Brexit...

[MikeO]

 

Pity he didn't clarify it at the time.

 

Yup, he could've made it crystal clear if he'd written it on the side of a bus maybe, then everyone would've known it was set in stone. Might even have won him the election before he said he didn't really mean it .

[johnh]

The thing is, he's shot himself in the foot. If he's still about at the next general election, whatever he promises, no one will believe it.

[MikeO]

The thing is, he's shot himself in the foot. If he's still about at the next general election, whatever he promises, no one will believe it.

 

Nobody in their right mind believes anything any political party says in an election campaign though do they? The Brexit bus is just the biggest and most shameful example; most of the other broken promises can be wormed around in politic-speak by all parties, the bus is the elephant in the room.

[pete0]

The thing is, he's shot himself in the foot. If he's still about at the next general election, whatever he promises, no one will believe it.

I don't know anyone who was under that assumption. I have student debt and thought what would happen to current student debt. The statement was abolishing student fees, not writing off all student debt.

 

Basically a 9% tax on young people, with wages kept low enough that it'll take 30 years to pay off with all the interest. Interest that is illegally charged by the lying bastards. Well done Britain, you're Great.

[pete0]

 

Nobody in their right mind believes anything any political party says in an election campaign though do they? The Brexit bus is just the biggest and most shameful example; most of the other broken promises can be wormed around in politic-speak by all parties, the bus is the elephant in the room.

Broken promises can be forgiven. Brexit bus was an outright lie and those involved should be punished/exiled.

[nyblue23]

Wow 76b pounds in student debt seems so small compared to the 1.2 trillion dollars owed over here.

[johnh]

 

Nobody in their right mind believes anything any political party says in an election campaign though do they? The Brexit bus is just the biggest and most shameful example; most of the other broken promises can be wormed around in politic-speak by all parties, the bus is the elephant in the room.

 

Why is it any different to cancelling student debt? Corbyn is on record as saying he didn't know how much it would cost to cancel it (100 billion) which is why he reneged.

[Bailey]

 

Intangible that, don't recall it being on the side of a bus.

It was said plenty of times in the debates and QT as well as in the papers. Whether it is or isn't plastered on the side of the bus doesn't make a difference.

[MikeO]

 

Why is it any different to cancelling student debt? Corbyn is on record as saying he didn't know how much it would cost to cancel it (100 billion) which is why he reneged.

 

He never said that they would though, that's the difference pure and simple. He said he'd "deal with it" which is totally different from a concrete promise on a bus.

[MikeO]

It was said plenty of times in the debates and QT as well as in the papers. Whether it is or isn't plastered on the side of the bus doesn't make a difference.

 

It was an opinion about a potential future situation, yet to be tested. So conjecture, no need to put it on a bus.

 

Might prove to be true, might not. The Brexit bus was a bare faced lie and I fail to see how anyone can defend it or compare it to any other scenario.

[Bailey]

 

He never said that they would though, that's the difference pure and simple. He said he'd "deal with it" which is totally different from a concrete promise on a bus.

He says more than deal with it but doesn't go as far as categorically saying he will write it off. Typical politican talk tbh.

 

He also talks about lengthening the amount of time to repay the student debt which shows that he doesn't know how the student debt works!

[Bailey]

 

It was an opinion about a potential future situation, yet to be tested. So conjecture, no need to put it on a bus.

 

Might prove to be true, might not. The Brexit bus was a bare faced lie and I fail to see how anyone can defend it or compare it to any other scenario.

In that case so was bus. Did anyone promise the money? Did anyone involved with the bus have the power to make that decision. It was their opinion that x amount could be spent on the NHS.

 

It's all BS but different flavoUrs.

[pete0]

In that case so was bus. Did anyone promise the money? Did anyone involved with the bus have the power to make that decision. It was their opinion that x amount could be spent on the NHS.

 

It's all BS but different flavoUrs.

Jeremy Hunt the secretary of state for health.

[MikeO]

In that case so was bus. Did anyone promise the money? Did anyone involved with the bus have the power to make that decision. It was their opinion that x amount could be spent on the NHS.

 

It's all BS but different flavoUrs.

 

 

(imo)

[Palfy]

In that case so was bus. Did anyone promise the money? Did anyone involved with the bus have the power to make that decision. It was their opinion that x amount could be spent on the NHS.

It's all BS but different flavoUrs.

Bailey when you've finished digging your hole could I borrow your shovel please. Lol

[johnh]

 

He never said that they would though, that's the difference pure and simple. He said he'd "deal with it" which is totally different from a concrete promise on a bus.

 

Semantics. Presumably, if the outstanding debt had been say, 25 billion, Corbyn would have gone ahead (if he hadn't lost the election). So the intent was there. The fact that he was totally incompetent and didn't even bother to find out the true cost before he made his promise is irrelevant.

[Matt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40922177

 

But Brexit means Brexit

[MikeO]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40922177

 

But Brexit means Brexit

 

Brexitabit?

[Bailey]

 

 

(imo)

Haha a lie is a lie no matter how it was told.

[Bailey]

Bailey when you've finished digging your hole could I borrow your shovel please. Lol

Haha I know, but I'm being a dick for a reason because factually I'm right and it's why politicians can say these things and get away with it.

[pete0]

Haha I know, but I'm being a dick for a reason because factually I'm right and it's why politicians can say these things and get away with it.

He said he'd look into it. I don't see how you can manipulate that into him being a liar.

 

I have student debt and was under no assumption that it would be written off. There was nothing of substance stated. At best I hoped the interest would be stopped as it shouldn't have been charged in the first place.

[Bailey]

He said he'd look into it. I don't see how you can manipulate that into him being a liar.

 

I have student debt and was under no assumption that it would be written off. There was nothing of substance stated. At best I hoped the interest would be stopped as it shouldn't have been charged in the first place.

That was mainly aimed at the Brexit stuff. I didn't believe the Brexit stuff and was under no assumption what they said would happen.

 

The full Corbyn quotes are actually much bigger than just deal. I'll deal with it is just the last line.

 

Either was McDonnell has confirmed that it is only an ambition now. Ie never going to happen.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Bailey

[holystove]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40922177

But Brexit means Brexit

I would be greatly surprised if the other 27 member states went along with this. It seems the UK wants to be in *a* customs union but not in *the* customs union.

 

If you don't want custom checks, join the customs union. If you dont want tariffs, join the single market. It's not complicated.

 

5 months after article 50, still in 'cake and eat it' territory.

[pete0]

That was mainly aimed at the Brexit stuff. I didn't believe the Brexit stuff and was under no assumption what they said would happen.

 

The full Corbyn quotes are actually much bigger than just deal. I'll deal with it is just the last line.

 

Either was McDonnell has confirmed that it is only an ambition now. Ie never going to happen.

Sorry thought you meant the student loan stuff.

 

What did Corbyn lie about?

[holystove]

on the customs union position paper, I thought this post was insightful : http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08/15/the-government-s-customs-union-plan-is-an-absolute-dog-s-bre

 

I don't know enough about Northern Ireland, Good Friday Agreement, CTA, etc to fully understand the UK position paper on Northern Ireland but it is odd that there wont be any border controls at the only landborder the UK has. Especially after a referendum that was mostly about taking back control (of borders).

Also, just because the UK doesn't think there is a need to control the Ireland - NI border, doesn't mean Ireland (/ EU) doesn't want to control its external border.

[holystove]

what is happening to James Chapman? Is this being covered in your national media?

 

seems like he is losing his mind.

[MikeO]

what is happening to James Chapman? Is this being covered in your national media?

 

seems like he is losing his mind.

 

I'd not seen it but it's quite funny.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-aide-launch-new-political-party-reverse-brexit-second-referendum-james-chapman-the-a7895411.html

 

He's like the loony party except there's some sanity in his madness, sounds like my kind of guy; I'm in .

[Matt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40957301

 

But Brexit means Brexit!

 

I've got to give credit to the Tories, this is the greatest hoodwink of the people I've seen in British politics.

[holystove]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40957301

 

But Brexit means Brexit!

 

I've got to give credit to the Tories, this is the greatest hoodwink of the people I've seen in British politics.

 

You're right, but the question not being asked is whether the other 27 countries in the EU will agree to all this. It's been more than a year since the referendum, almost half a year since article 50 and the UK has basically only been negotiating amongst themselves (in cabinet, in tabloids, etc).

 

 

"But what's interesting is that no-one on the UK side really seems to be thinking about the EU at all. After all, our official position on customs is to have "a" customs union, not "the" customs union. Our position on free movement is to basically maintain it while withdrawing from the system. These distinctions are absurd, but they satisfy the political agendas of those who promise them. In other words, they are designed for domestic consumption.

This has been the emotional instinct of the Brexit debate since the start of the campaign. It has been defined by us saying I WANT I WANT I WANT without any real sense that there are other countries with their own interests. It's been there from Boris Johnson's early promises that you could get rid of free movement and yet stay in the single market to the way tabloids constantly scream about open borders and then get terribly upset when British tourists face queues in foreign airports.

This has been a hermetically-sealed, inward-looking debate."

[holystove]

Now that talks seem to have stalled somewhat, what is the public mood in Britain?     Tendency towards "soft" brexit (or Remain as I would call such a thing) or is anti-EU sentiment growing stronger as the EU seems more intransigent, ....or are people just plain tired of it all?