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Ronald Koeman


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106 members have voted

  1. 1. Who would you choose

    • Mourinho
      15
    • De Boer
      18
    • Koeman
      26
    • Low
      4
    • Pelligrini
      17
    • Hughes
      2
    • O'Neill
      0
    • Emery
      6
    • Moyes
      3
    • Somebody else
      13
    • Simeone
      2


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I honestly think that people give Martinez way too much credit.

To say that he coached the fundamental aspects of football out of seasoned professionals is absurd for me and I don't think that Martinez has the ability to do that.

 

Again, Koeman may come good and this window could be massive for him.

But I expected more in six months than this. Like others have pointed out, what makes Koeman so special that he needs longer than most other managers?

Why are so many managers dumped after only a few months? Is this because of dumb arse owners or shrewd business men that don't need years to notice when things aren't right?

 

I am just used to taking responsibility for my own actions and that of my staff. I expect other managers to do the same, and when we roll over so easily... it disappoints me that no one seems to take ownership.

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Doesn't make you an apologist to have the opinion that he should be given time.

 

I don't think he is the man for us but we can't get rid just yet.

 

Again, the apologists comment is to those that would have us still limping onwards (to relegation) with clown-shoes.

 

Koeman gets time because the poison in the club from the clown-shoes fiasco needs cutting out and discarding.

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I should add to that we've missed Besic, McCarthy and Bolassie throughout the season weakening and already weak squad further. It doesn't leave a lot at all.

We've played better without Bolasie IMO and when has Besic ever been a key player? Only one we can say we have missed is McCarthy because he seems to be able to play in Koemans system very effectively!

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I honestly think that people give Martinez way too much credit.

To say that he coached the fundamental aspects of football out of seasoned professionals is absurd for me and I don't think that Martinez has the ability to do that.

 

Again, Koeman may come good and this window could be massive for him.

But I expected more in six months than this. Like others have pointed out, what makes Koeman so special that he needs longer than most other managers?

Why are so many managers dumped after only a few months? Is this because of dumb arse owners or shrewd business men that don't need years to notice when things aren't right?

 

I am just used to taking responsibility for my own actions and that of my staff. I expect other managers to do the same, and when we roll over so easily... it disappoints me that no one seems to take ownership.

 

tiki-taka crab ball and titting about in defence. the legacy of clown-shoes. (besides money wasted on poor signings and the payoff and the lies/delusionment and the home record and the devastation of a solid defence)

 

Koeman is granted time because of the malignant legacy he has inherited (it's not a special dispensation for his needs) the actual job that needs doing is/was to fundamentally undo the damage it took a demolition genius three seasons to unleash upon us. It is unrealistic to expect a complete about face in just a half season from the awful position we were sleepwalked into by the clowns regime.

 

I have wanted more from our manager, I still want an explanation regarding matchday squads and peculiar absentees who suddenly come back into consideration (and vice versa) but I knew when we got rid of the laugh-a-day-liar that we were on a long difficult road to redemption and whoever got the job wouldn't undo the harm done in a matter of a few games.

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We've played better without Bolasie IMO and when has Besic ever been a key player? Only one we can say we have missed is McCarthy because he seems to be able to play in Koemans system very effectively!

I think Besic could actually be decent under Koeman. He hasn't done anything in his EFC career so far but think he'd work in a higher pressing system (which is what I believe Koeman is trying to implement).

 

For me, Bolasie had been our stand out winger this season. He's inconsistent but he's been the best of a bad bunch really. None have been anywhere near good enough in all honesty. Bolasie is the only one I can see staying long term - Mirallas has shown flashes recently but i can't recall him taking a game on and winning it for us in a long time.

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1st half vs Spurs filled me with optimism but still then Koeman said we weren't fit enough. It's clear he didn't get his targets in to play this way in the summer. I think he's alluding to he's wanted Schneiderlin since the summer so why hasn't it been done yet? We should be doing better performance wise but I don't think he can be compared to Klopp as he inherited Coutinho, Lallana, Firminho, Sturridge, etc. in simple terms our squad isn't good enough - RS have spent hundreds of millions on that squad over a sustained period - how Moyes closed that gap was quite incredible really. On the Moyes comparison - the expectations were so low when he came and the Prem was very different to what it is now with sustained investment from the current top 6. Regarding Martinez - he had the solid foundations Moyes built and was able to add the missing piece in Lukaku (obviously Barry and McCarthy were top signings too).

 

I think Koeman's comments yesterday were aimed at player recruitment - we didn't get it right in the summer and I think he's putting a message out that we'll continue like this without strengthening.

 

I can completely see why people are frustrated/doubting Koeman but to all those people do you honestly think this squad is anywhere good enough?

 

Personally I think we need to upgrade the following...

 

Stek/Joel

Jags/Mori/Oviedo

Gibson/Cleverley/Geri/Lennon

Kone/Niasse

 

I'd sell all bar the keepers and would only keep Stek as back-up and loan Joel out. That's a very damning assessment on how weak our squad is - considering many of these are 1st teamers show how big a job Koeman has got.

Klopp may or may not have had better players at his dosposal but that is irrelevant because they all started playing into his system. Like I said you could see it, almost from day one, how his team were going to play. Some players may have been better than others but they were in a system. We know we can do it because they did it under Martinez and some under Moyes.

 

In terms of the squad options you mention, if you look at most teams they will have the same problem, it's only because it's Everton that you know who you would get rid of. I could go through Utd's squad, City's and Arsenals etc and identify similar if not more waste.

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I think Besic could actually be decent under Koeman. He hasn't done anything in his EFC career so far but think he'd work in a higher pressing system (which is what I believe Koeman is trying to implement).

 

For me, Bolasie had been our stand out winger this season. He's inconsistent but he's been the best of a bad bunch really. None have been anywhere near good enough in all honesty. Bolasie is the only one I can see staying long term - Mirallas has shown flashes recently but i can't recall him taking a game on and winning it for us in a long time.

Jury is out on Besic. Davies has more qualities in my opinion.

 

As for Bolasie, I actually think he was the worse. First couple of games were decent but after that his second touch seemed to be giving the ball away. He always seems to have an assist in him but at the same time he has a cert goal wasted in him too. I would go Gerry, Mirallas, Valencia, Bolasie and then Lennon.

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I get the feeling that that the press are using Koeman's use of English phrasing against him. I don't think he criticised Steve Walsh.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ronald-koemans-fa-cup-anger-12421997

Headline: Was Ronald Koeman's FA Cup anger directed at Steve Walsh and the Everton board?

He was asked about new signings.

Quote: "I have that in mind and the board knows because we spoke together about what we need. That's the job of Steve Walsh and it's my job."

It seems to me that he's saying he's spoke to the board about the need for new players. It's his and Walsh's job to identify new players.
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Again, the apologists comment is to those that would have us still limping onwards (to relegation) with clown-shoes.

 

Koeman gets time because the poison in the club from the clown-shoes fiasco needs cutting out and discarding.

Koeman gets time because we are top 8.... if we couldn't win a game or compete and we're bottom 5 then yeah.

 

"How" we are top 8 doesn't impress me. There has been very little deliberate methodology as to how we get wins. He doesn't strike me as someone who is a strategist.... more tinkers about an experiments.

 

He has bought himself time from results being better than 12 or so other teams.

 

My gut feeling is that hes not the answer.... that doesn't justify sacking straight away.

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In terms of the squad options you mention, if you look at most teams they will have the same problem, it's only because it's Everton that you know who you would get rid of. I could go through Utd's squad, City's and Arsenals etc and identify similar if not more waste.

The teams above us - the ones we want to be in and amongst/ahead may have surplus players but they also have a hell of a lot more depth - we're miles off all 6 in terms of squad depth. Why? Because they've been investing in a higher proven calibre of player than us over a sustained period of time. Spurs have Trippier and Davies as back-up full backs and Vorm as a sub keeper, Man U can afford to leave Schneiderlin and Depay out of match day squads, Arsenal have Welbeck, Giroud and Perez as back-up players these are just a few examples and I haven't even started of RS, Chelsea and Man C.

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if you look at the the relationship Klopp has with his players you can see they love him and would do anything for him the respect is so great.

 

Remember when Lukaku, after scoring a goal, rushed across to hug Martinez? Remember the excitement, the sense that this team really wants to do well together? It would be so encouraging to see a player do the same to Koeman, so we know that spirit is there.

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I see a team playing as individuals with no clear directions of how the manager wants them to play. Pretty much all over the place. Under Moyes and Martinez there was always structure, Koemans teams just seem to be Everyman for him self just go out there and chase after the ball and hoof it to Rom!

 

Obviously, on the other side of the pond, I'm not there in person and can only rely on video streams and highlights. But, even viewing in this manner, I wholeheartedly agree that players don't seem to know what is the plan or how they fit in. It's disappointing.

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This is the problem for me. You want to see what we are trying to achieve even if we ultimately don't achieve it.

 

I don't like using this example but Klopp do came in across the park and whilst it didn't always work, you could see what he was trying to do. Players took time to adapt, he probably had to adapt his philosophy a little to cope with English conditions but you could see what he wanted to do. You could see the same when both Moyes and Martinez came here too.

 

I thought I could see the adaption against Spurs in week 1 but I haven't seen that since. We had glimpses against Arsenal and Liverpool but that was largely to run and tackle everything before lumping it towards Rom.

 

I get that he will want to bring in players that can suit his style better but I have no idea if the players we have suit the style he actually wants to play because I don't know what that is.

 

But remember...Koeman doesn't bring in the players: Walsh does. It's Koeman's job to get the best from the squad we have. I'm sure he influences strongly what we look for, but we can't use the excuse that he doesn't yet have the players he wants. He may never have those players.

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But remember...Koeman doesn't bring in the players: Walsh does. It's Koeman's job to get the best from the squad we have. I'm sure he influences strongly what we look for, but we can't use the excuse that he doesn't yet have the players he wants. He may never have those players.

 

Is he allowed to decide that some of the players he has absolutely will not do?

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Being honest here I've seen some absolute dross this season. Worse than Anything Martinez served up. An he was clown.

I get that but he's had no time to change it, you can't expect any manager to come in and change that shit squad in half a season.

 

We were promised Witsel, Mata, Koulibally in the summer and the board failed to deliver them.

 

You can't blame him for that.

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The frustrating thing is that, at the start of the season, would expect to finish 7th. There are 6 better teams at the moment so a 7th place finish is pretty much what you would expect. The problem is that we are miles away from the top 6 now.

 

We have capitulated against Chelsea, lost ridiculous games and been dumped out of both cups. Everton should be a lot closer than they are to the big boys. We should be in a position to pounce if one of them has a bad season. Last year they ALL had a bad season and we were nowhere to be seen. Under Koeman, at the moment, this is still the case.

We're miles away from top 6 because of Martinez. We finished 11th two seasons running but Koeman with practically the same squad has us 7th

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We're miles away from top 6 because of Martinez. We finished 11th two seasons running but Koeman with practically the same squad has us 7th

 

The comparison is invalid. No Europa games to cope with. No cup runs to cope with. A very different financial situation today than just 12 months ago. These are major factors. I'd suggest we're doing pretty much the same: no worse and no better - except that the football is much less appealing.

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If Martinez was still in charge he would have relegated us, he's a shit manager who took the piss out of us. There's a reason he lost the players and that's because they could see where he was taking us.

 

You can defend your golden boy all you like Steve and now he's gone you're absolutely desperate to see Koeman fail so Martinez can save face. Funny you were all for giving Martinez time and defended him to the last yet you're all over Koeman like a rash everytime we get beat.

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I get that but he's had no time to change it, you can't expect any manager to come in and change that shit squad in half a season.

We were promised Witsel, Mata, Koulibally in the summer and the board failed to deliver them.

You can't blame him for that.

No you wouldn't expect him to change it completely, but after approximately 40M spent and six in the job it wouldn't be unfair to expect better than where getting.
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If Martinez was still in charge he would have relegated us, he's a shit manager who took the piss out of us. There's a reason he lost the players and that's because they could see where he was taking us.

 

You can defend your golden boy all you like Steve and now he's gone you're absolutely desperate to see Koeman fail so Martinez can save face. Funny you were all for giving Martinez time and defended him to the last yet you're all over Koeman like a rash everytime we get beat.

 

I'm not defending anyone. Sometimes, it's human nature to react in an extreme way, only for the pendulum to swing back to normalcy. Some of the comments flying about in this thread fall very much into that 'extreme' category, all emotion and very little reason. We were right to bring in a new manager. Now we're discussing whether that new manager is making progress, and the jury is very much out on that. Indeed, the evidence is tending toward "not much". It seems that majority opinion is to give him more time, to see how goes the January window, but there's already a note of uncertainty in the air. Koeman needs to make progress and quickly. Points in the second half of the season should exceed points in the first half. Is that reasonable?

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I'm not defending anyone. Sometimes, it's human nature to react in an extreme way, only for the pendulum to swing back to normalcy. Some of the comments flying about in this thread fall very much into that 'extreme' category, all emotion and very little reason. We were right to bring in a new manager. Now we're discussing whether that new manager is making progress, and the jury is very much out on that. Indeed, the evidence is tending toward "not much". It seems that majority opinion is to give him more time, to see how goes the January window, but there's already a note of uncertainty in the air. Koeman needs to make progress and quickly. Points in the second half of the season should exceed points in the first half. Is that reasonable?

If we finish 7th then that's a good enough improvement for me.

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If Martinez was still in charge he would have relegated us, he's a shit manager who took the piss out of us. There's a reason he lost the players and that's because they could see where he was taking us.

 

You can defend your golden boy all you like Steve and now he's gone you're absolutely desperate to see Koeman fail so Martinez can save face. Funny you were all for giving Martinez time and defended him to the last yet you're all over Koeman like a rash everytime we get beat.

 

You're quite justified in pointing out that I felt Martinez deserved time, but that was in large part because we could see what he was hoping to achieve: a more flowing style, establishing a legacy through young players, etc. Yes, he made some weird and unwise signings, but we were operating under much more stringent financial limits at that point and had to take risks. Some pay off and some don't. We appear to have learned that lesson by bringing in a director of football. What concerns me with Koeman is that, if you asked me what is his strategy, I really couldn't answer - and, based on their performance on the field - I get the feeling most players couldn't either.

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You're quite justified in pointing out that I felt Martinez deserved time, but that was in large part because we could see what he was hoping to achieve: a more flowing style, establishing a legacy through young players, etc. Yes, he made some weird and unwise signings, but we were operating under much more stringent financial limits at that point and had to take risks. Some pay off and some don't. We appear to have learned that lesson by bringing in a director of football. What concerns me with Koeman is that, if you asked me what is his strategy, I really couldn't answer - and, based on their performance on the field - I get the feeling most players couldn't either.

To say he seems to have no idea what he's doing or the players don't is just ridiculous. If that's the case, why was Southampton not the same, why were they playing good football beating the top teams and finishing higher than they ever have?

 

The reason we're all over the shop is because piece by piece Martinez demolition job of us will have to be repaired.

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Also this "he is operating under different financial constaints nonesense. We had practically zero net spend after the Stones sale, Martinez was backed heavily by the board and was never forced to sell his best players. Yet he brough shitehawk after shitehawk through the doors chatting wham like Mcgeady one of the beat footballers he's ever seen and giving contracts to the likes of Hibbert who never kicked a ball for his last 3 years as an Everton player.

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