said he did a great job at Everton , there is a difference

 

If I thought he was a great manager I would definitely want him back and I've already said we need to be aiming higher

 

I feel the need to defend the job he did here because people either have short memories or they try to rewrite history

 

We were on a course to be the next Man city/ Leeds/Sheffield Weds/ Forest and he turned it around

 

Some people want to erase that from memory , I choose to be grateful, it's that simple

 

 

When the Sky4 were in there pomp I don't think anyone was ever going to break that monopoly without significant financial backing , Moyes never got it and so I think he took us as far as can be reasonably expected

[pete0]

We were better than most teams just Walter Smith was a mad man. Steve Watson upfront whilst we had a fit striker on the bench. Moyes stabled the ship, and got a head start inheriting Rooney. Moyes got to fourth, and arguably should have been sacked any year after that for not reaching that high again. He was safe, he's had the easiest job in football and been paid a lot more than he should had.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Roms goals have been the difference between 8 points for the whole season (assuming that the person who played instead of him would not have scored any of his goals) - hardly a momentous amount considering how often people keep mentioning it..

 

You could argue and say that his 2 last 5 minute sitters against Watford and his penno miss against West Ham cost us 5 points. After all if we are going to praise him for the ones he scores what about holding him accountable for the ones he should have scored?

 

Which means we would be 17th in the table and no semi finals

 

So point proven

[Hafnia]

Which means we would be 17th in the table and no semi finals

 

So point proven

It proves absolutely nothing. You are "assuming" that if we had someone else playing up front instead like naismith, kone, Mirallas, or gerry that they would not have have scored a single goal...

 

The fact is Rom has been the main central striker all season so we would never know.

 

We could use the same argument that and say without Tim Howard's saves we would be bottom of the league.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hafnia

[Finn balor]

Another shit draw 1-1 rom late equaliser

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

It proves absolutely nothing. You are "assuming" that if we had someone else playing up front instead like naismith, kone, Mirallas, or gerry that they would not have have scored a single goal...

 

The fact is Rom has been the main central striker all season so we would never know.

 

We could use the same argument that and say without Tim Howard's saves we would be bottom of the league.

Come on Haf you're not that daft, take 25 goals out of any team and it will have an adverse effect . Villa have been shite for a while and once they lost Benteke they were relegated

 

I couldn't guarantee it but I'm as sure as is humanly possible that none of the players you have mentioned would have got anywhere near 25 goals this season

 

The fact those goals haven't won us more points is more of an inditement of how shite Martinez game management is. How many points would we have lost without his goals?

Edited April 11, 2016 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Shukes]

We won't get relegated this season because there are 3 sides who are a lot worse than us

 

However if we continue on this downward spiral Martinez is taking us on I wouldn't rule it out next season

 

You take Roms goals out of this side and we are in big trouble

You could be right, you could be wrong.

Take Rom out of the team and for all we k ow we could be champions league.

 

I have been an Everton fan long enough to realise that.....Lineker.

[Hafnia]

Come on Haf you're not that daft, take 25 goals out of any team and it will have an adverse effect . Villa have been shite for a while and once they lost Benteke they were relegated

 

I couldn't guarantee it but I'm as sure as is humanly possible that none of the players you have mentioned would have got anywhere near 25 goals this season

 

The fact those goals haven't won us more points is more of an inditement of how shite Martinez game management is

He has scored 25 goals... apparently as part of the most talented squad we have had in 30 years. Let's get it right scoring goals and going forward hasn't been a problem. Defending has.

 

Such was his lack of effort in the last few games I was tempted to spark the drivel thread back to life. In short for someone who wants to play in the champions league - he has looked a championship player

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hafnia

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

You could be right, you could be wrong.

Take Rom out of the team and for all we k ow we could be champions league.

 

I have been an Everton fan long enough to realise that.....Lineker.

That was an entirely different scenario , we had proven goal scorers all over the pitch before and after he left . I actually still blame Lineker for us losing out on the double

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

He has scored 25 goals... apparently as part of the most talented squad we have had in 30 years. Let's get it right scoring goals and going forward hasn't been a problem. Defending has.

I agree scoring hasn't been an issue , because we currently have one of the best forwards in Europe banging goals in

However take him out of the equation and carry on conceding at the rate we do and we are in trouble

 

Which was my point incidentally !

[Hafnia]

I agree scoring hasn't been an issue , because we currently have one of the best forwards in Europe banging goals in

However take him out of the equation and carry on conceding at the rate we do and we are in trouble

 

Which was my point incidentally !

Of course, he created all those goals on his own...

 

How have you rated him since he came out with his "I want to play in champions league" - personally I think his application and everything with it has been disgusting.

 

But hey we are so lucky to have this man child who makes Luis Suarez look like a lazy one trick pony.

 

 

I enjoy reading Michael Balls column... never very far off the mark. This is his view.the

 

"I thought Romelu Lukaku would come back after the international break, and after what he'd said, really firing and ready to prove a point.

 

But he has been really quiet .

 

 

Romelu Lukaku (third left) sees an effort on goal hit the crossbar at Vicarage Road

And his head seems somewhere else.

 

He didn't get into the game on Saturday, sure he needed better service but there is so much more he can be doing.

 

Lukaku doesn't anticipate things at the moment and seems half a yard off the pace."

 

Roughly interpreted "a lazy bastard who can't be arsed"

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hafnia

[Shukes]

That was an entirely different scenario , we had proven goal scorers all over the pitch before and after he left . I actually still blame Lineker for us losing out on the double

The point is that if you take one player out of the team, that player will be replaced.

Rooney. Bent.

You lose that one player and the team plays to different strengths.

 

Maybe four players chip on with more goals. Maybe one player steps up.

We just don't know.

 

With our 18 goal striker we are 14th, 14th!

Not his fault completely, but I blame the whole team. How many premier goals did he score when we finished 5th?

 

So would we finish higher if he scores less? We just don't know.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Shukes

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Of course, he created all those goals on his own...

 

How have you rated him since he came out with his "I want to play in champions league" - personally I think his application and everything with it has been disgusting.

 

But hey we are so lucky to have this man child who makes Luis Suarez look like a lazy one trick pony.

 

 

I enjoy reading Michael Balls column... never very far off the mark. This is his view.the

 

"I thought Romelu Lukaku would come back after the international break, and after what he'd said, really firing and ready to prove a point.

 

But he has been really quiet .

 

 

Romelu Lukaku (third left) sees an effort on goal hit the crossbar at Vicarage Road

And his head seems somewhere else.

 

He didn't get into the game on Saturday, sure he needed better service but there is so much more he can be doing.

 

Lukaku doesn't anticipate things at the moment and seems half a yard off the pace."

 

Roughly interpreted "a lazy bastard who can't be arsed"

How have Everton as a team played since then?

 

We have been piss poor and he has had zero service , yes he could and should have done more but the same can be said for the entire team . A point you persistently chose to ignore

[Hafnia]

How have Everton as a team played since then?

 

We have been piss poor and he has had zero service , yes he could and should have done more but the same can be said for the entire team . A point you persistently chose to ignore

Ah right, so when he scores it's because of him cos he carries us and when he's shite it's cos the team are shite?

 

I would actually go as far to say that along with barkley he has stood out like a bulldogs bollocks in terms of being bone idle lazy and not giving a toss. Thing is we weren't talking about barkley in the sense that we would be screwed without him... lukaku is exempt from any criticism even from the manager it seems.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

The point is that if you take one player out of the team, that player will be replaced.

Rooney. Bent.

You lose that one player and the team plays to different strengths.

 

Maybe four players chip on with more goals. Maybe one player steps up.

We just don't know.

 

With our 18 goal striker we are 14th, 14th!

Not his fault completely, but I blame the whole team. How many premier goals did he score when we finished 5th?

 

So would we finish higher if he scores less? We just don't know.

Again that's a totally different scenario, Bent could never fill Rooneys boots and he never did , but he had heart and ran his bollocks off

 

Behind him he had 10 other players willing to do the same . We were like a precursor for this current Leicester team.

 

We were a squad full of desire, togetherness and fight , we were masters of the 1-0 win . In short everything this current squad isn't

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Ah right, so when he scores it's because of him cos he carries us and when he's shite it's cos the team are shite?

 

I would actually go as far to say that along with barkley he has stood out like a bulldogs bollocks in terms of being bone idle lazy and not giving a toss. Thing is we weren't talking about barkley in the sense that we would be screwed without him... lukaku is exempt from any criticism even from the manager it seems.

Yet again , when have I ever said that?

 

Why do you feel the need to try and twist my words?

When I said " he could and should have done more" does that really sound like I am absolving him of any blame?

[MikeO]

Again that's a totally different scenario, Bent could never fill Rooneys boots and he never did , but he had heart and ran his bollocks off

 

Behind him he had 10 other players willing to do the same . We were like a precursor for this current Leicester team.

 

We were a squad full of desire, togetherness and fight , we were masters of the 1-0 win . In short everything this current squad isn't

 

Exactly what I said to Josh on Saturday.

[Matt]

He has scored 25 goals... apparently as part of the most talented squad we have had in 30 years. Let's get it right scoring goals and going forward hasn't been a problem. Defending has.

 

Such was his lack of effort in the last few games I was tempted to spark the drivel thread back to life. In short for someone who wants to play in the champions league - he has looked a championship player

agreed to a point, Rom has done his job but nearly no one else has especially the manager

[chalkpie]

[MikeO]

On the bright side the game tomorrow clashes with Masterchef, so if it's going badly I can always switch channels. Have a much better prediction record in that anyway .