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Referendum  

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2 hours ago, johnh said:

Matt, I see the dictatorial jackboot of the EU is on the throat of Switzerland.

Oh? I’ve not heard anything. You mean this?

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-eu-relations_parliament-sets-conditions-on-further-eu-payments/44833094

think you’ll find that’s Switzerland with the upper hand of the negotiations, trying for something that benefits of both sides. Hardly a boot on the throat :lol: 

it seems the Swiss recognises that making the EU stronger means their biggest trading partner becomes more wealthy, meaning more trade possibilities and more money for the Swiss... if only the UK had some foresight past their own party issues...

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On 18/03/2019 at 18:27, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47614074

Oh the irony😂.

'Conservative MP James Gray, who plans to vote for the deal after rejecting it twice, said he was "absolutely furious"'

He's my MP I hope you feel sympathetic towards me, now you know the sort of area I live in full of horsey okay yah's Tory heart land.

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As I was saying a few weeks back the extension is coming which as I said then will increase the chances of a 2nd referendum, and us remaining which will fuck Macron right off can't stand what he stands for like a big percentage of his own people the man is a snake.

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22 hours ago, Matt said:

Oh? I’ve not heard anything. You mean this?

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-eu-relations_parliament-sets-conditions-on-further-eu-payments/44833094

think you’ll find that’s Switzerland with the upper hand of the negotiations, trying for something that benefits of both sides. Hardly a boot on the throat :lol: 

it seems the Swiss recognises that making the EU stronger means their biggest trading partner becomes more wealthy, meaning more trade possibilities and more money for the Swiss... if only the UK had some foresight past their own party issues...

The headline in the Telegraph Business said  'Switzerland holding out against EU ultimatum'.  The article states:   Switzerland is facing an excruciating squeeze.  Its old bilateral accords with the EU are no longer deemed acceptable.  Brussels wants to shut down the idiosyncratic 'Swiss  model' once and for all.  The country has until the end of June to submit to the EU's new framework agreement, or see its trading and financial access progressively cut off.  "They were given a six-month ultimatum in December said Peter Cleppe (who he?) from Open Europe in Brussels.  If the EU carries out its threat, Switzerland will see its market access revoked"   The Swiss must accept the sweeping jurisdiction of the ECJ and 'dynamic alignment' of EU legislation over migration, social security rules, and other key areas of policy.

All sounds very democratic to me.

Incidentally Matt, I remember reading some time ago about the multiple times the Swiss have rejected joining the EU in referendums.  Can't remember how many, 5 or 6 from memory. The EU never get the message, do they.

 

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1 hour ago, johnh said:

The headline in the Telegraph Business said  'Switzerland holding out against EU ultimatum'.  The article states:   Switzerland is facing an excruciating squeeze.  Its old bilateral accords with the EU are no longer deemed acceptable.  Brussels wants to shut down the idiosyncratic 'Swiss  model' once and for all.  The country has until the end of June to submit to the EU's new framework agreement, or see its trading and financial access progressively cut off.  "They were given a six-month ultimatum in December said Peter Cleppe (who he?) from Open Europe in Brussels.  If the EU carries out its threat, Switzerland will see its market access revoked"   The Swiss must accept the sweeping jurisdiction of the ECJ and 'dynamic alignment' of EU legislation over migration, social security rules, and other key areas of policy.

All sounds very democratic to me.

Incidentally Matt, I remember reading some time ago about the multiple times the Swiss have rejected joining the EU in referendums.  Can't remember how many, 5 or 6 from memory. The EU never get the message, do they.

 

Pieter Cleppe is a Belgian eurosceptic.  One of those guys you go to if you want a negative EU-quote from a non-English person.

I think you are holding the EU very strange and oddly high standards.  If a country chooses not to be an EU member, it is undemocratic of the EU to deny them the benefits of membership?

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5 hours ago, johnh said:

The headline in the Telegraph Business said  'Switzerland holding out against EU ultimatum'.  The article states:   Switzerland is facing an excruciating squeeze.  Its old bilateral accords with the EU are no longer deemed acceptable.  Brussels wants to shut down the idiosyncratic 'Swiss  model' once and for all.  The country has until the end of June to submit to the EU's new framework agreement, or see its trading and financial access progressively cut off.  "They were given a six-month ultimatum in December said Peter Cleppe (who he?) from Open Europe in Brussels.  If the EU carries out its threat, Switzerland will see its market access revoked"   The Swiss must accept the sweeping jurisdiction of the ECJ and 'dynamic alignment' of EU legislation over migration, social security rules, and other key areas of policy.

All sounds very democratic to me.

Incidentally Matt, I remember reading some time ago about the multiple times the Swiss have rejected joining the EU in referendums.  Can't remember how many, 5 or 6 from memory. The EU never get the message, do they.

 

You might as well quote Fox News at me with that "source" and extract :lol: It's not even close to the truth, I already explained how things are actually progressing, despite the Torygraph fear-rags opinion. 

No, the Swiss don't want to be in the EU because, as they have been for centuries, they want to remain neutral. It says more about them wanting to remain that way than a criticism of the EU. 

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Fucking hilarious this....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47647515

How can she tell the "British public" she's on their side when the British public is split down the 'king middle; when she wants a third vote on her deal (having been obliterated twice) but won't give the public a second say after one side won in a very close result? Total and bare-faced hypocrisy of the highest order

Incidentally (maybe John could ask her over a cup of tea:P) what would she campaign for in a second referendum if it came to that? She's a remainer at heart who's been pushing to leave, conviction politician obviously.

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@holystove, do you know of a European law that prevents taxation without representation? It's exactly the case I'm in and have been for a decade, but wondering if it's something I can investigate

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8 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/21/705437807/petition-to-cancel-brexit-breaks-u-k-government-website-tops-1-million-signature

 

democracy at work! (sarcasm)  1 million have signed the petition and yet the UK government hasn't done anything about it.

And they won’t. It’s like they’re trying to placate me with a worthless say...

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20 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Again Macron is sounding off what a horrible little man he is he thinks he is the voice of the EU, he’s an arrogant prick with small man syndrome. 

He partly is, France is one of the biggest members after all. I quite like him 

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10 hours ago, Matt said:

@holystove, do you know of a European law that prevents taxation without representation? It's exactly the case I'm in and have been for a decade, but wondering if it's something I can investigate

not that I'm aware of.

40 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Again Macron is sounding off what a horrible little man he is he thinks he is the voice of the EU, he’s an arrogant prick with small man syndrome. 

strange obsession with Macron you have. he's saying exactly the same as the other leaders, which in this case is the bleeding obvious.  Theresa May keeps forcing parliament to vote on the same thing, a short extension only makes sense if she succeeds. otherwise its no deal or long extension.   

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1 hour ago, holystove said:

not that I'm aware of.

strange obsession with Macron you have. he's saying exactly the same as the other leaders, which in this case is the bleeding obvious.  Theresa May keeps forcing parliament to vote on the same thing, a short extension only makes sense if she succeeds. otherwise its no deal or long extension.   

I wouldn't call it strange, what he said was to basically give them one more opportunity to vote on a deal and if it doesn't get through they have to go with no deal, which is exactly what he has wanted for years, he never mentioned a long extension he wouldn't want that option because that would pretty much smooth the ground for a new referendum which would likely be a vote for remain, and he definitely doesn't want that he believes he can make France financially stronger with us out the way by trying to poach what's good here for France

The little weasel as been trying take the financial sector from London to Paris since he was voted President both the private sector and EU sector then he started trying to take the EU pharmaceutical businesses to France.

I thought you were supposed to be an EU lawyer and switched on with these things, haven't you thought that there's a bigger game being played here that the remain MPs here are doing the negotiations with the EU negotiators who want us to stay, this is going to be steered into trying to set the way for us to stay.

He not saying exactly what the other leaders have been saying he voices his opinions all the time for the financial gain he feel France will gain if we go.

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Well I've said before I disagree with your opinion he wants a no-deal; no need to get into it again.

 I indeed have a background in EU law (I work in insolvency now), I am not a politician though so I'm not 'switched on' with what remainers and EU politicians are cooking up.  I certainly don't see any of that going on.

Macron has said short extension without the deal is impossible.  He also said a long extension requires UK to change its red lines.  This is not really a controversial view among other EU leaders.

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2 minutes ago, holystove said:

Well I've said before I disagree with your opinion he wants a no-deal; no need to get into it again.

 I indeed have a background in EU law (I work in insolvency now), I am not a politician though so I'm not 'switched on' with what remainers and EU politicians are cooking up.  I certainly don't see any of that going on.

Macron has said short extension without the deal is impossible.  He also said a long extension requires UK to change its red lines.  This is not really a controversial view among other EU leaders.

Well hopefully you will be quite busy in your insolvency practice there should be enough casualties to keep you going for a while.

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On 20/03/2019 at 16:14, Matt said:

You might as well quote Fox News at me with that "source" and extract :lol: It's not even close to the truth, I already explained how things are actually progressing, despite the Torygraph fear-rags opinion. 

No, the Swiss don't want to be in the EU because, as they have been for centuries, they want to remain neutral. It says more about them wanting to remain that way than a criticism of the EU. 

Well I suppose we will know in June.

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9 minutes ago, johnh said:

Like Merkel,  Macron is on borrowed time.

To be honest John I can deal with Merkel when the poison dwarf started stepping out of line in the past Merkel reined him in and stuck him back in his box.

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19 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Well hopefully you will be quite busy in your insolvency practice there should be enough casualties to keep you going for a while.

Thanks, great job by the UK creating economic hardship for thousands of companies 👍

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31 minutes ago, Matt said:

What’s happening in June?

I'm going on my son in laws to be stag do in Bournemouth, do you fancy it wait and see what John's got in mind before you commit.

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The proganda used by leave and the force of May to commit at the detriment of the majority is very concerning, add to that the EU report on the poverty in the UK as well. If this was a third world country does this shit and we'd be using it as an excuse to go force democracy on them. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lloyd-russell-moyle-labour-mp-attack-kemptown-brighton-theresa-may-brexit-a8834366.html?fbclid=IwAR0WMaJGUOAIO3EpqjDiumuxwt5dwCh70PbtVx0jRt35ycNUaG1wxtxQ7lY

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53 minutes ago, johnh said:

According to the Telegraph its the expiry of the three months the EU have given Switzerland to comply with their demands.

Aaah. Yeah, not worried in the slightest. The Swiss and EU know they’ve got a good thing going (not perfect) and aren’t stupid enough to jepodize it. 

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1 hour ago, holystove said:

The person who created that petition has had numerous death threats and had to close down her facebook account.

unbelievable .. 😐

That's the far right for you in this country and a cross Europe, total idiots with an ideology not recognised by by the vast majority of British and other right minded Europeans.

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2 minutes ago, johnh said:

Way to go.  Got to get over 17 million.  (Plus they have to eliminate all the bogus signatures.)

I don't think the petition has had quite the level of publicity, amount of campaigning or a fraction of the timescale of the referendum John, only been up for a few days.

Bogus signatures? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47668946

Shame we couldn't eliminate all the bogus promises from the referendum campaign eh?

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Why aren't we seeing a backlash from Brexiteers to demonstrate against the fact we aren't leaving on the 29th and with a possibility we may not leave for a very long time, could it be that people who voted out in the main hope it's reversed without having to show they got it wrong, hence no backlash to what happened this week.

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6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Why aren't we seeing a backlash from Brexiteers to demonstrate against the fact we aren't leaving on the 29th and with a possibility we may not leave for a very long time, could it be that people who voted out in the main hope it's reversed without having to show they got it wrong, hence no backlash to what happened this week.

Oh but we are, just look at the size of the crowds as Farage marches; puts London to shame.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/gallery/nigel-farage-nottinghamshire-march-leave-2678541

I assume Boris is still in a fallout bunker somewhere waiting for it to be safe to emerge and take over the reins.

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1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Oh but we are, just look at the size of the crowds as Farage marches; puts London to shame.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/gallery/nigel-farage-nottinghamshire-march-leave-2678541

I assume Boris is still in a fallout bunker somewhere waiting for it to be safe to emerge and take over the reins.

😂. Boris is preparing to change his identity he's had a proper hair cut lost 4 stone in weight in a hope he won't be recognised when he starts his new life as a balanced person.

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48 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Why aren't we seeing a backlash from Brexiteers to demonstrate against the fact we aren't leaving on the 29th and with a possibility we may not leave for a very long time, could it be that people who voted out in the main hope it's reversed without having to show they got it wrong, hence no backlash to what happened this week.

I voted out, I wish it would be reversed now. What I saw as an opportunity has become a shambles. Wish it all just didn’t happen. 

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2 minutes ago, StevO said:

I voted out, I wish it would be reversed now. What I saw as an opportunity has become a shambles. Wish it all just didn’t happen. 

Sure you're far from alone mate, unfortunately not many are big enough to acknowledge their mistake even when it's so blindingly obvious it's going to be a disaster.

(Petition over 4.5 million now) 

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To be fair, and honest, I think with the right leadership leaving could be really good for the country. Someone with a plan, some ambition and some positivity, but that’s not really what we’ve ended up with. 

I don’t think voting leave was a mistake, I think the mistake is the shambles the government have made of it. I also think 60% should have been a minimum threshold for the referendum  

I actually think Boris would have made a better go of it than May, it’s just a big mess now that could have just done without. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

To be fair, and honest, I think with the right leadership leaving could be really good for the country. Someone with a plan, some ambition and some positivity, but that’s not really what we’ve ended up with. 

I don’t think voting leave was a mistake, I think the mistake is the shambles the government have made of it. I also think 60% should have been a minimum threshold for the referendum  

I actually think Boris would have made a better go of it than May, it’s just a big mess now that could have just done without. 

It was hijacked by party politics from all sides and a battle for the leadership of the Tories.

The one thing I will never forgive the Tories for is that they were the party that offered Brexit but have never had plan in place to deliver it, that in my opinion gross incompetence with the finances and welfare of this country and it's citizens.

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I agree Palfy. It was like they were so confident that remain would win that they didn’t have a plan. Now it’s just a mess. I thought if any party could get a game plan to leave and be totally selfish and only think about the UK it would be them, but they were too busy fighting. 

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36 minutes ago, StevO said:

I just hope we end up with a general election off the back of it, or at least a real leader to step forward. 

Wouldn’t be a general election though would it? 

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

Wouldn’t be a general election though would it? 

No it won’t, but I would hope anyone who comes in calls one. I’m bored of non elected leaders with agendas that haven’t been put to the population. 

Wont happen anyway. 

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54 minutes ago, StevO said:

No it won’t, but I would hope anyone who comes in calls one. I’m bored of non elected leaders with agendas that haven’t been put to the population. 

Wont happen anyway. 

I think after how many seats they conceded when May called hers, they won’t risk it. They’re more interested in keeping power than anything else. 

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3 hours ago, MikeO said:

Now past five million.

This is becoming a testament to the people who new they were right and wouldn’t give up, history will show that Brexiteers will owe the remainers the biggest debt of gratitude for correcting a huge wrong. 

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