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Brexit...


Hafnia

Referendum  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. In or out?

    • Stay in
      26
    • Leave
      24

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Guest rusty747

i can live in Switzerland because I'm an EU citizen, making my permit a lot more simple. If I was non-EU, getting a job here is massively more complicated and permanent residency is very difficult to get - things I need and want.

I have nothing to be grateful for with Brexit. At all.

I hope things get resolved quickly and fairly for you Matt.

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I hope things get resolved quickly and fairly for you Matt.

thanks man.

 

Just a note on you statement before that leaving is a business decision not a citizenship decision. Whilst that's mostly correct, it's important to note that without the EU citizenship, that business decision might not be possible. Certainly in my case as I don't have a degree.

 

Without my EU citizenship I would've been stuck in the UK where I struggled to find even the most basic job. Moving to Holland launched my career and, nearly 11 years on I've worked all around Europe, settled in a good job in a stunning part of the world. All down to the freedom being an EU citizen.

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Guest rusty747

thanks man.

Just a note on you statement before that leaving is a business decision not a citizenship decision. Whilst that's mostly correct, it's important to note that without the EU citizenship, that business decision might not be possible. Certainly in my case as I don't have a degree.

Without my EU citizenship I would've been stuck in the UK where I struggled to find even the most basic job. Moving to Holland launched my career and, nearly 11 years on I've worked all around Europe, settled in a good job in a stunning part of the world. All down to the freedom being an EU citizen.

And I think thats the first thing that PM May tried to address but it was the EU who said no.

 

I totally agree that you should have, what in the aviation world we call, 'Grandfather Rights' which mean that if the rules change after you have made a commitment based on pre existing rules then the pre existing rules must continue to be honoured. It has been applied to such things as pilot licences, type ratings etc and has made the transition from CAA to EASA licences slightly less daunting than would otherwise have been the case.

 

I would first hope that EU will agree to such a ruling. If not, I would hope that Switzerland would be sympathetic to your situation.

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Guest rusty747

I'm hoping for a favourable resolution for my friends living in Germany and Italy, along with the 2 million others who didn't get a say

Me too. I am pro brexit but we can't use individuals as bargaining chips. And, to be fair, it is not the UK that is doing this to you. It is the EU.

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Guest rusty747

its the UK that started this.

Well there we must disagree.

 

The people of the UK have been saying for many years that they were unhappy with the way the EU was heading. Cameron misjudged the true mood of the British people when he called the referendum and the British people voted for brexit.

 

I take issue with the fact that the UK started this as it was merely a response to the EU stripping away our sovereignty one layer at a time.If the EU had listened to the UK people this might have been averted. But now it is too late and Brexit is the right decision imho.

 

The EU is to blame, but playing the blame game wont help anyone. Brexit is happening. Now, it's about making a success of it. Blaming the UK for starting it is akin to blaming a little kid for finally hitting back against a bully - and sitting the bully on his ass in the process.

Edited by rusty747
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I dont really know where to begin with a reply to this. There is so much material to work with.

The big issue is always citizenship. A British citizen is a British citizen no matter where in the world he may live and he always has British citizenship rights. We understand your personal feelings on the matter Palfy but they are unconstitutional. If you dont like the British constitution perhaps it should be you who considers getting another passport.

I dont consider myself more or less British than any other British citizen, but I am and will remain, proud to be British.

If British citizens leave UK because of economic opportunity, that is a business decision not a citizenship decision they have made. In many cases, the rewards of their overseas employment filter back to UK in greater amounts than any UK tax levy would have realised.

I have contributed almost 40 years of National Insurance contributions, 16 years of income tax and 12 years of my life to the British military. You have no idea what personal and business/financial connections I still maintain within UK, yet you feel you have the right to be judge and jury on who should and should not retain British citizenship. Its unconstitutional Palfy and that sort of thinking is only going to give you ulcers.

Thanks for your concerns over my health, and yes you do have British passport that says you are British, but your lack of residency means you are no longer classed as a person who could vote on the rights and wrongs of the E.U, so there for your own government have told you got no rights on the issue, so on that basis why would I be interested in your opinion it's irrelevant and counts for nothing.
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And disagree we will. The Tories stripped the country of its assets decades ago, and again in its recent stint.

 

Some people might've been unhappy, many were also happy. But the big issue is exactly the point you made - the politicians had no clue about the publics mood, which shows how out of touch they are and how fucking useless our system is. Not just the Tories, Labour too.

 

The politicians used the vote as an opportunity to further their careers, they didn't care about the aftermath either way. How anyone is comforted that they're leading the country baffles me.

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Guest rusty747

Thanks for your concerns over my health, and yes you do have British passport that says you are British, but your lack of residency means you are no longer classed as a person who could vote on the rights and wrongs of the E.U, so there for your own government have told you got no rights on the issue, so on that basis why would I be interested in your opinion it's irrelevant and counts for nothing.

You obviously haven't been keeping up with current affairs Palfy.

 

Part of PM May's manifesto was to restore full voting rights to all expats in my situation. That is likely to happen well before the next election. Ergo, I have the same voting rights as you the next time we vote.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/expats-given-vote-for-life-uk-elections-government-says

Edited by rusty747
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Guest rusty747

And disagree we will. The Tories stripped the country of its assets decades ago, and again in its recent stint.

Some people might've been unhappy, many were also happy. But the big issue is exactly the point you made - the politicians had no clue about the publics mood, which shows how out of touch they are and how fucking useless our system is. Not just the Tories, Labour too.

The politicians used the vote as an opportunity to further their careers, they didn't care about the aftermath either way. How anyone is comforted that they're leading the country baffles me.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. Keeps the debate healthy. But are you suggesting that Cameron wasn't interested in a referendum unless he was certain that the outcome would have been Remain? I think it was obvious that the vote was going to be close.

 

I am no fan of career politicians either but the fact of the matter is that the British people voted for Brexit. And the current mob in charge of UK have an obligation to deliver it. Having an extensive post mortem over Brexit is wasted effort imho. Its happening. Lets make it work for everyone.

Edited by rusty747
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Nothing wrong with disagreeing. Keeps the debate healthy. But are you suggesting that Cameron wasn't interested in a referendum unless he was certain that the outcome would have been Remain? I think it was obvious that the vote was going to be close.

 

I am no fan of career politicians but the fact of the matter is that the British people voted for Brexit. And the current mob in charge of UK have an obligation to deliver it.

i think his arrogance meant he didn't care, thinking it'd be a white wash to remain. Hence the complete lack of putting forward the case.

 

The politicians did it for themselves, not the public and now we have these toff fuckers with free-reign. They caused so many of the issues with the country and deflected blame to the EU.

 

It's like the people have voted to have a cure for a headache, but don't know the cure is having an anyurism. All because those in charge didn't inform them and, worse still, flat out lied to them.

Edited by Matt
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Guest rusty747

i think his arrogance meant he didn't care, thinking it'd be a white wash to remain. Hence the complete lack of putting forward the case.

The politicians did it for themselves, not the public and now we have these toff fuckers with free-reign. They caused so many of the issues with the country and deflected blame to the EU.

It's like the people have voted to have a cure for a headache, but don't know the cure is having an anyurism. All because those in charge didn't inform them and, worse still, flat out lied to them.

Well, there was certainly misinformation from both camps. But crying over spilt milk isn't going to change anything.

 

I am glad that brexit is happening but that doesn't mean I am unsympathetic to people in your situation. I think more could be achieved for people such as yourself though by looking forwards and considering future options, rather than moaning about what has already happened.

 

Not always easy, I know.

Edited by rusty747
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Well, there was certainly misinformation from both camps. But crying over spilt milk isn't going to change anything.

 

I am glad that brexit is happening but that doesn't mean I am unsympathetic to people in your situation. I think more could be achieved for people such as yourself though by looking forwards and considering future options, rather than moaning about what has already happened.

 

Not always easy, I know.

i know, and I know you and many other leave voters will be sympathetic. Not much comfort though, especially if I do have to leave everything.

 

I'm not moaning, im angry and worried. Not just for my situation, but that the country is in the hands of politicians who don't care about the people. Not to mention incompetent in a lot of cases. And as I keep mentioning, there is nothing resembling a strategy so there is no looking forward, we're in limbo.

 

I know the EU isn't perfect, but i strongly believe is necessary for the good of the country and world. When our politicians are acting like self-indulgent teenagers, the EU acted as parents; tough love for their own good in some cases but offered so much support and freedom. Now those teenagers have left the house, but have no idea where to go.

 

But, we'll see what happens.

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Guest rusty747

i know, and I know you and many other leave voters will be sympathetic. Not much comfort though, especially if I do have to leave everything.

I'm not moaning, im angry and worried. Not just for my situation, but that the country is in the hands of politicians who don't care about the people. Not to mention incompetent in a lot of cases. And as I keep mentioning, there is nothing resembling a strategy so there is no looking forward, we're in limbo.

I know the EU isn't perfect, but i strongly believe is necessary for the good of the country and world. When our politicians are acting like self-indulgent teenagers, the EU acted as parents; tough love for their own good in some cases but offered so much support and freedom. Now those teenagers have left the house, but have no idea where to go.

But, we'll see what happens.

UK Government certainly isn't perfect but I think you are being a bit harsh on them. Similarly, I think the EU is nowhere near the mature parent that you try to portray it as.

 

I actually believe that PM May is quite rightly keeping her powder dry ahead of triggering Article 50 and will pleasantly surprise a few people with the outcome of Brexit and for the future of UK.

 

But that doesn't help you right now of course.

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UK Government certainly isn't perfect but I think you are being a bit harsh on them. Similarly, I think the EU is nowhere near the mature parent that you try to portray it as.

 

I actually believe that PM May is quite rightly keeping her powder dry ahead of triggering Article 50 and will pleasantly surprise a few people with the outcome of Brexit and for the future of UK.

 

But that doesn't help you right now of course.

its no secret that I despise the Tories; I honestly cannot communicate my complete disgust for them. Actually did one of those independent polls to see who you would vote for based on the parties policies. Apparently I agree more with UKIP rhan the Tories, but not by much. I'm very much a Green supporter apparently

 

I see the EU as a young parent, not mature yet. As for May, she was one of the teenagers who was saying "let's stay in the house" but now has to lead the way to the new home. It's baffling and when I listen to her, it's clear as say that she doesn't have a clue. Which is fair enough, because she's been tasked with sorting out a fucking mess

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For sure, I'm eligible to become a dual citizen; however, as a matter of personal conviction, I will never swear allegiance to a flag. I'm proud of my Cornish roots - which is more a psychological thing. You have to want to change citizenship, and I've never wanted to.

 

What would you do if the situation were reversed? If you were working in Britain for an extended period of time, would you feel obliged to become a British citizen and then be forced to travel with your British passport?

Thanks Steve. Are all your kids American citizens?

 

I'd switch to wherever was my permanent home. I've wanted to live abroad (wife doesn't) and would love to give up my US citizenship. But that's just me. I'm from here but not a nationalist about it.

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Thanks Steve. Are all your kids American citizens?

 

I'd switch to wherever was my permanent home. I've wanted to live abroad (wife doesn't) and would love to give up my US citizenship. But that's just me. I'm from here but not a nationalist about it.

same here. As soon as I'm able, I'll apply for Swiss citizenship
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its no secret that I despise the Tories; I honestly cannot communicate my complete disgust for them. Actually did one of those independent polls to see who you would vote for based on the parties policies. Apparently I agree more with UKIP rhan the Tories, but not by much. I'm very much a Green supporter apparently

 

I see the EU as a young parent, not mature yet. As for May, she was one of the teenagers who was saying "let's stay in the house" but now has to lead the way to the new home. It's baffling and when I listen to her, it's clear as say that she doesn't have a clue. Which is fair enough, because she's been tasked with sorting out a fucking mess

May is more like a teenager who refuses to pay keep, and think it's unreasonable that she's been asked to move out of 'her room' .
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Thanks for your concerns over my health, and yes you do have British passport that says you are British, but your lack of residency means you are no longer classed as a person who could vote on the rights and wrongs of the E.U, so there for your own government have told you got no rights on the issue, so on that basis why would I be interested in your opinion it's irrelevant and counts for nothing.

completely disagree and that level of ignorance is why the term remoaners exist.

 

I don't have the right to vote on how the country is run but rusty has served his country and paid/countinues to pay (if I understood correctly) his taxes - he has every right to vote. The right to vote on the EU and citizenship is the right right of everyone who has a British passport, resident or expat. Unfortunately that right wasn't extended to everyone living abroad and that part is just wrong.

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Guest rusty747

completely disagree and that level of ignorance is why the term remoaners exist.

I don't have the right to vote on how the country is run but rusty has served his country and paid/countinues to pay (if I understood correctly) his taxes - he has every right to vote. The right to vote on the EU and citizenship is the right right of everyone who has a British passport, resident or expat. Unfortunately that right wasn't extended to everyone living abroad and that part is just wrong.

Thanks Matt. Totally agree with you there.

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completely disagree and that level of ignorance is why the term remoaners exist.

I don't have the right to vote on how the country is run but rusty has served his country and paid/countinues to pay (if I understood correctly) his taxes - he has every right to vote. The right to vote on the EU and citizenship is the right right of everyone who has a British passport, resident or expat. Unfortunately that right wasn't extended to everyone living abroad and that part is just wrong.

That part isn't wrong that if you don't live in the country you should have a say on what happens in the country, and no he doesn't pay taxes to this country, he makes a national insurance contribution so he can fleece us for a full state pension, he's all about his selfish self which are plain to see in some of the comments he has made.

The only reassuring thing for me is that he now lives in a country that share is ideals and long may it stay that way.

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Just for the record, and as an aside from this discussion, I have enormous respect for those who serve in the military. They put their lives on the line to defend our way of life, including our ability to disagree with others in a free society. Thank you, Rusty, for your service on behalf of our country.

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Guest rusty747

That part isn't wrong that if you don't live in the country you should have a say on what happens in the country, and no he doesn't pay taxes to this country, he makes a national insurance contribution so he can fleece us for a full state pension, he's all about his selfish self which are plain to see in some of the comments he has made.

The only reassuring thing for me is that he now lives in a country that share is ideals and long may it stay that way.

Palfy, old chap. Steady on or you will surely give yourself an ulcer.

 

First, you were wrong in a previous post to state that I could not vote. The government has recognised the unfairness of the present system so I will have exactly the same voting rights as you, come the next election. You will just have to get used to it I am afraid.

 

I make Nat Ins Contributions for several reasons - only one of which is to protect state pension. Why wouldn't I? Are you telling me you would ignore the professional financial advice if you were in my situation?

 

I dont think I am selfish, and I dont place any value on what you think either, but it would be stupid and neglecting my responsibilities to my family not to maximise benefits wouldn't it? I do think about others and only on this board in a prior post espoused sympathy for someone on the other side of the brexit argument to me.

 

I will in all likelihood be retiring to Malaysia, where we have a nice 5 bedroom penthouse with separate maids rooms, full sea view, huge balconies, fully paid off using the profit from playing the property market while we lived in Singapore. None of that has anything to do with politics or brexit, it was just good business sense. And, therein, I think we have found the source of your ignorant vitriol Palfy. You are jealous! You are the sort of person who would rather expend energy trying to drag other people down to your standard rather than aspiring to raise yourself to theirs. Very sad, but its your life.

Edited by rusty747
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Guest rusty747

Just for the record, and as an aside from this discussion, I have enormous respect for those who serve in the military. They put their lives on the line to defend our way of life, including our ability to disagree with others in a free society. Thank you, Rusty, for your service on behalf of our country.

Thanks Cornish. My contribution was nothing compared to that of many of my friends who came back from Iraq in a box, but, on their behalf, thank you.

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Thanks Cornish. My contribution was nothing compared to that of many of my friends who came back from Iraq in a box, but, on their behalf, thank you.

me too. I never understood it, along with national pride, but I've got massive respect for those who do.
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Guest rusty747

me too. I never understood it, along with national pride, but I've got massive respect for those who do.

The one thing I can tell you with 100% certainty is that we might get sent to war for any number of different reasons but when the bullets start flying you are there for one reason only - to not let down the man stood next to you.

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Palfy, old chap. Steady on or you will surely give yourself an ulcer.

First, you were wrong in a previous post to state that I could not vote. The government has recognised the unfairness of the present system so I will have exactly the same voting rights as you, come the next election. You will just have to get used to it I am afraid.

I make Nat Ins Contributions for several reasons - only one of which is to protect state pension. Why wouldn't I? Are you telling me you would ignore the professional financial advice if you were in my situation?

I dont think I am selfish, and I dont place any value on what you think either, but it would be stupid and neglecting my responsibilities to my family not to maximise benefits wouldn't it? I do think about others and only on this board in a prior post espoused sympathy for someone on the other side of the brexit argument to me.

I will in all likelihood be retiring to Malaysia, where we have a nice 5 bedroom penthouse with separate maids rooms, full sea view, huge balconies, fully paid off using the profit from playing the property market while we lived in Singapore. None of that has anything to do with politics or brexit, it was just good business sense. And, therein, I think we have found the source of your ignorant vitriol Palfy. You are jealous! You are the sort of person who would rather expend energy trying to drag other people down to your standard rather than aspiring to raise yourself to theirs. Very sad, but its your life.

listen I'm far from jealous of what you have or may not have, I don't boast about my wealth, but I would be fairly confident in saying that I pay more in taxes a year than you currently earn.

But I pay my taxes here and support this country with my money not just my mouth, that's why you didn't get a vote so start excepting that fact that what you think is of no relevance.

Enjoy your retirement in Malaysia with your maids running around at your beck and call, should suit you down to the ground it's evident that from the way you talk that you have very little respect for people you might consider below you.

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Guest rusty747

listen I'm far from jealous of what you have or may not have, I don't boast about my wealth, but I would be fairly confident in saying that I pay more in taxes a year than you currently earn.

But I pay my taxes here and support this country with my money not just my mouth, that's why you didn't get a vote so start excepting that fact that what you think is of no relevance.

Enjoy your retirement in Malaysia with your maids running around at your beck and call, should suit you down to the ground it's evident that from the way you talk that you have very little respect for people you might consider below you.

Palfy, do you not keep up with current affairs?

 

Take a minute out to click on the link.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/expats-given-vote-for-life-uk-elections-government-says

 

So, I will have the same voting rights as you by the next election. You are therefore wrong Palfy but dont seem to have the cojones to admit what the rest of us can see so very easily.

 

I don't consider our maids to be below me. I consider them to be an important part in the happy and successful running of our household. If I did otherwise, they wouldn't stay. Our last maid was with us for 9 years and the current ones are both over 4 years. They are well treated, well paid and very happy. The same goes for our gardener (admittedly only part time) and our driver. But, lets not have the facts get in the way of your views on how life is, or should be, shall we.

 

Thanks for wishing me well in retirement. We could do it right now but we are happy in Dubai for the time being so we will probably move just before our little girl starts primary school - private, of course. The school offers both UK and IB syllabi and we are unsure at this stage which route would be best for her, but no rush on that score. As you seem so interested in our retirement I have attached a pic of the view from our lounge balcony. Not a bad spot to start the day from with freshly brewed coffee, toast and fresh orange juice. And a great place for a sundowner or three with friends in the evening. Enjoy.

post-7751-0-52905700-1488650391_thumb.jpg

Edited by rusty747
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