Brexit...

[pete0]

Dyson, Boeing, General Electric have all made major investment in a post brexit UK. The future is looking good for UK and I feel more positive about UK now than I can ever really remember in my adult life.

All companies who get special favours from the government. I'd rather all companies get treated the same, and Joe public looked after first.

[Guest rusty747]

Please provide proof of your allegation.

 

And if they do get favourable treatment, so what! They are bringing jobs, wealth and job security to UK. Would you rather they went elsewhere. Thats just good business. If you know of anything unlawful, that would be different. Do you?

 

But I look forward to seeing proof of your statement.

 

While we are at it, shall we talk about waste and corruption within EU. That should keep us going for quite a while.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/356536/Britain-cannot-afford-this-EU-corruption-and-waste

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[pete0]

Is it? I never asked them. When did you speak to them?

 

I can tell you that they are truly disgusted with how their government is spending tax revenue and with the breakdown of law and order in their home country. To the extent that extended family are leaving Sweden without a job to come and live with them here.

Money is the main motive to move to Dubai. It's certainly not welfare, see how they treat their non oil rich neighbours.

[Matt]

Please provide proof of your allegation.

 

And if they do get favourable treatment, so what! They are bringing jobs, wealth and job security to UK. Would you rather they went elsewhere. Thats just good business. If you know of anything unlawful, that would be different. Do you?

 

But I look forward to seeing proof of your statement.

 

While we are at it, shall we talk about waste and corruption within EU. That should keep us going for quite a while.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/356536/Britain-cannot-afford-this-EU-corruption-and-waste

might as well look at the waste and corruption in the U.K. then...

[pete0]

Please provide proof of your allegation.

 

And if they do get favourable treatment, so what! They are bringing jobs, wealth and job security to UK. Would you rather they went elsewhere. Thats just good business. If you know of anything unlawful, that would be different. Do you?

 

But I look forward to seeing proof of your statement.

 

While we are at it, shall we talk about waste and corruption within EU. That should keep us going for quite a while.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/356536/Britain-cannot-afford-this-EU-corruption-and-waste

Doesn't have to be unlawful to be immoral . Dyson gets whatever he wants here, he's probably been granted more money than Liverpool has been given by the government. He bemoans the eu not giving him special treatment. Whereas Liverpool would be fucked without the eu funding.

[Guest rusty747]

Money is the main motive to move to Dubai. It's certainly not welfare, see how they treat their non oil rich neighbours.

No argument with what you just said but you didn't answer the question. They are still liable for a lot of Swedish tax due assets left in Sweden. So, how do you know why they left Sweden or chose Dubai as a place to live?

[pete0]

might as well look at the waste and corruption in the U.K. then...

I'd go as far to say we're the most corrupt. Look at our last prime minister avoiding tax whilst he proclaimed he was clamping down on it.

[Guest rusty747]

Doesn't have to be unlawful to be immoral . Dyson gets whatever he wants here, he's probably been granted more money than Liverpool has been given by the government. He bemoans the eu not giving him special treatment. Whereas Liverpool would be fucked without the eu funding.

Business runs on laws. What might be immoral to you might not be immoral to someone else. Thats why we have laws. Show me something unlawful please.

 

For that matter, show me something immoral nvolving Dyson, Boeing or GE and their associated investment in post brexit uk.

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[pete0]

Business runs on laws. What might be immoral to you might not be immoral to someone else. Thats why we have laws. Show me something unlawful please.

This is exactly why a nation is better off in a grander system. Our one is corrupt, and the European court and standards help keep the little people safe from our greedy leaders and their laws.

[Guest rusty747]

This is exactly why a nation is better off in a grander system. Our one is corrupt, and the European court and standards help keep the little people safe from our greedy leaders and their laws.

But the EU is the most corrupt organisation there is.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/356536/Britain-cannot-afford-this-EU-corruption-and-waste

 

Please give details of anything unlawful or immoral that Boeing, GE or Dyson has done in relation to post brexit investment in uk.

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[pete0]

No argument with what you just said but you didn't answer the question. They are still liable for a lot of Swedish tax due assets left in Sweden. So, how do you know why they left Sweden or chose Dubai as a place to live?

I don't see the point in this argument. Your friends live tax free and aren't happy paying tax on assets they don't even use. They are getting free money and moaning. Tell them to sell up or shut up.

[pete0]

But the EU is the most corrupt organisation there is.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/356536/Britain-cannot-afford-this-EU-corruption-and-waste

 

Please give details of anything unlawful or immoral that Boeing, GE or Dyson has done in relation to post brexit investment in uk.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/now-sir-james-dyson-urges-single-market-exit-just-months-after-losing-a-nasty-battle-in-brussels-a7297601.html%3Famp

[Guest rusty747]

I don't see the point in this argument. Your friends live tax free and aren't happy paying tax on assets they don't even use. They are getting free money and moaning. Tell them to sell up or shut up.

Ok, in bite sized chunks for the hard of thinking. Let me break it down for you.

 

Said friends had no job in Sweden but could get one (a good one) in Dubai. This was 10+ years ago. Rather than sell the family home they let other family members stay there rent free. This, according to Sweden tax law does not make them non resident for tax purposes. While they approved initially of where tax revenue was going and remaining family was happy in Sweden all was well.

 

Now, a combination of law and order issues and taxation (where its spent, not how much) has persuaded the extended family members to come to Dubai, for the family home to be sold and for the first time, for the entire family to pay little or no tax to Sweden.

 

But, to get back to the original point. The assertion was that all Swedes were happy to pay tax. I just demonstrated that they are not all happy to pay tax. And that unhappiness is driven by the changing ways in which the tax revenue is being spent.

 

Clearer?

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[Guest rusty747]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/now-sir-james-dyson-urges-single-market-exit-just-months-after-losing-a-nasty-battle-in-brussels-a7297601.html%3Famp

So, James Dyson lost a court battle over the labels on his vacuumn cleaners. How in hell is that relevant to the discussion?

 

The EU is far and away the most corrupt organisation. It cant even get its own accounts audited for the last 18 years due to all the fraud and corruption. Better off out of it.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/356536/Britain-cannot-afford-this-EU-corruption-and-waste

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[MikeO]

Not getting involved here other than to say posting links to articles in the Express will only weaken your corner rusty mate, it's a pitiful one eyed comic.

[Guest rusty747]

Wheras posts linked to left wing, elitist liberal leaning periodicals are ok? My link was also reported in the telegraph, independendent, guardian and mail.

 

How about this link then? 120 billion a year is the estimated cost of corruption. How the hell they estimated it I dont know.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/organized-crime-and-human-trafficking/corruption_en

 

Or maybe the EU itself admitting that corruption across the EU is breathtaking.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387

 

And in the EU's own study, the UK was found to be the least corrupt of all 28 nations.

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[MikeO]

Wheras posts linked to left wing, elitist liberal leaning periodicals are ok? My link was also reported in the telegraph, independendent, guardian and mail.

 

How about this link then? 120 billion a year is the estimated cost of corruption. How the hell they estimated it I dont know.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/organized-crime-and-human-trafficking/corruption_en

 

I was commenting on the Express, nothing else.

 

Plainly if you were to link a source backing your views that isn't from a sensationalist xenophobic outlet it'd carry more weight.

[Guest rusty747]

Cheers Mike

[Guest rusty747]

And in the EU's own study (see BBC link) UK was found to be the least corrupt of all the 28 nations.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387

[Cornish Steve]

 

Peter H has already explained the rape thing based on stats rather than based on the opinion of some people he knows (even if he can point to as much as three swedish families as a sample size) ..

 

About the "westmonster" (which is a UKIP website by the way) article:

In the Autumn Statement last November borrowing was projected to be over 230 billion £ between 2016-2017 and 2020-2021. That figure has now been adjusted to a number 45 billion £ lower. That however does not mean you have an extra 45 billion to spend, it just means you have to borrow less.

 

Also, Sweden has the highest tax compliance rate in Europe and that article about reintroducing national service says nothing about it being because of immigrants, nothing.

 

One of my Swedish colleagues lives on the island with the new garrison. He's been telling me for many months about the significant increase in Russian activity in the area, especially flights by Russian jets. It's very clear that this is the reason behind conscription. Pete's earlier post explains about rape: it's all about broadening the definition and more women feeling able to come forward - which is a good thing.

[Guest rusty747]

One of my Swedish colleagues lives on the island with the new garrison. He's been telling me for many months about the significant increase in Russian activity in the area, especially flights by Russian jets. It's very clear that this is the reason behind conscription. Pete's earlier post explains about rape: it's all about broadening the definition and more women feeling able to come forward - which is a good thing.

So gang rape by immigrants is a figment of the imaginatiion?

 

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265873/refugee-rape-gangs-sweden-dawn-perlmutter

 

Russia is certainly a threat, not just to Sweden but to all of NATO. A typical Bear patrol would fly around the Kola Peninsular, on through the Iceland - Faroes gap then maybe south (remaining over International waters) sometimes all the way to the north west coast of Portugal. The increased threat from Russia is not Sweden specific. They are closer than UK to Russia but Norway also shares a border. Why is it that only Sweden has yesterday reintroduced Conscription? I do accept the increased threat from Russia but there is more to it than that imho.

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[Cornish Steve]

When it comes to helping foreign citizens escape from poverty (whether foreign aid, immigrants working minimum wage jobs and sending funds back home, or whatever), I would point out that, in the last ten years along, 140 million Indians were lifted out of poverty. To me, this reveals that outsourcing is by far the most effective form of aid the world has ever known. We should be doing more, not less. It's an example of how free trade benefits many people.

 

Personally, immigration has nothing to do with my stance on Brexit. It's about not wanting to be part of a political union even while wanting to be part of a free trade zone. Political unions are very difficult to achieve when participants have radically different cultures, speak different languages, and hold to different values. Maybe one day the moment will be right, but that moment is not now.

[Cornish Steve]

So gang rape by immigrants is a figment of the imaginatiion?

 

 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265873/refugee-rape-gangs-sweden-dawn-perlmutter

 

Personally, I trust the word of the many Swedes I know from around that country over journalists with an agenda. The person here with the most credibility is Pete: he's not going to lie about this own country any more than you or I would.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Cornish Steve

[johnh]

Wheras posts linked to left wing, elitist liberal leaning periodicals are ok? My link was also reported in the telegraph, independendent, guardian and mail.

 

How about this link then? 120 billion a year is the estimated cost of corruption. How the hell they estimated it I dont know.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/organized-crime-and-human-trafficking/corruption_en

 

Or maybe the EU itself admitting that corruption across the EU is breathtaking.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387

 

And in the EU's own study, the UK was found to be the least corrupt of all 28 nations.

 

The EU Home Affairs Commissioner says that the 120bn is an under-estimate and it is probably a lot higher.

Edited March 3, 2017 by johnh

[Guest rusty747]

Personally, I trust the word of the many Swedes I know from around that country over journalists with an agenda. The person here with the most credibility is Pete: he's not going to lie about this own country any more than you or I would.

One of the rapes was broadcast live on fb. How can that possibly be agenda driven? Are you seriously denying that these rapes ever happened?

 

As regards India. Have you been there recently? It is certainly improving its overall lot but if ever a country was riddled with corruption, a caste society and class restrictions then you need look no further.

Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[Guest rusty747]

When it comes to helping foreign citizens escape from poverty (whether foreign aid, immigrants working minimum wage jobs and sending funds back home, or whatever), I would point out that, in the last ten years along, 140 million Indians were lifted out of poverty. To me, this reveals that outsourcing is by far the most effective form of aid the world has ever known. We should be doing more, not less. It's an example of how free trade benefits many people.

 

Personally, immigration has nothing to do with my stance on Brexit. It's about not wanting to be part of a political union even while wanting to be part of a free trade zone. Political unions are very difficult to achieve when participants have radically different cultures, speak different languages, and hold to different values. Maybe one day the moment will be right, but that moment is not now.

I actually agree with much (not all) of what you say. The problem with the EU is that The European Free Trade Association (known to you and I as the Common Market) was hi jacked by politics and politicians and is becoming a Federal United States of Europe. If the countries of Europe had just signed Free Trade agreements with each other we would be in a far better state now than we are. But Juncker, Merkel and their ilk are not going to be deterred so the only option for UK is the one we voted for and Brexit, it is. Edited March 3, 2017 by rusty747

[Peter H]

No they don't. I live in Dubai in an estate of various nationalities. There are at least three swedish families within 100 yards of our house and they are all distinctly pissed off at how Sweden is spending tax revenue.

 

National Service now having to be reintroduced, Massive increase in rape, and people try to hold Sweden up as an immigration success story! If that is success, then what are the criteria for failure?

 

Maybe UK can spend some of this £45 billion on improving NHS, benefits for ex sevicemen and women, public services, defence etc. http://www.westmonster.com/45-billion-brexit-budget-boost/

 

 

 

Peter H has already explained the rape thing based on stats rather than based on the opinion of some people he knows (even if he can point to as much as three swedish families as a sample size) ..

 

About the "westmonster" (which is a UKIP website by the way) article:

In the Autumn Statement last November borrowing was projected to be over 230 billion £ between 2016-2017 and 2020-2021. That figure has now been adjusted to a number 45 billion £ lower. That however does not mean you have an extra 45 billion to spend, it just means you have to borrow less.

 

Also, Sweden has the highest tax compliance rate in Europe and that article about reintroducing national service says nothing about it being because of immigrants, nothing.

Fact is that using military against gen pop is heavily restricted in Sweden due to incidents in the past (Ådalen, Raggarupproret) so to say that national service has been brought back to battle the effects of immigration is ridiculous.

Its a reaction to Russias increasing violations of the swedish borders.

 

Ill go over the rape thing ones more to see if it sinks in.

 

In 2005 a new classification was launched in Sweden. Making a lot of offences previously classed as sexual abuse now be classed as rape.

Sweden get a lot of stick because they seem to be a lot more meticulous about their stats than other countries are.

If a man rapes his girlfriend or wife twice a night, every night in a year. Sweden would mark that as 2 times 365 rapes (730 different rapes) In other countries it might get classed as one instance and one rape.

Women in Sweden (being that its the second best country in the world to live in if youre a woman. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/denmark-named-the-world-s-best-country-for-women-to-live-in-a6824456.html)are more prone to report a rape against them. They feel protected by the society to handle their case. Imagine what its like to live in Russia, where its soon legal to beat your wife, or India, or Saudi Arabia where you might get stoned to death if you get raped.

 

5918 rapes in Sweden during 2015 (no numbers have been released for 2016 yet). However, forecasts say that there was around 6500 rapes in Sweden during 2016. So a 10% increase. BUT the same numbers were reported in 2014. In fact, rape rates have been steady around 5500-6500 since the new classification in 2005.

 

In 2015 the rape rates dropped by 10%. It was also the year Sweden accepted 163 000 immigrants.

 

Crime rates are on the rise now, but the category of crime thats increasing the most is computer related crimes. Hardly a thing immigrants can be blamed for. Petty theft is also on the rise. Perhaps something immigrants coult be responsible for but no one knows since Sweden does not register ethnicity. So any numbers you might find on the internet showing otherwise are false and totally made up.

 

Despite the internet writing about no go zones there are no such things in Sweden. They are probably more of go go zones since police have to go there more often and have a heavy presence there. Its again not due to immigration, but more of a socio-economic reason.

 

Despite internet talking about Malmö and their handgranades, violent crime is dropping in Sweden. You are far less likely to be injured by a criminal today then you were in the 70s and 80s.

HOWEVER, if you ARE a criminal in Sweden you might be in danger since the major portion of violent crime in the country is part of gang related violence. Gangs on gangs.

 

Now to the important part. Is everything great in Sweden? A lot of things point to that fact. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/sweden

Sweden is the #1 country in the world for Citizenship

The #2 country in the world in open for business

The #2 country for quality of life

And the #5th best country in the world in total according to the link above.

 

HOWEVER we do have massive problems with segregation in the country. Which needs to be addressed as soon as possible. Every time a politician says that everything is great I cringe, because they are making the problem worse.

We are great at standing up for humanity on the surface but we need to solve the job situation for the immigrants that come here. That cant be done at the same time as the government is afraid of lowering the entry wages for immigrants an people who are long term unemployed.

 

Its better to have a low income than to accept welfare. Its also a better way to fell like you are part of the society.

[Peter H]

One of the rapes was broadcast live on fb. How can that possibly be agenda driven? Are you seriously denying that these rapes ever happened?

 

As regards India. Have you been there recently? It is certainly improving its overall lot but if ever a country was riddled with corruption, a caste society and class restrictions then you need look no further.

There is actually no proof that this ever happened. There was a film, but it did not capture an actual rape

[Cornish Steve]

Ok, in bite sized chunks for the hard of thinking. Let me break it down for you.

 

Said friends had no job in Sweden but could get one (a good one) in Dubai. This was 10+ years ago. Rather than sell the family home they let other family members stay there rent free. This, according to Sweden tax law does not make them non resident for tax purposes. While they approved initially of where tax revenue was going and remaining family was happy in Sweden all was well.

 

Now, a combination of law and order issues and taxation (where its spent, not how much) has persuaded the extended family members to come to Dubai, for the family home to be sold and for the first time, for the entire family to pay little or no tax to Sweden.

 

But, to get back to the original point. The assertion was that all Swedes were happy to pay tax. I just demonstrated that they are not all happy to pay tax. And that unhappiness is driven by the changing ways in which the tax revenue is being spent.

 

Clearer?

 

I'd be very surprised if all the citizens of any country agreed with all its policies. Of course some will agree and some will disagree. We usually find out which is the dominant group because their party wins elections.

[Cornish Steve]

One of the rapes was broadcast live on fb. How can that possibly be agenda driven? Are you seriously denying that these rapes ever happened?

 

As regards India. Have you been there recently? It is certainly improving its overall lot but if ever a country was riddled with corruption, a caste society and class restrictions then you need look no further.

 

Yes. I've been to India over 40 times, to many of the states. It has awful problems and considerable corruption, the improvement is tangible - especially in the technology areas. Their problems today are nothing compared to their problems a couple of decades ago.