Ronald Koeman

[Shukes]

Guys the 10m was a contract drawn up and offered by us.

We approached him for the position.

 

If he made us such a mess then let's get rid of the dross eh!

Lukaku

Gerry

Barry

Barkley ( most give him credit for bringing him through)

 

Let's also bring back Felli and give Man U their money back.

 

What I don't understand is that if he was SO bad, why haven't we made a significant improvement no we have a top manager after six months?

 

How many of Martinezs buys are our first team players that Koeman is having to put up with?

 

Niasse isn't

Cleverly isn't

Alcaraz has gone

 

Lukaku is

Robles is

[Paddock]

Guys the 10m was a contract drawn up and offered by us.

We approached him for the position.

 

If he made us such a mess then let's get rid of the dross eh!

Lukaku

Gerry

Barry

Barkley ( most give him credit for bringing him through)

 

Let's also bring back Felli and give Man U their money back.

 

What I don't understand is that if he was SO bad, why haven't we made a significant improvement no we have a top manager after six months?

 

How many of Martinezs buys are our first team players that Koeman is having to put up with?

 

Niasse isn't

Cleverly isn't

Alcaraz has gone

 

Lukaku is

Robles is

You can't give him credit for Barkley he mismanaged him badly, just left him to do what he wanted, no guidance. Geri? He's not done very well either has he Shukes. The only one we can give him credit for is Lukaku and Barry (to an extent)

 

Robles, Mcgeady, Alcaraz, Kone, Niasse, Cleverley just off the top of my ead are all dreadful players.

 

The reason we haven't improved dramatically is because of the calibre of players he's leftthe new regime with. Once Koemans had 4 windows that is when I expect to see a completely different side playing his way.

 

I would be exactly the same with any manager. He has to be given time. I can't believe people are forgetting how bad we were towards the end. Remember the Sunderland game and the Leicester game where we were humiliated twice live on telly?

Edited January 8, 2017 by Paddock

[EFC-Paul]

He gave an honest reply to what he was asked in my view and it's clear transfers are out of his hands so he said he basically hopes that the scouts can see what's needed to improve what shite he has at his disposal

 

Nothing wrong with that imo it isn't his squad he has talented players that will no doubt be in his plans but we need to improve massively, he's said what we all know tbh

 

As I've said he needs the next transfer window and we will see where we go from there, the clubs moving in the right direction as we've gathered from the AGM so hopefully the same is applied to the squad in the near future but the man needs time

[Shukes]

I do remember Pad, honestly I do.

But I also recognise that by then he had lost the players and that it took a year and a half.

 

Now we play the most boring football this club has ever played... sorry... in my generation. And we are humiliated pretty much every week.

 

Barkley has gone from his best season ever, to a bit part player that no one wants in six months.

 

Most of the players you mention above are t in the team, so we can't use those as an excuse for our poor showings now.

 

I am not calling for his head at all and I also want to see what he can do until the end of the season.

 

But for me a season is enough. If he can't turn it around with two transfer windows and a full season then he just is t good enough.

[Shukes]

Honesty.

The players did shit, I don't understand why they played like that.

 

Hmm refreshing isn't it?

 

I can do this job, it's easy.

 

So shukes, you managed to get Barcelona relegated in your first season.

 

Yes, I'm not sure what happened! They just played badly.

But I need more time.

 

Yes I know it's a completely different scenario and that we finished 11th last year....but our season was still alive by this time last year as well. And that was with pretty much the same players as last year.....with a supposed diabolical manager.

 

And with Koeman we are.....well, out of both cups at the first hurdle and nine points behind sixth place.

[MC11]

You can't give him credit for Barkley he mismanaged him badly, just left him to do what he wanted, no guidance. Geri? He's not done very well either has he Shukes. The only one we can give him credit for is Lukaku and Barry (to an extent)

Robles, Mcgeady, Alcaraz, Kone, Niasse, Cleverley just off the top of my ead are all dreadful players.

The reason we haven't improved dramatically is because of the calibre of players he's leftthe new regime with. Once Koemans had 4 windows that is when I expect to see a completely different side playing his way.

I would be exactly the same with any manager. He has to be given time. I can't believe people are forgetting how bad we were towards the end. Remember the Sunderland game and the Leicester game where we were humiliated twice live on telly?

Being honest here I've seen some absolute dross this season. Worse than Anything Martinez served up. An he was clown. Edited January 8, 2017 by MC11

[c1982]

Barkley has gone from his best season ever, to a bit part player that no one wants in six months.

 

 

 

Barkley was poor throughout the whole of 2016 bar a few bright performances. He was good up to December last season - games like the thrashing of Villa and Sunderland boosted his goals/assists stats - it was his most productive season in this aspect but I'd image most of it was done pre-December because this slump in form came long before Koeman took over.

[Shukes]

Barkley was poor throughout the whole of 2016 bar a few bright performances. He was good up to December last season - games like the thrashing of Villa and Sunderland boosted his goals/assists stats - it was his most productive season in this aspect but I'd image most of it was done pre-December because this slump in form came long before Koeman took over.

Agree but it was still his most productive season.

Same argument as Rom scoring a hat trick to boost a tally etc.

 

So let's single out Barkley.

What has Koeman done about his slump?

How has he managed him?

Have we seen results?

 

And this is my point.

Koeman hasn't been any better than Martinez.

Football is worse.

Again I highlight, hasn't, as I am not saying he won't get better. I just don't see the progress that others are seeing.

 

There's no fight or passion, guts or heart, nothing.

[Shukes]

For me this is honesty.

 

Klopp

If I pick the players they are ready.

If not it's my fault, not their fault.

[MC11]

Agree but it was still his most productive season.

Same argument as Rom scoring a hat trick to boost a tally etc.

So let's single out Barkley.

What has Koeman done about his slump?

How has he managed him?

Have we seen results?

And this is my point.

Koeman hasn't been any better than Martinez.

Football is worse.

Again I highlight, hasn't, as I am not saying he won't get better. I just don't see the progress that others are seeing.

There's no fight or passion, guts or heart, nothing.

Spot on this Shukes

[Hafnia]

Quite honestly there is no point debating it.... Martinez was not good enough. Did some good things and some pretty shit things.

 

Koeman hasn't improved us as much as I would hope.... if at all really.

 

It's not always about signings. Managers should be able to energise the team.... organise them etc. I don't see this.

[MC11]

Quite honestly there is no point debating it.... Martinez was not good enough. Did some good things and some pretty shit things.

Koeman hasn't improved us as much as I would hope.... if at all really.

It's not always about signings. Managers should be able to energise the team.... organise them etc. I don't see this.

Again spot on!

[Shukes]

Quite honestly there is no point debating it.... Martinez was not good enough. Did some good things and some pretty shit things.

 

Koeman hasn't improved us as much as I would hope.... if at all really.

 

It's not always about signings. Managers should be able to energise the team.... organise them etc. I don't see this.

Well put.

[Shukes]

MC you are a season ticket holder.

 

What do you see?

Is there anyone in the team trying to galvanise us?

Is there spirit?

What is it that we are missing so badly. I feel absolutely on the floor today.

[StevO]

Martinez had some of the nicest shoes I've ever seen. To call them clown shoes is just a travesty!

 

We need to improve under Koeman, and we will. I have faith in him, and in Steve Walsh.

 

Koeman has done a good job everywhere he's been, why would he suddenly turn into a bad manager?

[Palfy]

Quite honestly there is no point debating it.... Martinez was not good enough. Did some good things and some pretty shit things.

Koeman hasn't improved us as much as I would hope.... if at all really.

It's not always about signings. Managers should be able to energise the team.... organise them etc. I don't see this.

Most sensible thing said today, and what happens from here on is down to others, unless someone would like to organise a wholesale demonstration, but were not quite at that stage yet but not far off.

[MC11]

MC you are a season ticket holder.

What do you see?

Is there anyone in the team trying to galvanise us?

Is there spirit?

What is it that we are missing so badly. I feel absolutely on the floor today.

I see a team playing as individuals with no clear directions of how the manager wants them to play. Pretty much all over the place. Under Moyes and Martinez there was always structure, Koemans teams just seem to be Everyman for him self just go out there and chase after the ball and hoof it to Rom!

[johnh]

I only see the games on TV but it seems to me that Koeman analyses the opposition and tries to pick a team and tactics accordingly. I think this is why tactics and personnel change from game to game. I think he should decide on his best team and the tactics which suit that team best, and let the opposition worry about us.

[Palfy]

Koeman hasn't got the dressing room with him, they are for the most the same players as last season who bar sloppy defending and able to hold on to a lead still played some very good football.

We didn't hear or see any adverse reactions to Martinez's players after the first 5 games of the season when we were 2nd with 13 points.

Then we play Norwich he thinks that this is a gimme or Mickey mouse cup and makes changes and we get tonked, that knocked us out of our stride and from that point on he as constantly changed shape and personnel, even if a player had a good game next week he would be on the bench and you can see in the interaction between him and his players there's not a lot going on, if you look at the the relationship Klopp has with his players you can see they love him and would do anything for him the respect is so great.

Koeman has only him self to blame for the lack of football inability he is serving up week in week out and to blame the players and the previous manager for the last four and a half months is burying your head in the sand, he has to be responsible for our displays he sends his team out.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Palfy

[Bailey]

I see a team playing as individuals with no clear directions of how the manager wants them to play. Pretty much all over the place. Under Moyes and Martinez there was always structure, Koemans teams just seem to be Everyman for him self just go out there and chase after the ball and hoof it to Rom!

This is the problem for me. You want to see what we are trying to achieve even if we ultimately don't achieve it.

 

I don't like using this example but Klopp do came in across the park and whilst it didn't always work, you could see what he was trying to do. Players took time to adapt, he probably had to adapt his philosophy a little to cope with English conditions but you could see what he wanted to do. You could see the same when both Moyes and Martinez came here too.

 

I thought I could see the adaption against Spurs in week 1 but I haven't seen that since. We had glimpses against Arsenal and Liverpool but that was largely to run and tackle everything before lumping it towards Rom.

 

I get that he will want to bring in players that can suit his style better but I have no idea if the players we have suit the style he actually wants to play because I don't know what that is.

[nogs]

Quite honestly there is no point debating it.... Martinez was not good enough. Did some good things and some pretty shit things.

 

Koeman hasn't improved us as much as I would hope.... if at all really.

 

It's not always about signings. Managers should be able to energise the team.... organise them etc. I don't see this.

Exactly

 

Sent from my Fusion5 using Tapatalk

[nogs]

 

 

Koeman has done a good job everywhere he's been, why would he suddenly turn into a bad manager?

He hasn't though. He got Vitesse into Europe, won a double with Ajax then disappointed, and just about scraped a league win at PSV after a disastrous second half of season slump. AZ, Feyenoord, Benfica and Valencia all let him go for not doing enough.

 

His managerial record really isn't that special.

 

Sent from my Fusion5 using Tapatalk

[c1982]

I don't like using this example but Klopp do came in across the park and whilst it didn't always work, you could see what he was trying to do. Players took time to adapt, he probably had to adapt his philosophy a little to cope with English conditions but you could see what he wanted to do. You could see the same when both Moyes and Martinez came here too.

 

I thought I could see the adaption against Spurs in week 1 but I haven't seen that since. We had glimpses against Arsenal and Liverpool but that was largely to run and tackle everything before lumping it towards Rom.

 

 

1st half vs Spurs filled me with optimism but still then Koeman said we weren't fit enough. It's clear he didn't get his targets in to play this way in the summer. I think he's alluding to he's wanted Schneiderlin since the summer so why hasn't it been done yet? We should be doing better performance wise but I don't think he can be compared to Klopp as he inherited Coutinho, Lallana, Firminho, Sturridge, etc. in simple terms our squad isn't good enough - RS have spent hundreds of millions on that squad over a sustained period - how Moyes closed that gap was quite incredible really. On the Moyes comparison - the expectations were so low when he came and the Prem was very different to what it is now with sustained investment from the current top 6. Regarding Martinez - he had the solid foundations Moyes built and was able to add the missing piece in Lukaku (obviously Barry and McCarthy were top signings too).

 

I think Koeman's comments yesterday were aimed at player recruitment - we didn't get it right in the summer and I think he's putting a message out that we'll continue like this without strengthening.

 

I can completely see why people are frustrated/doubting Koeman but to all those people do you honestly think this squad is anywhere good enough?

 

Personally I think we need to upgrade the following...

 

Stek/Joel

Jags/Mori/Oviedo

Gibson/Cleverley/Geri/Lennon

Kone/Niasse

 

I'd sell all bar the keepers and would only keep Stek as back-up and loan Joel out. That's a very damning assessment on how weak our squad is - considering many of these are 1st teamers show how big a job Koeman has got.

[c1982]

Personally I think we need to upgrade the following...

 

Stek/Joel

Jags/Mori/Oviedo

Gibson/Cleverley/Geri/Lennon

Kone/Niasse

 

I'd sell all bar the keepers and would only keep Stek as back-up and loan Joel out. That's a very damning assessment on how weak our squad is - considering many of these are 1st teamers show how big a job Koeman has got.

I should add to that we've missed Besic, McCarthy and Bolassie throughout the season weakening and already weak squad further. It doesn't leave a lot at all.

[Gwlad]

I get the feeling that Koeman feels he's made a terrible mistake by coming to us. No passion in the man. Given his record and coaching staff he should have been able to make something of what he inherited at least not getting tipped out of 2 domestic cups without some sort of fight. Players have to take responsibility but it's up to him to motivate them and I don't see that at all.

[Shy_Talk]

On a serious note and please don't take this the wrong way but threatening to break someones jaw because you don't like the way they manage a football team is at best juvenile and pathetic and at worst a breach of the malicious communications act 1988.

 

Martinez had his flaws as has been stated, but in his first season in charge we played the best football I have seen Everton play in 20 years. He was also a thoroughly decent and honorable man. Ultimately he was not able to balance attack and defence and had to go. To be full of such anger and bile towards him is worrying. I do suggest you get the anger management help you so clearly need.

 

As for Koeman I rate him as a manager, I think he needs time. We have to remember that this is not his squad, and some of the players here are clearly not up to the standard required. I think the team he put out today was right. I agree with those who say he should have left the team as it was at half time as we were apparently on top and sounded like we would go on to score.

 

But Gerry came on and we did score. The failure of the team to hold on to this lead was due to the personel, we lack quality midfielders, we lack creative wingers, we lack a back up to Lukaku, we lack competition for Baines and Coleman. Hopefully some of these will be addressed in this window, and completed in the next.

 

You point out the threat then pal.

[Shy_Talk]

On a serious note and please don't take this the wrong way but threatening to break someones jaw because you don't like the way they manage a football team is at best juvenile and pathetic and at worst a breach of the malicious communications act 1988.

 

Martinez had his flaws as has been stated, but in his first season in charge we played the best football I have seen Everton play in 20 years. He was also a thoroughly decent and honorable man. Ultimately he was not able to balance attack and defence and had to go. To be full of such anger and bile towards him is worrying. I do suggest you get the anger management help you so clearly need.

 

As for Koeman I rate him as a manager, I think he needs time. We have to remember that this is not his squad, and some of the players here are clearly not up to the standard required. I think the team he put out today was right. I agree with those who say he should have left the team as it was at half time as we were apparently on top and sounded like we would go on to score.

 

But Gerry came on and we did score. The failure of the team to hold on to this lead was due to the personel, we lack quality midfielders, we lack creative wingers, we lack a back up to Lukaku, we lack competition for Baines and Coleman. Hopefully some of these will be addressed in this window, and completed in the next.

 

And thats an utter joke as well. He lied to the support, he lied to his players and he lied to himself. He took a very large chance on some no hoper from the Ukraine league, didn't have the decency to admit his mistake, continued with his stupidity, eventually got sacked then came back at the club that had offered him so much whilst actually delivering a downward spiral of despair and took £11.25 million he hadn't come close to earning from our club.

 

Compare, Moyes took Rooney and his cronies to court over allegations in whichever of his books he'd had written, Moyes won and gave his damages to the former players foundation.

 

Decent and honourable remember.

 

Although I didn't like the bad medicine of 'knife to a gunfight' stuff Moyes talked, the chap that took over from him repeated and maintained that there was a 'great philosophy' to our losing play, that we showed 'marvellous intensity' in games we'd lost from winning positions, that the 'spirit and belief' was there in abundance as he oversaw the worst home league record in our entire history.

 

The apologists point to a couple of semi finals, now iirc we should have shut City down at Goodison (first leg) but the lack of concentration and stand-off nature of our tactics let them into a game that we could and should have sewn up. A 2-0 lead going to their place was a much different proposition. Though it was for the best because he soiled his pants every time he faced the RS (bar that first derby with something like Moyes' defence). Which brings me neatly onto the second semi final. Our manager after Moyes had allowed a penalty taker problem to creep into the side, we'd had the issue with Mirallas, and then some pushing and shoving between Lukaku as well, so in a game where our captain hand balls a certain goal off the line that isn'tpunished by either penalty, red card or indeed the scoring, in a game where we got a penalty that was then missed, that we'd got in at HT only a goal down,everything except the last kick of the ball went our way, but, the lack of concentration and stand-off nature of our tactics let them win through.

 

clown-shoes is and was a weak minded amateur, full of good intentions but sadly living in a dream world of his own making, where every negative is spun as a positive, where no mistakes are ever even remotely connected to him, quite simply one of if not the worst manager in our illustrious history. Hammer Walter for 'disappointing' but at least he called it as dire as it was, Royle took the fight to the press - no more mister nice guy to the extent that he threw them out of Bellefield. Koeman's blunt honesty is rather jarring, and some of his selections and subs are mind boggling, but at least he isn't relying on not-past-it-cos-they-never-had-it types like Alcaraz, and Kone, (Walker was a short lived nightmare that gifted us Joe) (and Kendall gets a pass for greatness delivered)

 

Make all the excuses you need about the previous regime, it says a lot that the clubs end of season awards had to be altered because of the eventual bad feeling towards the 'man' doing the damage, the malice I hold for him is based on borderline criminal signings, the worst home record ever delivered, and the audacity to come and get his pound of flesh after the axe had fallen. A disgrace of a so called man, in fact an utter worm. For shame!

[Shukes]

But don't you see... now on is making excuses for the previous regime.

 

We're just pointing out there isn't much difference now.

[Shy_Talk]

Agree but it was still his most productive season.

Same argument as Rom scoring a hat trick to boost a tally etc.

 

So let's single out Barkley.

What has Koeman done about his slump?

How has he managed him?

Have we seen results?

 

And this is my point.

Koeman hasn't been any better than Martinez.

Football is worse.

Again I highlight, hasn't, as I am not saying he won't get better. I just don't see the progress that others are seeing.

 

There's no fight or passion, guts or heart, nothing.

 

Trying to be fair, we've lost once in the league at home this season (and that was a last kick of the match in the fifth minute of extra time effort that had spooned back off the post) I seriously didn't like it but saw enough first half to see more in 45 minutes of a derby than I had for some years.

 

All the aspects that we want to see in the players like fight, passion, heart, guts, effort, pride, never-say-die, has been coached/managed out of them over two and a half seasons of 'phenomenal'. The colossal bottle job of having fourth place in our own hands at the run in in that first season cost the club,the support,the players more dearly than ever could have been calculated. That some of the club furniture has been let go (Osman and Hibbert) has an effect day to day, on the bench, in the dressing room,even on the physio table. We don't have a set of lads that have come through together and won the fa youth cup that all have that team bond, it's something over the years we've taken for granted and now it's gone.

 

Koeman has to either instill the will and belief into his side, or invest wisely in players that already have it that hasn't been destroyed.

 

To back this up I'd like someone at the club to be suggesting to Mirallas and Lukaku that maybe any Belgian friendlies are a waste of time and slight injuries might occur temporarily whenever the thief of £11.25million comes a calling.

 

Give me eleven nasty players instead of eleven nice guys that take losses as lightly as our former phenomenon manager did.

[Shy_Talk]

But don't you see... now on is making excuses for the previous regime.

 

We're just pointing out there isn't much difference now.

 

I'm aiming squarely at the 'give him time' apologists that refused to see the planet sized problem 18 months in.

 

So far as Koeman goes, it's the same with/for everyone, it is far easier to destroy than it is to create. The harm done by mr phenomenon is so entrenched now that major surgery wont remove the full extent of the disease and decay. We are on a long term healing journey, convalescing, there will be periods where all will seem lost and theres no way back, but like a long term injury to a player, we need to have a bit of faith, not let our thinking be invaded by the immediate darkness and (re)discover that inner strength that belief and fight to come good through the other side.

 

It didn't take 6 months to poison us and to be overwhelmed with despair, it was a near full three seasons of bad bad medicine. There are no quick fixes, no easy choices, the shackles we got used to that have scarred us so have to eventually heal and be forgotten (though never forgiven) and a new era will dawn.

 

I suspect Koeman didn't realise just how big a task he was signing up for nor just how long it would likely take. I hope he has the heart and fight for the job that he is so clearly expecting from his charges to show game on game.

 

Edit: PS Koeman isn't telling lies before or after games in interviews where someone used to be laughing and joking with the interviewers whilst spewing forth such utter tripe he should have been carted away for being a biohazard.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Shy_Talk