MikeO Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 35 minutes ago, pete0 said: LBC (@LBC) Tweeted: Michael Gove says Britain will be able to export more pigs’ ears after Brexit… @mrjamesob’s reaction is priceless https://t.co/NzroFBkKKR https://t.co/iaVOXfV2dD Just googled to check the veracity of that and even the Daily Mail, on reporting it, has put at the bottom... "Sorry we are not currently accepting comments on this article." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 Incidentally; pre referendum the vote at the top of the page had a fairly hefty advantage for "leave". Since then people have been voting (our poll is only advisory so can change if the public attitude and political opinion does unlike the other one; oh wait a minute) and now "remoan" is only one vote behind. Seems to me people are realising the hole we've dug ourselves into; almost certainly too late unfortunately. pete0, Chach and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 On 10/1/2017 at 06:59, Palfy said: Couldn't agree more if only the millions who fell for his lies last time had the courage to stand up and say I've been mislead and want to remain, because now I can see that what was said by the leaders of the leave campaign was untrue, and we can see that the damage caused by us leaving will continue, and will destroy the financial security of our children and grandchildren, and plunge millions more below the poverty line. This is not a forgone conclusion if people stand up to be counted and the Labour party gives them the vehicle to change their minds, we can rebuild our future in the E.U and get rid of the career MPs like Johnson, Gove and the far right extremists of the Tory party who masterminded this, and are still pulling the strings to make sure that we have Brexit that reflects there far right nationalistic views, and dam the cost to those who can least afford it. Palfy, the flaw in your argument is that the millions who fell 'for his lies' were far outnumbered by those who voted remain because of the lies of 'Project Fear'. Remain had all the big guns behind it. The Government in the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, The Bank of England and with free publicity from the national broadcaster, the BBC. I reckon that, without project fear, the vote would have been 60/40 to leave. After Juncker's speech I can't believe that anyone wants to remain in the EU. A dictatorship in waiting. Gorbachov (sp) summed it up. He said that the West had taken three quarters of a century to get rid of the Soviet Union and they now want to replace it with another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 32 minutes ago, johnh said: Palfy, the flaw in your argument is that the millions who fell 'for his lies' were far outnumbered by those who voted remain because of the lies of 'Project Fear'. Remain had all the big guns behind it. The Government in the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, The Bank of England and with free publicity from the national broadcaster, the BBC. I reckon that, without project fear, the vote would have been 60/40 to leave. After Juncker's speech I can't believe that anyone wants to remain in the EU. A dictatorship in waiting. Gorbachov (sp) summed it up. He said that the West had taken three quarters of a century to get rid of the Soviet Union and they now want to replace it with another. I'm conivinced it would've been a landslide to remain, because we'd have facts to back up common sense pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 3, 2017 Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 What did "project fear" do/say that was remotely comparable to the bus slogan? I think it's a good and honest prediction of what the consequences of leaving would be; they were quite right to tell people to be fearful. I just wish they'd put it across more clearly. Remain had, "free publicity from the national broadcaster"? I don't actually agree with that for a moment but it's unarguable that Brexit had free propaganda from the vast majority of the national press (for that read a few press barons looking after their own interests). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 With the Donald pushing fast forward on the end of US world leadership I can't imagine there would have been a more fortuitous time to be at the head of the EU, the increase in power and influence will be exponential. Ah well, at least the NHS will be £350 million per week better off...oh wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 On 30-9-2017 at 23:24, MikeO said: Boris been taking lessons from Trump (he'd be an equally embarrassing PM)... Mr Johnson said: "The crucial thing I want to get over to S*n readers about Brexit is that it is going to be great and we need to believe in ourselves and believe we can do it. It is unstoppable." The man is slime; he supported Brexit purely to enhance his personal prospects; if he thought he'd have a better career supporting remain he would've done. Reprehensible twat playing the "lovable buffoon" in public while totally calculating in private. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41441444 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-politics-libya/britains-boris-johnson-jokes-about-dead-bodies-in-libya-idUSKCN1C82RF If I were British, this comment would be the final straw .. completely unacceptable. This is on par with saying Las Vegas will once again be a tourist destination, "the only thing they've got to do is clear the dead bodies away and then we will be there".. except he wouldn't say it about dead white people. If this is the "roaring lion" as todays jingoistic frontpage from the Daily Express Telegraph puts it, then it's time to put it down. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 14 hours ago, MikeO said: Incidentally; pre referendum the vote at the top of the page had a fairly hefty advantage for "leave". Since then people have been voting (our poll is only advisory so can change if the public attitude and political opinion does unlike the other one; oh wait a minute) and now "remoan" is only one vote behind. Seems to me people are realising the hole we've dug ourselves into; almost certainly too late unfortunately. I don't think it's too late MikeO and you can tell by how much Leavers are on the offensive. Fox, Redwood, Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg are all being very aggressive, and talk of "No Deal" is back on the table..look at john's post about dictatorships and soviet union.. Leavers can feel it slipping away. (By the way, the EU regulation does not say pigs need to be tagged in their ears (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pig-keepers-identify-animals-before-moving-them). Gove will need to find other benefits of Brexit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, holystove said: I don't think it's too late MikeO and you can tell by how much Leavers are on the offensive. Fox, Redwood, Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg are all being very aggressive, and talk of "No Deal" is back on the table..look at john's post about dictatorships and soviet union.. Leavers can feel it slipping away. (By the way, the EU regulation does not say pigs need to be tagged in their ears (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pig-keepers-identify-animals-before-moving-them). Gove will need to find other benefits of Brexit.) Should ask Cameron about the pigs ears, he'll have had plenty of time to inspect them from close range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 We aren't leaving, it's all one big filthy lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 55 minutes ago, Bailey said: We aren't leaving, it's all one big filthy lie. Another one? I wish you were right but we've gone too far to (not) pull out now. In a parallel universe the government is saying, "Look we're sorry you were so mislead so we'll just do what we think is best for the country because that's why you elected us...". Sadly in our reality the self interest loonies have us painted into a corner so we have to suffer the consequences. The Gove "pig's ear" speech gaffe would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that him and his ilk that had made the real pig's ear decision reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, MikeO said: Another one? I wish you were right but we've gone too far to (not) pull out now. In a parallel universe the government is saying, "Look we're sorry you were so mislead so we'll just do what we think is best for the country because that's why you elected us...". Sadly in our reality the self interest loonies have us painted into a corner so we have to suffer the consequences. The Gove "pig's ear" speech gaffe would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that him and his ilk that had made the real pig's ear decision reality. Both sides bear that responsibility. Whether you agree or not the out vote gave people hope, maybe false hope, but it was still hope. Remainers painted a picture of negativity and fear. Just like Corbyn I'm the GE, hope always beats fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bailey said: Both sides bear that responsibility. Whether you agree or not the out vote gave people hope, maybe false hope, but it was still hope. Remainers painted a picture of negativity and fear. Just like Corbyn I'm the GE, hope always beats fear. I'll ask you the same as I did John yesterday. 23 hours ago, MikeO said: What did "project fear" do/say that was remotely comparable to the bus slogan? I think it's a good and honest prediction of what the consequences of leaving would be; they were quite right to tell people to be fearful. I just wish they'd put it across more clearly. Remain had, "free publicity from the national broadcaster"? I don't actually agree with that for a moment but it's unarguable that Brexit had free propaganda from the vast majority of the national press (for that read a few press barons looking after their own interests). Both sides don't bear the responsibility at all imo; one side lied through their teeth while the other side was complacent, huge difference. pete0 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Didn’t know where else to ask this, so I’ll ask it here. How did people here vote in the referendum on joining the Euro? The people got that one right, it’d have been a disaster. Closer and closer ties isn’t all it’s made out to be imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: How did people here vote in the referendum on joining the Euro? There's never been one Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, MikeO said: There's never been one Mark. couldve sworn there was but just read up on it and it was just something that would have to happen for it (us joining) to receive full approval. Still, us joining would’ve been a terrible decision. Something to thank Gordon Brown for! And does show that closer ties is t always a good thing. Would you have wanted to join? Do you want to join? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Would you have wanted to join? Do you want to join? How long is a piece of string? If I thought it was the right thing then I'd vote for it; I'd not keep the £ just for nostalgia if it was going to hold the country back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeO said: How long is a piece of string? If I thought it was the right thing then I'd vote for it; I'd not keep the £ just for nostalgia if it was going to hold the country back. It clearly would’ve been the wrong choice to join when it was first proposed, and it would be the wrong decision now. No nostalgia, couldn’t give a shit about that, just all about how bad using the Euro would’ve been. It did us good to keep some distance and I believe, in the long run, that distance and the furthering of it with Brexit will do us good too. Totally get that you, and a lot of people, are pro-EU and are worried but I do think we’ll be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: It clearly would’ve been the wrong choice to join when it was first proposed, and it would be the wrong decision now. Agree with that bit but not the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeO said: Agree with that bit but not the rest. Didn’t expect you to, mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, Romey 1878 said: Didn’t expect you to, mate Thinking about it again I do also agree with the , "we'll be OK" part; I'm sure we will. But we could've been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/10/04/555574457/britains-theresa-may-had-to-give-a-major-speech-it-didnt-go-well a comedy of errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, MikeO said: Thinking about it again I do also agree with the , "we'll be OK" part; I'm sure we will. But we could've been better. Only time will tell, I suppose. The only thing I know for sure is no one is going to get everything they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: Didn’t know where else to ask this, so I’ll ask it here. How did people here vote in the referendum on joining the Euro? The people got that one right, it’d have been a disaster. Closer and closer ties isn’t all it’s made out to be imo. Actually, imo, joining the euro would have been brilliant for Britain. In exactly the same way Germany has hugely benefited from it. Because the UK is a stronger economy than most eurozone economies, it would have been much more competitive using a currency the last 10 years that in regards to its own economy is undervalued, while at the same time if the EUR drops in value vs other currencies, it wouldn't hurt the UK much, as the vast vast majority of its trade is with the eurozone. This is exactly what the US and other criticize Germany for. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, holystove said: Actually, imo, joining the euro would have been brilliant for Britain. In exactly the same way Germany has hugely benefited from it. Because the UK is a stronger economy than most eurozone economies, it would have been much more competitive using a currency the last 10 years that in regards to its own economy is undervalued, while at the same time if the EUR drops in value vs other currencies, it wouldn't hurt the UK much, as the vast vast majority of its trade is with the eurozone. This is exactly what the US and other criticize Germany for. And a common complaint from Leave voters holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 14 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: couldve sworn there was but just read up on it and it was just something that would have to happen for it (us joining) to receive full approval. Still, us joining would’ve been a terrible decision. Something to thank Gordon Brown for! And does show that closer ties is t always a good thing. Would you have wanted to join? Do you want to join? I agree that we have Gordon Brown to thank for keeping us out of the euro. However, his decision wasn't based on financial/economic acumen, it was solely because Tony Blair was desperate for us to join and Brown wanted to shaft him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I'd not have wanted to join the euro unless every other country agreed too as well. You'd imagine our government would have done more to protect the value of the pound though. Our economy is making more money than ever but thanks to the government wages are artificially low (they happily lowered workers rights to get over the recession but haven't reversed or encouraged companies who are now making more profit than before the recession hit to make good), so there is little extra spending in the UK, wages are flat but mortgages are so high people would lose their houses if the back upped the interest rates. To top it off the treacle down bullshit doesn't work as the majority of profits go to CEOs and pension schemes around the globe. What's the point in leaving Europe when they already own all our businesses. Should be looking at nationalising the necessities and blocking foreign firms from owning majority stakes in businesses. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, pete0 said: What's the point in leaving Europe when they already own all our businesses. Should be looking at nationalising the necessities and blocking foreign firms from owning majority stakes in businesses. What and undo what dear maggy did, Theirs a novel idea. MikeO and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 On Wednesday, October 04, 2017 at 20:33, MikeO said: I'll ask you the same as I did John yesterday. Both sides don't bear the responsibility at all imo; one side lied through their teeth while the other side was complacent, huge difference. Thats your perspective. IMO Remain lied equally as much. If you watch QT it was like the world was going to end if we left the EU. The remain campaign was pathetic, it should have easily won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Bailey said: IMO Remain lied equally as much Examples as blatant as the bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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