Ronald Koeman

[Bailey]

The teams above us - the ones we want to be in and amongst/ahead may have surplus players but they also have a hell of a lot more depth - we're miles off all 6 in terms of squad depth. Why? Because they've been investing in a higher proven calibre of player than us over a sustained period of time. Spurs have Trippier and Davies as back-up full backs and Vorm as a sub keeper, Man U can afford to leave Schneiderlin and Depay out of match day squads, Arsenal have Welbeck, Giroud and Perez as back-up players these are just a few examples and I haven't even started of RS, Chelsea and Man C.

Yeh and they also have players like Fellaini, Jones, Rojo etc that are in their starting 11 which I wouldn't put in ours. Same with Depay.

 

I'm not saying we have as many genuine first teamers as they do but when you look across the league we have roughly as many as the teams around us, and/or the teams that were above us last season.

 

Fwiw the effect isn't just for top teams. Remember when we played Soton the week after Pochettino was in charge. They were superb and so much more organised and deserved 3 points.

[Bailey]

We're miles away from top 6 because of Martinez. We finished 11th two seasons running but Koeman with practically the same squad has us 7th

But at this stage last season we were roughly in the same position.

 

Are you saying that the squad Martinez was able to get into that position 12 months ago is that much worse now? If so, please elaborate.

[Shy_Talk]

Also this "he is operating under different financial constaints nonesense. We had practically zero net spend after the Stones sale, Martinez was backed heavily by the board and was never forced to sell his best players. Yet he brough shitehawk after shitehawk through the doors chatting wham like Mcgeady one of the beat footballers he's ever seen and giving contracts to the likes of Hibbert who never kicked a ball for his last 3 years as an Everton player.

 

But he had a lovely smile though, and he spoke with such warmth and positivity, top class dresser, always the first to get a round in, and Wigan supporters were gutted to lose such a high caliber manager, players prepared to run through walls to get away from him I mean for him, and some of the most beautiful football ever played outside of the dreams of Pele, all hail Sir Roberto Martinez PHD - the scientist of football and what a pleasure it was to have been associated with such a true gent, kind soul, and hot disco boogier to ever walk on water.

 

FFS!

[Bailey]

If we finish 7th then that's a good enough improvement for me.

Even if we were able to finish 7th with the same or less points than last season?

 

I doubt it could happen but points gained should be the most important thing. Positions fluctuate year by year, hence why Moyes got us 4th and Martinez earnt our highest ever points total and finished 5th.

[Palfy]

Also this "he is operating under different financial constaints nonesense. We had practically zero net spend after the Stones sale, Martinez was backed heavily by the board and was never forced to sell his best players. Yet he brough shitehawk after shitehawk through the doors chatting wham like Mcgeady one of the beat footballers he's ever seen and giving contracts to the likes of Hibbert who never kicked a ball for his last 3 years as an Everton player.

I didn't know Koeman was forced to sell Stones before he could buy Bolasi, Stekkers and Gana, there's me thinking that Moshiri said he could go because he had been promised he could go at the end of the season, and that they had money to spend.

[Bailey]

The way the table is looking at this moment in time, we could finish on less points this season but still be in a higher position in the league, if that was to happen to me that would be failure not improvement.

You beat me too it.

 

Considering how bad we were at the end of Martinez reign if Koeman doesn't beat last year's total by 12-15 points I think it would be a big disappointment.

[Aidan]

I live completely on the opposite side of the city to Netherly you plum. Practically Bootle to make it easier.

 

It's a barm. Batch is wool term.

Blackpool lad and can confirm that it is in fact a barm! Short for "Barmcake"!

[Paddock]

But at this stage last season we were roughly in the same position.

 

Are you saying that the squad Martinez was able to get into that position 12 months ago is that much worse now? If so, please elaborate.

Mit's barely any better, the board was told Mata, Witsel, Koulibaly We ended up with Williams, Gana and Bollasie, the whole place was rotten to the core, there was no confidence, no one was happy the manager had lost the players.

 

Nobody is going to come in and change that in half a season, nobody. Also he is implementing a completely new style of play and trying to make us less soft . It wont happen over night!

 

Look at Martinez first season where he had Moyes well drilled, top 6 regular side and he was a revelation with it. Why? Because it wasn't his team, then ater season 1 his way of doing things started to take hold and we went down hill rapidly.

 

Now look at what Koeman inheritted, an 11th place finishing team who were quite frankly a shambles devoid of any confidence or idea of what they were as a team.

 

It's going to take more than half a season to fix the mess. There is no quick fix, Martinez destroyed us.

[EFC-Paul]

Blackpool lad and can confirm that it is in fact a barm! Short for "Barmcake"!

Your a lasher Aidan?

[MC11]

Blackpool lad and can confirm that it is in fact a barm! Short for "Barmcake"!

Confirmed - it is in fact wools who call it a barm!

[MC11]

Had this chat with my mother the other day she calls it a barm she's from Chillwall

[Shy_Talk]

But at this stage last season we were roughly in the same position.

 

Are you saying that the squad Martinez was able to get into that position 12 months ago is that much worse now? If so, please elaborate.

 

Well, fixture lottery to one side, and another years age and a seasons more punishment into a lot of the players aside....

 

.....Losing our expensive summer signing has hurt, we haven't replaced like for like @ GK, Howard was first choice international, neither of what we have are. We're struggling with injuries in midfield (McCarthy) and fortnightly one player falls off the face of the earth whilst suddenly one is involved again. We get nothing from Kone and Niasse, fans are on Jagielkas back (unreasonably for me!) theres arguements sake to call a busy summer for some (Lukaku Williams) as a potential factor in not hitting the ground running at the start of the season, we have lost easily our best distributor from CB (Stones) and like it ornot we released Osman, Pienaar, Howard, Naismith (very wrong move), and Hibbert. A squad that needed adding too is maybe about even in terms of numbers but we're carrying way to many injured, if it hadn't been for getting Gueye in on a release clause for exceptional value and him settling in instantly then I fear for what we'd be faced with.

 

Perhaps if Koeman unloaded lies upon lies after every game about how great we are it might sugar the pill, it seems some are still living under the placebo effect of our former manager, who was thankfully ousted as the ten-a-penny conman way out of his depth he always was.

 

Koeman played Pelle at Saints, and we were in for Perez who went to Arsenal, and Gabbiadini. That shows me that he wants a big lad up front to be able to vary the play too, Lukaku is going to be the uprated version of Long in this equation. To make this work we need legs right across midfield and then spares on the bench to be rotated in to keep the press on and work the front two in.

 

We're about 70% of a Koeman side, lets see what he can do with at least a couple more pieces of his jigsaw then judge.

[c1982]

Yeh and they also have players like Fellaini, Jones, Rojo etc that are in their starting 11 which I wouldn't put in ours. Same with Depay.

 

I'm not saying we have as many genuine first teamers as they do but when you look across the league we have roughly as many as the teams around us, and/or the teams that were above us last season.

 

Fwiw the effect isn't just for top teams. Remember when we played Soton the week after Pochettino was in charge. They were superb and so much more organised and deserved 3 points.

People aren't moaning about the teams below us though - they're saying that we should be challenging the teams above who in comparison to we have a lot less quality. You reference Jones, Rojo, Fellaini and Depay - all would play most games if they were here in my opinion (I'm not saying I want us to go and sign them).

 

Southampton were still on the up when they got Pochettino - I remember how harsh it seemed Adkins getting sacked was; similar to Rowett at Birmingham recently. He improved them, no doubt, but it was already a settled squad doing well - they weren't in a scrap if memory serves me right. We've got a squad low in confidence and under performing after back to back 11th place finishes.

[pete0]

Only ever heard barm in my neck of the woods (North Liverpool/Knowsley).

 

Cobs are crusty, rolls are for hotdogs, and muffins for breakfast.

[Bailey]

Mit's barely any better, the board was told Mata, Witsel, Koulibaly We ended up with Williams, Gana and Bollasie, the whole place was rotten to the core, there was no confidence, no one was happy the manager had lost the players.

 

Nobody is going to come in and change that in half a season, nobody. Also he is implementing a completely new style of play and trying to make us less soft . It wont happen over night!

 

Look at Martinez first season where he had Moyes well drilled, top 6 regular side and he was a revelation with it. Why? Because it wasn't his team, then ater season 1 his way of doing things started to take hold and we went down hill rapidly.

 

Now look at what Koeman inheritted, an 11th place finishing team who were quite frankly a shambles devoid of any confidence or idea of what they were as a team.

 

It's going to take more than half a season to fix the mess. There is no quick fix, Martinez destroyed us.

You don't know what Koeman was or wasn't told and managers don't get what they want a lot of the time. Do you think Martinez would have got McGeady if he could have brought in someone of real quality?

 

That Moyes stuff is rubbish, we won something like 6 on the bounce in the second half of that first season, are you still crediting Moyes then? Why isn't Moyes carrying on from where Allardyce left off at Sunderland, or Ferguson at Utd for that matter if he is that good a coach?

 

Plus Unsworth did a pretty good job at giving the squad an identity in the weak he had the team, you know, the same shambles of a team and they were that incompetent that they managed 3 goals and a clean sheet. The same Norwich that beat us in the cup this year.

 

Like I have said plenty of times I am not expecting us to turn into world beaters after 6 months but I would have expected to see progress and at least some hope but I don't see any of it.

[Romey 1878]

Remember when Lukaku, after scoring a goal, rushed across to hug Martinez? Remember the excitement, the sense that this team really wants to do well together? It would be so encouraging to see a player do the same to Koeman, so we know that spirit is there.

You mean like when Lukaku scored from a free-kick and ran over to Koeman to celebrate?

[Shy_Talk]

Only ever heard barm in my neck of the woods (North Liverpool/Knowsley).

 

Cobs are crusty, rolls are for hotdogs, and muffins for breakfast.

 

Erm, say what!

[Bailey]

 

Well, fixture lottery to one side, and another years age and a seasons more punishment into a lot of the players aside....

 

.....Losing our expensive summer signing has hurt, we haven't replaced like for like @ GK, Howard was first choice international, neither of what we have are. We're struggling with injuries in midfield (McCarthy) and fortnightly one player falls off the face of the earth whilst suddenly one is involved again. We get nothing from Kone and Niasse, fans are on Jagielkas back (unreasonably for me!) theres arguements sake to call a busy summer for some (Lukaku Williams) as a potential factor in not hitting the ground running at the start of the season, we have lost easily our best distributor from CB (Stones) and like it ornot we released Osman, Pienaar, Howard, Naismith (very wrong move), and Hibbert. A squad that needed adding too is maybe about even in terms of numbers but we're carrying way to many injured, if it hadn't been for getting Gueye in on a release clause for exceptional value and him settling in instantly then I fear for what we'd be faced with.

 

Perhaps if Koeman unloaded lies upon lies after every game about how great we are it might sugar the pill, it seems some are still living under the placebo effect of our former manager, who was thankfully ousted as the ten-a-penny conman way out of his depth he always was.

 

Koeman played Pelle at Saints, and we were in for Perez who went to Arsenal, and Gabbiadini. That shows me that he wants a big lad up front to be able to vary the play too, Lukaku is going to be the uprated version of Long in this equation. To make this work we need legs right across midfield and then spares on the bench to be rotated in to keep the press on and work the front two in.

 

We're about 70% of a Koeman side, lets see what he can do with at least a couple more pieces of his jigsaw then judge.

Fixtures are largely irrelevant because we are only 3 games past half way so it won't make a difference.

 

As for the WC only Williams and Lukaku got any real game time, maybe Coleman? Not having that either.

 

Pretty much every single one of those players you mentioned played no part of our season. Naismith went because the offer was far too good and truth is Martinez made him look like that price when in reality he is nowhere near it. It's not like he has done anything at Norwich.

 

I don't get why people take the press conferences to heart. I would expect any manager to protect their squad. If you have a problem with a performance that should never be aired to the media, it should be between the manager and the player (s). I would rather have Martinez's bullshit about Barkley being the best player in the world than Koeman having a dig in front of the cameras. The press conference should just be a BS exercise so that you can get back to the players to tell them what you really think. Either way that's irrelevant now.

 

I do think he is short of what he ideally wants but if he needed to ship the whole squad out and get a new one in, he probably isn't a very good coach and he probably wasnt the right man for the job.

 

He clearly needs time, I don't dispute that, but we also need to see progress.

[Shy_Talk]

You don't know what Koeman was or wasn't told and managers don't get what they want a lot of the time. Do you think Martinez would have got McGeady if he could have brought in someone of real quality?

 

That Moyes stuff is rubbish, we won something like 6 on the bounce in the second half of that first season, are you still crediting Moyes then? Why isn't Moyes carrying on from where Allardyce left off at Sunderland, or Ferguson at Utd for that matter if he is that good a coach?

 

Plus Unsworth did a pretty good job at giving the squad an identity in the weak he had the team, you know, the same shambles of a team and they were that incompetent that they managed 3 goals and a clean sheet. The same Norwich that beat us in the cup this year.

 

Like I have said plenty of times I am not expecting us to turn into world beaters after 6 months but I would have expected to see progress and at least some hope but I don't see any of it.

 

Yeah, erm, already relegated Norwich. Perhaps the identity you point to was actually relief from the players with finally being rid of the shambles pretending to be a manager.

[Newty82]

Blimey. I keep meaning to write my view here...but I can't be arsed yet!

 

I'm finding some of this 'anti koeman' stuff hard reading though. It just seems a bit soon to be saying a lot of it! And defo a bit over the top.

 

What I'm reading, Paddock has similar views to me. Just read his stuff instead!!!

[Bailey]

People aren't moaning about the teams below us though - they're saying that we should be challenging the teams above who in comparison to we have a lot less quality. You reference Jones, Rojo, Fellaini and Depay - all would play most games if they were here in my opinion (I'm not saying I want us to go and sign them).

 

Southampton were still on the up when they got Pochettino - I remember how harsh it seemed Adkins getting sacked was; similar to Rowett at Birmingham recently. He improved them, no doubt, but it was already a settled squad doing well - they weren't in a scrap if memory serves me right. We've got a squad low in confidence and under performing after back to back 11th place finishes.

For example Leicester and West Ham were ahead of us last season and ahead of Koeman last season so it is still relevant and thats why I raised the point.

 

I'm not sure of the position but they were only 3 points above relegation so I doubt they would be that high on confidence! If Adkins was still there it would have been a far easier game but Pochettino came in and within a week or 10 days, no summer, he turned them into a high energy, high pressure team.

[Bailey]

 

Yeah, erm, already relegated Norwich. Perhaps the identity you point to was actually relief from the players with finally being rid of the shambles pretending to be a manager.

Yep the relegated Norwich that we lost to this season, when they made 11 changes. Yep that's them.

[Shy_Talk]

Fixtures are largely irrelevant because we are only 3 games past half way so it won't make a difference.

 

As for the WC only Williams and Lukaku got any real game time, maybe Coleman? Not having that either.

 

Pretty much every single one of those players you mentioned played no part of our season. Naismith went because the offer was far too good and truth is Martinez made him look like that price when in reality he is nowhere near it. It's not like he has done anything at Norwich.

 

I don't get why people take the press conferences to heart. I would expect any manager to protect their squad. If you have a problem with a performance that should never be aired to the media, it should be between the manager and the player (s). I would rather have Martinez's bullshit about Barkley being the best player in the world than Koeman having a dig in front of the cameras. The press conference should just be a BS exercise so that you can get back to the players to tell them what you really think. Either way that's irrelevant now.

 

I do think he is short of what he ideally wants but if he needed to ship the whole squad out and get a new one in, he probably isn't a very good coach and he probably wasnt the right man for the job.

 

He clearly needs time, I don't dispute that, but we also need to see progress.

 

Fixtures are very relevant, as this years top six will gather a lot more points in total than last seasons - which shows they have improved, so homes and aways through good and bad form are relevant.

 

It was the Euro's, I'd forgot Coleman, and I don't believe it either but seeing as we're crossing every t and dotting every i then lets get thefull picture involved. For instance would Deulofeu have been involved in preseason so much if Rom hadn't been on his jollies.

 

Osman played, Howard played, Naismith played, and Stones played, so thats knocked that one on the head as well. To follow up the Naismith point, if he was performing so well, why let him go? Especially considering who came in to replace him. #shiver

 

But but but an honourable and blah blah chap though, bullshitting the media, thats bullshitting the support aswell. Which way do you want it.

 

Koeman isn't a very good coach if he cant work with the shambles left to him, that he has still top half, and has had a very limited scope in which to shape his squad, coco brought in Robles, Alcaraz, Kone and McCarthy. He instantly had a rapport with them,no such luxuries for Koeman.

 

and you've left out years catching up with us, season after season of brutality worked through Barry, Jagielka, Baines, Williams.

[MC11]

Blimey. I keep meaning to write my view here...but I can't be arsed yet!

 

I'm finding some of this 'anti koeman' stuff hard reading though. It just seems a bit soon to be saying a lot of it! And defo a bit over the top.

 

What I'm reading, Paddock has similar views to me. Just read his stuff instead!!!

But you're always wrong.

[Shy_Talk]

Yep the relegated Norwich that we lost to this season, when they made 11 changes. Yep that's them.

 

Oh well, in that case I can compare apples with pears as well, remember getting drummed at Arsenal (Highbury) a few days after we'd sewn up fourth? Our then manager said he'd had difficulty picking a sober eleven. So erm, we turned them over about three weeks ago, yep thats them.

 

FFS.

[Bailey]

Blimey. I keep meaning to write my view here...but I can't be arsed yet!

 

I'm finding some of this 'anti koeman' stuff hard reading though. It just seems a bit soon to be saying a lot of it! And defo a bit over the top.

 

What I'm reading, Paddock has similar views to me. Just read his stuff instead!!!

Just to make it clear I'm not anti Koeman at all, I think we will get there but we need to see more and we need to see it soon. I'm pretty sure he is thinking the same thing.

 

I just don't agree with some of these bullshit excuses. Using the same argument to support one manager and slate another. I don't even think Koeman would agree with such nonsense excuses himself!

[Newty82]

Just to make it clear I'm not anti Koeman at all, I think we will get there but we need to see more and we need to see it soon. I'm pretty sure he is thinking the same thing.

 

I just don't agree with some of these bullshit excuses. Using the same argument to support one manager and slate another. I don't even think Koeman would agree with such nonsense excuses himself!

I've read so much, I'm not sure who is anti koeman or not!!! And I'm certainly not going after anyone personally...my days for that are gone. Just can't be arsed with that anymore.

 

I'm frustrated too. Was really frustrated a couple of month or so ago. But I knew this season would be frustrating, I didn't expect anything else. And from what I remember pre-koeman being appointed, hardly anyone on here expected a good season. Most had us 10th - 12th! I think I had 8th...with a push at 6th or 7th being a good season!

 

Anyway, I'll write my full view on it at some point. I've had a tough day of it and been banned off a certain FB 'banter' page. Haha!!!

[Bailey]

 

Fixtures are very relevant, as this years top six will gather a lot more points in total than last seasons - which shows they have improved, so homes and aways through good and bad form are relevant.

 

It was the Euro's, I'd forgot Coleman, and I don't believe it either but seeing as we're crossing every t and dotting every i then lets get thefull picture involved. For instance would Deulofeu have been involved in preseason so much if Rom hadn't been on his jollies.

 

Osman played, Howard played, Naismith played, and Stones played, so thats knocked that one on the head as well. To follow up the Naismith point, if he was performing so well, why let him go? Especially considering who came in to replace him. #shiver

 

But but but an honourable and blah blah chap though, bullshitting the media, thats bullshitting the support aswell. Which way do you want it.

 

Koeman isn't a very good coach if he cant work with the shambles left to him, that he has still top half, and has had a very limited scope in which to shape his squad, coco brought in Robles, Alcaraz, Kone and McCarthy. He instantly had a rapport with them,no such luxuries for Koeman.

 

and you've left out years catching up with us, season after season of brutality worked through Barry, Jagielka, Baines, Williams.

Fixtures aren't relevant because for every team that underperformed, one will over perform.

 

Again so a couple of players, I do get the argument but it would normally indicate a slow start not a quick start before levelling off.

 

Yes they all played, I didn't say they didn't! But they were not a meaningful part of the squad as they were either injured or not good enough. You arent seriously trying to tell me that not having Hibbert and Osman in Koemans squad is a reason for us not doing better this season?

 

Regarding Naismith he was mainly on the bench. I like Naismith but he was in the doldrums before Martinez came here, people wanted rid, and then we got a great price for a bench player or rotation option. Naismith wanted to play regularly too so it was a move that suited all parties.

 

Well in that case every manager bullshits the support. Martinez just had a certain flair for it!

[Bailey]

 

Oh well, in that case I can compare apples with pears as well, remember getting drummed at Arsenal (Highbury) a few days after we'd sewn up fourth? Our then manager said he'd had difficulty picking a sober eleven. So erm, we turned them over about three weeks ago, yep thats them.

 

FFS.

You started the tit for tat, belittling thr opponent. I just said that the identity had changed, regardless of opponent.

[MC11]

I've read so much, I'm not sure who is anti koeman or not!!! And I'm certainly not going after anyone personally...my days for that are gone. Just can't be arsed with that anymore.

I'm frustrated too. Was really frustrated a couple of month or so ago. But I knew this season would be frustrating, I didn't expect anything else. And from what I remember pre-koeman being appointed, hardly anyone on here expected a good season. Most had us 10th - 12th! I think I had 8th...with a push at 6th or 7th being a good season!

Anyway, I'll write my full view on it at some point. I've had a tough day of it and been banned off a certain FB 'banter' page. Haha!!!

When will you learn and grow up?