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I'm still at a bit of a loss to understand how the turn-out (both sides) was so low given the high profile of the debate in the UK. I thought it'd be much higher, here in Greekland it was 58.7% which puts us to shame as a nation really; single biggest decision with screaming headlines (referendum aside) in decades and only 37% of people could be arsed to vote, pretty dismal and depressing that.

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17 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I'm still at a bit of a loss to understand how the turn-out (both sides) was so low given the high profile of the debate in the UK. I thought it'd be much higher, here in Greekland it was 58.7% which puts us to shame as a nation really; single biggest decision with screaming headlines (referendum aside) in decades and only 37% of people could be arsed to vote, pretty dismal and depressing that.

Do you know if more seats went to anti EU candidates or pro, I’ve always thought more Creeks were anti EU. 

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6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Do you know if more seats went to anti EU candidates or pro, I’ve always thought more Creeks were anti EU. 

"New Democracy" (right wing) gained three seats, "Golden Dawn" who are more right wing had their vote halved but still kept their three MEP's and lost votes to Greek Solution, who are extreme right (got one seat, on Farage's lap most likely).

Snap local and regional elections called which will happen next month.

There's a big difference though between the mainland and "island" Greece, the islands that have big tourist income (much of which is cash/undeclared culture) are all living happily and virtually crime-free; the mainland is a different matter.

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48 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I'm still at a bit of a loss to understand how the turn-out (both sides) was so low given the high profile of the debate in the UK. I thought it'd be much higher, here in Greekland it was 58.7% which puts us to shame as a nation really; single biggest decision with screaming headlines (referendum aside) in decades and only 37% of people could be arsed to vote, pretty dismal and depressing that.

Shows a lot to me, and nothing good. Extreme views and dedication to sides without understanding their own, let alone the other side. 

Protest votes are proving to be even more destructive than ever

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16 hours ago, MikeO said:

I'm still at a bit of a loss to understand how the turn-out (both sides) was so low given the high profile of the debate in the UK. I thought it'd be much higher, here in Greekland it was 58.7% which puts us to shame as a nation really; single biggest decision with screaming headlines (referendum aside) in decades and only 37% of people could be arsed to vote, pretty dismal and depressing that.

Greece has compulsory voting.  58.7% shows the respect the Greeks have for the law 😉

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2 hours ago, holystove said:

Greece has compulsory voting.  58.7% shows the respect the Greeks have for the law 😉

😁 Didn't know the first bit, knew the second.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48515505?ns_source=facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=news_central&ns_campaign=bbc_daily_politics_and_sunday_politics&fbclid=IwAR1UfN-txccwj-Sc70oEA7fqi1_fffo1i-B5dm1r3BB_yW7n5f2BxD4q0ew

The Change UK (formerly known as Indepent Group) have lost half their members already. Wonder how many will try and worm back into a bigger a party. 

 

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18 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Should just have joined the LibDems in the first place. It was well meaning but doomed from the start.

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Should just have joined the LibDems in the first place. It was well meaning but doomed from the start.

For some maybe, don't know enough about them all but Chuka was just about himself. Career Politician who hopefully won't find a new home. 

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17 hours ago, Matt said:

Found a documentary to describe British democracy 

https://youtu.be/EOEMRXI3sRs

Not as funny as you'd think, centuries of "democracy" and we've come to this!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48541352

'Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd - who is not running - also condemned the proposal, saying: "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings."'

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9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not as funny as you'd think, centuries of "democracy" and we've come to this!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48541352

'Work and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd - who is not running - also condemned the proposal, saying: "I think it's outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings."'

That it’s even been considered is terrifying. Also shows how the Tory’s are determined to move to a dictatorship style government 

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Brexit party get 29% of the vote in the Peterborough by-election (where the referendum was 61% for leave) and Labour just about hold on. Think that really just confirms the protest element of the EU election.

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47 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Brexit party get 29% of the vote in the Peterborough by-election (where the referendum was 61% for leave) and Labour just about hold on. Think that really just confirms the protest element of the EU election.

Slightly confused by this, Mike. In Peterborough, they get 29% on a 48.4% turnout. In the European elections, they got 30.5% on a 37% turnout. Statistically, they did better in Peterborough. I am sure you're arguing that the vote to leave has fallen away in Peterborough, which may or may not be true. It must then also be said that the vote to overturn Brexit via the Lib Dems has also eroded (surely a protest vote for Remain in the EU election), so I'm not sure what definitive conclusions can be drawn, other than the Tories are in disarray (hurray), Labour are in disarray (as usual) and Brexit is nowhere near being sorted.  

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2 hours ago, Formby said:

Slightly confused by this, Mike. In Peterborough, they get 29% on a 48.4% turnout. In the European elections, they got 30.5% on a 37% turnout. Statistically, they did better in Peterborough. I am sure you're arguing that the vote to leave has fallen away in Peterborough, which may or may not be true. It must then also be said that the vote to overturn Brexit via the Lib Dems has also eroded (surely a protest vote for Remain in the EU election), so I'm not sure what definitive conclusions can be drawn, other than the Tories are in disarray (hurray), Labour are in disarray (as usual) and Brexit is nowhere near being sorted.  

I wasn't referencing the European election results there, I was comparing the by-election result against the referendum result which I believe showed the EU Brexit party win for what it was, a protest vote. I'm not arguing that the leave feeling has fallen away at all but just that people won't vote for a single issue party at a GE so further backing my thought that the earlier extrapolation of the EU vote giving Brexit a huge majority if the EU vote was applied to a GE was nonsense.

I'm sure the good folks of Peterborough still hold the same view on the EU but I think it's worth noting that the Lib Dems, while still coming fourth, actually quadrupled their share of the vote (compared to the last GE) so I don't see that as indicative of a party whose support has been "eroded". If that was repeated nationwide it would surely show a huge amount of support for their position I'd have thought.

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3 hours ago, MikeO said:

I wasn't referencing the European election results there, I was comparing the by-election result against the referendum result which I believe showed the EU Brexit party win for what it was, a protest vote. I'm not arguing that the leave feeling has fallen away at all but just that people won't vote for a single issue party at a GE so further backing my thought that the earlier extrapolation of the EU vote giving Brexit a huge majority if the EU vote was applied to a GE was nonsense.

I'm sure the good folks of Peterborough still hold the same view on the EU but I think it's worth noting that the Lib Dems, while still coming fourth, actually quadrupled their share of the vote (compared to the last GE) so I don't see that as indicative of a party whose support has been "eroded". If that was repeated nationwide it would surely show a huge amount of support for their position I'd have thought.

Quadrupling their share of the vote is splendid - and good luck to them - but you have to feel it was due to them becoming, in effect,  a single issue party as well (cancelling Brexit), which you yourself rightly said will not do as well in a GE. They certainly did not do as well in Peterborough as they did in the European elections, which rather backs up the point.  

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4 minutes ago, Formby said:

Quadrupling their share of the vote is splendid - and good luck to them - but you have to feel it was due to them becoming, in effect,  a single issue party as well (cancelling Brexit), which you yourself rightly said will not do as well in a GE. They certainly did not do as well in Peterborough as they did in the European elections, which rather backs up the point.  

Wouldn't disagree with that, a balanced argument for sure; just don't agree that their support was "eroded" personally, but then I'm coming from a biased perspective (aren't we all?).

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Wouldn't disagree with that, a balanced argument for sure; just don't agree that their support was "eroded" personally, but then I'm coming from a biased perspective (aren't we all?).

There’s a clear difference between biased and informed...

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1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Depends on who you're talking to Matt.

Not really, but I get what you mean. Bias is deliberate, ignorance not necessarily so

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7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not really, but I get what you mean. Bias is deliberate, ignorance not necessarily so

I'm happy to be in the "biased" camp because my opinion isn'tt based on the minutia of financial gain or loss or influence, I don't overly care about that. I just want the World to have less borders because we're all small people in a tiny corner of space who will be around (human race that is) for a blink of an eye in universal terms so dividing ourselves up is insane for me. We are (maybe) the only carbon based life forms in a virtually infinite space so why all this nonsense? 

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12 hours ago, Matt said:

Bias is deliberate, ignorance not necessarily so

You can have unconscious bias, too! It's not always deliberate (just as you can have wilful ignorance). 

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12 hours ago, MikeO said:

We are (maybe) the only carbon based life forms in a virtually infinite space so why all this nonsense? 

I'll try that with the kids!

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On 07/06/2019 at 17:40, pete0 said:

Be ironic if the European courts overrule the decision. (assuming that you can take this sort of issue to the EU courts) 

Not something you can take to the European Court of Justice.

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7 hours ago, holystove said:

Not something you can take to the European Court of Justice.

Thanks Holystove. 

Hopefully the powers that be over here will reverse the decision. 

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

Was in a really small bar/restaurant in the hills here yesterday, well off the tourist track and a place that you need someone to tell you about otherwise you'd never find it, one of my favourite spots with stunning views from a terrace built on stilts. Only three tables occupied and one of them consisted of four Brits (Yorkshire I'd say from the accent) being absolutely obnoxious at a very loud volume. Fully understand people being pro-Brexit but these were out and out racist (Albanians and Romanians their particular target) and ignorant ("...did we have a referendum before we joined?" None of them knew). Now my wife has a fierce temper on her at times (and is the daughter of two refugees) and I was just sat there thinking, "...please don't say anything Deb". We had our drink and left, if they'd have mentioned Farage I would have asked them, very politely to shut the f'ck up as we're on holiday and don't need to hear this xenophobia. Was actually amazed my wife managed to hold her tongue, not like her:lol:.

Not for a mo suggesting they're representative of all leavers so please don't take it that way, but they were frankly, in a word, scum.

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