johnh Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 A mixture of points 2 and 3. Barnier needs to think before his lips move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 People have just become more entrenched in their opinion. It's become tiresome. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I would like to think that I am fairly open minded on Brexit. Yes I voted to leave but that being said I always held certain views and if anyone had addressed those while we stayed in the EU I would have voted to remain. Those views have never even been mentioned by the politicians on either side, so I will continue to be a Brexiteer. Sorry folks but that is how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Louis said: People have just become more entrenched in their opinion. It's become tiresome. I agree, out voters predominantly want us to "walk away" from what I see/hear, just getting more anti and antsy. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 3 hours ago, holystove said: Now that talks seem to have stalled somewhat, what is the public mood in Britain? Tendency towards "soft" brexit (or Remain as I would call such a thing) or is anti-EU sentiment growing stronger as the EU seems more intransigent, ....or are people just plain tired of it all? that implies there was any kind of progress being made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I would ask 3 questions do we really want to be a member of group that wants to crucify us for daring to leave, they could work with us and make it good for both sides. Also this is the first vote we have had on it since 1973 its not a democracy. Why wont they give all the other country's a vote, i think they know the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, seve said: I would ask 3 questions do we really want to be a member of group that wants to crucify us for daring to leave, they could work with us and make it good for both sides. No, I don't see why they would, just like I wouldn't give Barkley a nice easy move away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 20 minutes ago, seve said: I would ask 3 questions do we really want to be a member of group that wants to crucify us for daring to leave, they could work with us and make it good for both sides. Also this is the first vote we have had on it since 1973 its not a democracy. Why wont they give all the other country's a vote, i think they know the answer. That's two questions, what's the other one? But of those two from my perspective then yes, I'd rather the vote had gone the other way (no surprise there). Second. "Why won't they give other countries a vote?" It's not their place to; if any other country wanted a vote they're as free to have one as we were. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, MikeO said: That's two questions, what's the other one? But of those two from my perspective then yes, I'd rather the vote had gone the other way (no surprise there). Second. "Why won't they give other countries a vote?" It's not their place to; if any other country wanted a vote they're as free to have one as we were. I meant why dont there own countries give them a vote? because they know the answer. If the rest of Europe was confident of winning a vote they would let them have one,France, Spain, Italy, even Germany, wont give there people a chance to vote. Despite there people asking for one. 30 40 years without a vote is not a democracy, we were not free to have a vote, we had to wait a long time, lobby mps for a long time and eventually only one because Cameron would not have got elected if he did not put it in his manifesto, did we get one. I am not sure if we are better in or out only time will tell, but i am sure we and other counties should have a regular vote on it. Edited September 4, 2017 by seve incomplete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, seve said: I meant why dont there own countries give them a vote? 30 40 years without a vote is not a democracy, Because there's no pressure from the population to ask for a vote because they know they're better off in, that's why countries have been queuing up to join for decades. It's why what started as six countries is now twenty-eight (soon to be twenty-seven). Do you want us to have a vote every five years on whether we should stay in NATO or the UN? pete0, nyblue23 and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, MikeO said: Because there's no pressure from the population to ask for a vote because they know they're better off in, that's why countries have been queuing up to join for decades. It's why what started as six countries is now twenty-eight (soon to be twenty-seven). Do you want us to have a vote every five years on whether we should stay in NATO or the UN? All the countries who have been queuing up to join are net receivers of EU investment quell surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, johnh said: All the countries who have been queuing up to join are net receivers of EU investment quell surprise. Your French needs work John. Anyway, making the World a fairer place one step at a time? Screw that, we're alright Jack. Well we might be, maybe, one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 It's always a bad idea to give people freedom to make important political decisions. This is something that requires proper education or at least common sense about the likely consequences. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, MikeO said: Because there's no pressure from the population to ask for a vote because they know they're better off in, that's why countries have been queuing up to join for decades. It's why what started as six countries is now twenty-eight (soon to be twenty-seven). Do you want us to have a vote every five years on whether we should stay in NATO or the UN? There is every pressure in these countries for a vote just look at lapen in France a huge following and call for a vote but they dont get it, wether you like her or not and i dont they still have a right to vote. I live in Spain for 6 months a year they would love one, the eu is a started for trade only we have never had a vote on any of the changes made in 50years. So im at a disadvantage if we leave but it can not carry on under its current state, changing laws without any challenges. As regards all the other countries that have joined they are much better off we are not, us and Germany are the only net contributors as im sure you know. All the other countries that joined all failed the financial terms to join but were still allowed to join again no vote to ask if its ok Not i dont want a vote every five years but we should have one at least every 10 years, NATO was set up for something completely different and irrelevant to this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Just now, Haiku said: It's always a bad idea to give people freedom to make important political decisions. This is something that requires proper education or at least common sense about the likely consequences. Agree completely, we have general elections to empower these people to make decisions for us; when they abdicate those responsibilities we realise we voted for the wrong people in the first place. In this instance we realise to late and we're left with religious bigots holding power over the country. It's been a clusterfuck of the highest order from the start and shows no sign of being anything else anytime soon. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 I don't hold out much hope of getting a deal that works for us, especially with Davis leading the negotiations, I wouldn't let him negotiate a price on a second hand car, surely there's better options than that twat, Ross Barkley seems to be a better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Palfy said: I don't hold out much hope of getting a deal that works for us, especially with Davis leading the negotiations, I wouldn't let him negotiate a price on a second hand car, surely there's better options than that twat, Ross Barkley seems to be a better option. Can Davis play at 10 though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, MikeO said: Your French needs work John. Anyway, making the World a fairer place one step at a time? Screw that, we're alright Jack. Well we might be, maybe, one day. Well, Mike, you used them as the example. It's a bit like boasting about having the biggest crowd at a match when you let everyone in for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, johnh said: Well, Mike, you used them as the example. It's a bit like boasting about having the biggest crowd at a match when you let everyone in for free. I didn't use anyone as an example. Je ne comprend pas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, johnh said: Well, Mike, you used them as the example. It's a bit like boasting about having the biggest crowd at a match when you let everyone in for free. Let them in for free then charge them £12.50 for a bovril and £25.00 for a pie, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Palfy said: Let them in for free then charge them £12.50 for a bovril and £25.00 for a pie, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 7 hours ago, holystove said: Now that talks seem to have stalled somewhat, what is the public mood in Britain? Tendency towards "soft" brexit (or Remain as I would call such a thing) or is anti-EU sentiment growing stronger as the EU seems more intransigent, ....or are people just plain tired of it all? I think a lot of people are becoming more apathetic towards it. They need to stop trying to get one up on each other in the press and just get on with it. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 4 hours ago, seve said: I would ask 3 questions do we really want to be a member of group that wants to crucify us for daring to leave, they could work with us and make it good for both sides. Also this is the first vote we have had on it since 1973 its not a democracy. Why wont they give all the other country's a vote, i think they know the answer. No I don't This is the primary reason I voted to leave. Not their place to do so. Every government could do this, but they won't as the politicians do not want to upset the apple cart especially is it is filling their troughs which the all have their snouts in. Brexit was a mistake by Cameron, as it would no have happened if he had known what the result would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 22 minutes ago, rubecula said: Brexit was a mistake by Cameron, as it would no have happened if he had known what the result would be. Equally it wouldn't have happened had the "out" guys from the major parties realised that they might win. They campaigned it on it "knowing" it'd give them popular support while being certain they'd lose so could say, "we did our best." As soon as they won they panicked and jumped ship because they had zero plan in place. And they still haven't. We have a "remain" PM kept in place by a bunch of bigots asking her brain dead negotiating team to get us a deal while we don't have a leg to stand on and the country is going down the toilet. How can anyone support a legislation kept in power by the party started by Ian Paisley? We're nearly as laughable as the US under Trump. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, MikeO said: Equally it wouldn't have happened had the "out" guys from the major parties realised that they might win. They campaigned it on it "knowing" it'd give them popular support while being certain they'd lose so could say, "we did our best." As soon as they won they panicked and jumped ship because they had zero plan in place. And they still haven't. We have a "remain" PM kept in place by a bunch of bigots asking her brain dead negotiating team to get us a deal while we don't have a leg to stand on and the country is going down the toilet. How can anyone support a legislation kept in power but the party started by Ian Paisley? We're nearly as laughable as the US under Trump. Mike mate I agree with all that. I still think we will be better off outside the EU. (My opinion only) but I do not think our politicians are worth a carrot, and we are in a situation where racism is taking the forefront to many because of their shitty little fight for point to prove how crap life will be outside of Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, rubecula said: Mike mate I agree with all that. I still think we will be better off outside the EU. (My opinion only) but I do not think our politicians are worth a carrot, and we are in a situation where racism is taking the forefront to many because of their shitty little fight for point to prove how crap life will be outside of Europe. This is what I still don't get (not just you, Rubes. Pretty much all Leave voters I know think this). Despite absolute proof the the Tories (well, nearly all of our politicians really) couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel but will flat out lie to peoples faces to tell them it'll be the best orgy ever, people still think that the country would be better off without the EU and just let our elected officials get on with it. It's baffling to me. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, rubecula said: Mike mate I agree with all that. I still think we will be better off outside the EU. (My opinion only) but I do not think our politicians are worth a carrot, and we are in a situation where racism is taking the forefront to many because of their shitty little fight for point to prove how crap life will be outside of Europe. I have absolutely no problem with people believing that; I'll debate it with them til Domesday (probably a short debate, see NK/Trump) but respect all opinions however misguided they may be. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Matt said: This is what I still don't get (not just you, Rubes. Pretty much all Leave voters I know think this). Despite absolute proof the the Tories (well, nearly all of our politicians really) couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel but will flat out lie to peoples faces to tell them it'll be the best orgy ever, people still think that the country would be better off without the EU and just let our elected officials get on with it. It's baffling to me. For me (I can only speak for myself) the politicians can be voted out if the piss people off or fuck things up. With the EU we are stuck with the appointed officials like Russians were with Stalin. and no I am not comparing Juncker with Stalin, just the processes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Matt said: This is what I still don't get (not just you, Rubes. Pretty much all Leave voters I know think this). Despite absolute proof the the Tories (well, nearly all of our politicians really) couldn't organize an orgy in a brothel but will flat out lie to peoples faces to tell them it'll be the best orgy ever, people still think that the country would be better off without the EU and just let our elected officials get on with it. It's baffling to me. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-euro-exchange-rate-sterling-september-brexit-effect-eu-uk-leave-a7927976.html%3famp Only have to look at the euro rates. The media had a field day when we were strong against the dollar when it was 2:1. The shit should be hitting the fan with the currency in the piss pot atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, rubecula said: For me (I can only speak for myself) the politicians can be voted out if the piss people off or fuck things up. With the EU we are stuck with the appointed officials like Russians were with Stalin. and no I am not comparing Juncker with Stalin, just the processes. And if I remember correctly, the people we vote into power then vote on the EU members so there is absolutely a way the people can change the appointed officials; choose competent leaders to do so. Hard to do when you're stuck with the selection presented, but that's UK politics fault, not the EUs... edit: Maybe @holystove can clarify that bit again. I've grown so frustrated with politics and even the pills I've got at the moment don't work against it and I've forgotten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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